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Old 01-08-10, 05:17 AM
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Mavericks-Spurs Preview / Game Thread

Mavericks-Spurs Preview



While the Dallas Mavericks have set the early pace in the Southwest Division, the San Antonio Spurs are starting to catch up.

The rivals will meet for the third time this season Friday night as Spurs host the team with the most road wins in the Western Conference.

Dallas (24-11) started strong to build a lead atop the Southwest, but San Antonio (21-12) has gone 12-3 since a 9-9 start to pull within two games. The teams have split two meetings with the Spurs playing without an injured Tony Parker both times.

Parker is back and coming off consecutive 23-point outings, while Manu Ginobili appears to be flourishing in more of a playmaker role. He averaged 5.3 assists over his last seven games for San Antonio, winner of four of the last five division titles.

"We've got to go out there and do what we do and contain him (Parker) and contain Tim (Duncan) and Ginobili," Mavericks forward Shawn Marion said. "They've got a good team and they've been playing a lot better than they started."

Parker will get his first look at the Mavericks since he averaged 28.6 points and 6.8 assists in last season's five-game loss in the first round of the playoffs.

"It's going to a big game and we are on the right track," Parker said. "We are playing some good basketball and we will see what we can do against them."

Dallas is concerned about how it will defend Duncan, particularly if center Erick Dampier misses a third straight game with a knee injury. Coach Rick Carlisle is unsure who will draw the assignment if Dampier can't play.

"A big part of our game plan is trying to slow him down in transition and pick-and-rolls and so forth," Carlisle said about Duncan. "Our whole team is going to have to do a good job. Otherwise he's great at getting into the paint, finishing and causing havoc."

This will be the fifth road game out of six for the Mavericks, who are 12-6 away from home. They split a four-game trip before returning home and struggling past Detroit 98-93 on Tuesday.

Jason Terry scored 26 points off the bench and Dirk Nowitzki added 22 and 12 rebounds.

"It was ugly," Nowitzki said. "It looked like we had a little West Coast hangover. We didn't have any energy. But (Terry) carried us offensively all game long. He kept making shots."

The Spurs are eager to see how they measure up after they had an easier time with Detroit in a 112-92 win Wednesday. San Antonio shot 58.1 percent and had six players score in double figures.

"It's great preparation for Dallas," forward Richard Jefferson said."They are one of the most talented teams in the league and they are ahead of us in our division and in the conference standings. This is one of those games that you look forward to."

San Antonio did not have Parker or Duncan when Jefferson scored 29 points in a 92-83 home win over Dallas on Nov. 11. One week later in Dallas, Nowitzki was brilliant with a season-high 41 points and 12 boards in a 99-94 overtime win for the Mavs.

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Old 01-08-10, 10:06 AM
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Difficult concept to grasp, "Dampier" and "A big part of our gameplan..." in consecutive sentences....
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Old 01-08-10, 10:28 AM
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NBA.com - Referee Assignments
Jan 8, 2010
Dallas @ San Antonio--JoeCrawford, Leroy Richardson, ZachZarba
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Old 01-08-10, 11:40 AM
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Barea's gonna burn us for 60 points, 25 assists, and 30 rebounds
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Old 01-08-10, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shelshor View Post
NBA.com - Referee Assignments
Jan 8, 2010
Dallas @ San Antonio--JoeCrawford, Leroy Richardson, ZachZarba
:shocked
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Old 01-08-10, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
Barea's gonna burn us for 60 points, 25 assists, and 30 rebounds
That guy really gets under my skin, like a chigger.
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Old 01-08-10, 01:47 PM
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LORD knows this is not going to be an easy game for my Spurs to win...Add to that the GREAT officials serving!!!!!

Still I know my Spurs will show up tonight and Tony will have a big game. Manu will burn the Mavs Burn them And TIMMMMAY will dominate and RJ will show up big time and our Rook BLAIR will surprise us again with a great game and Bogans will shut some Mavs down.

This is going to be a heck of a game. Spurs win despite all the odd things!!

