stein likes what the spurs did

[Ducks]

Ray (San Antonio, TX): Give me a Spurs question Marc, please! No Scola, Oberto not looking great, no real offensive pickups in the offseason! What are my Spurs doing? It looks like Dallas and Pheonix are moving forward and the Spurs are running in place. Any chance we can convince Duncan to play the 5 and pick up another strong 4 (or bring Scola in)? They don't look like an elite team to me next year with this bench.

Marc Stein: (1:42 PM ET ) What? I thought the Spurs had a quietly HUGE week last week. I'd much rather have Elson and Butler splitting $5 mil than Mohammed. I'm betting on the Spurs to make a player out of one of them at the least.

[Derek Flint]

Alright, which poster here is this Ray dude!

[scheely]

Originally Posted by Ducks

I'd much rather have Elson and Butler splitting $5 mil than Mohammed.

Thats what I'm screamin!!!!

[Menudo Terremoto Williams]

"Quietly had a HUGE week..."


Exactly. Upgraded (at least, stood pat) for a lot less cash...

[Uwe Blab]

So now that a media guy has applauded the Spurs moves, does that mean alot of the doomz posters will change their mind? Probably.

[Spurs Brazil]

I agree with Stein

[Roc]

Marc Stein is one of the few who actually studies each NBA team week by week, and gives them an unbiased grade on their performance. Unlike other "reporters" who only report on their favorite or most popular team at the moment.

I respect what the man has to say about our Spurs whether it's good or bad.

[Jones]

Sure, both of them are better than Nazr for the same price. I think the doomsday was because some thought Spurs could have had Jak instead of Elson, and still had Butler.

In the end, it's still a step up. I'm excited to see if Butler becomes a player.

[Wiseacres]

Originally Posted by Spurs Brazil

I agree with Stein

Me too, except HUGE might be overstating it a little. They did cover the center vacancies, which was the major concern, but isn't it a bit early to declare total victory?

[Derek Flint]

It is huge to be able to lure two RFA's in one off-season, whether, they prove to be any help on the court rather than just a feather in the FO's cap is another story.

[Spurs Rulez]

You get rid of Rasho's montross of a contracl for 2 expiring ones and then you sign 2 guys who will play 5 years collectively for about 1/2 of what Nazr was going to make? Yeah, that is a HUGE week. The Spurs kept themselves in the elite class without overspeanding and ruining their salary cpa for years to come.

I would have loved to see either Jak or Scola here, the off-season has been a good one for the Spurs. Although, I expect one more trade....maybe involving Barry and Bonner.

[Wiseacres]

Man, last week I did a post saying I thought the FO did "good", and people said no, they just did "okay". Now they're saying it was "HUGE". I'm sticking with they did good, under the circumstances. A year from now, when we're still celebrating our latest championship, then I'll say it was "HUGE".

[BURPDEXTER]

Originally Posted by Wiseacres

A year from now, when we're still celebrating our latest championship, then I'll say it was "HUGE".

How generous of you.

[Bryhn]

You get rid of Rasho's montross of a contracl for 2 expiring ones and then you sign 2 guys who will play 5 years collectively for about 1/2 of what Nazr was going to make? Yeah, that is a HUGE week. The Spurs kept themselves in the elite class without overspeanding and ruining their salary cpa for years to come.

I would have loved to see either Jak or Scola here, the off-season has been a good one for the Spurs. Although, I expect one more trade....maybe involving Barry and Bonner

good points

And I guess if you think hard about it, the spurs managed to:

Remove Rasho and Nazr at 11 million

AND

Add Bonner, Williams, Butler, and Elson at 11 mill with half of that salary expiring in one year.

It hasn't really impressed along the way, but looking back now, you realize that the spurs won in several ways.

It wasn't spectacular, but it improves the health of the franchise financially.

[kyleo]

Eh, "huge" is relative because we could still be without a true center. Nabbing two restricted guys is great, and the price (although bloated because they're RFA's) is right, but we'll see if either of them can fill that "hugeness."

[senorray]

Originally Posted by boo_radley

Alright, which poster here is this Ray dude!

Hmmm....

[Derek Flint]

[curiousspirit]

It's got to be ray allen.

[Supernatural Anesthetist]

We aquired 3 big men with very different skill sets. Like Stein mentioned, the Spurs will likely make a serviceable starting center out of atleast one of them. And we have increased flexibility in skills to create or alleviate matchup problems that present when playing teams across different styles/players.

This offseason seems pretty mundane--but one never knows. The right catalyst doesn't have to be a star, just a player who performs better than expected.

[rjv]

stein has alway been one of the most steady voices on the ESPN crew. one of the very few though.

[goodtexan]

Spurs brought in two players for each one they lost. Its time to trade two for one and then call it an off season.

