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  #1  
Old 02-24-07, 10:35 AM
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O'Neal Calls Nash's MVPs 'Tainted'

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._mvps_tainted/
O'Neal Calls Nash's MVPs 'Tainted'
24th February, 2007 - 5:43 am
Arizona Republic -
Shaquille O'Neal considers Steve Nash's MVP awards to be "tainted."

After Miami's loss in Dallas on Thursday, O'Neal was engaged in an MVP discussion as it related to the Mavericks' Dirk Nowitzki. O'Neal questioned how the media picks MVPs and said the award has been "tainted" the past two seasons. O'Neal was the runner-up for Nash's first MVP in 2005.

O'Neal repeated "tainted" references to reporters.

"I don't know what to say," Nash said. "I'm sorry he feels that way." [READ]
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Old 02-24-07, 10:43 AM
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Man, doesn't he know that words like that only make him sound petty and jealous? :richb
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Old 02-24-07, 10:48 AM
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tainted by what? not winning a ring? i dont see KG with a ring on his finger either, and its hard for me to think of 10 better basketball players, ever.

but who knows exactly what hes talking about when he says "tainted". funny he would say that but not go into specifics...maybe he goes more into depth in the rest of the article...? really unprofessional IMO whether he explained it or not, anyway.

of course Nash takes the high road. always a class act. wouldnt it be funny if he said "well if my mvp's are tainted, then shaqs last ring is tainted because all he did was stand there while wade won him his revenge ring" shaq needs to grow up.

Last edited by GM5K; 02-24-07 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 02-24-07, 11:16 AM
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I'm sorry but Shaq didn't deserve an MVP the year Nash won it. He missed games. His team was mediocre against the big teams. I feel that maybe Shaq has gotten screwed but Nash has been brilliant. For all our dislike of the Suns, Nash has somehow gone from good point guard/ good shooter from his Dallas years to an all world caliber point guard in Phoenix, elevating a team and a style of play even further than Don Nelson ever could.
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Old 02-24-07, 11:21 AM
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shaq has never been scared to tell ppl how he really feels, and hey, at least he's honest. dirk was mvp last year. the year before, shaq probably coulda been mvp too.

think about this, how does an mvp get traded, and then the team he left becomes BETTER!? i don't think dallas ever wished they kept steve nash, and dirk got so much better when he left. we saw shaq's impact on the lakers, from perennial title contenders to lottery (they're building back up, but aren't close to before). was it just the system that made him become mvp?

barkeley said something interesting, by blaming the suns for not building up another pg. they don't give the guy enought time, enough chances, and the backups become nervous. phx belieives they can't win without nash at all, and they force him to play a lot n get burned out. barbosa's a shoot first guard, and marcus banks' career is based completely off potential. i just can't accept a guy who plays one end of the floor become the most valuable twice. once, i'll take it. but back to back, when there were other legit contenders?
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Old 02-24-07, 11:25 AM
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That is sad and petty.
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Old 02-24-07, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theinswes View Post
shaq has never been scared to tell ppl how he really feels, and hey, at least he's honest. dirk was mvp last year. the year before, shaq probably coulda been mvp too.

think about this, how does an mvp get traded, and then the team he left becomes BETTER!? i don't think dallas ever wished they kept steve nash, and dirk got so much better when he left. we saw shaq's impact on the lakers, from perennial title contenders to lottery (they're building back up, but aren't close to before). was it just the system that made him become mvp?

barkeley said something interesting, by blaming the suns for not building up another pg. they don't give the guy enought time, enough chances, and the backups become nervous. phx belieives they can't win without nash at all, and they force him to play a lot n get burned out. barbosa's a shoot first guard, and marcus banks' career is based completely off potential. i just can't accept a guy who plays one end of the floor become the most valuable twice. once, i'll take it. but back to back, when there were other legit contenders?
Dallas got better when they abandoned the no defense, let's score as much as we can philosophy when Don Nelson left and Avery Johnson started pushing a defensive mindset. To act like Dallas got better because they did not re-sign Nash reflects a very superficial understanding of how the Mavs have shifted in philosophy over the last couple of years as well as the way Dirk has grown and improved on both sides of the ball.

Also, Phoenix became exponentially better once they did get Nash and embraced all out offense. Another way to look at this is to compare Nash and Billups. Billups was with several teams and got kicked around early in his career until he found his way to a team that embraced him and his style of play. For that reason, when a team suddenly increases in skill and talent the way the Suns have done you have to argue that Nash has been that force and thus always worthy of MVP consideration. Besides, it's the coaches and media that vote on this, and it's not like they don't send Shaq and Dirk plenty of love too.
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Old 02-24-07, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by theinswes View Post

think about this, how does an mvp get traded, and then the team he left becomes BETTER!?
they didnt get better because steve nash left. they got better because they got a coach who instilled defensive tenacity and a tougher mindset in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiallo1984 View Post
Dallas got better when they abandoned the no defense, let's score as much as we can philosophy when Don Nelson left and Avery Johnson started pushing a defensive mindset. To act like Dallas got better because they did not re-sign Nash reflects a very superficial understanding of how the Mavs have shifted in philosophy over the last couple of years as well as the way Dirk has grown and improved on both sides of the ball.

Also, Phoenix became exponentially better once they did get Nash and embraced all out offense. Another way to look at this is to compare Nash and Billups. Billups was with several teams and got kicked around early in his career until he found his way to a team that embraced him and his style of play. For that reason, when a team suddenly increases in skill and talent the way the Suns have done you have to argue that Nash has been that force and thus always worthy of MVP consideration. Besides, it's the coaches and media that vote on this, and it's not like they don't send Shaq and Dirk plenty of love too.
couldnt have said it better myself. and actually, i didnt!
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Old 02-24-07, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GM5K View Post
tainted by what? not winning a ring? i dont see KG with a ring on his finger either, and its hard for me to think of 10 better basketball players, ever.

but who knows exactly what hes talking about when he says "tainted". funny he would say that but not go into specifics...maybe he goes more into depth in the rest of the article...? really unprofessional IMO whether he explained it or not, anyway.

of course Nash takes the high road. always a class act. wouldnt it be funny if he said "well if my mvp's are tainted, then shaqs last ring is tainted because all he did was stand there while wade won him his revenge ring" shaq needs to grow up.
Just wondering, but when you say that you cant think of 10 better basketball players ever..how do you determine who is better? Championships, talent, leadership? That is why the MVP is so debateable is because it means most valuable player to their team, not the most talented player. If that were the case, players Kobe, Lebron, T-mac, Wade, Carmelo would win every single year. That is why Nash has won the last 2 years because whether he is the most talented or not, he does make his teammates alot better.
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Old 02-24-07, 12:32 PM
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Shaq is fat.
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Old 02-24-07, 12:36 PM
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that man never gives credit where it's due..
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Old 02-24-07, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiallo1984 View Post
Dallas got better when they abandoned the no defense, let's score as much as we can philosophy when Don Nelson left and Avery Johnson started pushing a defensive mindset. To act like Dallas got better because they did not re-sign Nash reflects a very superficial understanding of how the Mavs have shifted in philosophy over the last couple of years as well as the way Dirk has grown and improved on both sides of the ball.



