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  #1  
Old 03-14-10, 11:49 PM
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As crazy as it sounds...

If/when Tony Parker comes back he should come off the bench....

This way he will be with the second unit...he could look to score more..

I like this lineup right now..they play well together and Hill and Gino passing well to everyone has helped alot instead of a shot first PG...

I am not saying we are better with TP on the bench but to ease him back in I think the Spurs should go this route and not just throw him right into the fire come playoff time..
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  #2  
Old 03-14-10, 11:55 PM
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I think this was BillSmith's #3 suggestion (behind #1, trading Parker for Jose Calderon and a Matt Bonner Raptors replica jersey and #2 deporting Parker to France).

I actuall do think this is not a bad idea.
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  #3  
Old 03-15-10, 01:07 AM
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Honestly I think you have to start the best players and stop trying to manipulate the matchups etc..I think Manu has had more to do with the winning than Parker not being in the line up....I mean they were on a 4 game win streak BEFORE Parker went down
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  #4  
Old 03-15-10, 01:10 AM
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They are just playing well against some really crappy teams recently. I'll go with this "TP come off the bench" idea if they also looks this good against teams like Lakers, Magic and Cavs.
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  #5  
Old 03-15-10, 01:24 AM
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I think certain players just flow better together.

RJ clearly plays better when he has an elite passer like Manu feeding him the ball. Finding guys in motion is just not Parker's strength. He is a drive and kick/pick and roll point guard. He is fantastic at that, but he will never have the court vision of Kidd/Paul/Nash, which is what RJ needs.


TP plays best surrounded by shooters. Because he's not much of a theat to hit from outside, the lane will be packed when he's in. With the lane packed, teams are automatically set to defend against cutters. So playing TP and expecting RJ to cut for a pass to the rim isn't going to happen because defenses are already set for that. Consequently, you highlight TP's strengths by playing him with shooters, not to mention other guys who can haul down the floor and complement his fast break speed.

I think in terms of COMPARATIVE strength. It is best for the team for TP and Manu to each lead the team when the other is out during non-crunch time, and play together only part of that time.

Then in the 4th qtr crunch time you throw them together.

The question isn't whether TP and Manu are the best backcourt combination (not sure with Hill's emergence if this is even true anymore). The reason is they can't play all 48 minutes. So the real issue is TP plus certain bench guys vs. Manu with certain bench guys vs. bench guys by themselves. The result is that while TP/Manu is probably better than alternatives, Hill/Manu followed by TP/shooters is probably better than TP/Manu followed by just bench.

And by shooters at this point it doesn't necessarily include Mason given how well Hill has shot. He could play with TP and then Manu, giving us a 3 guard rotation. Hill is young. He can still handle it.
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  #6  
Old 03-15-10, 01:28 AM
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One thing I'm concerned about is that Hill being asked to start at PG plus being our defensive stopper has put him in foul trouble a lot lately.
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  #7  
Old 03-15-10, 02:25 AM
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I think this will happen but mainly to manage TP minutes when he comes back.
The reason of Manu being a 6th man is not that he can score, is that he can score in many ways and can pass the ball.
TP can score, but he is not a very good passer, Manu gets the best of the players he plays with, that's why Pop asks him to command the second unit.
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  #8  
Old 03-15-10, 03:03 AM
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First, the unit has to continue to play well without Parker when they hit Orlando and all the other fun +.500 teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
One thing I'm concerned about is that Hill being asked to start at PG plus being our defensive stopper has put him in foul trouble a lot lately.
That's always an issue with Hill, even when Parker played. Any time he played a big matchup he tended to pick up a few fouls playing aggressive and then picks up his usual 2nd year player fouls. Big games with big swing men tend to put him in those types of situations.
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Old 03-15-10, 12:53 PM
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It can happen, but the important thing is limiting everyone´s minutes to a healthy combination.
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  #10  
Old 03-15-10, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grego View Post
That's always an issue with Hill, even when Parker played. Any time he played a big matchup he tended to pick up a few fouls playing aggressive and then picks up his usual 2nd year player fouls. Big games with big swing men tend to put him in those types of situations.
True. My issue though is that if Hill continues as the starting PG, then it's more of a disruption to the team when he gets into foul trouble, versus him being the 2 guard and backup point.
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Old 03-15-10, 01:18 PM
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I don't even think TP will be close to 100% when the playoffs starts so this might be the plan...

