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  #1  
Old 07-14-06, 12:14 PM
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Source says Javtokas was insulted by Spurs offer

According to one of our insiders, Javtokas was insulted at being offered way less than has been reported ($2.5 million ?) per year by the Spurs. Especially since some of the best players in Europe make $2.2 to $3 million per year there.

According to the source the pressure is back on the Spurs to try to get him something at least comperable to that or his agent has him walk away.

That's the scoop.

Spurs tried to get him cheaper than market value, basically.
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  #2  
Old 07-14-06, 12:15 PM
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I thought the initial offer was LLE for 2 years? Where's the 2.5 mil a year coming from?
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  #3  
Old 07-14-06, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesR
If he wasn't offered as much as FREAKING ELSON then thats a lowball.
No he was not.
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  #4  
Old 07-14-06, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesR
If he wasn't offered as much as FREAKING ELSON then thats a lowball.
More like we way overpaid Elson.
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  #5  
Old 07-14-06, 12:21 PM
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If your rights belong to a team due to the fact that you were drafted by them, then isn't market value somewhat irrelevant?

Seems to me like the international players need to have a better representative to take their case to Billy Hunter. He doesn't seem to be doing anything about the players who aren't quite in the NBA yet, but whose rights are owned by an NBA team.
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  #6  
Old 07-14-06, 12:21 PM
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So...were the Spurs just trying to get him on the cheap, or are they not as high on him as SR is?
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  #7  
Old 07-14-06, 12:23 PM
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Maybe that's what the Spurs were doing. Coming in with a low offer to see if he would bite.
Or maybe they felt he would sign because of loyalty?
They did, afterall, help the guy getback his career when they paid all his medical bills a few years ago.
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  #8  
Old 07-14-06, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Maybe that's what the Spurs were doing. Coming in with a low offer to see if he would bite.
Or maybe they felt he would sign because of loyalty?
They did, afterall, help the guy getback his career when they paid all his medical bills a few years ago.
^^^^ that should be worth something

Of course, he might interpret it as, "You obviously value my talent as you worked so hard to save it, so why the hell aren't you showing my that with this piddly sum of money?"
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  #9  
Old 07-14-06, 12:30 PM
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Pop plays hardball. The Spurs hold all the cards in negotiations with players outside the realm of the NBA. The talent level is not the only reason the Spurs continue to draft foreigners. While Javtokas feels the compulsion to pretend like he deserves a contract bigger than the best players in Europe, he scues the fact that Euro teams are forced to shell up more money so their players don't follow their dream of NBA glory. Bottom line, the Scolas and Javtokas' of the world want to play here more than anything else, and right now Pop has the flexability to take advantage of it.
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  #10  
Old 07-14-06, 12:31 PM
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They go from throwing out a lowball offer and getting shut down to offering more for plan ZZ?
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  #11  
Old 07-14-06, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesR
After the European success in the NBA, we cannot just expect good players to sign for the LLE anymore.
so why was everyone talking about using the LLE on him around here for months? now that wasnt realistic? it kept being said over and over when people asked that SA had the LLE for Javtokas and the MLE still to spend
so LLE money is now an insult?
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  #12  
Old 07-14-06, 12:35 PM
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seems like many fans here are also insulted by the JAK offer

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  #13  
Old 07-14-06, 12:39 PM
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Javtokas shouldn't think money-first, he didn't do anything in NBA yet.
He would get 2.5 million for 1 year and if he fits to system Spurs would pay him MLE next year. Javtokas made a mistake i think.
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  #14  
Old 07-14-06, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuncaboylu
Javtokas shouldn't think money-first, he didn't do anything in NBA yet.
He would get 2.5 million for 1 year and if he fits to system Spurs would pay him MLE next year. Javtokas made a mistake i think.
Who said the Spurs would pay 2.5 mil for 1 year?
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  #15  
Old 07-14-06, 12:41 PM
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To be fair, the offer should at least be slightly better than Oberto's salary, which is around 2.5m per year, right?