Quote:
Also, Phoenix became exponentially better once they did get Nash and embraced all out offense. Another way to look at this is to compare Nash and Billups. Billups was with several teams and got kicked around early in his career until he found his way to a team that embraced him and his style of play. For that reason, when a team suddenly increases in skill and talent the way the Suns have done you have to argue that Nash has been that force and thus always worthy of MVP consideration. Besides, it's the coaches and media that vote on this, and it's not like they don't send Shaq and Dirk plenty of love too.
Amare and Marion are really good players. But they need a playmaker to be effective on the court offense-wise. I don't know if ppl recognized Marion's significant drops in numbers over several games that Nash was out. I know this because Marion is in one of my fantasy league. It is just unbelievable. Barbosa was stil doing great in scoring and assisting and giving a ball to Amare while Nash was out. Still he could not get Marion and other people involved enough. And Suns coul not find a way to win games.

I thinnk people really underestimate the value of PG who understands how to distribute the ball and the pace of the game. For example, Toronto is doing great right now and ppl are woowing over Bosh's scoring numbers. He is a really good player. Yet, big men always depend on guards giving him the ball at the right time. Especially when they depend on athelticism more than the half court skill sets like Tim Duncan, not that I undermine bosh's skill sets. But anyway, Bosh's athleticism, the ability to run the floor is also mixed with two PGs, TJ Ford and Jose Caldron, giving him the ball in open court at the right time when they run. TJ Ford and Jose Caldron are giving the assist numbers almost like 20 per game.

But anyway, Nash also exhibit the kind of leadership PHX young gys need on and off the court. And he has been really more vocal than ever on and off the court. If PHX is having some problems with guys not making shots, Nash would pick up scoring inside and outside. Otherwise, he goes for assists.

When I watch PHX game and Nash, it is just amazing how Nash really seems to understand the pace of the game. I have always supported Tony and loved him even though I do think he has a lot of rooms to improve on understanding the pace of the game and how to distribute the ball. But when you watch Nash, the comparison becomes much more clearer in terms of understanding the pace of the game.

PPl are high on DET and Chris Webber as DET are winning almost all of games since he got to DET. Yet, they seem to forget, DET was losing a lot of close games when Builliups were out of the game for a while.

I actually watched the game 6, Spurs vs Mavs in 2003, Western Conf Finals the other day on NBA TV. And I watched Nash closely. What's different from then to now to Nash in PHXX also is that now Nash never gives the ball up, unless it for assists or giving the ball to guys who can do something about it in position at the right time. If Nash passes the ball to guys and they can't do something about it, Nash gets the ball right back again or give the ball to another playmaker like Boris Diaw who is more assist minded minded guy.

But in Dallas, there were so many offensive weapons, like Finley, Van Excel, Dirk that Nash would give the ball up and at times would just watch standing what the other guys would do. And plus, Nash would be exposed on defensive end. Yet, in PHX system, guys like Marion would come for the help defense on the other end and Dallas has been a defensive liability team the whole personnel.

I think Nash personally has gotten better even after he left Dallas, in terms of understanding better the pace of the game. But he also seemed to have gotten better in scoring at the rim. He can't do like Tony spectacular at the rim. Yet, in slow motion, somehow Nash gets the ball into the basket, ziggy zaggy, somhow at times like Manu-like. Plus, doing pick and roll games with guys like Amare helps anytime to get into the lane when the defense has to scramble on who to pick up. Pick the posion, Amare or Nash? Of course, never underestimate the running game with guys that are so atheletic. Tony can't do that much here, at least as much as Nash can do. Plus, I think Nash had to get better in terms of court vision, running games and distributing the ball to atheletic guys, when this whole PHX system solely depends on Nash for setting the pace for the games the whole entire game, all the time, all season long.

Last edited by manu 008; 02-24-07 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 02-24-07, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiallo1984 View Post
Dallas got better when they abandoned the no defense, let's score as much as we can philosophy when Don Nelson left and Avery Johnson started pushing a defensive mindset. To act like Dallas got better because they did not re-sign Nash reflects a very superficial understanding of how the Mavs have shifted in philosophy over the last couple of years as well as the way Dirk has grown and improved on both sides of the ball.

Also, Phoenix became exponentially better once they did get Nash and embraced all out offense. Another way to look at this is to compare Nash and Billups. Billups was with several teams and got kicked around early in his career until he found his way to a team that embraced him and his style of play. For that reason, when a team suddenly increases in skill and talent the way the Suns have done you have to argue that Nash has been that force and thus always worthy of MVP consideration. Besides, it's the coaches and media that vote on this, and it's not like they don't send Shaq and Dirk plenty of love too.
you brought up some very good points. the billups comparison is perfect, and i must agree on several of your arguments. i love watching nash play because he makes the offense run at such an incredibly smooth and pretty to watch. he's also a real class act, and gets love from everyone. in a completely unrelated note, how do the dallas fans NOT boo steve nash for walking away for a bigger paycheck, yet unmercilessly jeer finley, who was cut? probably just a reflection of the dallas fans, haha.

no doubt nash was deserving of an mvp trophy, i guess i'm just one of those guys who thought dirk was mvp last year. nash vs shaq, they rewarded the winning and gave it to nash. nash vs dirk, they didn't reward the winning, and gave it to nash. the pistons got their reward by having 4 all stars. the mavs only had dirk. tainted is terrible word to describe the situation, it's really just based on the opinion of certain ppl in the media who get to vote. jason kidd never won the mvp after taking his team to the finals 2 yrs straight and completely transforming one of the worst franchises in the league to a contender. someone has to lose out, and it's a shame that kidd never got one. ppl said duncan didn't deserve it over kidd, so i guess it's just the same thing here, w/ opinions really.

in that same light, at least dirk will get his this year - he deserves it. as big a spurs fan as i am, i just gotta give credit where credit is due. ideally, he'll win his mvp cuz he deserves it, then we'll have another great series with em and beat in game 7 in dallas infront of all their fans.