Also...

It's his right hand and I don't care how much care TP has by the staff cause Bonner does not get the ball even 25% of what TP has to do with it....

Yes..u guys are right but it's plain to see RJ is playing better when guys like Gino and Hill can get him the ball for easy points..
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  #12  
Old 03-16-10, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALSPURS View Post
If/when Tony Parker comes back he should come off the bench....
This way he will be with the second unit...he could look to score more..I like this lineup right now..they play well together and Hill and Gino passing well to everyone has helped alot instead of a shot first PG...I am not saying we are better with TP on the bench but to ease him back in I think the Spurs should go this route and not just throw him right into the fire come playoff time..

If we can keep winning with the combination of Hill and Manu starting, I would endorse TP coming off the bench when he comes back. Why break up what could be a powerful lineup going into the playoffs. Easing TP back in would relieve any undo presssure to perform immediately and could prove to be a very cohesion move as we go forward.
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Old 03-16-10, 09:53 AM
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Not a fan of bringing Tp off the bench against the top teams...Tp Kills the Mavs, Lakers, and Cavs with his constant movement in the paint and this open up the game more for Manu, TIm etc...Spurs need to use Tp against the likes of Fisher, Kidd, Williams,etc..because they can't keep up with him.
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  #14  
Old 03-16-10, 10:40 AM
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^^^ Good point.

I would say regardless of who starts, I like the idea of coming with a two-headed monster like we've done the last few years-- first TP comes at you, then Manu. It's like having to prepare for 2 different quarterbacks because their approaches are so different.
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  #15  
Old 03-16-10, 11:20 AM
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How about we just bring Timmy off the bench too? You know lets just start our 7th - 12th best players every game. Let's really shake things up. IMagine Tim, McDyess, RJ, Manu, & TP going against the other teams 2nd unit. Pop's crazy enough to do it.

PS...I saw Ratliff played 32 minutes the other night. I wish we had big, vet like that
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Old 03-16-10, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
I think this was BillSmith's #3 suggestion (behind #1, trading Parker for Jose Calderon and a Matt Bonner Raptors replica jersey and #2 deporting Parker to France).

I actuall do think this is not a bad idea.
It was my second suggestion, behind trading him to Washington for some of those guys they ended up trading to other teams we're now chasing. I was pretty clear that I didnt think we'd get a trade done, so benching him was my only real suggestion.

Im glad you all finally came full circle.
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Old 03-17-10, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALSPURS View Post
If/when Tony Parker comes back he should come off the bench....

This way he will be with the second unit...he could look to score more..

I like this lineup right now..they play well together and Hill and Gino passing well to everyone has helped alot instead of a shot first PG...

I am not saying we are better with TP on the bench but to ease him back in I think the Spurs should go this route and not just throw him right into the fire come playoff time..
Agreed 100%. I said the same myself in another post. To have a Parker healthy looking to score off the bench would be a nice boost to our now pretty solid starting unit.:applause
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  #18  
Old 03-17-10, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billsmith3503 View Post
It was my second suggestion, behind trading him to Washington for some of those guys they ended up trading to other teams we're now chasing. I was pretty clear that I didnt think we'd get a trade done, so benching him was my only real suggestion.

Im glad you all finally came full circle.
For me it's less about Tony and more about 1) the emergence of Hill defensively and as a 3 point shooter 2) RJ's complete inability to play without Manu holding his hand 3) our horrible defensive rotations, which make it necessary to phase out anyone who can't lock down defensively ont he perimeter.

