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  #1  
Old 07-13-06, 10:44 AM
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Sorry for starting another thread on this, but...

I just have to say,

The Spurs answer to getting better is NOT through free agency, the draft, sign-and-trades, etc....

The answer is seeing improvement with what we already have...

As stated by a few posters already, the Spurs were just one shot, or one less foul, away from beating Dallas, and likely being back-to-back champs...

The Spurs FO is just being smart...they don't want to spend alot of money on ROLE players, and don't want to tie anybody up to long term contracts..

In order for the Spurs to improve, we need Duncan to stay healthy and mobile, Manu to get stronger (to avoid so much injury) and work on his right hand (much like TP did with his left), and Tony needs to continue to improve his J...if those things happen, we can sign ANYBODY to fill in the gaps at center (for now, until Ian is ready to come over) and backup PG, it doesn't make that much of a difference...

NOBODY can beat us if we see improvement in those areas from our big 3...

Rather than all these threads on RFA's, does anybody know where and what Duncan, Manu, and Tony are doing to improve their game?..
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  #2  
Old 07-13-06, 10:53 AM
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parkers doin eva, hope that helps his game
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  #3  
Old 07-13-06, 10:55 AM
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I don't think Duncan's going to get much better.

Manu just needs to get healthy, shore up his shot a little bit. I think with him it's mostly a confidence drop.

Tony's the one I worry about most. Needs to learn how to shoot.
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Old 07-13-06, 10:59 AM
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No. We need young talent off the bench. Also some kind of starting center.

If we don't have those things, we wear out all the important players, who will be gassed by the time the playoffs roll around.

I don't know why people pretend having the Big 3 alone is enough or we should be happy simply for having them. There's a reason why active rosters have 12 players.
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Old 07-13-06, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSpuRRs21
parkers doin eva, hope that helps his game
It's sure to help his leg strength and stamina
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  #6  
Old 07-13-06, 11:19 AM
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also makes it easier for him to penetrate and dish
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  #7  
Old 07-13-06, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSpuRRs21
also makes it easier for him to penetrate and dish
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  #8  
Old 07-13-06, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l=w
No. We need young talent off the bench. Also some kind of starting center.

If we don't have those things, we wear out all the important players, who will be gassed by the time the playoffs roll around.

I don't know why people pretend having the Big 3 alone is enough or we should be happy simply for having them. There's a reason why active rosters have 12 players.

Ummm.... Most teams have 1 All Star, Lucky teams have 2, like Miami who just won the whole thing. We have 3 plus Mike Fin coming off the bench and I am pretty sure we will have 12 guys on our roster that are pretty talented. Most likely any young talent that comes in right now is not gonna fit in the Spurs system right away and will be sitting on the bench come playoff time anyway. We will still have a pretty deep bench compared to most teams and any center is better than that non-dunking stiff Nesterovic... Your posts make me laugh sometimes
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Old 07-13-06, 11:40 AM
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i'm just curious if people would be more upset if we had resigned Nazr for what the Heat were willing to pay him or by bringing Elson possibly who seems to be an athletic C that can go up and down the court but doesn't do much as far as offense.

Offensively; I don't think we need a C to carry the team. All I can say is when we would go down low to Nazr....I was like...great; another turnover about to happen. Anyway; I think if we can pick up one more guy at the PF position we'll be fine with Elson/Oberto
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  #10  
Old 07-13-06, 11:43 AM
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I don't think it was lack of athleticism that killed them against Dallas. Like Pop said, how athletic do you have to get to score 1-2 more points. And let's face it, no one is going to stay in front of Devin Harris and Terry, not even Bruce. What did the Spurs in was shots not going in at the right time, bad decisions on the players parts, and of course the free throw parade. They weren't outrun by the Mavs, and any team that was supposed to have outrun the Spurs have not been able to do so.

