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  #1  
Old 07-14-06, 02:20 PM
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Why all the Elson bashing?

Seems like Elson is taking a lot of abuse around here, but I don't think it's justified. The guy's numbers last year aren't so different from Nazr and Rasho, he generally falls between them in most categories. So what if he ain't Javtokas, at least he's a known quantity. I remember a few years ago he got into it with KG and the Wolves in the playoffs, so I wouldn't mind somebody with an attitude fighting for rebounds down low. Maybe he ain't the answer, but I don't think he sucks either. How about we give the guy the benefit of a doubt first?
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  #2  
Old 07-14-06, 02:21 PM
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oh gawd here we go again let the hate begin damn i miss rasho allready
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  #3  
Old 07-14-06, 02:22 PM
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he's so popular, he aint even a spur yet
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  #4  
Old 07-14-06, 02:23 PM
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Let's wait until he's signed at least...
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  #5  
Old 07-14-06, 02:33 PM
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It always happens with new signings.
What's the big deal?
Many b1tched about NVE last summer, some even disliked Finley.
Some people almost jumped when Rose was traded for Nazr.
Many hated the Rasho signings and preferred Miller or Kandi.
And so forth and so forth......

Why to think this forum is here for?
So that some can come in here and maybe vent (sometimes for no reason) instead
of going out back and kicking their dog.

See we're pet lovers here besides being Spurs lovers.
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  #6  
Old 07-14-06, 02:36 PM
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we bash because everytime i say the spurs might get "franciso elson" my coworker laughs at me, asks me "who the heck is francisco elson", and tells me how his bulls signed ben wallace.
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  #7  
Old 07-14-06, 02:37 PM
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Is this when the "Spurs front office should be hung from the flagpole in front of the Alamo for trading Damir Markota" talk begins???
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  #8  
Old 07-14-06, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalspurs
we bash because everytime i say the spurs might get "franciso elson" my coworker laughs at me, asks me "who the heck is francisco elson", and tells me how his bulls signed ben wallace.
yeah but tell your co-worker that we're saving like $11 million with Elson
over someone like Ben Wallace.
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  #9  
Old 07-14-06, 02:42 PM
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Personally, I think Elson would be a great fit here.

He's a better shotblocker than either Nazr or Rasho (in terms of his skill, if not raw numbers).

He's better at running the floor.

He can and will dunk.

Works for me.
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  #10  
Old 07-14-06, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
He's a better shotblocker than either Nazr or Rasho (in terms of his skill, if not raw numbers).
not in the games I watched. Maybe as good as Nazr because Nazr has always been an average/mediocre shotblocker, but not as good as Rasho.
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  #11  
Old 07-14-06, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by objective
not in the games I watched. Maybe as good as Nazr because Nazr has always been an average/mediocre shotblocker, but not as good as Rasho.
and no scouting report I have ever read says he's a good shotblocker either.
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  #12  
Old 07-14-06, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
yeah but tell your co-worker that we're saving like $11 million with Elson
over someone like Ben Wallace.
exactly!

For only 1/5th the salary the Spurs get almost all the points and almost 1/2 the rebounds! And a little less than 1/3rd the blocks in only 2/3rds the minutes!
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  #13  
Old 07-14-06, 02:56 PM
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A positive about him I guess is he brings toughness. I remember him getting into it with KG a few times and on one occassion getting thrown out of a game for slamming KG to the ground hard after KG tried to dunk on him. Atleast we now will have a guy who will diss hard fouls back when our big 3 gets fouled hard. Who knows he might even knock Dirk hard to the ground after Dirk flails for like the 10th time during a game.
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  #14  
Old 07-14-06, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSlicer
A positive about him I guess is he brings toughness. I remember him getting into it with KG a few times and on one occassion getting thrown out of a game for slamming KG to the ground hard after KG tried to dunk on him. Atleast we now will have a guy who will diss hard fouls back when our big 3 gets fouled hard. Who knows he might even knock Dirk hard to the ground after Dirk flails for like the 10th time during a game.
I don't mind Elson. He is cheap, young, and athletic... Rasho was awful, he was so damn slow. Nazr was decent but disappeared a lot, I think Elson can be a good defense presence and can get us rebounds. The center position isn't our problem, its our damn bench, its too old, we aren't fast enough. We need quickness and that is where Elson will help...
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  #15  
Old 07-14-06, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samerxxxx
I don't mind Elson. He is cheap, young, and athletic... Rasho was awful, he was so damn slow. Nazr was decent but disappeared a lot, I think Elson can be a good defense presence and can get us rebounds. The center position isn't our problem, its our damn bench, its too old, we aren't fast enough. We need quickness and that is where Elson will help...
Cheap? Cheaper than rasho, yes, but cheap? I guess. Maybe.