It might go down to the wire but I am fealin positive vibes on this one.

Spurs better win this because I will be in attendance.

Spurs 102
Mavs 101
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Old 01-08-10, 01:50 PM
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Is this game on in Austin??
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Old 01-08-10, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robofuzz View Post
Is this game on in Austin??
Not sure if this will help:

TXA 21 (KTXA) - Standard Definition

TXA 21 (KTXA) - High Definition
DirecTV - Channel 21

Direct TV - channel 21-1
Dish Network - Channel 21


Time Warner Cable - Channel 12 (Most of N.Texas) Channel 6 (Greenville & Commerce)

Time Warner Cable - Channel 387 (Most of N. Texas) Channel 735 (Greenville & Commerce)
Charter Cable - Channel 12 (Most of N.Texas)

Charter Cable - Channel 783 (Most of N.Texas)
Verizon FIOS - Channel 21 (Most of N. Texas)

Verizon FIOS - Channel 521 (Most of N. Texas)
AT&T U-VERSE - Channel 21 (Most of N. Texas)

AT&T U-VERSE - Channel 1021 (Most of N. Texas)

Hope it does.
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Old 01-08-10, 07:27 PM
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No dice for TWC subscribers tonight. Sigh.
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Old 01-08-10, 08:57 PM
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I have Dish and there is no channel 21.
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Old 01-08-10, 09:44 PM
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2 combined points from post players other than Timmy. Pathetic.
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Old 01-08-10, 09:48 PM
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Come on Spurs
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Old 01-08-10, 09:52 PM
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Spurs aren't a very good team. They're a good team, Miami Heat level, but they can't hang with the very good or great teams.
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Old 01-08-10, 09:59 PM
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spurs will be fine once the playoffs arrive. May not win it all but they'll make a good run at it.
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Old 01-08-10, 10:03 PM
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The next three games.. 1-2.. A win vs the Nets and a loss versus the Fakers.. And a loss at OKC...
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Old 01-08-10, 10:08 PM
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They never should have taken RJ out after that block. Dirk went off once RJ stopped guarding him.

Blah. 7-12 in the 4th quarter for Dirk.
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Old 01-08-10, 10:12 PM
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Speechless, but I could see it coming late. They poured it on us.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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Old 01-08-10, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grego View Post
They never should have taken RJ out after that block. Dirk went off once RJ stopped guarding him.



Blah. 7-12 in the 4th quarter for Dirk.
Killed us in the 4th last game bigtime, MURDERS us again in the fourth this time. This is a pattern with him against us in the 4th.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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Old 01-08-10, 10:17 PM
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worst loss of the season thats for sure. Game would have happened differently had POP been there calling the shots. At times I found myself judging some of the calls. Hope they get hungry going against NJ which translates into the game against LA. Just hope PHX and DEN lose tonight so we have 1 less loss than them
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Old 01-08-10, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzarector7 View Post
Killed us in the 4th last game bigtime, MURDERS us again in the fourth this time. This is a pattern with him against us in the 4th.
believe that was the 3rd game against them, 2-1 in favor of the mavs
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Old 01-08-10, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by spurduncan21 View Post
believe that was the 3rd game against them, 2-1 in favor of the mavs
sorry misinterpreted wat u said
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Old 01-08-10, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurduncan21 View Post
worst loss of the season thats for sure. Game would have happened differently had POP been there calling the shots. At times I found myself judging some of the calls. Hope they get hungry going against NJ which translates into the game against LA. Just hope PHX and DEN lose tonight so we have 1 less loss than them
You would think after all these years that Budinholzer (sp) would know by now what Pop would have done.

He missed calling time outs, he took hill, mason and blair out just terrible coaching.

oh fyi Four stitches for Gooden.
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Old 01-08-10, 11:05 PM
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just simply outcoached so the more I think about it the less pissed I'll be. Every year POP is voted the best coach at making adjustments during a game. I see the SPURS playing strong these next 2 games
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Old 01-08-10, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulce View Post
You would think after all these years that Budinholzer (sp) would know by now what Pop would have done.