However, calling the offer an insult is really rude.
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  #16  
Old 07-14-06, 12:44 PM
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With exchange rates as they are against the Euro, and Europe starting to offer 2/3 mill a year, you have to analyze your options. Maybe they offered him 1.5 mill/year (which wouldnt surprise me), and he basically said bye bye. Can't blame him. He knows what to expect in Europe, and not in the NBA.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-06, 12:45 PM
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Ahhh, trade his rights too.
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  #18  
Old 07-14-06, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyShrimp
Pop plays hardball. The Spurs hold all the cards in negotiations with players outside the realm of the NBA. The talent level is not the only reason the Spurs continue to draft foreigners. While Javtokas feels the compulsion to pretend like he deserves a contract bigger than the best players in Europe, he scues the fact that Euro teams are forced to shell up more money so their players don't follow their dream of NBA glory. Bottom line, the Scolas and Javtokas' of the world want to play here more than anything else, and right now Pop has the flexability to take advantage of it.
Good point. Who wants to start a bidding war for unproven players?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Euros will just have to learn to take a pay cut as the cost of penetrating a new and more lucrative market. I doubt it ends up happening that way. GMs like Isiah will be oblivious, get bid up by the European teams, and be saddled with an overpaid European flop.
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  #19  
Old 07-14-06, 12:46 PM
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Why should we committ decent dollars to an unknown NBA quantity? People act like Javotkis is an all-star. Do not we have a euro center under contact already?

It is a forward thinking process. The crappy GM's have never figured this out. New Orleans will be wishing they had in about two years.

By the way, what would this boards reaction have been when Bowen signed? Bowen who! All the wanna be GM's would have blown that one. This Metzger kid could be solid. He is exactly the "fabric" pop likes to work with.
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  #20  
Old 07-14-06, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson50
I thought the initial offer was LLE for 2 years? Where's the 2.5 mil a year coming from?

There was never a LLE offer since the SPurs prefer not to use the LLE this year.
The story early on was the offer would come from the MLE and would be a three year deal similiar to Oberto.
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  #21  
Old 07-14-06, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
Being fiscally responsible is one thing............but it's not as if we are coming off a championship season where we showed we didn't need an athletic young tough center.

Rather, the Dallas series showed us we need a guy like Javtokas.

Let's not nicle and dime the guy that by all appearances is what we were missing.
There is a 6'7" guy that plays pickup at my gym. He runs faster than all of us, and he can dunk more than anyone on the floor. Maybe the Spurs should give him a $3 million flyer, because that is exactly the type of guy we need.

Javtokas plays in Europe. Hardly the home of beefed up centers and physical post play.
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  #22  
Old 07-14-06, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem Spur
Why should we committ decent dollars to an unknown NBA quantity? People act like Javotkis is an all-star. Do not we have a euro center under contact already?

It is a forward thinking process. The crappy GM's have never figured this out. New Orleans will be wishing they had in about two years.

By the way, what would this boards reaction have been when Bowen signed? Bowen who! All the wanna be GM's would have blown that one. This Metzger kid could be solid. He is exactly the "fabric" pop likes to work with.
I gather you meant 'NBA quality' and not 'NBA quantity'.

We know Elson's NBA quality. He sucks. And we're commiting to pay him those decent dollars you're speaking about... there's no sugar coating it.
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  #23  
Old 07-14-06, 12:52 PM
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Well looking at the Panathinkos signing, Robertas only signed for 1 year. And as for lowballing him, that may be the case but since the Spurs were the ones that flew Robertas in and PAID for a orthepedic specialist to operate and repair his leg, thus giving Robertas the chance at playing again...you'd think that he would at least sign as a gesture of goodwill. Manu can attest to the Spurs paying for proven production.
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  #24  
Old 07-14-06, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Maybe that's what the Spurs were doing. Coming in with a low offer to see if he would bite.
Or maybe they felt he would sign because of loyalty?
They did, afterall, help the guy getback his career when they paid all his medical bills a few years ago.
Not only that, but he stayed here through the first part of his rehabilitation and they ultimately catered to him.
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  #25  
Old 07-14-06, 12:53 PM
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I wanted Javtokas as much as anyone but he isnt exactly a "star" in europe. I thought he would fit great with what SA needed but some international people around here didnt seem as high as many of us were. I dont think LLE type money for him to come to the NBA should be considered some "insult". as much as he could have maybe given he isnt a first rounder coming in or any proven NBA guy

not to mention the Spurs basically SAVING the guys freakin career with FREE top medical care. The Spurs had nothing to gain from that because there was no guarantee he would ever play again. most people were shocked when he made it back
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  #26  
Old 07-14-06, 12:54 PM
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1,600,000.00 EUR
Euro = 2,023,366.67 USD
United States Dollars
http://www.spursreport.com/forums/sh...t=58321&page=2 (Javtokas - tarp „Spurs“ ir „Panathinaikos“ (translation needed)) says he got a one year deal

he is a idiot
he signed a one year deal risking injury and a chance at a bigger payday after 2 or 3 years
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  #27  
Old 07-14-06, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amente
There was never a LLE offer since the SPurs prefer not to use the LLE this year.
The story early on was the offer would come from the MLE and would be a three year deal similiar to Oberto.
Thx for clearing this up for me.
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  #28  
Old 07-14-06, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BURPDEXTER
There is a 6'7" guy that plays pickup at my gym. He runs faster than all of us, and he can dunk more than anyone on the floor. Maybe the Spurs should give him a $3 million flyer, because that is exactly the type of guy we need.