Young? He's new to the league and bball but basicly he's 30.

Athletic. Kind of. The SPurs Fo says that the Butler/Elson combo will less productive than the Rasho?nazr combo. Doesn't Makes me feel better.

As far as the bench, well how do these moves solve that problem, especially if he is the starter?
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  #16  
Old 07-14-06, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
I don't mind Elson. He is cheap, young, and athletic
he's costs less and is athletic . . . but young? He's a couple of months older than Rasho and a year and a half older than Nazr.

He does have quickness though. I have doubts about his rebounding being any better than average.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-06, 03:09 PM
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lets hope they become more productive
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  #18  
Old 07-14-06, 03:10 PM
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It doesn't solve the bench problem.. but we need a starter. He is def. better than rasho. Probably not a as good as Nazr, but he's def. cheaper...I'm curious to see about this kid from New Zealand, he is young and will hopefully add quickness to the bench.

Remember, the spurs don't need much, they just need to fill the center position and add some quickness to the bench.
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  #19  
Old 07-14-06, 03:11 PM
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"He's new to the league and bball "

I don't even see how he's new to b-ball. He played ball as a teen and played at Cal in the NCAA. Then in Spain.
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  #20  
Old 07-14-06, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalspurs
we bash because everytime i say the spurs might get "franciso elson" my coworker laughs at me, asks me "who the heck is francisco elson", and tells me how his bulls signed ben wallace.
I laugh when I watch Ben Wallace shoot FT's and get fouled intentionally. All while making 15 mill per season is it ? That's funny.
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  #21  
Old 07-14-06, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by objective
"He's new to the league and bball "

I don't even see how he's new to b-ball. He played ball as a teen and played at Cal in the NCAA. Then in Spain.
sorry I meant relatively new to the NBA.

Most don't realize he was originally drafted way back in 1999, same year as Manu.
Came to the league in 2003.

damn, so what has he done to distinguish himself since 1999?
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  #22  
Old 07-14-06, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
damn, so what has he done to distinguish himself since 1999?
battled Najera to determine who would be the 4th best big man on a team that loses in the 1st round instead of the 5th best
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  #23  
Old 07-14-06, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hantler
he called KG gay?
That's funny...as soon as I heard we extended him an offer I thought to my self is that the guy who got in fron tof the camera and said the 'Kevin Garnett is straight up gay'

I tink he will bring what the spurs need honestly. he will go in the game and his only job will be to grab rebounds. he is pretty athletic and will provide us a big body and six fouls.

Everyone here is out of their mind...so far so good FO, and for all of the doubters it can only get better from here.
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  #24  
Old 07-14-06, 04:27 PM
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Denver won about 60% of the games he started last year, and lost about 60% of those he didn't. Obviously he gave them something.
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  #25  
Old 07-14-06, 04:27 PM
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He is the new whipping boy!
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  #26  
Old 07-14-06, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAsucksForever
Denver won about 60% of the games he started last year, and lost about 60% of those he didn't. Obviously he gave them something.

Which means he must be better than Kenyon Martin!!!

Sweet!!!!!
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  #27  
Old 07-14-06, 04:38 PM
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I am looking forward and trying to be positive. Many players do better when they find the right niche. Elson is excited about playing for the Spurs and may end up putting forth a much better effort than he did in Denver. After all, playing for a championship contender means more than playing for a team that can't seem to make it out of the first round in the playoffs. Also, there are no big egos on the Spurs team to contend with like in other teams.

We shouldn't blame Elson for the Spurs FO selecting him over Jav. We need to give him a fair shake. It is not his fault that the Spurs decided to make an offer for him.