Last edited by theinswes; 02-24-07 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 02-24-07, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theinswes View Post
you brought up some very good points. the billups comparison is perfect. i love watching nash play because he makes the offense run at such an incredibly smooth and pretty to watch. he's also a real class act, and gets love from everyone. in a completely unrelated note, how do the dallas fans NOT boo steve nash for walking away for a bigger paycheck, yet unmercilessly jeer finley, who was cut? probably just a reflection of the dallas fans, haha.

no doubt nash was deserving of an mvp trophy, i guess i'm just one of those guys who thought dirk was mvp last year. nash vs shaq, they rewarded the winning and gave it to nash. nash vs dirk, they didn't reward the winning, and gave it to nash. the pistons got their reward by having 4 all stars. the mavs only had dirk. tainted is not a good word to describe the situation, it's really just based on the opinion of certain ppl in the media who get to vote. but i do believe it shoulda been dirk, for stepping up his game to another level. still, he'll get his due when he wins it this year - he deserves it. as big a spurs fan as i am, i just gotta give credit where credit is due. ideally, he'll win his mvp cuz he deserves it, then we'll have another great series with em and beat in game 7 in dallas infront of all their fans.
I don't know that Nash necessarily left for the bigger paycheck only. That I don't agree. The truth of the matter is that Mavs has never been able to get over the hump with Nash and Dirk all those years in POs. And they had a severly harsh heart breaker when they lost the first round to Sacto, when they thought they should have gotten at least to Semi or Finals in WC, when they had all those offensive weapons like Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker.

The fact of the matter that was reflected on paychek issue was that PHX was going to soley rely on Nash distributing the ball and set the pace of the game for young athletic guys they have. While Dallas was, Cuban especially, concerend about Nash's age and health and thought that Nash was not worth the dollars that PHX was going to spend the money on for 5 more years at his age (5 years, right?), PHX actually didn't mind Nash's age on their squad given that they would depend on Nash's age and experience to lead and develop young guys that they had. So, it was how Nash was being appreciated or was going to be appreciated in Mavs or by Mark Cuban vs PHX. Nash was a restriced FA or something and Cuban was not going to match PHX's huge dollars on Nash or something as far as I know.

Plus, I do think that if Mavs had Nash, and if they got to Finals vs Heat, Mavs could have won too. Terry is great and he also did a lot of damage to us. But in Finals, Dirk certainly panicked at the end of the game. Especially game 5 (If I remmeber correctly), when Dirk missed that important Free Throw. When did we ever see Dirk miss the FT. I wish he could have missed against us. Please. The problem for Mavs at that time was that when Dirk panicked, he could not rely on anybody, not on new guy like Jason Terry, when Dirk has relied on Nash all those years before. It is more evident when Mavs lost that Sefmifinals against PHX in 2005. In game 6 when Nash made 3 to send the game to OT in Dallas when Jason Terry did not contest the shot. When it got to OT, Dirk was so mad and beside himself, in OT, he was trying to do it all by himself and could not score and forced shots and missed tons of them and finally lost to PHX. How can the new guy, who just made a big mistake in not contesting Nash's 3, contain or calm Dirk down in those kinds of situations? So, in that regard, I think Mavs certainly could have used Nash as Dirk still was lackins on leadership in those kinds of situations.

It also should be noted however that Dirk is developing fast with Nash out. He is recording career-high in assists this season. He is developing into more all-around guy, even blocking some shots and coming for the help defense in rotation and distributing the ball to perimeter guys or to Erick Dampier when the D focused on him or to Terry and drving the ball to the baskets when needed. The other day, Dirk had recorded 8 assist game. 8!!! Did we ever know he can pass the ball? That was also the dimension of the game that Dirk was lacking when Heat was doubling him in Finals.

I think that Dirk was great last season. But it probably would have been a little premature to give the MVP to Dirk even though Mavs had the best record, although I would not have minded Dirk getting MVP last season. But Dirk was still never the guy who would make his teammates better that much last season.

But seeing how Dirk is this season, this season's MVP is Dirk I am sure. He is picking up assists, bloks and defense and scoring and FG% and would pick it up in close games when needed. This season, Dirk is refusing to let his team to lose in any sistuation and do what it takes. I don't know if ppl knows that Mavs is not always winning by a large margin. They also had a lot of close games like we did this season. And every time Mavs would trail at the end, especially those things happen more on the road of course, Dirk would come up big and display the incredible performance like he did against Houston the other day. Scary especially more so when now Dirk also can make his teammates better. Wouldn't you say? Like TD did in game 7 vs DET in 2005?

Yet, Mavs is winning all those close games and Spurs have lost all those close games. I think Spurs record is terrible when the scoring margin is small. So, that is why Spurs have not won much against Elite teams in West much this season so far. I don't think anybody is stepping up big in those situations much so far. Somebody has to go for it. But the problem we have is that Pop is telling Tony to distribute more and Tony is confused when he has to pass the ball or go for his shots. TD is trying to involve teammates and our perimeter shooting has been inconsistent in Finley and Bowen and Horry. And Manu has had not had a success like he did in 2005, being able to finish at the rim or perimeter shooting. But it is a just matter of finding the right mix of mid sets I think, to understand what to do in games. I think we are still trying to find that, whereas Mavs have found one already. And PHX always already knows that one. Just give the ball to Nash and follow him.

Last edited by manu 008; 02-24-07 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 02-24-07, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later View Post
Hold on....might that be a misleading TITLE by the Suns beat writer?

There is no direct quote from Shaq here.
*clicks link*

To be named later is onto something here, people.

That "article" doesn't have a direct quote from O'Neal AT ALL. Not one. The news might be a blurb, sure, but I would think that a direct quote from O'Neal would be far more damaging than someone's second-hand re-telling. Wouldn't you say?

