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  #1  
Old 02-19-07, 08:23 AM
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Ginobili-Kirilenko

I was watching the all-star game yesterday and turkish reporter said that there is an interesting trade rumour that involves ginobili and kirilenko.GM's are in talks about that in Vegas.Has anyone heard about that?
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Old 02-19-07, 08:25 AM
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No way! I don't think Pop would pull the trigger on that one.
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Old 02-19-07, 08:35 AM
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This is probably the source....a fantasyland pie-in-the-sky board, where folks plug players into a salary cap calculator....

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=628232
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Old 02-19-07, 09:00 AM
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I think this city would riot if we traded gino...
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Old 02-19-07, 10:39 AM
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dude no way..hell would literally freeze over
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  #6  
Old 02-19-07, 11:06 AM
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Hmmm, trade a fiery and proven competitor who is playing outstanding ball this season and has shown he is capable of taking over playoff games in crunch time for a disgruntled (albeit very talented) and overpaid defensive specialist who has basically nothing on his playoff resume and is performing far below expectations.

Utah would love that trade. Pop, not so much.
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Old 02-19-07, 11:46 AM
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If this happens I'll travel all the way to SA and set the Front Office on fire.
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Old 02-19-07, 12:12 PM
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For the sake of argument..... for this trade to work, who else do we give to match salaries?
Ginobili = $8.25mil
Kirilenko = $12.3mil

Keep in mind Beno only makes $900,000
If we give up an All-Star plus another player would we get back a draft pick also?
Their draft picks should be side-by-side with our own... or possibly New York's 2010 Lottery pick? I know it's a long way off... but I don't see New York dropping draft spots in the near future, or us rising (with bad records).

2007 first round draft pick from New York
New York’s own 2007 1st round pick to Utah via Phoenix (top 24 protected in the 2007 Draft, top 23 protected in the 2008 Draft, top 22 protected in 2009 and unprotected in the 2010 Draft). [New York – Phoenix, 1/5/2004 and then Phoenix – Utah, 2/19/2004]

In any case.... I would like Kirilenko, but I don't want to give up Ginobili unless they offered us something we couldn't refuse....... oh, and Kirilenko stands to make $17.8mil in 10/11 which makes this whole trade scenario pointless
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Old 02-19-07, 12:49 PM
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don't waste your time

why do you guys even waste your time? M.G. ain't going anywhere.......ever. Go on to the next topic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by StNick2261 View Post
For the sake of argument..... for this trade to work, who else do we give to match salaries?
Ginobili = $8.25mil
Kirilenko = $12.3mil

Keep in mind Beno only makes $900,000
If we give up an All-Star plus another player would we get back a draft pick also?
Their draft picks should be side-by-side with our own... or possibly New York's 2010 Lottery pick? I know it's a long way off... but I don't see New York dropping draft spots in the near future, or us rising (with bad records).

2007 first round draft pick from New York
New York’s own 2007 1st round pick to Utah via Phoenix (top 24 protected in the 2007 Draft, top 23 protected in the 2008 Draft, top 22 protected in 2009 and unprotected in the 2010 Draft). [New York – Phoenix, 1/5/2004 and then Phoenix – Utah, 2/19/2004]

In any case.... I would like Kirilenko, but I don't want to give up Ginobili unless they offered us something we couldn't refuse....... oh, and Kirilenko stands to make $17.8mil in 10/11 which makes this whole trade scenario pointless
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Old 02-19-07, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlesvaldez View Post
why do you guys even waste your time? M.G. ain't going anywhere.......ever. Go on to the next topic.
Hey.... my time is MINE to waste!!!.... I know he's not going anywhere and I never said I wanted him to go. But don't ever tell me what NOT to talk about.......ever. Go on to the next topic.
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  #11  
Old 02-19-07, 01:14 PM
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not gonna happen
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Old 02-19-07, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs817 View Post
I think this city would riot if we traded gino...
I have 1970's Madison riot experience, so I will be the first one down to help.
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Old 02-19-07, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesR View Post
Don't kid yourself. If the right deal came along, Manu would be gone.

But this sure as hell isn't it.