And I still think it's whacked to suggest trading TP for spare parts like Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood.
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Old 03-19-10, 10:23 PM
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I like the idea for a litte different reason. Tony against the other teams bench will not be as much of a defensive liability as when he plays the starters. And he should really be able to maximize his scorring efficiency when being defended by the the bench players on the offensive end.
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  #20  
Old 03-20-10, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
For me it's less about Tony and more about 1) the emergence of Hill defensively and as a 3 point shooter 2) RJ's complete inability to play without Manu holding his hand 3) our horrible defensive rotations, which make it necessary to phase out anyone who can't lock down defensively ont he perimeter.

And I still think it's whacked to suggest trading TP for spare parts like Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood.
RJ is a career 20 point scorer without Manu.

Hill was expected to emerge- its not something we didnt discuss in the offseason.

Butler scored 27 last night, is averaging more than Parker- and Heywood is 10-10 per night. I do that trade in a minute- and if we had, we'd be the team to beat right now.

You'll have to eat crow sometimes soon.
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  #21  
Old 03-20-10, 11:12 AM
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I also think TP should comeback off the bench for a few reasons. The current unit is finally Starting to gel and RJ seems to have regained his confidence.

TP is a scoring PG and his offense will help the bench. Plus when the 2nd unit comes in there won't be a let down, in fact, instead of slowing down the tempo it will probably be pick up and keep opponents on their heels. TP won't have to worry about setting up TD as much and he can be the man (offense).

Manu needs to start with RJ. There are few players that dramatically make players around him better like Lebron/Nash and Manu is that type of player. Plus he is playing like superstar Manu right now. RJ and Hill need that to get to the next level. I don't think Tony will do that for them because of his scoring 1st mentality.

I know TD is not playing his best but he will be ready come playoff time.
The only player who worries me is Roger mason because he has not been himself. Last year he really was one the best players we had I hope he shakes this slump off and starts hitting.
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Old 03-20-10, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
I also think TP should comeback off the bench for a few reasons. The current unit is finally Starting to gel and RJ seems to have regained his confidence.

TP is a scoring PG and his offense will help the bench. Plus when the 2nd unit comes in there won't be a let down, in fact, instead of slowing down the tempo it will probably be pick up and keep opponents on their heels. TP won't have to worry about setting up TD as much and he can be the man (offense).

Manu needs to start with RJ. There are few players that dramatically make players around him better like Lebron/Nash and Manu is that type of player. Plus he is playing like superstar Manu right now. RJ and Hill need that to get to the next level. I don't think Tony will do that for them because of his scoring 1st mentality.

I know TD is not playing his best but he will be ready come playoff time.
The only player who worries me is Roger mason because he has not been himself. Last year he really was one the best players we had I hope he shakes this slump off and starts hitting.
I agree with most of this-- except the Mason thing, imo- the guy had a nice streak in the middle of last season and hasnt been seen since- he doesnt deserve the minutes he does get.
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  #23  
Old 03-20-10, 03:00 PM
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Mason isn't contributing this year and shouldn't be given the chance to. if he's given minutes, then that takes away minutes from guys who are contributing, which is gonna hurt us.

i honestly like our chances against the Lakers with Parker off the bench. if he's gonna be in attack mode with his speed while guys are already using energy, it could be well for us. that would have Hill guarding Kobe and really with the current starting 5, the Lakers can't cheat off of anyone. they can't leave Hill, Manu, RJ, Duncan, or even Dice open.

the gamble in this is if we start Parker, what RJ are we going to get? he's already said he liked playing with Manu. if we start Manu, TP, and RJ, who's guarding Kobe? Manu's decent on defense but i wouldn't want him guarding Kobe. if RJ could handle it i'd give him the job but i don't trust him enough. i think Hill's defense on the best player on the other team and Manu's ball movement has helped him get confidence and our current starting 5 are gelling.

another reason to debate is if Hill/Hairston/Bogans/Bonner/Blair come off the bench, that's a pretty decent bench. we got 3 defensive players, a 3 point shooting big, and a strong PF who can rebound.
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