Don't get it twisted though. In the past, Shaquille O'Neal has been guilty of speaking off the cuff and saying some pretty ignorant things (i.e. "ching chong" Yao Ming welcome). But I'd like to know what Shaq said word for word. Because I sure as hell am not trusting the hearsay of an Arizona beat writer.
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Old 02-24-07, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Spurs Brazil View Post
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._mvps_tainted/
O'Neal Calls Nash's MVPs 'Tainted'
24th February, 2007 - 5:43 am
Arizona Republic -
Shaquille O'Neal considers Steve Nash's MVP awards to be "tainted."

After Miami's loss in Dallas on Thursday, O'Neal was engaged in an MVP discussion as it related to the Mavericks' Dirk Nowitzki. O'Neal questioned how the media picks MVPs and said the award has been "tainted" the past two seasons. O'Neal was the runner-up for Nash's first MVP in 2005.

O'Neal repeated "tainted" references to reporters.

"I don't know what to say," Nash said. "I'm sorry he feels that way." [READ]
Very disrepectful...

Edit... damn beat writers...
I guess the way shaq talks crap, he probably figured no one would figure it out.
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Old 02-24-07, 06:31 PM
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Shaq talking "taint" reminds me of Phil talking "asterisk."
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Old 02-24-07, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by To be named later View Post
It's like I have always said......that bossu is a very smart and intuitive person.



I would like to also know what Shaq said, word for word.

The articcle says, and I quote: "O'Neal repeated "tainted" references to reporters"

Reporters, as in, plural, as in, more than one. And surely at least one of these reporters would have shaq's voice on either tape or video. And surely more reporters than just his one Suns beat writer would be making the "tainted" claim, and they would not be giving a second hand retelling, they would be giving the actual word for word quote.
he said mumble mumblemumble dirk mumble mbmble mubme mvp mumble hambuger mubmle.
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Old 02-24-07, 11:38 PM
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I do think the media overhyped Nash for his first MVP. Marc Stein was the worst of all of them in doing so. The funny thing is that this is Nash's best season but he probably won't win it this year.
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Old 02-25-07, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invisiblekid09 View Post
that man never gives credit where it's due..
thats a page taken from coach Phil Jackson's psychological philosophy: if you lose...blame it on something other than yourself....or never give credit when credit is due...

the list goes on
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Old 02-25-07, 02:28 AM
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- On whether he had visited the Parthenon during his visit to Greece
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  #22  
Old 02-25-07, 04:11 AM
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Man, doesn't he know that words like that only make him sound petty and jealous? :richb
I think Shaq is right dude.
Nash didn't deserved MVP award, especially b2b. He didn't have very effective stats to be 2 times MVP. In my opinion LeBron should win it last year.
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  #23  
Old 02-25-07, 07:09 AM
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Shaq needs to be heard and will always speak with that intent agaree or not with him.. he sometimes makes us sit up and take notice.
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Old 02-25-07, 07:58 AM
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Looks like Shaq was smacking both Nash AND Nowitzki ... what a lump of lard!

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/16781747.htm
Shaq shoots, misses on MVP
By Jennifer Floyd Engel
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

DALLAS -- Do not expect Shaq to sport his "Dirk for MVP" T-shirt anytime soon.

He seemed rather ambivalent about the campaign Thursday.

"I don't know," he deadpanned when asked if Dirk Nowitzki was a legit MVP contender. "I don't know how y'all give the award. That award has been tainted the last couple of years."

There was a mild attempt on my part to prod Shaq to define tainted. It failed. The interview traveled down typical, humorous paths, as usually happens with Shaq, until he stood to leave, looked back at me and started again with the tainted talk.

"Tainted. You know what I mean by tainted, you are a smart young lady," Shaq said.

I am. Or I can be. Sometimes. OK, every couple of weeks, I have a semi-smart thought. This must be my February moment because I know what tainted means without a dictionary.

And I also know the only thing tainted is the prevalent NBA thinking that the MVP must be a ball hog who sells a bunch of shoes and becomes a SportsCenter mainstay.

Dirk is not your Shaq Daddy's MVP, but he is a worthy contender. Just as Steve Nash was in 2005, regardless of what Shaq thinks.

This is what Shaq really meant by tainted. He meant the voters screwed up by giving the MVP to Nash rather than him in 2005, that Steve was not a prototypical winner, that Steve was not the best player in the league.

And while Shaq did not exactly say it Thursday, there will be many who believe an MVP for Dirk is likewise tainted.

This is not a racial thing, despite occasional jokes about Dirk being "The Other White MVP." This is a cred thing. Be honest: When you think of the best player in the NBA, you think LeBron and Kobe and D-Wade and Melo. They dominate the ball, the game, the headlines, the commercials.

What the league flirted with regarding Nash is the idea of the "V" in MVP -- what a guy means to his team and how he makes it better. It is on this concept Dirk would win the award this year, which is only slightly ironic because a couple of weeks ago D-Wade was questioning Dirk's Finals leadership.

In terms of trash talk, Shaq's was kind of lame. He was much better with his WNBA and Ericka cracks about Erick Dampier. Yet Wade's rip was much more personal. He was basically saying Dirk is not like us, and his "us" includes Jordan and Kobe and Bird.

These are the guys capable of putting a team on their shoulders and carrying them to a championship. He obviously does not think Dirk belongs in this group.

Do not think for a moment this does not bother Dirk.

Mavs coach Avery Johnson actually laughed when asked if little digs from peers actually matter. Of course, they do. When a player is ripped by another, he hears it and feels it and uses it -- hoping for the day when he can make the guy eat his words.

"I had a guy say the Spurs would never win a championship with me as point guard," Avery said.

Avery is friends with the guy now and did not want to call him out, but we will. He is Damon Stoudamire and, ooooh, did Mighty Mouse tick him off at the time, and it fed him.

"I think you should do that, you should try to prove your critics wrong," Avery said. "You should make people eat their words -- within the context of what makes your team better."

What this smart young lady knows for sure is Dirk eventually will, and there will be nothing tainted about it.

Jennifer Floyd Engel can be heard weekdays 9 a.m.-noon on The Little Ball of Hate Show on ESPN/103.3 FM.
Jennifer Floyd Engel, 817-390-7760 jenfloyd@star-telegram.com
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Old 02-25-07, 10:28 AM
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NAsh is overrated..one mvp was ok but no way was he a b2b MVP..not with all the talent on the Suns. If anything Kobe or LeBron should have won it last year...and their teams surprising runs in the playoffs backs up my argument.
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Old 02-25-07, 11:04 PM
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Shaq has 4 rings and the players on those 4 championship teams have 1 MVP combined, while Nash has 0 rings and 2 MVPs. Yeah that's logical.