The 'right deal' probably wouldn't come along because the only players the Spurs would want to trade for Manu aren't going to be traded.
I would like to think that the FO would at least listen. IMO there should only be two untouchables on this team, Duncan and Parker. Duncan for obvious reasons - franchise big man, one of the best ever, etc. Parker for the fact that he has youth on his side and his game continues to evolve and improve. 2nd All-Star appearance in a guard heavy Western Conference. The sky should be the limit for this guy. Manu has not improved since the breakout 2005 season. If the Iceman could get traded, Manu Ginobili damn sure can.
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  #14  
Old 02-19-07, 08:01 PM
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I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I still think Tim is the only untradeable. He traded Malik (FAN FAV), and before you say I am comparing, I am not. I am just saying that even Manu is tradeable. I don't think or want it to happen, but the right deal comes about........


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Old 02-19-07, 08:08 PM
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Pop is so afraid of Athenea...

Manu's not going anywhere...
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  #16  
Old 02-19-07, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MomBear View Post


Pop is so afraid of Athenea...

Manu's not going anywhere...
Obviously not toooooooo afraid because he put him on the bench againt to come off for a spark Something she literally had a fit over and nearly broke down these boards posting after he did it in the 05 playoffs, although we won the GAME . Sorry ATh had to bring that one up again.
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Old 02-19-07, 08:20 PM
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ok... don't expect to hide behind me when she comes after you RZ....
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  #18  
Old 02-19-07, 10:17 PM
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Even if the Spurs went back to the losing days - we would wanfr Manu as he is the ONLY PASSION that this team has!
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  #19  
Old 02-19-07, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesR View Post
Just to clarify my point.

Manu would only be traded if a team offered a Kobe/LeBron/Wade/T-Mac or a Top 5 lottery pick.
No, the Spurs would turn all those trades down. A team would have to give up two first team all-NBA players for Manu.

You really think Manu is in the same league as those players? Manu is great but get realistic. He's not even a regular all-star. Manu for AK47 is close to equal value for anyone who is being objective. Assuming both are healthy, I'd rate Manu higher by a small margin because his game his more complete. AK47 is a dominant defensive player when healthy.

That said, I don't see how the Spurs would be improving themselves with the trade unless they have some other deal in the works as well.

Last edited by maldoror; 02-20-07 at 03:19 AM.
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  #20  
Old 02-19-07, 10:35 PM
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If we trade Manu, i would love for him to go to Phoenix. I can only imagine the type of numbers he would have sharing the back court w/Nash.

For those that think that TP can offer more to the Spurs only based on age and room for improvement, just wait to post season and he'll be looking for a team mate like Manu to save the day when he can no longer penetrate. Oh I forgot...he can get that form Finley, Barry to create like Manu right?

The only untouchable is TD.
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  #21  
Old 02-20-07, 12:51 AM
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Kirilenko was an all star, however, there are several points that reduce his value. He had an injury that sidelined him almost a complete season, he has issues with Sloan and the Utah wants to move him, this year is his worst statistically since he joined the NBA, and his contract is horrendous for what he produces.
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  #22  
Old 02-20-07, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldoror View Post
Manu is great but get realistic. He's not even a regular all-star.

i dont care about the debate either way...i just hate when folks view Manu this way....he is not even a regular allstar you say....Manu is an allstar in so many ways its ridiculous...he just happens to play with Tim...
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Old 02-20-07, 11:43 AM
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none can take away from manu what manu is...
He is a winner and he has wont it all.
If he has bad night with a 1 of 8 from the field, he surly has a 5 steal, 9 rebounds, or 8 assists.
I mean he always has another ways to contribute. No like most of player that when shots are not falling they dissapear and are useless.
And I agree, if he is playin along Nash, it will be a sort of perfect backcourt. He will have more impresive numbers with a real pg distributing the ball.
But manu wouldn't care numbers anyway, he does wherever it takes for win.
We should be very proud to have this unique player in the history of the game.
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  #24  
Old 02-20-07, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Manu is great but get realistic. He's not even a regular all-star.
On any other team, Manu is an All-star and frequent tripple double.

manu rarely plays more than 30 minutes.

Manu brings things that not even the best players in the league bring.

Remember, this guy has a Gold Metal and 2 NBA championships. None of those are won without him. Period.
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  #25  
Old 02-20-07, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryhn View Post
On any other team, Manu is an All-star and frequent tripple double.

manu rarely plays more than 30 minutes.

Manu brings things that not even the best players in the league bring.

Remember, this guy has a Gold Metal and 2 NBA championships. None of those are won without him. Period.
Do you really think Manu gets more than 30 minutes on another team? I sure don't. I think if Manu could physically handle 35 minutes a game he'd be playing it here.