Let's put aside the free agent frenzy and look at what the Spurs lost. Two big men who were worthless most of the time. Can we get that somewhere else? Sure. I will admit that I am disappointed that Javoktas is not coming (for now at least). But he wasn't going to be the savior.
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  #11  
Old 07-13-06, 11:53 AM
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Tony was not gassed. He was dealing with injuries as was Manu. Tim looked fantastic. People are overreacting and its embarrasing. I posted a thread about a month ago regarding Javtokas. I was thrilled that he was potentially coming to play for us but I wasn't sold on him.

As I mentioned, he looks like a genetic freak and can certainly dunk and move his feet BUT he has not dominated in the Euroleague. He's never made an All Euro team.

The times that I did see him on NBA TV, he didn't really look impressive. I think the video from YouTube that circulated around here really got people fired up. The truth is, we could do one of those for Nazr and Rasho. They don't always tell the whole story.

Please folks, let's wait until the season starts before we go off the deep end. We have: Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Michael Finley, Robert Horry and Bruce Bowen. With some help from the other players, that roster is enough to challenge for the Championship.....STILL. We are now trying to acquire complimentary talent.
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  #12  
Old 07-13-06, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason R
I don't think Duncan's going to get much better.

Manu just needs to get healthy, shore up his shot a little bit. I think with him it's mostly a confidence drop.

Tony's the one I worry about most. Needs to learn how to shoot.
I agree, I thought this year was supposed to be a year when Tony started making some outside shots since he had a new shooting coach.
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  #13  
Old 07-13-06, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atownspursfan
The Spurs answer to getting better is NOT through free agency, the draft, sign-and-trades, etc....

The answer is seeing improvement with what we already have...

In order for the Spurs to improve, we need Duncan to stay healthy and mobile, Manu to get stronger (to avoid so much injury) and work on his right hand (much like TP did with his left), and Tony needs to continue to improve his J...if those things happen, we can sign ANYBODY to fill in the gaps at center (for now, until Ian is ready to come over) and backup PG, it doesn't make that much of a difference...

NOBODY can beat us if we see improvement in those areas from our big 3...
I agree the answer is seeing improvement with what we already have but this is more about oberto getting comfortable with is role, Finley getting a better understanding of the Spurs system and everyone playing together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by l=w
No. We need young talent off the bench. Also some kind of starting center.

If we don't have those things, we wear out all the important players, who will be gassed by the time the playoffs roll around.

I don't know why people pretend having the Big 3 alone is enough or we should be happy simply for having them. There's a reason why active rosters have 12 players.
I think we have enough role players if butler and elson deals work out. The primary think we need is a starting center. Elson can start for us with Butler, Oberto, and even Duncan rotating at the center position. We have duncan at the PF with Horry, and Bonner giving him a break. With 3 true point guards in Tony, Beno, and Vaughn all playing a roll, we are good. That leaves Manu, Bowen, Barry, Finley and Williams in the swing positions of SG/SF and even here we can small ball with Tony and Bino or go big with Elson, Duncan, and Bonner.

We have alot of flexibility with extra fouls to give and some better defensive help. Now all we need is for them to get better by having the role players learn the system and everyone play together.
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  #14  
Old 07-13-06, 01:48 PM
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I agree with this post but with some reservation.

Without qualified help from the bench and role players that are good enough to at least allow our big 3 chances to rest...come playoff time... witnessing the same results as last years playoffs will probably become highly likely.

As great as Duncan is...If the Spurs Do Not land another big that can divert attention away or come in and play enough productive relief minutes for Duncan...the Spurs run a higher risk of Duncan wearing down prematurely or worst case scenario...seriously injured.

Manu's style of play...even though exciting and productive...lends itself to injury. As he gets older...the injuries will be more reputitious and lingering.

Parker is young...but having to play almost 40 minutes a game at the pace he plays will wear him out come playoff time. And as we saw last year...there was not a dependable b/u at PG to help spell down time for Parker. His injuries came at the end of the regular season do to fatique and his body breaking down from all the playing time accumulated during the season.

Bowen...It's inevitable that his age is going to create a noticable decline in his production. You could see it happening last year...and...we'll probably start seeing an even more noticable decline next season. It's called getting older and there's nothing that can be done about that unless you have a good b/u in place to tutor and learn the ropes.

