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  #1  
Old 07-18-06, 12:09 AM
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Is Elson Overpaid?

Can we still say that Elson(2 years 6 million) is overpaid after Songaila is getting 5 yrs 21 million?
Remember also the others:
Pryz 5 years 31 million.
Nazr 5 years 25 million.
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Old 07-18-06, 12:13 AM
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it depends on how he plays. remember rasho in minnesota? his numbers went down when he came to san antonio.
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Old 07-18-06, 12:13 AM
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Years are more important than money...... It's more of the long term big deals that kill teams. Rasho's contract was that. Malik's.
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Old 07-18-06, 12:18 AM
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Considering how much scrub centers make, Elson making $3 mill a year is not that bad.
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Old 07-18-06, 12:18 AM
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exactly its 3 mil for 2 seasons in a guys prime and he was a rfa. we pretty much know spurs r probably gonna go witha center by comitte approach neway so its a low risk affair
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  #6  
Old 07-18-06, 12:41 AM
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He's still a LLE type of player in my book. And with Denver's HUGE investment this summer and their inability to move KMart out of town, i believe he could be had with that kinda offering, and that would give us a chance to make our best shot over Jacky Butler, a shot that Knicks won't match for sure.
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Old 07-18-06, 12:50 AM
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In a weak FA market, teams sometimes have to pay more for less. That is how contracts get bloated. I am just glad that it is a 2 year offer with an option on the 3rd year.
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  #8  
Old 07-18-06, 01:02 AM
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why dont we trade barry and oberto for darius miles. he be a great addition. yes i know he is a head case but we did bring in rodman and last year nve who was known to be a head case as well. miles could be an excellent 6th man and when we play dallas he is long enough to guard dirk. i said guard not stop dirk. i think if anybody could get this kid to reach his potential it would be pop. imagine miles and manu running on opposite sides on a break with tony.
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  #9  
Old 07-18-06, 01:51 AM
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It sounds good but i think PORTLAND would want Barry, & the draft rights to Scola.
Or maybe Barry and a draft pick. They don't want a big man they got Pryzbilla.

Last edited by bigjosh721; 07-18-06 at 01:53 AM.
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  #10  
Old 07-18-06, 01:51 AM
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god no.
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  #11  
Old 07-18-06, 01:57 AM
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I think maybe the SPURS r getting Elson & Butler and thats it for the rest of the summer.

Unless the SPURS got something up their sleeve?
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  #12  
Old 07-18-06, 02:22 AM
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Miles is a waste.

As far as big men go, Elson is not overpaid. He might prove to be a bargain. As it stands, if we get those two guys, we have the same level of talent for a lot cheaper and less years.
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Old 07-18-06, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjohntke
why dont we trade barry and oberto for darius miles. he be a great addition. yes i know he is a head case but we did bring in rodman and last year nve who was known to be a head case as well. miles could be an excellent 6th man and when we play dallas he is long enough to guard dirk. i said guard not stop dirk. i think if anybody could get this kid to reach his potential it would be pop. imagine miles and manu running on opposite sides on a break with tony.
what do you think rather of this trade: barry and/OR oberto for Jumaine Jones and/or Bernard Robinson
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  #14  
Old 07-18-06, 06:47 AM
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I dont think they overpaid for Elson at all. All those other guys getting paid more money for more years are asked to do more for thier teams. We just want aggressive big men who will get boards, follow up, block/alter shots, and maybe hit an outside jumper if they are wide open.
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  #15  
Old 07-18-06, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUspur
I dont think they overpaid for Elson at all. All those other guys getting paid more money for more years are asked to do more for thier teams. We just want aggressive big men who will get boards, follow up, block/alter shots, and maybe hit an outside jumper if they are wide open.
Yep. Pretty much what was expected of Rasho and Nazr yet paid way to much for that kind of role.

Spurs have found out (actually have always known) that for what they want/need from their big man doesn't have to equate to paying big money.

Servicable...play within the system...remember your place without causing distractions is all the team needs at the 5.

For that kind of player... in that position on this team...I'd say it's fair money.
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Old 07-18-06, 08:36 AM
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Elson's quickness will be a positive in some matchups throughout the year. Mark my words. Butler's mass down low will be as well.

