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  #1  
Old 06-19-06, 10:22 AM
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NBA Backcourt Violation Rules Clarification

http://www.nba.com/media/rule_book_2005-06.pdf

--Begin Quote--
RULE NO. 8
OUT-OF-BOUNDS
AND THROW-IN

{...snip...}

Section III—The Throw-In

{...snip...}

e. Any ball out-of-bounds in a team’s
frontcourt or at the midcourt line
cannot be passed into the backcourt.
On all backcourt and midcourt
violations, the ball shall be awarded to
the opposing team at the midcourt line,
and must be passed into the frontcourt.
EXCEPTION: During the last two
minutes of the fourth period and/or any
overtime period, the ball may be passed
anywhere (frontcourt or backcourt) on
the court.


--end quote---

So No Violation

[EDIT STARTS HERE]
Just want to save some people time, here are two good posts that clarify the issue even more.


Quote:
posted by DizzG

Section VI – g

Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period or (4) anytime the ball is loose.

--

Former NBA ref and NBA finals vet - Mike Mathis - was on the Ticket in Dallas this morning and said there was no backcourt violation...and it was a correct no call. Said the rule had changed recently and the refs made the right call on that one

Last edited by dacat; 06-20-06 at 03:36 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-19-06, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Section VI-Frontcourt/Backcourt
a. A team's frontcourt consists of that part of the court between its endline and the nearer edge of the midcourt line, including the basket and inbounds part of the backboard.
b. A team's backcourt consists of the entire midcourt line and the rest of the court to include the opponent's basket and inbounds part of the backboard.
c. A ball being held by a player: (1) is in the frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt, (2) is in the backcourt if either the ball or player is touching the backcourt.
d. A ball being dribbled is (1) in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the player are in the frontcourt, (2) in the backcourt if the ball or either foot of the player is in the backcourt.
e. The ball is considered in the frontcourt once it has broken the plane of the midcourt line and is not in player control.
f. The team on offense must bring the ball across the midcourt line within 8 seconds. No additional 10-second count is permitted in the backcourt.
EXCEPTION: (1) kicked ball, (2) punched ball, (3) technical foul on the defensive team, (4) delay-of-game warning on the defensive team or (5) infection control.
g. Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, or (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period.

I think he established himself in the backcourt by ... "Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half."

He never had the ball in the frontcourt, so he established backcourt status when he caught the ball and landed in the backcourt.
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  #3  
Old 06-19-06, 10:38 AM
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I think by committee it should be put in motion that D-Wade did NOT in fact commit a backcourt violation and the matter be put to rest.
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  #4  
Old 06-19-06, 10:57 AM
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Who cares if he committed backcourt violation. Mavs fans can cry all they want; they won't be changing it now. Now they feel what we felt.


GO HEAT!
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  #5  
Old 06-19-06, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud786
Who cares if he committed backcourt violation. Mavs fans can cry all they want; they won't be changing it now. Now they feel what we felt.


GO HEAT!
Ya know, I almost hope that the NBA does come out and say that they missed the call. Then the Mavs will know how we felt when the NBA rescinded the technical that the refs called on Fin that contributed to the game going to OT.

That really burns your A$$ to have the league admit that they hosed you, but ... too bad, can't do anything about it now.
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  #6  
Old 06-19-06, 11:10 AM
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um....well, even if it is they can't replay the game, so all that could happen is it will be replayed in _allas a billion times and the Mavs fans will start a "refs suck" chant or something
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  #7  
Old 06-19-06, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
I think he established himself in the backcourt by ... "Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half."

He never had the ball in the frontcourt, so he established backcourt status when he caught the ball and landed in the backcourt.
I believe that frontcourt status is obtained by using 3 points, all of which must be in the front court:

1) Left Foot
2) Right Foot
3) The Ball. The ball is not in the front court until it is dribbled in the front court and therefore established in the front court. You can catch the ball with both feet in the front court and dribble the ball in the back court and still not have obtained frontcourt status.
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  #8  
Old 06-19-06, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dacat
http://www.nba.com/media/rule_book_2005-06.pdf

--Begin Quote--
RULE NO. 8
OUT-OF-BOUNDS
AND THROW-IN

{...snip...}

Section III—The Throw-In

{...snip...}

e. Any ball out-of-bounds in a team’s
frontcourt or at the midcourt line
cannot be passed into the backcourt.
On all backcourt and midcourt
violations, the ball shall be awarded to
the opposing team at the midcourt line,
and must be passed into the frontcourt.
EXCEPTION: During the last two
minutes of the fourth period and/or any
overtime period, the ball may be passed
anywhere (frontcourt or backcourt) on
the court.