[bossu]

In other words... the Spurs saved a bunch of money on their salary cap by switching to Geic--uh, I mean Elson and Butler.

[SF4L]

Originally Posted by bossu

In other words... the Spurs saved a bunch of money on their salary cap by switching to Geic--uh, I mean Elson and Butler.

Well...if they can get as much coverage or more than the last policy...that's a pretty good deal.

[BadKo]

Originally Posted by Spurs Rulez

I would have loved to see either Jak or Scola here, the off-season has been a good one for the Spurs. Although, I expect one more trade....maybe involving Barry and Bonner.

More and likely will be Williams that will be gone than Bonner. They told Williams to stay home while Bonner i believe is already in SA.

[bnwhuxley]

Originally Posted by bossu

In other words... the Spurs saved a bunch of money on their salary cap by switching to Geic--uh, I mean Elson and Butler.

That's about it.

If they don't use their current assets to build a trade in midseason for an actual contributor, then it seems fair to say that the Spurs will not have gotten better talentwise this year.

[DizzG]

Stein seems to always get it more than most analysts

I would rather have both Elson and Butler for what their making over one Nazr for what he received

[SF4L]

Originally Posted by bnwhuxley

That's about it.

If they don't use their current assets to build a trade in midseason for an actual contributor, then it seems fair to say that the Spurs will not have gotten better talentwise this year.

And...to add to that...I wouldn't be too concerned. The Spurs always seem to find a way to get their man. You know...the contributor...the unsung hero that rises from the cloak of doubt just to make others say...we need to pay him what he wants because he had a great series.

All teams that rise to the challenge..that make it all the way...have their contributors for that year that otherwise were just ordinary players.

[crazytlingit]

Stein couldn't be anymore right. Spurs have lost nothing this offseason when you think about it. The two stiffs we had didn't produce one moment in the playoffs to say they were anything more than bench warmers. They couldn't run or shoot or do anything that benefited the spurs last year. They won 63 games with basically everybody but them. But this team is a work in progress just the way pop likes it. I believe they are a lot more versitile with this team. I feel that barry needs to be moved. Hopefully the spurs took Horry's advise, get in shape, which I'll bet most if not all of them are doing.

[pshows]

Originally Posted by Spurs Rulez

You get rid of Rasho's montross of a contracl for 2 expiring ones and then you sign 2 guys who will play 5 years collectively for about 1/2 of what Nazr was going to make? Yeah, that is a HUGE week. The Spurs kept themselves in the elite class without overspeanding and ruining their salary cpa for years to come.

I would have loved to see either Jak or Scola here, the off-season has been a good one for the Spurs. Although, I expect one more trade....maybe involving Barry and Bonner.

what does that word mean?

[babalanja]

Originally Posted by pshows

what does that word mean?

I think he means "albatross." Then again, maybe it's an allusion to Eric Montross, another plodding white center who never lived up to expectations.

[SlamDunc21]

That's hilarious! Montross as in Eric Montross. Combination of "monster" and "albatross" = Montross.

[alpineballer]

Originally Posted by bnwhuxley

If they don't use their current assets to build a trade in midseason for an actual contributor, then it seems fair to say that the Spurs will not have gotten better talentwise this year.

disbeliever!
now that Marc Stein has called the Spurs offseason "huge" (and consequently has become the most respected authority for SR people).
how would he call the Spurs offseason, if it wasn't plan L or M that finally somehow worked, but plan A or B?
immense? gigantic? cyclopean? astronomical?

[KAD]

Good to hear Stein give a thumbs up

[maddog]

Originally Posted by alpineballer

disbeliever!
now that Marc Stein has called the Spurs offseason "huge" (and consequently has become the most respected authority for SR people).
how would he call the Spurs offseason, if it wasn't plan L or M that finally somehow worked, but plan A or B?
immense? gigantic? cyclopean? astronomical?

Huge does seem like hyperbole, for plan L. Or maybe plan 9 from outer space - I still don't get the Elson move. Must be soemthing they see in him.
Overall i think they landed on their feet. Butler sounds like he has potential, Bonner will be useful in certain situations, Elson (= 6 fouls?) who knows. I don't think they have lost anythng in essentialy trading Rasho and Nazr for the above, but not sure they have gained much other than cap flexibility and maybe- just maybe a more versatle roster. The key to the moves in my book is Butler- if he improves then they make out like bandits.

[LoyalLaker]

I liked the signings.

Nazr is what he is - an average Joe who has bounced around the league because he's not special at any one thing.

Elson is just a space filler and 6 extra fouls, but Butler will develop into a legit upper-tier starting PF/C in the league. He's only 21 and took some bad career advice early on, otherwise, he would have been a top 5 pick in this year's draft.