I think we were all so enthralled with Jav based on the videos that we believed him to be the second coming of David Rob. At the minimum, we liked his dunking and athleticism and believed he was a shoe in. We need to get over him not being here and not compare him to who we did get. IMHO
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  #28  
Old 07-14-06, 05:17 PM
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I have no complaints about Elson.Hes tough and physical something i think we lacked at the center position.
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  #29  
Old 07-14-06, 05:34 PM
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Here is a funny passage from Wikipedia on Elson:

Elson caused controversy in April, 2004, when after a playoff game against the Minnesota Timberwolves in which he was accidentally hit in the groin by opposing player Kevin Garnett, described Garnett as "gay". He was quoted as saying: "That's a cheap shot by a low-class type player. You don't do that. That's gay on his part. I told him that he was gay, too, for touching me in my private parts."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Elson

For sure its guaranteed we know Jason Terry won't be going for Elson's balls or any other balls on the spurs now.
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  #30  
Old 07-14-06, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSlicer
Here is a funny passage from Wikipedia on Elson:

Elson caused controversy in April, 2004, when after a playoff game against the Minnesota Timberwolves in which he was accidentally hit in the groin by opposing player Kevin Garnett, described Garnett as "gay". He was quoted as saying: "That's a cheap shot by a low-class type player. You don't do that. That's gay on his part. I told him that he was gay, too, for touching me in my private parts."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Elson

For sure its guaranteed we know Jason Terry won't be going for Elson's balls or any other balls on the spurs now.
Maybe they got him for this specific reason. I mean we know what Terry and Reggie Evans can do.
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  #31  
Old 07-14-06, 07:30 PM
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He's a far inferior defender and shotblocker than Rasho is, and his offense is way below Nazr's. The only thing he does better is to run the floor.

Elson's Euroleague epilogue in 2001 at Barcelona was 7.6ppg 5.8rpg, 0.7bpg, and the next year he got worse on a lousier team that didn't make it to Euroleague.

The Spurs know he's not worth $6m 2 years, but they have to pay more than they want to because of his restricted status. That always happens with restricted guys.

The guy is a scrub. And from the way things look, he's our STARTER!
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  #32  
Old 07-14-06, 07:50 PM
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A player who had the balls to publicly call out KG as being gay can't be all bad.
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  #33  
Old 07-14-06, 11:58 PM
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I have no problem with Elson. I never was sure if Javtokas could play in the NBA at the level he did in Europe. The NBA is completely different. I would've liked to see him come over for the LLE but not more than that. Elson has been in the league and has shown enough to earn the contract offer he received. If the Spurs didn't give him that offer, another team would have likely offered similar money or maybe more. That's how free agency works. Sometimes players are overpaid but that's the result of simple supply and demand. What other known NBA centers are there on the free market? Since Jav is not yet a proven commodity, it's not wise for the Spurs to pay him more than the LLE. Let's not get crazy about what Jav can actually do on the court. He can run, jump, and dunk. Which is the same thing that Sean Marks can do and a lot of other players. If you put Sean Marks in Europe, he would deliver some great stats and would probably win a few individual awards. That doesn't necessarily mean he would become a good NBA player. Remember that the Spurs always said that Jav would be used as a role player off the bench, not a starter. Of course, for someone who was only going to be a role player to say that the Spurs offer is an "insult" and to also demand minutes is a huge mistake. Especially when dealing with the Spurs FO. I have no problem with either Elson or Butler. Jav was not the second coming of DRob. He was only going to be a bench player. Elson knows the league and is every bit as athletic as Javtokas. If jav was such a hot NBA prospect, why aren't we hearing about other teams asking the Spurs about trading his rights to them? It's the same thing with Scola. Those players become legends on message boards because fans only see highlights of their best plays. What would happen if we only saw highlights of their mistakes? I trust that our scouts have seen enough of their best plays and their worst plays to help them make a well-informed decision. I'm not worried about our off-season at all. The Spurs will be there in the end contending for a title just like the past 4 years.
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  #34  
Old 07-15-06, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwhuxley
He's a far inferior defender and shotblocker than Rasho is, and his offense is way below Nazr's. The only thing he does better is to run the floor.

Elson's Euroleague epilogue in 2001 at Barcelona was 7.6ppg 5.8rpg, 0.7bpg, and the next year he got worse on a lousier team that didn't make it to Euroleague.