The Spurs really have a challenge finding good big men that can play well with Timmy. They needed a big man that doesn't have to occupy the same space as TD, but can get points cleaning up the boards with put backs etc. Nazr was almost that guy except for his horrid stoney hands, and Rasho was a defensive liability against the quicker small ball centers in the league.

It may not be perfect, but in Elson they got a guy that has some pretty good quickness at his position, and Butler, who does have very good hands down low, but is rather slow. I expect we will see those guys change starting roles as the matchups dictate on any given night.

There is a method to Pops madness, and I can see this working out in the end.
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Old 07-18-06, 08:43 AM
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I agree, I think with the New NBA I wound't be surprised to see a different center starting due to matchups. I figure the FO made Elson and Butler aware of this when extending offers and maybe Nazr/Rasho might have had problems with not knowing who was starting.
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  #18  
Old 07-18-06, 08:44 AM
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Everyone in the NBA is over paid!!
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Old 07-18-06, 08:44 AM
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Dang, people complain about anything
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  #20  
Old 07-18-06, 08:50 AM
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so elson is already on the team?
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  #21  
Old 07-18-06, 09:01 AM
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If we won it all next June then he's not overpaid. If we didn't win then he is. This is SR.com tradition: always uses hindsight.
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  #22  
Old 07-18-06, 09:38 AM
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Yes he's still overpaid.
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  #23  
Old 07-18-06, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spursfan9
so elson is already on the team?
no
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  #24  
Old 07-18-06, 11:41 AM
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$6 mil for 3 years is chumpchange for an NBA big man. There's a reason, of course, that Elson merits chumpchange--that's because he's never really done anything.

The real question is how will he stack up to Nazr and Rasho's underperformance of the last few seasons. Can he do as well or close to as well as Rasho or Nazr? Possibly. The bar is pretty low.
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  #25  
Old 07-18-06, 11:51 AM
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^^^ it's $6 mil for 2 years, not 3.
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  #26  
Old 07-18-06, 12:57 PM
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Not overpaid, just undertalented.
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  #27  
Old 07-18-06, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones
Not overpaid, just undertalented.

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  #28  
Old 07-18-06, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callo1
Elson's quickness will be a positive in some matchups throughout the year. Mark my words. Butler's mass down low will be as well.

The Spurs really have a challenge finding good big men that can play well with Timmy. They needed a big man that doesn't have to occupy the same space as TD, but can get points cleaning up the boards with put backs etc. Nazr was almost that guy except for his horrid stoney hands, and Rasho was a defensive liability against the quicker small ball centers in the league.

It may not be perfect, but in Elson they got a guy that has some pretty good quickness at his position, and Butler, who does have very good hands down low, but is rather slow. I expect we will see those guys change starting roles as the matchups dictate on any given night.

There is a method to Pops madness, and I can see this working out in the end.
Nice post.


I don't know if Elson is overpaid, but with what is out there, I think it is reasonable. We weren't going to re-sign Nazr anyway.

How many PF/C in this league are appropriately paid? I would say many are overpaid. It all depends on what is out there and when. I would rather "overpay" with 6 mill over two years than 60 mill for 4 years.

Anyway, can anyone name PF/C who are underpaid or appropriately paid?
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  #29  
Old 07-19-06, 04:21 PM
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If the Nuggets acquire JR Smith by trade and sign Nene they will have 11 guaranteed contracts leaving their team salary around $4 million under the tax threshold. If Evans is expecting MLE money then he running out of options including Denver. Therefore leaving just enough money to sign Elson and another vet minimum contract to get their roster to 13 players.
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  #30  
Old 07-19-06, 10:00 PM
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"Overpaid" depends on who is available and what we have to pay to get them. (Using a Basebal analogy) When the Rangers offered A-Rod $5 mill more than anyone else is offering than that is overpaying. You have to also consider the perks of playing in your city. Cost of living, advertising opportunities, taxes, way of life, playing time, and a chance to win are also figured in the payment. Places like Toronto or Utah might have to pay more because of the reasons above. If a regular Joe gets a job driving trucks in Iraq and gets paid 3 or 4 times what they would make in the US, I personally would not say they are overpaid. (This can make you reconsider why New York has such a high cap #)

