RJ, just doesn't fit.

[Bryhn]

Originally Posted by pessimist
I don't think it's RJ's fault he is not fitting in. The Spurs are running the exact same offense they have in year's past when BOWEN was here. Jefferson has filled his shoes -- and just like always -- the Small Forward doesn't really get to touch the ball much.

Parker and Tim dominate the ball. Anything the SF gets -- it's on them.

Having played a lot of basketball myself -- when you play with guys where you never really get to touch the ball -- you lose focus -- and eventually you don't even really care.

I think that is the problem with RJ.

This is almost exactly what I've been thinking the whole season. Unfortunately RJ's problems lie mostly on Pop's inability to coach an offense. Pop has a great defensive mindset but his offensive sets are mediocre at best. How many times did we run 4 down ineffectively against the Lakers in the early 00's only to get embarrassed? That said, Pop can typically come up with very good plays for the end of games but it shouldn't even get to that point, especially with the level of talent we have on this team.

If the dude really wanted to win, he'd find a way to contribute. Defense and sloppy turnovers can be controlled no matter what your role is.

[ALSPURS]

He shows sometimes that he can get by his man at will...but then he will make a play that makes you really wonder...

McDyess is starting to come around...let's hope for our chances RJ does the same...

[Rzarector7]

Originally Posted by ALSPURS

He shows sometimes that he can get by his man at will...but then he will make a play that makes you really wonder...

McDyess is starting to come around...let's hope for our chances RJ does the same...

RJ coming around would be huge, I don't see it at all yet though I hate when I see him WIDE open and he clanks shot after shot, he is literally LEFT ALONE and can't hit midrange shots it seems. I counted three or so wide open ones last night that he clanked, routine shots anyone makes.

[spursfan9]

the problem is that he just wants to fit in. and you guys all want someone who "fits in" . and pop and spurs want someone who "fits in" a "good guy" .

and what we need... is a bada$$. we need one guy , who can go out there w/ some real 'tude. and just goes crazy, and u have to put him on a short leash and hold him back because he can get out of control... but when used in an controlled atmosphere he will give the spurs tru energy and really actually HELP bring everyone together...

like rodman. and sjax. and jst about anyone else who has that unshakeable confidence regardless of the situation. on bad teams, this is a bad (not good) characteristic. becuase it tears apart the team, and coaches can't run their plays. etc.

but on a team w/ so much system and players who FIT... we need a X.

someone who, when we're down 20, in his mind, he doesn't give flying F*#$ ,, he goes down and knows he's gonna win, hits 3 3's and then if u let him keep going, u'd lose the game b/c he'd start tossin up garbage and turning it over... but w/ Duncan Parker Ginobili Pop, we could take control again cause he'd put us back in the game.

[spd2base]

I changed my mind. Its Manu who doesn't fit. He missed a wide open 3 to tie it. TRADE HIM!

[Brooklyn Dave]

Given his contract, it's unlikely that RJ can be traded. The real question, can the team find a way to use his skills to their advantage -this season??

As I see it, there's no other option.

[grizzly_bexar]

Originally Posted by pessimist

I don't think it's RJ's fault he is not fitting in. The Spurs are running the exact same offense they have in year's past when BOWEN was here. Jefferson has filled his shoes -- and just like always -- the Small Forward doesn't really get to touch the ball much.

Parker and Tim dominate the ball. Anything the SF gets -- it's on them.

Having played a lot of basketball myself -- when you play with guys where you never really get to touch the ball -- you lose focus -- and eventually you don't even really care.

I think that is the problem with RJ.

I agree. Basically we are using him on offense like a 13million dollar Bruce Bowen who can occasionally get a dunk.

That said, part of the blame goes on him. He's not being assertive enough. His only success has come with teams where he is spoon feed by an alpha male point guard (Jason Kidd).

It's not his offense that disappoints me, though. It's his defense. Not that I expected him to be a hustling, diving defensive stopper, but just that his lack of focus and intensity is glaring right now.

[grizzly_bexar]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Dave

Given his contract, it's unlikely that RJ can be traded. The real question, can the team find a way to use his skills to their advantage -this season??

As I see it, there's no other option.

This is what gets me.

If you're Pop, you HAVE to know going in that RJ is just not that aggressive or intense. If he were, he'd be right there with Kobe and Lebron given his athletic ability and skill set.

So you have to go in with the assumption that you're not going to turn him into a supermaniac on defense or a stickler for detail on offense. You do what you can to coach him to be more intense. But you can't stop there.

You have to feed this guy like a six month old baby. That is what Kidd did and it took the Nets to the Finals with basically just RJ and Kmart.