The Spurs know he's not worth $6m 2 years, but they have to pay more than they want to because of his restricted status. That always happens with restricted guys.

The guy is a scrub. And from the way things look, he's our STARTER!
Elson's statistics in Barcelona needs an explanation.
Barca's coach was playing with 10 players, and every players were staying 20 minutes in the court.
That's why, his statistics were a little down from Jav's.
Don't worry for Elson, he will do what Nazr did.
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  #35  
Old 07-15-06, 01:53 PM
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GO PANCHO GO!

lol
(for those that don't know, Pancho is a nickname for Francisco. Kind of like Bill for William.)
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  #36  
Old 07-15-06, 02:45 PM
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He beat the Spurs last year with the Nuggets. I'm sure he is no all star but I bet he will get to rebounds faster than Nazr and Rasho did.
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  #37  
Old 07-15-06, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuncaboylu
Elson's statistics in Barcelona needs an explanation.
Barca's coach was playing with 10 players, and every players were staying 20 minutes in the court.
That's why, his statistics were a little down from Jav's.
Don't worry for Elson, he will do what Nazr did.
It isn't about minutes (he averaged 23 with Barcelona, Jav averaged 27 in Lietuvos). Elson's per minute stats were worse, esp his shotblocking. Then he went to Pamesa Valencia next year and played even less.

On top of that, he has already played a couple of years in the NBA where he hasn't showed much at all. Yeah, he's athletic, but why should anyone think he will do what Nazr did? There's good basis to reject such an expectation.

The one thing he's able to do that neither Rasho or Nazr (or Jav) can is to shoot jumpers at better than 40% - he's at 43% for last year and takes a slight majority of his shots outside.
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  #38  
Old 07-16-06, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amente
yeah but tell your co-worker that we're saving like $11 million with Elson
over someone like Ben Wallace.
i don't know if "saving" could ever be a proper term in combination with Elson.
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  #39  
Old 07-16-06, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineballer
i don't know if "saving" could ever be a proper term in combination with Elson.
You are underrating Elson too much.
This guy's statistics is not very different from NAzr and Rasho.
Plus Elson can block two times of Nazr.
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  #40  
Old 07-16-06, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuncaboylu
You are underrating Elson too much.
This guy's statistics is not very different from NAzr and Rasho.
Plus Elson can block two times of Nazr.
i'm underrating Elson??
ok let's do a quiz.
what kind of a player is this who has the following Play-off numbers?

10 games
14.1 minutes/game
2.3 rebounds
.10 blocks
2.70 fouls
2.1 points

Elson is a poor man's Jason Collins during the regular season, who turns into a poor man's Marc Madson in the playoffs.

to put the argument he will block twice as Nazr did in perspective: in his whole play-off career Elson has blocked one (in written numbers: 1) shot in ten games!
and this guy is advertised as an upgrade in the shotblocking department!

what's our next upgrade?
trade Tim for Toine Walker and call it an upgrade in the 3pt shooting?
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  #41  
Old 07-16-06, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birn
I have no problem with Elson. I never was sure if Javtokas could play in the NBA at the level he did in Europe. The NBA is completely different. I would've liked to see him come over for the LLE but not more than that. Elson has been in the league and has shown enough to earn the contract offer he received. If the Spurs didn't give him that offer, another team would have likely offered similar money or maybe more. That's how free agency works. Sometimes players are overpaid but that's the result of simple supply and demand. What other known NBA centers are there on the free market? Since Jav is not yet a proven commodity, it's not wise for the Spurs to pay him more than the LLE. Let's not get crazy about what Jav can actually do on the court. He can run, jump, and dunk. Which is the same thing that Sean Marks can do and a lot of other players. If you put Sean Marks in Europe, he would deliver some great stats and would probably win a few individual awards. That doesn't necessarily mean he would become a good NBA player. Remember that the Spurs always said that Jav would be used as a role player off the bench, not a starter. Of course, for someone who was only going to be a role player to say that the Spurs offer is an "insult" and to also demand minutes is a huge mistake. Especially when dealing with the Spurs FO. I have no problem with either Elson or Butler. Jav was not the second coming of DRob. He was only going to be a bench player. Elson knows the league and is every bit as athletic as Javtokas. If jav was such a hot NBA prospect, why aren't we hearing about other teams asking the Spurs about trading his rights to them? It's the same thing with Scola. Those players become legends on message boards because fans only see highlights of their best plays. What would happen if we only saw highlights of their mistakes? I trust that our scouts have seen enough of their best plays and their worst plays to help them make a well-informed decision. I'm not worried about our off-season at all. The Spurs will be there in the end contending for a title just like the past 4 years.
This is probably the best post here recently in regards to off-season moves. Everyone needs to read this and relax. I couldn't have said it better, well said.
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  #42  
Old 07-16-06, 09:53 AM
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Elson is proven, unfortunately that's his downside.