I think the reason he was available was that everyone assumed the Knicks would match any offers, but with $100 million owed to Curry and James, they decided to be cheapskates with the guy who had the most upside.

He could easily become a more motivated/more consistent version of Eric Dampier. A solid 10/10 guy every night.

[Wiseacres]

Originally Posted by LoyalLaker

I liked the signings.

Nazr is what he is - an average Joe who has bounced around the league because he's not special at any one thing.

Elson is just a space filler and 6 extra fouls, but Butler will develop into a legit upper-tier starting PF/C in the league. He's only 21 and took some bad career advice early on, otherwise, he would have been a top 5 pick in this year's draft.

I think the reason he was available was that everyone assumed the Knicks would match any offers, but with $100 million owed to Curry and James, they decided to be cheapskates with the guy who had the most upside.

He could easily become a more motivated/more consistent version of Eric Dampier. A solid 10/10 guy every night.

Hope you are right about Butler, hopefully he gets to the 10/10 while he's still a Spur. Also hope you are wrong about Elson, he might be more than just 6 fouls agsainst somebody. He seems to be able to run better than Nazr/Rasho, maybe he can blossom into a decent defensive player.

[Derek Flint]

Originally Posted by LoyalLaker

.... but Butler will develop into a legit upper-tier starting PF/C in the league...A solid 10/10 guy every night.

I hope you are right, and I hope it happens really, really quickly.

[alpineballer]

Originally Posted by maddog

Huge does seem like hyperbole, for plan L. Or maybe plan 9 from outer space - I still don't get the Elson move. Must be soemthing they see in him.
Overall i think they landed on their feet. Butler sounds like he has potential, Bonner will be useful in certain situations, Elson (= 6 fouls?) who knows. I don't think they have lost anythng in essentialy trading Rasho and Nazr for the above, but not sure they have gained much other than cap flexibility and maybe- just maybe a more versatle roster. The key to the moves in my book is Butler- if he improves then they make out like bandits.

agree on all.
i still think the Elson signing was kind of desperate move. i would like this signing, if it was for 1 million and Elson was our 3rd center.
people argue like: he can run the court faster than Rasho or Nazr. ok, so what? on defense he will make the foul and on offense he will be useless.
after all Nazr was a very good offensive rebounder, this has some value, even if this player can't do much else on offense.
Elson is a very bad offensive rebounder for a 7 footer.
people look at his regular season numbers and call him "compareable to Nazr". that's BS.
look at his PO numbers. in the PO he was lost on the court like Major Tom.
i never thought that i will ever catch myself with a thought like: we should have tried to get Lorenzen Wright for the 3 million/year.
(maybe Wright was plan G anyhow, but we never heard about it)

about Butler. all like this signing and i also do, because it opens some room for hoping that a player might develope and flourish.
but right now it's no reason for excitement.
if the argument that Elson can run the floor well is used, people can't supress the fact that Butler is slow. very slow to tell the truth.
he's lazy on defense and has an elevation like an elephant.
he has a very long way to go and more important work hard to become an impact player.
such a big guy who can catch the ball like Butler will always get some nice numbers in garbage time. but it might take years till he's an impact player when it really counts (in the PO).
that's the problem i have with his signing.
not that the Spurs took a gamble on a young player, but that we need impact players right now. Elson isn't such a player and Butler might need 3 or 4 years till he will be one.
do we really have a more versatile roster? only because Elson runs faster than Rasho did and Butler can catch passes Nazr would have droped?
we gave up some offensive rebounds, some blocks and what most called "position defense" for that. i'm not sure that it will equalize the production.

so i now hope for two things:
a midseason trade for a better PF/C (Magloire?, Foster?,Pachulia?) or an athletic SF/PF (Khryapa?,Jeffries S&T?,Najera?)
and
an unlikely but not impossible breakout season of Oberto.

[spursfan9]

Rasho + Nazr >> Elson + Butler

$Rasho + Nazr$ >> $Elson + Butler$

= less talent, but save money + prospect in fat Butler

= more time TD has the Ball !!!!! = tiMVP = Win = playoffs = same as last year

so we'll be fine. have a chance to win it again... but it'll be a bunch of game 6 and 7s

[maddog]

Originally Posted by alpineballer

agree on all.
i still think the Elson signing was kind of desperate move. i would like this signing, if it was for 1 million and Elson was our 3rd center.
people argue like: he can run the court faster than Rasho or Nazr. ok, so what? on defense he will make the foul and on offense he will be useless.
after all Nazr was a very good offensive rebounder, this has some value, even if this player can't do much else on offense.
Elson is a very bad offensive rebounder for a 7 footer.
people look at his regular season numbers and call him "compareable to Nazr". that's BS.
look at his PO numbers. in the PO he was lost on the court like Major Tom.
i never thought that i will ever catch myself with a thought like: we should have tried to get Lorenzen Wright for the 3 million/year.
.