That's why I say you play Manu and RJ together, because without an alpha dog distributor on the floor, RJ on the offensive end is just Bruce Bowen who can dunk.

[grizzly_bexar]

Originally Posted by spursfan9

the problem is that he just wants to fit in. and you guys all want someone who "fits in" . and pop and spurs want someone who "fits in" a "good guy" .

and what we need... is a bada$$. we need one guy , who can go out there w/ some real 'tude. and just goes crazy, and u have to put him on a short leash and hold him back because he can get out of control... but when used in an controlled atmosphere he will give the spurs tru energy and really actually HELP bring everyone together...

like rodman. and sjax. and jst about anyone else who has that unshakeable confidence regardless of the situation. on bad teams, this is a bad (not good) characteristic. becuase it tears apart the team, and coaches can't run their plays. etc.

but on a team w/ so much system and players who FIT... we need a X.

someone who, when we're down 20, in his mind, he doesn't give flying F*#$ ,, he goes down and knows he's gonna win, hits 3 3's and then if u let him keep going, u'd lose the game b/c he'd start tossin up garbage and turning it over... but w/ Duncan Parker Ginobili Pop, we could take control again cause he'd put us back in the game.

I agree.

Championship teams need alpha dogs. TP/TD are self-motivated guys who push it to the limit without anybody to keep them in line, and Manu is an alpha type. But none of them are going to keep guys in line.

This team needs a Keith Brooking.

[Alvin_HK]

It's not his fault that he is forced to play the 4 and physically out-matched from day to day. It's hard enough to fit into the Spurs system as a new player, let alone adjusting to play out of his natural position.

[FunkySpur]

I too am very disappointed in Jefferson's play and hesitation. However, the Spurs' system is notoriously complex. The defensive assignments are counter-intuitive and quite different from what all basketball players learn growing up. For example, in high school and college, you never let your man drive baseline, but that's exactly what Pop wants with his 7-footers guarding the rim. It was designed primarily to funnel players into first D-Rob, now Timmy. Pop needs to re-think that system since it was designed for specific personnel. Nevertheless, I still like RJ's hops and ability to drive. He needs to do it every time he gets the ball! I just think it's time for Pop to take the gloves off, and treat him like he treated Parker for so long. Ride 'em hard, and tell him to prove the Spurs didn't make a mistake!

[ro_50]

Originally Posted by Flipmode Master

I gotta admit i don't think the Spurs ran ONE play for him last night...I can't even remember him even getting that many ball touches I mean...I can remeber a million times when Parker or Manu got the ball at the top of the key...they NEVER do that for Jefferson(not like he has given them much reason to)..he isn't going to produce more on his own..and with the Way Tim was fumbling balls last night..they should have ran a play for RJ.

You're exactly right Flipmode.

RJ has never been the player to take people off the dribble on a consistent basis. People see the dunks and athleticism and automatically assume that player can do other things as well.

But in basketball, a lot of players who are not overly athletic -- see Steve Smith in his prime -- had decent ways to get to the basket w/ his hesitation dribble on the baseline.

RJ is a player that facilitates off others, like Kidd. He's an average driver to the rim. He doesn't have a great handle nor the greatest first step to the basket.

What made Dominique so great from the SF position? He had that great first step.

RJ in this offense is not finding a comfort zone because TP gets guys the ball in spots where he's expects them to be at after the penetration. TP is a better passer on the move than from a stopping point.

RJ hasn't found that zone w/ him and his game has suffered here. He would fit better in an offense that relies more on free movement than this system.

His style of play doesnt' fit this system it seems.

[Rzarector7]

Originally Posted by spursfan9

the problem is that he just wants to fit in. and you guys all want someone who "fits in" . and pop and spurs want someone who "fits in" a "good guy" .

and what we need... is a bada$$. we need one guy , who can go out there w/ some real 'tude. and just goes crazy, and u have to put him on a short leash and hold him back because he can get out of control... but when used in an controlled atmosphere he will give the spurs tru energy and really actually HELP bring everyone together...

like rodman. and sjax. and jst about anyone else who has that unshakeable confidence regardless of the situation. on bad teams, this is a bad (not good) characteristic. becuase it tears apart the team, and coaches can't run their plays. etc.

but on a team w/ so much system and players who FIT... we need a X.

someone who, when we're down 20, in his mind, he doesn't give flying F*#$ ,, he goes down and knows he's gonna win, hits 3 3's and then if u let him keep going, u'd lose the game b/c he'd start tossin up garbage and turning it over... but w/ Duncan Parker Ginobili Pop, we could take control again cause he'd put us back in the game.