He missed calling time outs, he took hill, mason and blair out just terrible coaching.

oh fyi Four stitches for Gooden.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzarector7 View Post
Killed us in the 4th last game bigtime, MURDERS us again in the fourth this time. This is a pattern with him against us in the 4th.

He also pulled out RJ after that block on Terry. Right after, Dirk picks it up and goes off for 7-12 in the quarter.

Terry also went off in the 4th. Two guys going off his hard to combat when your big three doesn't show up in the 2nd half. Only Duncan really brought anything. All 4 looked good heading into half time and Parker was hitting the jumper which was a good sign.

They also should have called a lot of plays for RJ when Dirk was covering him, because he would have picked up fouls playing him one on one.
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Last edited by Grego; 01-08-10 at 11:28 PM.
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  #26  
Old 01-09-10, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grego View Post
He also pulled out RJ after that block on Terry. Right after, Dirk picks it up and goes off for 7-12 in the quarter.

Terry also went off in the 4th. Two guys going off his hard to combat when your big three doesn't show up in the 2nd half. Only Duncan really brought anything. All 4 looked good heading into half time and Parker was hitting the jumper which was a good sign.

They also should have called a lot of plays for RJ when Dirk was covering him, because he would have picked up fouls playing him one on one.
Either or we had a big lead on Dallas tonight and lost at home, we can say this and that but thats all it equated to I hate that team so much, when we had a 13 point lead I said go and blow them out! Of course that was short lived and tonight is very depressing
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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Old 01-09-10, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzarector7 View Post
Either or we had a big lead on Dallas tonight and lost at home, we can say this and that but thats all it equated to I hate that team so much, when we had a 13 point lead I said go and blow them out! Of course that was short lived and tonight is very depressing
Losing to Dallas is probably the worst opponent to lose to out of all 30 teams.

Even Spurs feel that.

MYSA

Quote:
Hill gets mad: Spurs backup guard George Hill drew a technical foul after going chest-to-chest with Mavericks guard Jason Terry in the third quarter of Friday's game. Usually stoic, Hill accused Terry of intentionally trying to trip him after the two players had scrambled after a loose ball. Terry also drew a technical.

“I just thought it was a dirty play,” Hill said. “I thought he tried to trip me on purpose.

“I know it's basketball and things happen, and I let my attitude get the best of me at the time.”

Rubbing it in: Some of the Spurs were none too happy when Mavericks center Erick Dampier, his team already ahead by nine points, fired up a 3-point shot that fell in the game's final seconds.

“Come on, man,” said Spurs veteran Antonio McDyess. “If you've got respect for the other team you don't (take that shot). I know the shot clock was running out, but that's just showboating to me. We'll remember that, too.”
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"When nothing seems to help, I go look at a stonecutter hammering away at this rock perhaps 100 times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the 101st blow, it will split in two and I know it was not that blow that did it. But all that had gone before." - Jacob Riis
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  #28  
Old 01-09-10, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grego View Post
Losing to Dallas is probably the worst opponent to lose to out of all 30 teams.

Even Spurs feel that.

MYSA
They better remember that shot too and take it personal next time or the next few times they meet if it is playoffs! Take is personal now as it is PERSONAl and has been for a while with them!!!!! Take it personal DYESS and show up next time against them! Take it personal the rest fo the Spurs and show them you are ready for them and you can beat them!

They feel they can fall behind big and come back and beat us at home, hell they are comfortable here! This hurts bigtime, they need to take it personal and play better ball, period!!!! END OF STORY.

Rza.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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Old 01-09-10, 02:31 AM
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We need to trade a assistant coach. Bring Carlesimo back...
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Old 01-09-10, 10:50 AM
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Bloody hell please bring Carlissimo back.
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Old 01-09-10, 05:08 PM
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It was so painful and saaaaaaaad to watch my Spurs last night. I almost cried at the fourth when I felt Da Spurs were helpless....lost.....and totally giving up!!!! They were supposed to keep the best for the last and bring it at the fourth!!!!