I'm still perplexed about Elson.
from the front page of the Spursreport...

Elson’s agent and Spurs fought hard to land player in San Antonio
Excerpt: Rocky Mountain News
Monday, July 24, 2006



Francisco Elson’s agent and the San Antonio Spurs used every NBA rule they could to make sure the Denver Nuggets wouldn’t match a two-year, $6 million offer sheet tendered to the center.

The Nuggets didn’t match. And Elson became a member of the Spurs at the start of Friday.

Elson’s agent, Calvin Andrews said his client’s contract is frontloaded each year. Elson, who will get $3 million in each year of the deal, will receive 80 percent of his salary on Sept. 1 each of the next two years, meaning it will be two lump sums of $2.4 million. NBA rules allow for a player to receive up to 80 percent of his entire season’s salary by Aug. 1.

Elson, whose playing time with the Nuggets had been erratic, did not want the offer sheet to be matched. He has a chance to be San Antonio’s starting center.

I was out of town during the past week- any word from Pop or R.C. on what they see in this guy?
I know he was 7 foot and reasobly cheap, but there has to be more than that, right?

[Wiseacres]

Originally Posted by maddog

I'm still perplexed about Elson.
from the front page of the Spursreport...



I was out of town during the past week- any word from Pop or R.C. on what they see in this guy?
I know he was 7 foot and reasobly cheap, but there has to be more than that, right?

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and most have been negative about Elson. I think he was the best we could do under the circumstances, and I think he will not be as bad as some would have us believe. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I see this as an opportunity for him to showcase what he's got on a championship caliber team, which could translate to big money later. So, I think he'll play hard, rebound as well as he can, and do a decent job defensively. He has to, or he'll lose minutes. It's not like the centers we had last year were so **** hot.
So, my take is, let's see what he can do within the Spur's system before we trash him.

[thabanga510]

I dont know why everyone makes a big deal about the center position there arent really that many dominating centers to contend with besides Yao and Shaq.

[jh_350z]

I know he was 7 foot and reasobly cheap, but there has to be more than that, right?

The center position for the Spurs was not being filled by Rasho or Nazi adequately. Both wanted more money than the Spurs were willing to pay. So, the Spurs replaced them with guys they felt could produce at about the same level, but for less money.

Elson and Butler hopefully fill the role of center for the Spurs and do at a price that allows the Spurs to make upgrades in other areas should those opportunities arise.

[maddog]

let me re-phrase my question slightly- Based on the Denver article the Spurs tried to make sure that Elsons' contract was not matched- so was this just a desperation/cap move (if so at least they did not overpay like NY did for James) or is there something they like about this guy?
This is a player nobody else seemed interested in. Butler I can understand the interest; he is very Young- had a decent last month of the season (21 minutes .638%, 9.3/5.5). I know the availability of top qaulity centers is low and that Rasho and Nazr where not great- but I haven't heard one word from the Spurs FO about Elson. Even Bonner they talked about his specific strengths etc.

[TRslick81]

the spurs figure elson will allow them to better match up when phoenix or dallas because elson is much more equipped to run the floor and can play with their small lineup moreso then rasho or nazr.what they lose in strength and experience they gain in speed and quickness.granted he and butler were like their 5th and 6th choice respectively sooo well c how they both fit in

[coyotes_geek]

Originally Posted by maddog

let me re-phrase my question slightly- Based on the Denver article the Spurs tried to make sure that Elsons' contract was not matched- so was this just a desperation/cap move (if so at least they did not overpay like NY did for James) or is there something they like about this guy?

If you're going to sign a guy to an offer sheet it's pretty obvious you want him. If you want him why wouldn't you make it as difficult on the other team to match as you could?

[Wiseacres]

It isn't just about Dallas and Phoenix. The Spurs needed a 7-footer to play Yao and some of the other really big centers out there, during the regular season as well as the playoffs. Elson was probably about as good as they could get this summer, considering they didn't want to pay out millions more than they gave Elson. Was it a desperation cap move? Yeah, pretty close to that, but they also must have seen some positives in him.

[Jones]

I don't think Elson is bulky enough to guard big guys down low.

[Wiseacres]

Originally Posted by Jones

I don't think Elson is bulky enough to guard big guys down low.

You're right about that, he's gonna have to work pretty hard against those guys. I think he's going to be motivated though, so we'll see.

[DaSlicer]

Originally Posted by Jones

I don't think Elson is bulky enough to guard big guys down low.

I agree on that and thats why the spurs will have to count on Jackie Butler to guard guys like Shaq and Yao since he has the size to do it. In some ways I see the spurs mixing up the starting lineup depending on the opponent since both Butler and Elson can do things that the other can't do.