Javtokas plays in Europe. Hardly the home of beefed up centers and physical post play.

I am 6'5" and dunked once in a pick-up game at G. Rollie White back in the day. I have made three pointers before and understand the fundamentals of boxing out. I would sign the RLLE (really low level exception).
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  #29  
Old 07-14-06, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem Spur
Why should we committ decent dollars to an unknown NBA quantity? People act like Javotkis is an all-star. Do not we have a euro center under contact already?
hmmm...when they gave an old and lesser talent in Oberto that same decent deal for three years? Wasn't Oberto of unkown NBA quanity?
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  #30  
Old 07-14-06, 12:56 PM
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manu knew more about him
and most likely got his imput in on him

manu is still high on him
he thinks given more minutes he will produce still
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  #31  
Old 07-14-06, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amente
hmmm...when they gave an old and lesser talent in Oberto that same decent deal for three years? Wasn't Oberto of unkown NBA quanity?
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
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  #32  
Old 07-14-06, 12:57 PM
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Oberto might already be a mistake in the eyes of Pop/RC.
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  #33  
Old 07-14-06, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks
manu knew more about him
and most likely got his imput in on him
Give me a friggin break. The Spurs have followed Jak's progress since they drafted him, same with Scola, Ian and others. The Spurs DO THEIR Homework. It's not like they need another player to give them a scouting report on the guy.
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  #34  
Old 07-14-06, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyShrimp
Pop plays hardball. The Spurs hold all the cards in negotiations with players outside the realm of the NBA. The talent level is not the only reason the Spurs continue to draft foreigners. While Javtokas feels the compulsion to pretend like he deserves a contract bigger than the best players in Europe, he scues the fact that Euro teams are forced to shell up more money so their players don't follow their dream of NBA glory. Bottom line, the Scolas and Javtokas' of the world want to play here more than anything else, and right now Pop has the flexability to take advantage of it.
I think this post about hits the nail on the head. The NBA is the best basketball league in the world, and it is every Euro's dream to play at the highest level, so that creates leverage for NBA GM's during contract negotiations. One other aspect that may also be a factor is the fact that although we have seen some very good talent come out of the Europe at the guard and shooting guard positions, there remains MUCH skepticism about the toughness when it comes to bigs such as power forwards and centers.
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  #35  
Old 07-14-06, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson50
Oberto might already be a mistake in the eyes of Pop/RC.
They do which is why they invited JAK to join the team this year.
They are the ones that set the market price based on what they gave Oberto last year.
Jak wasn't big on coming to the NBA, the Spurs knew this. So shouldn't Jak expect the Spurs too make it worth his while if they really wanted him to come.
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  #36  
Old 07-14-06, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
I wanted Javtokas as much as anyone but he isnt exactly a "star" in europe. I thought he would fit great with what SA needed but some international people around here didnt seem as high as many of us were. I dont think LLE type money for him to come to the NBA should be considered some "insult". as much as he could have maybe given he isnt a first rounder coming in or any proven NBA guy
Exactly. I think we give him all sorts of credentials he hasn't necessarily earned. Because we're looking to get certain things, we ascribe all those capabilities to him. Not to say he couldn't be great for us, but it wouldn't have been this year.

My theory: we get both Elson and Butler this year, Elson can be shipped as an expiring contract next year, and then Ian and Jav can get over here for the "transition years" to our next young talents. Unless we sour on them prematurely.
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  #37  
Old 07-14-06, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleo
My theory: we get both Elson and Butler this year, Elson can be shipped as an expiring contract next year, and then Ian and Jav can get over here for the "transition years" to our next young talents.
IMO, along with Scola, you can scratch Jak off as ever being a Spur.
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  #38  
Old 07-14-06, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amente
IMO, along with Scola, you can scratch Jak on ever being a Spur.
Oops Never mind. Bye Jak!

Last edited by kyleo; 07-14-06 at 01:09 PM.
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  #39  
Old 07-14-06, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
IMO, along with Scola, you can scratch Jak on ever being a Spur.
Amente is sadly correct
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  #40  
Old 07-14-06, 01:08 PM
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While known as an athletic jumper and a good shot blocker, Javtokas lacks offensive weaponry outside of his familiar alley-oops and dunk put-backs. And although he look physically intimidating, scouts say he may lack the tough agressiveness needed to do battle in the NBA night in and night out.