If Nash wins three in a row they should just scrap the award.

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Old 02-26-07, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwhuxley View Post
Looks like Shaq was smacking both Nash AND Nowitzki ... what a lump of lard!

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/16781747.htm
Shaq shoots, misses on MVP
By Jennifer Floyd Engel
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

DALLAS -- Do not expect Shaq to sport his "Dirk for MVP" T-shirt anytime soon.

He seemed rather ambivalent about the campaign Thursday.

"I don't know," he deadpanned when asked if Dirk Nowitzki was a legit MVP contender. "I don't know how y'all give the award. That award has been tainted the last couple of years."

There was a mild attempt on my part to prod Shaq to define tainted. It failed. The interview traveled down typical, humorous paths, as usually happens with Shaq, until he stood to leave, looked back at me and started again with the tainted talk.

"Tainted. You know what I mean by tainted, you are a smart young lady," Shaq said.

I am. Or I can be. Sometimes. OK, every couple of weeks, I have a semi-smart thought. This must be my February moment because I know what tainted means without a dictionary.

And I also know the only thing tainted is the prevalent NBA thinking that the MVP must be a ball hog who sells a bunch of shoes and becomes a SportsCenter mainstay.

Dirk is not your Shaq Daddy's MVP, but he is a worthy contender. Just as Steve Nash was in 2005, regardless of what Shaq thinks.

This is what Shaq really meant by tainted. He meant the voters screwed up by giving the MVP to Nash rather than him in 2005, that Steve was not a prototypical winner, that Steve was not the best player in the league.

And while Shaq did not exactly say it Thursday, there will be many who believe an MVP for Dirk is likewise tainted.

This is not a racial thing, despite occasional jokes about Dirk being "The Other White MVP." This is a cred thing. Be honest: When you think of the best player in the NBA, you think LeBron and Kobe and D-Wade and Melo. They dominate the ball, the game, the headlines, the commercials.

What the league flirted with regarding Nash is the idea of the "V" in MVP -- what a guy means to his team and how he makes it better. It is on this concept Dirk would win the award this year, which is only slightly ironic because a couple of weeks ago D-Wade was questioning Dirk's Finals leadership.

In terms of trash talk, Shaq's was kind of lame. He was much better with his WNBA and Ericka cracks about Erick Dampier. Yet Wade's rip was much more personal. He was basically saying Dirk is not like us, and his "us" includes Jordan and Kobe and Bird.

These are the guys capable of putting a team on their shoulders and carrying them to a championship. He obviously does not think Dirk belongs in this group.

Do not think for a moment this does not bother Dirk.

Mavs coach Avery Johnson actually laughed when asked if little digs from peers actually matter. Of course, they do. When a player is ripped by another, he hears it and feels it and uses it -- hoping for the day when he can make the guy eat his words.

"I had a guy say the Spurs would never win a championship with me as point guard," Avery said.

Avery is friends with the guy now and did not want to call him out, but we will. He is Damon Stoudamire and, ooooh, did Mighty Mouse tick him off at the time, and it fed him.

"I think you should do that, you should try to prove your critics wrong," Avery said. "You should make people eat their words -- within the context of what makes your team better."

What this smart young lady knows for sure is Dirk eventually will, and there will be nothing tainted about it.

Jennifer Floyd Engel can be heard weekdays 9 a.m.-noon on The Little Ball of Hate Show on ESPN/103.3 FM.
Jennifer Floyd Engel, 817-390-7760 jenfloyd@star-telegram.com
LOL I remember Damon saying that, then the Spurs and Avery who hit all his 15 footers it seemed that series went to sweep that team. Most peole hate on Avery now in here, but he did it that year from about 15 and hit consistently and we ate them up with that help he gave us that year. I love that quote still, he used it and built on it and helped us win one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipmode Master View Post
NAsh is overrated..one mvp was ok but no way was he a b2b MVP..not with all the talent on the Suns. If anything Kobe or LeBron should have won it last year...and their teams surprising runs in the playoffs backs up my argument.
I agree to the fullest, he was not the MVP last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by highplainsspur View Post
Shaq talking "taint" reminds me of Phil talking "asterisk."
Yeah that too, you bot beat for the awared or title that year so you diss it and try to downplay it and discredit the other team or player. I think Kobe or Bron should have gotten it last year. The ONLY reason the Suns made it to the WCF last year was basically off of luck agianst LA and beating the Clippers in what 7??? The Spurs faced the Mavs, had the Spurs playd Phoenix in round two it was a wrap for them, period end of story. The Spurs and Dallas should have been the WCF, Stern even fixed those seedings after that mishap last year. The Suns went through an easy road to get there, well alot easier than the Spurs and Mavs did IMO. Kings last year were VERY tough, Lakers were not as tough last year, the Clippers were not the Mavs or Spurs by far, so they made it and he somehow deserved the MVP for that team? I think not last year.
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  #28  
Old 02-26-07, 04:11 AM
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Shaq took too many games out of the "company time", and suffered many injuries during regular seasons, otherwise he would have been MVP one or two times more.

IMO Nash was a weak MVP for the 2004/2005 season (however, he put something like 40 ppg / 20 apg stats in the PO's). Unfortunately, other candidates ware weak too. Shaq was the runner up, but he wasn't even Heat's best player that season.

On the other hand, in the 2005/2006 season while Nash deserved the award, even when it could have gone to Dirk too, any of the two deserved it. And by the way Dirk choked in the finals, it's good that the award has gone to Nash, because that would have made the MVP choice tainted.

Last edited by dunkman; 02-26-07 at 05:51 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-26-07, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mystic Soulja View Post
thats a page taken from coach Phil Jackson's psychological philosophy: if you lose...blame it on something other than yourself....or never give credit when credit is due...

the list goes on
Sounds like Mark Cuban to me also..
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  #30  
Old 02-28-07, 10:04 AM
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If Nash's MVP's are "tainted," then the process must be "tainted." Thus, all those who have earned MVPs previously (including Shaq) have "tainted" MVPs.

It goes without saying that MVPs, Oscars or job promotions have a political element to them. It doesn't make them or the process "tainted." It is what it is.