LOLgood post, that gets you fired up. Horry when down to the Suns after blowing that lead in game 4, he checks Nash and starts a riot lol, that got two ejected for the next game! I know that was not his intent but he got mad and checked him and they got suspended, two pluses on one play! That play was heroic IMO, I loved it.

[ro_50]

Originally Posted by spursfan9

the problem is that he just wants to fit in. and you guys all want someone who "fits in" . and pop and spurs want someone who "fits in" a "good guy" .

and what we need... is a bada$$. we need one guy , who can go out there w/ some real 'tude. and just goes crazy, and u have to put him on a short leash and hold him back because he can get out of control... but when used in an controlled atmosphere he will give the spurs tru energy and really actually HELP bring everyone together...

like rodman. and sjax. and jst about anyone else who has that unshakeable confidence regardless of the situation. on bad teams, this is a bad (not good) characteristic. becuase it tears apart the team, and coaches can't run their plays. etc.

but on a team w/ so much system and players who FIT... we need a X.

someone who, when we're down 20, in his mind, he doesn't give flying F*#$ ,, he goes down and knows he's gonna win, hits 3 3's and then if u let him keep going, u'd lose the game b/c he'd start tossin up garbage and turning it over... but w/ Duncan Parker Ginobili Pop, we could take control again cause he'd put us back in the game.

And the funny thing is, how much better would this team be with an SJax, who has a more varied offensive game, than with a R Jefferson.

SJax was the perfect elixir on that 03 team.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by spd2base

Sometimes u have to just recognize...we're not as good as we used to be. The rest of the league got better, and Spurs just got older. Changing of the guard is starting to happen, its hard to say...but well...

YES the writing is on the wall for the once great spurs team.

[kaji157]

I just hope that given that we all know that RJ won't be traded he finds a way to fit in. If he was defending people the way Bowen was, i woudn't even care about his offense, he is shooting at a decent rate both from 2 and from 3. He just needs to focus more on defense and no one will care about his offense. If anything, he has to be better at some spots he knows he will get the ball more, corner 3, and both sides of the key for hard penetrations.
If he continues to wok on those aspects, he can easily average 14 pts and be a contributor on both sides. I think this is what the Spurs are looking for.

[Grego]

The good news is he has shown an ability to play good D. The game against the Mavs most recently, RJ played solid D. Only after Coach B pulled RJ, did Dirk go off. He might still have, but RJ has the ability.

Defenses still can't sag off of RJ. Even as much as he's slumping, he forces the defense to play him honestly, especially when you have Duncan in. With Hill in the starting lineup, there's less pressure to put on RJ in terms of him having to be hot right away.

With that said, RJ was a gamble, but the deal was still the best thing they can do for a big named player. Just didn't work out.

Personally, I would have hoped they would have chased guys like Quentin Ross. Not a big name, but plays D and is tall. Can hit the 3. Maybe he would have been chased if the trade did not go through.

Looking into next year, Spurs new guys almost always play better in their 2nd year. Finley and Barry are good examples of recent players. Hedo might have been the case since his career became solidified after his Spurs stint.


I do think the Spurs should run him off screens and hit him for jump shots. He should also play in more screen and rolls since he has a good first step.

[TodTango]

Watching at Staples, I thought that he tried to play with more fire. He went for a reverse dunk and even used the rim to fend off a defender but still Kaman got to it. You have to credit Kaman for that stellar defense. It seemed as though RJ is still a bit hesitant and truth be told, he defers a lot. I think if they called plays for him, he'd do better as long as the play was more Princeton offense with lots of backdoor cuts and dives like when he thrived at New Jersey. I wonder why when he's at the top bend in the arc, when Tony drives in, he doesn't do a dive cut to the line because with all the attention Parker is getting on the drive, to me...a drop pass to Jefferson is an easy highlight dunk because the lane is that clear. But RJ just stays back. The question is...is he ordered to, so as to prevent a fast-break back OR, is he just hesitant because he doesn't want to interfere with the spacing?

[Flipmode Master]

I really think its possible for him to fit..I really do..I mean I still think the trader was a good idea...I mean they NEED him to contribute for the SPurs to win...but not as many points as we think..he is averaging 12...if he can get 14 and penetrate the opposing defenses...it will help alot...I mean think about it you got Parker, Manu, Hill and Jefferson relentlessly going to the rim? wow..hope he catches on...

[prolog788]

from watching the game last night, RJ is really trying hard to make the most of his playing time. he had some good defensive sequences, but the refs were giving him a hard time with the fouls that were called on him.

it was nice to see the relief on his face after making his first shot of the night. hopefully this rodeo road trip helps him synch with the team.