Manu's kind of in a catch-22 all-star wise where it's his maximum effort and willingness to sacrifice his body that makes his game all-star caliber, but it's those exact same traits which require that his minutes get limited to where he can't put up all-star stats.
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  #26  
Old 02-20-07, 12:51 PM
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So if manu has not good phisical conditions for playin more than 30 min... Why is he playing 31min per game on the b2b? That shows he is capable to play a lot more min than he plays right now.
Manu can play at least 35 min with a phoenix team and make 23 pts or more.
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  #27  
Old 02-20-07, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryhn View Post
On any other team, Manu is an All-star and frequent tripple double.

manu rarely plays more than 30 minutes.
There's a reason he plays 28 minutes a game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotes_geek View Post
Do you really think Manu gets more than 30 minutes on another team? I sure don't. I think if Manu could physically handle 35 minutes a game he'd be playing it here.
Exactly.

Manu plays 28 minutes because Pop thinks it's it's not good for the team for him to play more than that. That's one of the reasons he's doesn't have the same trade value as the elite players in the league in the league who can log big minutes and still be effective. Manu would need to be able to handle 35-39 minutes a game and play at a high level to be considered among the elite of the league. I doubt he would go to another team and start playing 39 minutes a game like the Kobe's and Wade's of the league. If he could do that effectively Pop would be doing it. Pop isn't playing him 28 minutes a game because he has more talented players to put on the floor. More minutes for Manu would reduce his effectiveness.

Last edited by maldoror; 02-20-07 at 01:36 PM.
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  #28  
Old 02-20-07, 02:03 PM
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I really don't think Pop really knows how to use him and I do think Manu can play a few more minutes than he is now (32 mpg). Manu hasn't really said anything but he's hinted for a few more minutes in some of the interviews I've heard. Instead his minutes this year are the lowest they have been and the Manu off the bench thing is getting crazy. I know Pop says he does it to bring energy but Barry was doing a good job of doing it so maybe it would be interesting to see what he could do on another team. I actually think he could be an awesome player for another team.
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  #29  
Old 02-20-07, 02:12 PM
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Manu's already an awesome player on this team with the minutes he's already getting. Come May and June we're going to be glad he wasn't playing more in January and February.
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Old 02-20-07, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzarector7 View Post
Obviously not toooooooo afraid because he put him on the bench againt to come off for a spark Something she literally had a fit over and nearly broke down these boards posting after he did it in the 05 playoffs, although we won the GAME . Sorry ATh had to bring that one up again.
:richb
But in the long run I was right
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With 26 points on 4 of 4 shots from distance in only 20 minutes of PT. Efficient eviceration.
Wolves' fan: ginobili vs. the wolves is like he's just kind of laughing to himself all game...kind of like he thinks it's cute that they're trying to play basketball.
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Old 02-20-07, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MomBear View Post
ok... don't expect to hide behind me when she comes after you RZ....
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NO D, NO RING!!!!
With 26 points on 4 of 4 shots from distance in only 20 minutes of PT. Efficient eviceration.
Wolves' fan: ginobili vs. the wolves is like he's just kind of laughing to himself all game...kind of like he thinks it's cute that they're trying to play basketball.
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  #32  
Old 02-20-07, 02:39 PM
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hey welcome back Athenea
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  #33  
Old 02-20-07, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATHENEA View Post
:richb
But in the long run I was right
Aww, now he has a black eye to go with his little spot....lol
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  #34  
Old 02-21-07, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldoror View Post
There's a reason he plays 28 minutes a game.



Exactly.