The MVP has never and will never be a strictly statistical award. Never. Nor should it.

Shaq's sharply decreasing "big dawg" status is obviously bothering the man. When you're the alpha dawg, you don't need to bark....everyone knows already.
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Last edited by Menudo Terremoto Williams; 02-28-07 at 10:06 AM.
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  #31  
Old 02-28-07, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwhuxley View Post
Looks like Shaq was smacking both Nash AND Nowitzki ... what a lump of lard!
i dunno, didn't seem like he said anything about dirk. he said he didn't know if dirk would be mvp b/c the process was tainted... which could also mean that he thinks dirk deserves it but won't get it cuz it's a messed up system, i guess. nosy reporters going round, asking players about an mvp on a team in a different conference, both championship contenders.

and i don't remember nash's 40/20 in the playoffs. in a game, i think, but it's not like he was averaging those numbers. he had guy on his team who put up 40+ against our team, a real stud. shawn marion is the do it all guy. joe johnson and richardson were there in '05, n then they got diaw and raja bell emerge. jason kidd never had that type of talent in phx or jersey (marion>rj, AMARE>>>>>k-mart). and what about in '03, who pushed the spurs and gave us a scare in the 1st round? amre (rookie), marion, and stephon marbury (tp says he's the hardest guy to guard for him).

but by being so out of sync w/ out nash tells just as much about the coaching as it does about steve nash. you have 2 freakishly athletic all-stars w/out nash and you struggle to win? maybe you adjust and say, we won't outscore em this game, let's tighten up the d w/ nash out. or hey, maybe run a play for marion, considering he has no plays for him.

i also grabbed this off a guy's blog on b-ball where he suggest steve nash is a system player benefitting in a system where all his skills are magnified and his weaknesses hidden. this is digressing from the mvp talk, but at the end of the day, doesn't it seem like ppl, esp. youngns are gonna consider nash better than kidd & payton b/c of his 2 mvps?

All-Star Apperances: Jason Kidd: 7, Steve Nash: 4

First and Second Team All-NBA Apprearances: Jason Kidd: 6 (Five First Team, 1 Second Team), Steve Nash: 2 (Both First Team)

All Defensive Team Selections: Jason Kidd: 8, Steve Nash: ZERO

Times leading the league in assists: Jason Kidd: 5, Steve Nash: 2

Finals Apperances: Jason Kidd: 2, Steve Nash: ZERO

Jason Kidd also ranks 3rd in all time tripple doubles, 7th all-time in total assists, 5th all-time in assists per game, 13th all-time in steals, and 11th all-time in steals per game.

http://jonesonthenba.blogspot.com/20...revisited.html

Last edited by theinswes; 02-28-07 at 10:45 AM.
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  #32  
Old 02-28-07, 12:50 PM
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AJ is a Popvich Prodogy and a great coach, and he is the reason why the Mavs are so much better. Nowitzky's remarkable improvement to a top 3 player in the league obviously has a lot to do with it as well. Dirk should win the MVP this year, in a runaway. He is the best player on the best team.

But Nash is probably the single most important player to his team in the league. No team wins more games because of one player than Phoenix.

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  #33  
Old 02-28-07, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Money4Nothing View Post
AJ is a Popvich Prodogy and a great coach, and he is the reason why the Mavs are so much better. Nowitzky's remarkable improvement to a top 3 player in the league obviously has a lot to do with it as well. Dirk should win the MVP this year, in a runaway. He is the best player on the best team.

But Nash is probably the single most important player to his team in the league. No team wins more games because of one player than Phoenix.

\
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At this point...I'd still say Nash. His team clearly goes nowhere without him, while I think the Mavs are a winning team without Dirk because of their remarkable depth. It's a unique situation because of what Nash offers the Suns' style of play.
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  #34  
Old 02-28-07, 06:33 PM
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i never really like to judge how good a player is by how the team plays without em. you're supposed to get worse when your best player's injured. the best teams will have players step up and try to fill the void as long as possible, the way t-mac has carried the rockets, let's say.

w/ out paul pierce the celtics dropped what, 18 straight? michael redd's injury ruined the playoff chances. dwyane wade, who which hasn't been completely healthy once, had them in the in the playoffs, but now he's out. or if lebron goes out, look who's left on that team. the suns still have very good players w/out steve nash. if you're a good team, you find ways to win, but ppl give the excuse that nash is so irreplaceable, but so are most of these other players.

all those players are just as valuable to their teams as steve nash is, so the focus shouldn't concern when they're not playing but focus mroe on when they do play - and dirk's easily the best player on the best team in the league this year.
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  #35  
Old 03-01-07, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by theinswes View Post
i never really like to judge how good a player is by how the team plays without em. you're supposed to get worse when your best player's injured. the best teams will have players step up and try to fill the void as long as possible, the way t-mac has carried the rockets, let's say.



w/ out paul pierce the celtics dropped what, 18 straight? michael redd's injury ruined the playoff chances. dwyane wade, who which hasn't been completely healthy once, had them in the in the playoffs, but now he's out. or if lebron goes out, look who's left on that team. the suns still have very good players w/out steve nash. if you're a good team, you find ways to win, but ppl give the excuse that nash is so irreplaceable, but so are most of these other players.



all those players are just as valuable to their teams as steve nash is, so the focus shouldn't concern when they're not playing but focus mroe on when they do play - and dirk's easily the best player on the best team in the league this year.
Agreed. But at the same time, does LeBron seem to really step up to get his team to win and some impressive wins so far? I think not. I think that is why LeBron is out of contention this season. Nobody is that much impressed with LeBron. At the same time, DW's case is not really fair because Shaq has been out. But DW has probably stepped up the most IMO in the league for his team, doing everything until his injury without Shaq but Heat has been just in a survival mode in EC. So, I am guessing the winning counts, whether he is getting some supports from other players or not.