I truly believed the Spurs would have been able to come back and pull that game. Apparently the Spurs are just not that tough mentally to close in on good teams yet....It takes a heck of a determination and cooperation and FIERCE COMPETING to bring it vs good teams. If it is that easy any other teams could do it. It is supposed to be that challenging and Spurs are supposed to like challenges....

Sad bitter truth NEEDS to be told.

Spurs are just not at that level now. They are just too inconsistent and are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY behind playing good teams.

I am just praying that this HIDIOUS loss to the mavs at home would make the Spurs wake the f@##$$ up and start playing some team basketbaall and most importantly SPURS DEFENSE.

If the Spurs need to bring Bruce Bowen back from retirement let them do so.

With the current offense up and down so much. And Spurs can be shut down offensively at the second half that EASILY!!!

The ONLY way Spurs will come back to compete with good teams is through GREAT DEFENSE and that is the only hope...

Hope Spurs D will come back to normal.....Then the O will naturally bring itself back magically effortlessly without any pressure....

Just my 2 cents.
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  #32  
Old 01-09-10, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurscrazed View Post
It was so painful and saaaaaaaad to watch my Spurs last night. I almost cried at the fourth when I felt Da Spurs were helpless....lost.....and totally giving up!!!! They were supposed to keep the best for the last and bring it at the fourth!!!!

I truly believed the Spurs would have been able to come back and pull that game. Apparently the Spurs are just not that tough mentally to close in on good teams yet....It takes a heck of a determination and cooperation and FIERCE COMPETING to bring it vs good teams. If it is that easy any other teams could do it. It is supposed to be that challenging and Spurs are supposed to like challenges....

Sad bitter truth NEEDS to be told.

Spurs are just not at that level now. They are just too inconsistent and are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY behind playing good teams.

I am just praying that this HIDIOUS loss to the mavs at home would make the Spurs wake the f@##$$ up and start playing some team basketbaall and most importantly SPURS DEFENSE.

If the Spurs need to bring Bruce Bowen back from retirement let them do so.

With the current offense up and down so much. And Spurs can be shut down offensively at the second half that EASILY!!!

The ONLY way Spurs will come back to compete with good teams is through GREAT DEFENSE and that is the only hope...

Hope Spurs D will come back to normal.....Then the O will naturally bring itself back magically effortlessly without any pressure....

Just my 2 cents.
you know, i really think it's obvious how important defense is for a championship team - it's essential to be a good defensive team. what i don't understand though, is if our team is supposed to be all defensive minded, how on earth do you have Matt Bonner as your starting center and Michael Finley as your starting sg (last year). that to me really started making me question how much we can really rely on defense when you're not putting the right players out there. i'm not blaming these guys for the loss, but rather, questioning the focus on defense from an organizational standpoint. it just feels like over the past years, the only reason the announcers referred to us as a good defensive team was because of the very strong reputation we've had in previous years as a good defensive team, but it really feels like we've shifted away from 'spurs defense'.

i mean just think about small-ball. the entire purpose of us trotting that out is because Pop feels we can't SCORE enough with the bigs, so he must put out offensive minded players. the results are always expected - we never had the right personnel for small ball (a BIG sf who's athletic and plays bigger), and so instead we get murdered on the glass, get posted up easily, and rely so heaviliy on 3pt shooting - living and dying by the 3. this isn't the Spurs' basketball i knew, where we had defensive liabilities all over the court, but somehow, we evolved into that. we've got the right personnel now to play defensive-minded basketball the right way, but it's a matter of everyone buying into it, the leaders (Tim is exceptional, but i think TONY and RJ specifically need to re-commit to defense), and Pop needs to play the right players - not his favorites or his jump-shooting liabilities. they need to get back to Spurs' defense and Spurs' basketball.