Manu plays 28 minutes because Pop thinks it's it's not good for the team for him to play more than that. That's one of the reasons he's doesn't have the same trade value as the elite players in the league in the league who can log big minutes and still be effective. Manu would need to be able to handle 35-39 minutes a game and play at a high level to be considered among the elite of the league. I doubt he would go to another team and start playing 39 minutes a game like the Kobe's and Wade's of the league. If he could do that effectively Pop would be doing it. Pop isn't playing him 28 minutes a game because he has more talented players to put on the floor. More minutes for Manu would reduce his effectiveness.
i disagree...Gino is a warrior and could play whatever another coach would want him to....Pop ALWAYS err's on the side of caution and limits Gino's minutes for a variety of reasons....but dont get it twisted....Gino could play WHATEVER minutes...he is not some pu**y out there....cmon man....and people dont consider him elite bcuz theyre just haters and they dont really WATCH him.....but you hear it when we have a TV guy who sees Gino for the first time....they cant stop singing his praises during the broadcast....theyre like ...wow...i never knew he was this good....more minutes for Manu would increase his effectiveness imo.....it would be easier for him to get in rhythm....imagine if he was first option on another team.....or even this one....he would be voted in every year and not picked like he has to be now..... but being that he is picked by coaches is telling in itself.....because the very same coaches he is killin night in and night out, on LIMITED minutes mind you, cant deny him that honor....
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Last edited by Mystic Soulja; 02-22-07 at 02:59 AM.
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  #35  
Old 02-21-07, 10:49 AM
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I got curious about this so I did a little research to see if the stats showed any change in Manu's production based on the minutes he played. I split his game logs into 3 categories, <25 minutes played, 25-31 minutes, >31 minutes. For each category I then calculated per 48 minute averages for points, assists, rebounds, steals and turnovers. I then lumped them all into one number using +points +assists +rebounds +steals -turnovers.

The results:
25 minutes or less (18 games) = 44.4
25 to 31 minutes (16 games) = 40.8
more than 31 minutes (15 games) = 37.5

There's certainly going to be some skew to this because Manu is obviously playing more minutes against the better teams, against whom it's harder to put up big numbers, and he also gets less minutes against the scrubs against whom numbers come more easily. But still, there does appear to be a pretty linear downward trend in Manu's production as his minutes increase.

One interesting note, the Spurs are 0-4 when Manu plays more than 35 minutes. (Charlotte, @Minnesota, Houston, @Phoenix)
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  #36  
Old 02-21-07, 01:35 PM
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A good example CG that Manu is being used just right. Be it as a spark off the bench or as a finisher. He does not need to play more than about 30 minutes per game. He becomes ineffective in the long run. For the short term - playoffs, where there is a day or two between games - he can play 32-34. Unfortunately, me included, often choose sides between Manu and Tony. I admit, I am more of a Tony guy. I like his upside and the fact that he has improved his game. Manu is still vital part of the team and if either left, I would hope it was for the vast improvement of the team.

Also, those that continue to harp on TP's playoff performance, he has had solid post seasons the last two years.
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  #37  
Old 02-21-07, 03:13 PM
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there might be a time for a trade like that, but not now. ak47 won't replace ginobili's offense, and his defense is good but the spurs are not getting quality shooting from the role players. sure, he brings energy, but spurs would lose ginobili's energy.

seems like a bad deal at this time.
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  #38  
Old 02-21-07, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotes_geek View Post
I got curious about this so I did a little research to see if the stats showed any change in Manu's production based on the minutes he played. I split his game logs into 3 categories, <25 minutes played, 25-31 minutes, >31 minutes. For each category I then calculated per 48 minute averages for points, assists, rebounds, steals and turnovers. I then lumped them all into one number using +points +assists +rebounds +steals -turnovers.

The results:
25 minutes or less (18 games) = 44.4
25 to 31 minutes (16 games) = 40.8
more than 31 minutes (15 games) = 37.5
The Spurs have people that log player production in a very detailed way. If Pop is limiting his minutes there's a reason for it. His production goes down the more minutes he plays.
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Old 02-21-07, 03:45 PM
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About those numbers....Manu was never a player to be seen through his numbers...
The Spurs are a team with Manu on the game, and another one without him...
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Old 02-22-07, 03:41 AM
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This trade idea would be cancelled after tonight.
Don't worry, Pop is not idiot. He won't allow that foolish trade.
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Old 02-22-07, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldoror View Post
The Spurs have people that log player production in a very detailed way. If Pop is limiting his minutes there's a reason for it. His production goes down the more minutes he plays.
i think Pop limits him more because he goes 110% all the time and needs to be "watched"....not because his production goes down......Manu being slightly less productive because he is logging >31 minutes is still more productive than most players period....... plus......that could be a common pattern for a majority of the players in the league that play moderate to heavy minutes ...if you break it down all categorically like that (pretty smooth research there geek)....i wonder which players' production goes up (if there are any... DWade maybe?) and which ones go down?......not just on the Spurs but other top players around the league......and I also wonder how much fatigue is a factor....you know....heavy legs...short shots...
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