Elson is not overpaid because of the following. $3 mill for a big is way below average. Especially if he is a starting Center which he has a good chance to be. Name one center his age (not on rookie contracts) that make less and start. If he becomes 3rd string then we could say he never reach Pop's potential for him but I would not say he is overpaid. In a restricted FA situation teams have to offer enough that it wont get matched. Besides I have yet to hear or read about someone who could be had for the same or less that would have as much upside as Elson. (Just like the year Rasho was signed, the Spurs can only fill their needs with whomever is available and at the going market value.)

Last edited by texan in domerland 1; 07-19-06 at 10:03 PM.
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  #31  
Old 07-19-06, 10:32 PM
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No, he's underpaid.
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  #32  
Old 07-19-06, 11:16 PM
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Cato or the Kandi-man

Couple of good alternatives to Elson in my mind (go ahead and match, Denver). I like the Butler signing a lot, remember these are better alternatives to Elson, not the holy grail of centers: (and they could be had for less money than Elson)

Kelvin Cato age 31 6"11" 275 lbs. drafted 1st rd, #15 by Dallas out of Iowa St.
Michael Olowokandi age 31 7'0" 270 lbs. drafted 1st rd, #1 by LA Clippers out of Pacific
Francisco Elson age 30 7'0" 235 lbs. undrafted, out of Cal

ADVANTAGE: Cato or Kandi-man. 235 lbs? are you kidding?

OFFENSE Last 4 yrs avg.
FG%: Cato 48% Kandi-man 44% Elson 49%
FT%: Cato 68% Kandi-man 61% Elson 63%
P/40: Cato 10.8 Kandi-man 11.8 Elson 9.8

DEFENSE Last 4 yrs avg.
RB/40: Cato 11 Kandi-man 10.1 Elson 8.8
Rebound rate (% of missed shots rebounded - from Hollinger's ESPN stats):
Cato 15.8 Kandi-man 14.7 Elson 12.7
Blks/40: Cato 2.56 Kandi-man 2.12 Elson 1.47

Player Efficiency Rating last 4 yrs avg. (league avg. is 15)
Cato 13.23 Kandi-man 10.07 Elson 10.7

IMO either Cato or Kandi-man would have been better (and more affordable) targets than Elson. They have more talent, are more productive, have the bulk necessary, and are more athletic, at the same age.

Last edited by TresAnios; 07-19-06 at 11:31 PM.
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  #33  
Old 07-20-06, 12:45 AM
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I like the makeup of our center position right now. We have 3 guys all of whom bring different strengths to the court. None of them are game breakers so none will probably be on the floor when the game is on the line.

I still see a lineup thta includes Duncan at center to close out most games. The fact that Bonner and Williams will both be off the payroll next year leads me to believe that by playoff time one or both will be moved for either a PF or a SF.

Even if we don't make a move I see us in a position to move into the latter more expensive years of Tim's and Manu's contract without going into luxury tax land.
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  #34  
Old 07-20-06, 01:22 AM
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Say NO TO ONOWHYCAN'TI.

Elson has at least a chance to stay in front of dirk Nowitzki and other tall rangy forwards. Both Cato and Can'tI don't have that mobility and when was the last time we saw Kelvin last a whole season?Try never.

I like the upside in the Spurs choices. It ain't sexy, but sexy ain't needed to win basketball games.
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  #35  
Old 07-20-06, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodTango
Say NO TO ONOWHYCAN'TI.

Elson has at least a chance to stay in front of dirk Nowitzki and other tall rangy forwards. Both Cato and Can'tI don't have that mobility and when was the last time we saw Kelvin last a whole season?Try never.

I like the upside in the Spurs choices. It ain't sexy, but sexy ain't needed to win basketball games.
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  #36  
Old 07-20-06, 07:23 AM
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Tall rangy forward to stay in front of Dirk - I agree we need a James Posey-type. But Elson from what I hear isn't quick enough, and even Dirk outweighs him (245 to 235)...
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