Quote:
Originally Posted by theinswes View Post
i dunno, didn't seem like he said anything about dirk. he said he didn't know if dirk would be mvp b/c the process was tainted... which could also mean that he thinks dirk deserves it but won't get it cuz it's a messed up system, i guess. nosy reporters going round, asking players about an mvp on a team in a different conference, both championship contenders.

and i don't remember nash's 40/20 in the playoffs. in a game, i think, but it's not like he was averaging those numbers. he had guy on his team who put up 40+ against our team, a real stud. shawn marion is the do it all guy. joe johnson and richardson were there in '05, n then they got diaw and raja bell emerge. jason kidd never had that type of talent in phx or jersey (marion>rj, AMARE>>>>>k-mart). and what about in '03, who pushed the spurs and gave us a scare in the 1st round? amre (rookie), marion, and stephon marbury (tp says he's the hardest guy to guard for him).

but by being so out of sync w/ out nash tells just as much about the coaching as it does about steve nash. you have 2 freakishly athletic all-stars w/out nash and you struggle to win? maybe you adjust and say, we won't outscore em this game, let's tighten up the d w/ nash out. or hey, maybe run a play for marion, considering he has no plays for him.

i also grabbed this off a guy's blog on b-ball where he suggest steve nash is a system player benefitting in a system where all his skills are magnified and his weaknesses hidden. this is digressing from the mvp talk, but at the end of the day, doesn't it seem like ppl, esp. youngns are gonna consider nash better than kidd & payton b/c of his 2 mvps?

All-Star Apperances: Jason Kidd: 7, Steve Nash: 4

First and Second Team All-NBA Apprearances: Jason Kidd: 6 (Five First Team, 1 Second Team), Steve Nash: 2 (Both First Team)

All Defensive Team Selections: Jason Kidd: 8, Steve Nash: ZERO

Times leading the league in assists: Jason Kidd: 5, Steve Nash: 2

Finals Apperances: Jason Kidd: 2, Steve Nash: ZERO

Jason Kidd also ranks 3rd in all time tripple doubles, 7th all-time in total assists, 5th all-time in assists per game, 13th all-time in steals, and 11th all-time in steals per game.

http://jonesonthenba.blogspot.com/20...revisited.html
I just think it is not really fair that ppl talking about MVP in a hindsight, how they did in POs or whether they got the ring or not. If we want to talk about that MVP consideration under that standard, we would also have to question D Rob getting MVP (was it for 2 seasons?) and not being able to lead his team to the championship ring, even when Spurs had the best record at one time.

I watched this Houston Rocets championship run during one of their b2b championshp run (94? 95?) in NBA TV the othter day.

It was one of that year when DRob got the MVP award. The first game(?, I think it was) in POs, Houston vs Spurs, when DRob was awared with MVP award, Hakeem said to one of his teammates that that MVP award is mine, not DR's. And then Hakeem went on and burned DRob eventually, not only in that game but in that series and Houston Rockets went on and eventually got the ring.

Now, if you guys would like to talk about the regular season MVP in a hindsight, whether they got the ring or not, I wonder if any Spurs would want to question DRob's MVP award as well????

In terms of PO series success with Steve Nash as an MVP, I think PHX did pretty well. They just ran into very tough, experienced and good defensive (Especially transition wise) Spurs the first year, without Joe Johnson much of that series. And in the second year, I think they did pretty well without Amare and that was all due to Steve Nash. He stepped up for the challenge and led his team to 50+ wins during regular season still without Amare.

Now, I wonder if any other team could do that without one of all-star in his team. Can we do it without TD, Manu or Tony?

Now, I also think Kidd is that much talented and he might have deserved it too several years ago. And he might be able to do it with Suns' other guys in PHX just as well. But it is all just relative competition in a given year. You get awared when you get voted the most. Doesn't mean it is unanimous. There will always people who have different opinions. Kidd had his own competition at the time as well.

So, what Shaq is saying IMO makes him sound like a sore loser. If the process of selecting the MVP is tainted, that means the person who got MVP didn't deserve that. What does that mean? Does Shaq mean that it has always been tainted or is it recently tainted or what? He has his own MVP for several times before. It was not tainted then but it is tainted now? Then why do we do it anyway if it is not validated? Or why are there people, so many people, who are dazzled by Steve Nash (including me)?

I just think people at times underestimate Smarts and BB players vs Atheletes too much in this league. I think that is what Pop talked about at the Pop show too, when he talked about James White that he doesn't know how he would turn out as a BB player.

There is no doubt that LeBron James is the most freakish atheletes ever we see these days. Cavs is in one of top EC teams right now. And LeBron's numbers, although not better than last season or freakish, they are still good. But nobody is talking about LeBron this season, compared to the last season. There is no doubt that Cavs is in anyway winning form if they didn't have LeBron in any shape or form or whatever. But it is not just the impact of the player to that team that deserves MVP award in the league. It is that player's impact that leads to dazzling winnings as well.

This season, the best player has been DWade. Whatever it was. Stats and his impact for his team and all. But what people would talk about MVP in the league is Dirk and Nash. The way Suns and Mavs kept dazzling winning streaks throught the season.

I just don't understand why people don't understand every team in the league has all-stars and their own MVPs on their team. We have 3 all stars on our team. And yet we could not keep the winning record like Suns and Mavs. We can talk about supporting cast or depth or whatever. But it is clear that nobody has stepped up like Dirk or Nash this season so far to keep his team from losing and consistently.

And if we want to talk about stats in MVP consideration, I don't know what should be really considered. Because IMO stats don't tell the whole story. Is scoring more important like Gilbert, or blocks or Rebs numbers or across the categories or what not???

Without Steve Nash for several games, Amare put up like 30 or 40 ppg and all others picked up scoring, especially like Barbosa, picking up scoring and assist numbers and Suns still could not win. I am one of those people who are really mesmerzied by how Nash controls the pace of the game, how he involves his teammates and how he directs the execution as a floor general and all that. I don't know people noticed how much that freakish atelete Marion's numbers all went down significantly when Nash was out, even if they were just for several games, all across the categories.

Last edited by manu 008; 03-01-07 at 12:00 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-01-07, 12:23 PM
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I have to admit that I was a huge Nash hater during his first MVP year. I am a huge fan of defense, (and prefer froncourt guys to guards). Therefore, I argued against his worthiness as an MVP candidate. BUT, I have seen the light. Steve Nash is a hell of a basketball player. He has gotten better every year he has played for Phoenix (just imagine if he started his career with them). Not only has he improved his weaknesses (like the matodor defense he was famous for two years ago), but he has become a once in history type of player because of the fact that he is continually improving his strenghts.