Last edited by theinswes; 01-09-10 at 07:23 PM.
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  #33  
Old 01-09-10, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theinswes View Post
you know, i really think it's obvious how important defense is for a championship team - it's essential to be a good defensive team. what i don't understand though, is if our team is supposed to be all defensive minded, how on earth do you have Matt Bonner as your starting center and Michael Finley as your starting sg (last year). that to me really started making me question how much we can really rely on defense when you're not putting the right players out there. i'm not blaming these guys for the loss, but rather, questioning the focus on defense from an organizational standpoint. it just feels like over the past years, the only reason the announcers referred to us as a good defensive team was because of the very strong reputation we've had in previous years as a good defensive team, but it really feels like we've shifted away from 'spurs defense'.

i mean just think about small-ball. the entire purpose of us trotting that out is because Pop feels we can't SCORE enough with the bigs, so he must put out offensive minded players. the results are always expected - we never had the right personnel for small ball (a BIG sf who's athletic and plays bigger), and so instead we get murdered on the glass, get posted up easily, and rely so heaviliy on 3pt shooting - living and dying by the 3. this isn't the Spurs' basketball i knew, where we had defensive liabilities all over the court, but somehow, we evolved into that. we've got the right personnel now to play defensive-minded basketball the right way, but it's a matter of everyone buying into it, the leaders (Tim is exceptional, but i think TONY and RJ specifically need to re-commit to defense), and Pop needs to play the right players - not his favorites or his jump-shooting liabilities. they need to get back to Spurs' defense and Spurs' basketball.

Totally agree with you here, but somehow I guessed what Pop might have been thinking.

The thing is Pop had started converting the Spurs to SMALL BALL ever since the Mavs beat us in the conference finals 06 and that was through small ball vs good deffensive half court SLOW offensive Spurs team.

I am just disregarding the fact that in 07 Spurs won the Championship with small ball too. To that 07 Championship I attribute the TEAM MATCHUPS + I don't think Spurs defense was this bad still....

After 07 Championship I noticed this SHIFT

That Pop had been RIGHTFULLY saddened deeply with the UNFAIR LAKERS GRIZZLIES trade + another BIG trade that shifted GARNETTE to Boston along with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce...that said the Boston Trade was not as affecting as the Lakers because of the conference record effect on our Spurs add to that the type of team Boston is now. with the remaining facts that worst matchips for us are Lakers and Mavs.

Since 08 my Spurs had been so inconsistent on Defense and Offense and Pop never got to bring this team to the same level of competing. Mainly HINDERED by meeting the MAVS or the LAKERS in the PO.....Like I said the worst nightmare for us now......

Other teams had been building up too!!!But the matchups are still not as bad as those 2 mentioned teams.

And our Spurs are still facing some challenges in lineups and committment to defense and balancing the offense with the poor defense and the small ball......

Hence the struggle continues here.....

Add to that the injuries that Manu and Tony and even Timmy had in the last two years.

I am not saying that the Spurs are doomed rather than saying that POP needs to bring these guys together especially now at the RODEO games and make them go through a special mental brain wash camp of committment to defense I mean real strong old SPURS DEFENSIVE minds and even bench the guys who don't follow the scheme. Then I think they will all realize that things will magically happen for them. It is just like riding a bike. Offense should never be of concern.

Saying that if you look how PHIL had prepared the lakers the last few years after the Gasol Trade, you would notice how the dominant part is not Gasol but rather it is to accomodate KOBE and to build around KOBE. so Phil is making them win by playing super strong offense that forces the defense to be somewhat good-To be honest here the lakers are not that good defensivly but they compensate with offense.

IMO Pop had been trying through the last 2 years to make the Spurs competetive and he also is trying to make them STRONG ENOUGH offensively but keep that small ball just in case we played Dallas again in the PO. which is a big possibility by now...and it has been an extremely challenging task as we have seen.

This year is different though as Spurs have all the needed pieces of the puzzle which were missing the last 2 years. That is why I am feeling positive for the coming PO. I guess patience is needed here. But the level of competition is not there yet....Which is frustrating seing a game like that slip with the importance of the southwest division and conf seeding and the PO matchup....Man it is deeply sad to see that loss...But I guess that is NBA life for ya....