Finley is in the same position...his numbers, if lucky, will hopefully remain the same. But don't expect any better.

Horry...he's already past the pinnacle of his career and minutes have to be regulated in order for him to be productive in the playoffs. If he is made to play more than 15 minutes a game during the regular season...don't look for him to be able to contribute at all during the playoffs.

So...while I agree that our big 3 and some of our support players are some of the best in the league...without role players that can effectively contribute in the system...they won't have enough in thier tanks to go all the way and or worse case scenario...become injured towards the end of the season due to being overly used during the regular season. Granted players can get injured at any time...but...the chances are much greater if a player is relied upon too heavily.

It is very important to get more than just fodder as b/u's and role players.
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  #15  
Old 07-13-06, 02:11 PM
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BLAH I'm sick of reading.. "the FO is making bad decisions" "we should get "

I'm only going to say one thing.

GO SPURS GO!
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  #16  
Old 07-13-06, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SF4L
I agree with this post but with some reservation.

Without qualified help from the bench and role players that are good enough to at least allow our big 3 chances to rest...come playoff time... witnessing the same results as last years playoffs will probably become highly likely.

As great as Duncan is...If the Spurs Do Not land another big that can divert attention away or come in and play enough productive relief minutes for Duncan...the Spurs run a higher risk of Duncan wearing down prematurely or worst case scenario...seriously injured.

Manu's style of play...even though exciting and productive...lends itself to injury. As he gets older...the injuries will be more reputitious and lingering.

Parker is young...but having to play almost 40 minutes a game at the pace he plays will wear him out come playoff time. And as we saw last year...there was not a dependable b/u at PG to help spell down time for Parker. His injuries came at the end of the regular season do to fatique and his body breaking down from all the playing time accumulated during the season.

Bowen...It's inevitable that his age is going to create a noticable decline in his production. You could see it happening last year...and...we'll probably start seeing an even more noticable decline next season. It's called getting older and there's nothing that can be done about that unless you have a good b/u in place to tutor and learn the ropes.

Finley is in the same position...his numbers, if lucky, will hopefully remain the same. But don't expect any better.

Horry...he's already past the pinnacle of his career and minutes have to be regulated in order for him to be productive in the playoffs. If he is made to play more than 15 minutes a game during the regular season...don't look for him to be able to contribute at all during the playoffs.

So...while I agree that our big 3 and some of our support players are some of the best in the league...without role players that can effectively contribute in the system...they won't have enough in thier tanks to go all the way and or worse case scenario...become injured towards the end of the season due to being overly used during the regular season. Granted players can get injured at any time...but...the chances are much greater if a player is relied upon too heavily.

It is very important to get more than just fodder as b/u's and role players.

Good Post!

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  #17  
Old 07-13-06, 02:26 PM
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Beating the Mavs could've been as simple as retaining the rotation from the regular season. The way our bench basically fell apart and they went from 9 deep to 6 deep in a heartbeat including losing two centers killed a lot of their game.

Right now the Spurs core is as strong as ever that still means they need their roleplayers. That includes centers that rebound and defend and aren't fat and reliable swingmen off the bench.

It would be better if the Spurs can go back to making teams trying to match up with them instead of vice versa.
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  #18  
Old 07-13-06, 02:36 PM
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Based on last year's shooting improvement, I'd be a lot more concerned with Tony's turnover problems than his shooting next year.
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  #19  
Old 07-13-06, 02:40 PM
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the spurs need a big man.... hope we could get butler and elson
then.. an athletic forward is next
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  #20  
Old 07-13-06, 03:12 PM
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As usual, some of you are missing a concept: TEAM

let me say it again: TEAM. T-E-A-M Repeat and rinse

This being said, this concept means that you need EACH AND EVERY PART OF THE TEAM (yeah, even the role players). And as we are at it, THE BETTER THE PART THAT CONSTITUTE THE WHOLE, THE BETTER THE TEAM.

OK, could somebody explain how we did good without a C? OK, let's move Tim to C, how are we going to do without a PF? And don't tell me dellusional stuff like those 1 point- 2 boards a game Centers are the answer. Any team could double Tim without a problem, our so called "Centers" won't make a basket anyway. They couldn't til now, I don't see how they'll become good all of the sudden.