I guess I'm not really adding anything that substantial to this debate, but I don't want to be like once of those cocky sportswriters for espn or si who can say whatever the heck they want, then act like they never said anything when it turns our they are wrong. (For examples: see Rose Bowl, 2006). So there it is. I was wrong. Nash is amazing and deserved is MVPs
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  #37  
Old 03-01-07, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pollackj View Post
(just imagine if he started his career with them)
actually, he did. he was originally drafted by phoenix and the fans had booed the draft pick selection because he was relatively unknown. he probably wouldve gotten more playing time in his first stint in phoenix, but he was backing up these guys named jason kidd and kevin johnson...
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  #38  
Old 03-01-07, 12:57 PM
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I'm not sure if Nash's game has peaked higher than Kidd's, what's for sure is that he peaked when the best NBA players have past their prime, are slowed by injuries, have lost good part of the season due to injuries, are not yet veterans to receive serious consideration or play in horrible teams. It will be interesting to see what happens this season.
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  #39  
Old 03-01-07, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by To be named later View Post

Reporters, as in, plural, as in, more than one. And surely at least one of these reporters would have shaq's voice on either tape or video. And surely more reporters than just his one Suns beat writer would be making the "tainted" claim, and they would not be giving a second hand retelling, they would be giving the actual word for word quote.
Surely you're not suggesting that a reporter would take something out of context just to stir stuff up.
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Old 03-01-07, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dunkman View Post
I'm not sure if Nash's game has peaked higher than Kidd's, what's for sure is that he peaked when the best NBA players have past their prime, are slowed by injuries, have lost good part of the season due to injuries, are not yet veterans to receive serious consideration or play in horrible teams. It will be interesting to see what happens this season.
nash's career is just very hard to compare to other players' careers, and its not always fair. who else in the history of basketball has peaked like this in their 30's?(OK i know, MJ. but hes MJ, and he was crazy before his 30's too) hes a very unique basketball player and its a unique situation with whats happened with him and the MVP's. hes kinda changed what it means to be an MVP. some people like it, some dont.

i think its great what hes done for the league. it paves the way for guys like chris paul and deron williams. gotta love these guys that will almost always defer to others, but if they are shooting it, theyre shooting a great field goal %. its an amazing and underrated thing. i think i can see CP getting an MVP before his career is done.

Last edited by GM5K; 03-01-07 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 03-01-07, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GM5K View Post
nash's career is just very hard to compare to other players' careers, and its not always fair. who else in the history of basketball has peaked like this in their 30's?(OK i know, MJ. but hes MJ, and he was crazy before his 30's too) hes a very unique basketball player and its a unique situation with whats happened with him and the MVP's. hes kinda changed what it means to be an MVP. some people like it, some dont.

i think its great what hes done for the league. it paves the way for guys like chris paul and deron williams. gotta love these guys that will almost always defer to others, but if they are shooting it, theyre shooting a great field goal %. its an amazing and underrated thing. i think i can see CP getting an MVP before his career is done.
I totally agree. I think it is a shame that Kidd didn't get his MVP when he had a chance before. But I guess it was all in the context of relative competition and perception.

What Nash and his MVP awards really meant to League is that how important the PG and Gs are, who see the floor, find teammates, who knows the pace of the game, how to control the pace, pull or push, again.

I think Hornet's case is just amazing. Just look at 2 or 3 weeks ago, it looked like Hornets were out of PO contention, plagued by the injury. And they were so desperate that they picked up Devin Brown, who Spurs didn't even think about picking up, who was out of the league for a while. Now, when they get Paul back and West's comback also helps...that they are now in PO contention in a blink of eye. When did that happen?

When you look at Paul's game, you just know this kid is special. He knows how to control the pace of the game. And he is making Tyson Chandler the scorer. Passing the ball at the right time right on money on the run, with one hand, nippy, and guys like Tyson who was more of an atheletes than skilled BB players are benefitting from it.
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  #42  
Old 03-02-07, 02:45 AM
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I'm not sure if the EFF is correct. Nash with 18.9 PPG, 11.8 APG and 3.3 PRG should stand much higher than Nowitzki with 25.4 PPG 9.6 RPG and 3.2 APG. One assisit means 2 or 3 points for the team, while one RPG only means another possesion for the team with only around 50% probability for the 2 or 3 point play.

The difference in the standings between the Mavs and the Suns is not definitive. It's only few games and I wouldn't say that Nowitzki is 100% sure to win the MVP this year.
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  #43  
Old 03-02-07, 02:56 AM
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Posters should always distinguish between (1) who they think will win and (2) who they think should win.

(1) = predicting how the voters (beat writers, ESPN clowns, radio and TV announcers) will vote.
(2) = expressing your own ideas about what the MVP entails, and ranking players accordingly.

Who actually wins depends on the voters. If they are unwilling to give Nash 3 in a row, then Nowitzki may win even if most people think he is less deserving.

As for Shaq, he should just STFU. He's made his money. He's way on the downside of his career. He's Hall-bound. Let other people have their due. And stop spreading his conceit to teammates like DWade (who should have STFU about Dirk).
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  #44  
Old 03-02-07, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bnwhuxley View Post
Posters should always distinguish between (1) who they think will win and (2) who they think should win.

(1) = predicting how the voters (beat writers, ESPN clowns, radio and TV announcers) will vote.
(2) = expressing your own ideas about what the MVP entails, and ranking players accordingly.

Who actually wins depends on the voters. If they are unwilling to give Nash 3 in a row, then Nowitzki may win even if most people think he is less deserving.

As for Shaq, he should just STFU. He's made his money. He's way on the downside of his career. He's Hall-bound. Let other people have their due. And stop spreading his conceit to teammates like DWade (who should have STFU about Dirk).
From what I have seen so far this season, I don't know if Dirk would be considered less deserving when he gets MVP. Earlier in the season, I thought for sure nobody was up to par with Nash. Nash has made a lot of splashes in a lot of games, picking up whatever the team needed to win the game. If his teammates were not shooting well, he would shoot his team back on the track or he would make very clutch shots, like that famous Nets game and the game vs Pistons at the end of last year.

But then, Dirk is really picking up. Sometimes he would score unbelievably or he almost recorded the triple double the other day too, scoring, rebs and assists. Or he would make those clutch shots at the end of the game, not letting his team to lose. Like that one he made several shots against us in our last game that Mavs won at our home.

Shaq should talk not with mouth but with his play. If Shaq gets his team on PO contention undoubtedly without D Wade and makes Heat keep winning, then he has something to say then. Not now IMO when he missed almost or more than half of the season and his team is hanging on by thread for PO seed.
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