Not sweating if we get him, but what he and Butler gain us is a savings in money. If the Spurs don't use that saved money to fill a gap at small forward, then that is what I'll be worried about.
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  #43  
Old 07-16-06, 10:00 AM
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Yes let's wait until he is signed but what the Spurs missed this last year was an enforcer - Kevin Willis, Malik Rose, Tony Massenberg etc. If this guy can lay Dirk flat once when he goes inside he'll settle for jump shots the rest of the way.
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Old 07-16-06, 10:04 AM
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I'm cool with good cop/bad cop routines in the post.
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  #45  
Old 07-16-06, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birn
Elson has been in the league and has shown enough to earn the contract offer he received.

ok, for a second i thought you are serious about that.
or can it be............you mean what you say?
we are talking about Elson. Francisco E L S O N.
not (never nerveus Pervis) Ellison.

can you remember how much fun we all had when we heard about Isah signing Jerome James to a MLE contract, after James had a good PO series versus the Spurs?
Ok, now Spurs offer half MLE to a player, who (other than James) had a desaster PO series.
well maybe they thought: hey that player is in a contract year and he doesn't like James or Dampier get big numbers right in this moment.
he cuts his numbers to half in the PO, he almost disappears.
now that's not a fake player. that's a good guy. he showed us absolutly nothing. let's sign him, we will never get disappointet, because we can't expect ANYTHING from him.
he really "earned" the contract.
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  #46  
Old 07-16-06, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
I know.............can someone research Elson's numbers versus the Clippers, and compare those against Rasho and Nazr's numbers versus the Mavericks?
you mean the 1.2 points and 2.2 rebounds and 0.0 blocks production (in 15 minutes per game) of Elson versus the Clippers would have helped us against the Mavs?
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Old 07-16-06, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
What I'm saying is that I have a hunch that Elson's 1.2 points and 2.2 rebounds and 0.0 blocks production (in 15 minutes per game) versus the Clippers, is going to be better than Rasho and Nazr's production versus the Mavs.
Word. Hell their playoff numbers as a whole are comparable.
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Old 07-16-06, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
What I'm saying is that I have a hunch that Elson's 1.2 points and 2.2 rebounds and 0.0 blocks production (in 15 minutes per game) versus the Clippers, is going to be better than Rasho and Nazr's production versus the Mavs.
It's hard to get outplayed by someone who doesn't play, so yes.
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Old 07-16-06, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hantler
he called KG gay?
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  #50  
Old 07-16-06, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
Well, considering that Chris "Captain Caveman" Kaman kicked both Rasho and Nazr's arse's during the 3 regular season games, I would not be surprised if Elson had some difficulty with him as well in the playoffs.

Game 1 (Pt/Rb/BS)
Kaman 14/13/0
Nazr 2/6/4
Rasho 2/8/2

Game 2 (Pt/Rb/BS)
Kaman 15/8/0
Nazr 2/5/0
Rasho 0/1/0

Game 3 (Pt/Rb/BS)
Kaman 18/8/1
Nazr 9/6/0
Rasho 0/5/0

Yeah, there's a big difference between regular season and playoffs......But it sounds like Kaman gave Elson as much trouble as Nazr and Rasho.

BUT WAIT! Here's the good news:

If Elson averaged 1.2 points and 2.2 rebounds and 0.0 blocks production versus Kaman in the playoffs........
.......then Elson actually RAISED his game!

Yup.....in the 4 regular season games, Elson averaged 0.5 points, 2.75 rebounds, and .25 blocks versus Kaman.

I was referring to Rasho/Nazr's stats in the Dallas series being non-existent because they didn't play, not about wildman Chris Kaman.
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