All Spurs need now is to bring it to the next level on the Deffensive end and everything will drop for them on the offensive end.

The key is players being more committed defensivley and understanding of the team concept.

I still believe in Pop and Tim Duncan and Manu and Tony and all the Spurs GREAT power to bring changes and turn this team around and start riding the winning ship and starting their usual long run starting at the beg after the ASG at the second half pacing themselves to a GREAT run to another Championship that is very due this year.

I still believe that Pop is going to help this team do special things this year and make a huge noise come PO time.

Go Spurs Go
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Old 01-10-10, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theinswes View Post
you know, i really think it's obvious how important defense is for a championship team - it's essential to be a good defensive team. what i don't understand though, is if our team is supposed to be all defensive minded, how on earth do you have Matt Bonner as your starting center and Michael Finley as your starting sg (last year). that to me really started making me question how much we can really rely on defense when you're not putting the right players out there. i'm not blaming these guys for the loss, but rather, questioning the focus on defense from an organizational standpoint. it just feels like over the past years, the only reason the announcers referred to us as a good defensive team was because of the very strong reputation we've had in previous years as a good defensive team, but it really feels like we've shifted away from 'spurs defense'.
Well, this is why the Spurs needed to re-load. They were short on players who could play defense or do anything athletically to stay up with the players. This is why last season was one of the worst of the Duncan era, coupled with some bad injuries.

The problem was it's hard to destroy and re-build in the mist of a setup that has big contracts with the big 3. In theory, you could destroy it all and just keep Duncan with a new set of people who fit a more defensive mindset, but then you lose the chemistry/experience factor.

I think they did a pretty good job of adding talent capable. The problem is they still lack another big guy. But there's only so much cash left on the table.

The Spurs did wait 1.5-2 years too long to start re-building. They tried to be conservative with money, but also didn't think about the summer play (and long playoff runs) taking its toll on the key players. Big men are always hard to get because they are limited in quantity when it comes to quality.

Quote:
i mean just think about small-ball. the entire purpose of us trotting that out is because Pop feels we can't SCORE enough with the bigs, so he must put out offensive minded players. the results are always expected - we never had the right personnel for small ball (a BIG sf who's athletic and plays bigger), and so instead we get murdered on the glass, get posted up easily, and rely so heaviliy on 3pt shooting - living and dying by the 3. this isn't the Spurs' basketball i knew, where we had defensive liabilities all over the court, but somehow, we evolved into that. we've got the right personnel now to play defensive-minded basketball the right way, but it's a matter of everyone buying into it, the leaders (Tim is exceptional, but i think TONY and RJ specifically need to re-commit to defense), and Pop needs to play the right players - not his favorites or his jump-shooting liabilities. they need to get back to Spurs' defense and Spurs' basketball.
As far as small ball goes. Spurs big men still are not athletic enough to stay with a lot of the guys. That is some of the problem. There are just guys that McDyess can't stay with nor can Blair (who tends to pick up fouls more than anything).

There's never really going to be a good small ball lineup for the Spurs unless they have a guy like an Odom (who would have been my ideal pick for the offseason), but then he would be undersized for the bigger teams. But he would take away a key Laker player.

Small ball in long periods is always going to be bad. It's about finding the balance. However, small ball won't work well if you are not scoring on the other end - which sort of occurred in the 2nd half (of the Dallas game). Outside of Duncan, the big 4 failed in the 2nd half.

With respect to defense, Tony has never been a good defender. He's been slightly above average, but will never really be better than that. His D really isn't different than it was last year or the year before. His offense is what is needed most now, because all his numbers are down but his turnovers are up.

As for RJ, his D has been improving and it was solid against Dirk when he was up against him. Dirk finally got it going once Coach B took him out in the 4th quarter (after the Terry block). His D actually has been good the past few weeks. I would say his defense is right on track, but he still needs to bring more offense, as it fell off in the 2nd half after a fairly aggressive 1st half.
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