Now, let's assume Tim gets injured, which isn't strange (knocking on wood). I hope our "small ball" team gets really outstanding, because we have no answers for the PF and C positions. Guess some of you have a quite small memory lapse, but when TD got injured Spurs had to rotate Horry, Nazr and Rasho. And we suffered. Now, if Tim gets injured, our solution is to put Horry, Scola and Javtokas. Wait... no, we didn't get those suckie-suckie. We have (ta-daaah!) Horry, BONNER, ELSON, BUTLER.

I know I'm slow, so I'd like somebody to explain me how these new guys are better than the older guys THAT COULDN'T FIT THE SHOES EITHER.

Bah
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  #21  
Old 07-13-06, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmtcsc
People are overreacting and its embarrasing. I posted a thread about a month ago regarding Javtokas. I was thrilled that he was potentially coming to play for us but I wasn't sold on him.

As I mentioned, he looks like a genetic freak and can certainly dunk and move his feet BUT he has not dominated in the Euroleague. He's never made an All Euro team.

The times that I did see him on NBA TV, he didn't really look impressive. I think the video from YouTube that circulated around here really got people fired up. The truth is, we could do one of those for Nazr and Rasho. They don't always tell the whole story.
Exactly like I said in another thread, you can't find out about a player watching those highlights. I could see Sean Marks doing most of the things that Javtokas did on those in terms of dunks.
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  #22  
Old 07-13-06, 03:45 PM
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butler averaged 5.3, 3.3 in just over 12 min a game with a career high of 22 so he can score he just needs the minutes to be productive
elson just under 5 and 5 in just over 20
if we got 2 periods of butler (24 minutes) and one lot of what elson has been playing (21 minutes) that makes up the centre position and would give us (10.6+4.9) and (6.6 +4.7) from the centre position
i would grab that sort of production with both hands

plus we should keep sean marks to give us an outside shooting big man

and butler in april averaged 9.3 and 5.5 boards in the first month when he got extended minutes

this is what he did in april
min fg 3pt ft or dr tr as st bl to f pts
Apr 19 at Nets 90-83 W 24 2-4 0-0 0-0 2 2 4 1 0 1 5 3 4
Apr 17 vs. Bobcats 91-98 L 18 6-8 0-0 0-0 3 2 5 1 1 0 0 3 12
Apr 16 at Pistons 97-103 L 26 7-11 0-0 4-8 2 7 9 1 0 1 0 2 18
Apr 14 vs. Bucks 80-97 L 22 1-4 0-0 0-0 2 3 5 2 0 1 3 5 2
Apr 13 at Cavaliers 87-91 L 8 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0
Apr 10 at Pacers 82-101 L 14 2-2 0-0 0-0 0 2 2 0 0 0 1 2 4
Apr 09 at Celtics 101-86 W 33 5-7 0-0 0-0 1 6 7 0 0 0 4 3 10
Apr 07 vs. Pacers 98-96 W 23 5-10 0-0 0-0 6 2 8 2 0 0 1 1 10
Apr 05 vs. Cavaliers 96-9 W 21 4-6 0-0 4-8 4 5 9 0 1 0 2 5 12
Apr 04 at Wizards 90-105 L 29 8-11 0-0 6-6 4 4 8 2 0 2 3 3 22
Apr 02 at Sixers 95-114 L 13 4-6 0-0 0-0 1 1 2 0 0 1 0 1 8

knicks were 5-7 on the year when he played 20 + minutes
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  #23  
Old 07-13-06, 04:00 PM
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Duncan wore out at the end of games. A FA can help that if they can get one that will allow Tim to rest. They had no low post threat when Tim was on the bench.

Or Tim can become more super human so he won't wear out.
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  #24  
Old 07-13-06, 04:20 PM
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Duncan wasnt healthy last year during the regular season due to his foot. if he had been healthy Im not sure he would have gotten worn out. He sure didnt look that way in the playoffs

getting rest though during the season is a valid point
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