This is the guy everybody is so upset about the Spurs not signing? Never played a minute int he NBA, and now the spurs are stupid for not giving him big money without proving himself? after the Spurs did so much for him? I say screw him and the horse he rode in on.
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  #41  
Old 07-14-06, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseacres

This is the guy everybody is so upset about the Spurs not signing? Never played a minute int he NBA, and now the spurs are stupid for not giving him big money without proving himself? after the Spurs did so much for him? I say screw him and the horse he rode in on.
Tell all the fans who believe in him. You're probably 1 of them before the FO did what's "necessary".
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  #42  
Old 07-14-06, 01:15 PM
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wow spurs fo playing hardball neways im not sure why the spurs decided to penny pinch with jak i know he came off a serious injury and his offensive game is somewhat lacking but now who really knows what will happen???i guess like stated earlier we probably will never c what this guy had to offer.Iwonder if he hadnt had the injury if this would even be an issue??
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  #43  
Old 07-14-06, 01:15 PM
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usually, if you want someone to work for you, you offer the same or more than what he can get elsewhere.
euroleague teams have increased the salary of their players a lot. no longer can NBA teams go out and tell players like: ok, we pay you much less than what other players get in the NBA, but it will be more than what you will make in europe anyhow.

this causes a new situation and at this point Spurs really play foul. they use the rights on a player to force him to sign a smaller contract than his market value would be.
they didn't have the rights on Oberto, so they had to offer him a decent contract to get him. it's for sure not megalomaniacal if Javtokas expects compareable money. or the kind of money he is offered by euroleague teams.
and the kind of money many other NBA teams would offer him if he was a FA.

we heard that Scola would have signed for a starting salary of 3 million.
that's ok, that's not exaggerated.
the money Spurs offer ELSON would have been enough to get Scola!
Nocioni was a FA and he started at almost 3 million. otherwise he wouldn't have signed with the Bulls. other teams would have payed the money.
he was a star in europe, but by far not the kind Scola is right now.

did the Bulls argue, sign for cheap and prove yourself in the NBA first? no, they knew what it takes, they signed him and they did one of the steals of the last years. at 3 million/year Nocioni is a bargain.

it looks more and more as if the Spurs try to extort the players they draftet in the 2nd round to sign far below their market value, otherwise they ban those players from the NBA.
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  #44  
Old 07-14-06, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseacres
This is the guy everybody is so upset about the Spurs not signing? Never played a minute int he NBA, and now the spurs are stupid for not giving him big money without proving himself? after the Spurs did so much for him? I say screw him and the horse he rode in on.
Funny how all these Euro guys get much more when they get drafted in the lottery and yet have less experience than Jak or Scola, have done even less in Euro and are even of a lesser known NBA quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineballer
they didn't have the rights on Oberto, so they had to offer him a decent contract to get him.
Good point.
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Old 07-14-06, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tuncaboylu
Javtokas shouldn't think money-first, he didn't do anything in NBA yet.
He would get 2.5 million for 1 year and if he fits to system Spurs would pay him MLE next year. Javtokas made a mistake i think.
I agree.
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Old 07-14-06, 01:18 PM
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they have rules in first round picks
not second

like I SAID STERN HATES THE SPURS
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  #47  
Old 07-14-06, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineballer
it looks more and more as if the Spurs try to extort the players they draftet in the 2nd round to sign far below their market value, otherwise they ban those players from the NBA.
To be fair, it's a lose-lose situation, the Spurs will 'lose' a 2nd-rounder and a potential difference maker if they never bring the guy here. The puzzling part is, what makes Spurs think they'd rather have a lose-lose situation? My guess is ... I don't know.
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Old 07-14-06, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
I wanted Javtokas as much as anyone but he isnt exactly a "star" in europe. I thought he would fit great with what SA needed but some international people around here didnt seem as high as many of us were. I dont think LLE type money for him to come to the NBA should be considered some "insult". as much as he could have maybe given he isnt a first rounder coming in or any proven NBA guy

not to mention the Spurs basically SAVING the guys freakin career with FREE top medical care. The Spurs had nothing to gain from that because there was no guarantee he would ever play again. most people were shocked when he made it back
You are right. It's well that
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Old 07-14-06, 01:27 PM
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reports were insiders that spurs were NEVER high on jav
they said he was not a starter
that is why they did not give him a bigger offer
kind of makes sence
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  #50  
Old 07-14-06, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amente
hmmm...when they gave an old and lesser talent in Oberto that same decent deal for three years? Wasn't Oberto of unkown NBA quanity?
Amente Oberto is a proven international player, olympic gold medal
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