--end quote---

So No Violation

for all of the crybabies, THE RULE STANDS !!!!
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  #9  
Old 06-19-06, 01:46 PM
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Hey won't it be hilarious if Stern comes out and says the refs blew that call after the fact. Like he did with the Spurs and some of the bogus calls that were made against us.
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  #10  
Old 06-19-06, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
Actually, it looks like he even got one foot down in the backcourt before catching the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qDdzU8Dxj4
You're looking at the wrong line. That's the outline of the trophy.
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  #11  
Old 06-19-06, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
Wow....you are right......Wade stepped in the front court jumped in the air, caught the ball, landed in the backcourt.

Which end up being a moot point anyway because of the exception rule.

You guys are confusing the "exception" with what the argument really is. They are not saying you can't pass it into the backcourt, they are saying Wade commited a backcourt violation by landing in the backcourt with the ball in his hands. Mavs got screwed. I'm sure most people here are happy.
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  #12  
Old 06-19-06, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
f. The team on offense must bring the ball across the midcourt line within 8 seconds. No additional 10-second count is permitted in the backcourt.
EXCEPTION: (1) kicked ball, (2) punched ball, (3) technical foul on the defensive team, (4) delay-of-game warning on the defensive team or (5) infection control.
Just thought that part was funny.
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  #13  
Old 06-19-06, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hulk
You guys are confusing the "exception" with what the argument really is. They are not saying you can't pass it into the backcourt, they are saying Wade commited a backcourt violation by landing in the backcourt with the ball in his hands. Mavs got screwed. I'm sure most people here are happy.
Wade never established position in the frontcourt. In accordance with exception of the backcourt violation rule, the entire court is open, and until frontcourt position is established, no backcourt violation can occur.

Sure he left the ground in the front court, but didn't gain posession of the ball until he was in the back court. No violation, accurate no-call.
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  #14  
Old 06-19-06, 03:01 PM
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According to some "experts", you are ESTABLISHED where you last had your feet. So, when he got it--after pushing off his left foot in the front court--he was established in the front court, then caught the ball, and next stepped in the back court with his right leg. I agree. Bad call.
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  #15  
Old 06-19-06, 03:09 PM
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It's an interesting situation that I had never thought about before. If you are in the frontcourt, jump in the air, catch an inbounds pass while in the air, then land in the backcourt, did you just commit a backcourt violation?

I really have no idea. I know that if you are out of bounds and jump in the air, catch or touch a ball, then land in bounds, the ball is out off you, because you are not inbounds until your foot (or some part of your body, I guess) makes contact on the floor inbounds.

However, front/back court is different. For example, if you are bringing the ball from back to frontcourt, you can step over the line and go back witnout committing a violation, as long as ball and both feet don't cross over. However, once you are in the frontcourt, the halfcourt line is like an out-of-bounds line -- if you touch on or across the line, or the ball touches on or across the line, it's a backcourt violation.

But.. if you are passing the ball inbounds... no front-court/back-court status has been established. And it's probably not established until either the ball or your foot touches the floor.

So... i'm going with "no violation". We'll see what the league says.
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  #16  
Old 06-19-06, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
I happen to lean towards it being a bad call.....I think Wade was established in the frontcourt where he last touched.

Oh well........I'm sure Cubie can understand that action on the court occurs at breakneck speed and that the referees are only human.

Wade was established in the frontcourt, but possession was not established anywhere. Remember, the ball may be passed ANYWHERE on the court. On the throw in, possession is not established in neither the frontcourt nor the backcourt, and is not established until a player gains possession in bounds.

Quote:
Section VI – g

Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period or (4) anytime the ball is loose

Case closed...not a violation. Cuban and the Mavs can shut the hell up.

Last edited by SAScrub; 06-19-06 at 03:26 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-19-06, 03:27 PM
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it was a violation....wade caught the ball in the front court then jumped over the halfcourt line with the ball already in his possession when he landed in the backcourt


blown call...doesnt bother me tho


he would have been safe if the line he jumped over was the halfcourt line ....maybe he confused the trophy line as the halfcourt line.

Last edited by PHANTOM21; 06-19-06 at 03:31 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-19-06, 03:35 PM
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Remember...

Section VI – g

Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period or (4) anytime the ball is loose.

This means it doesn't matter if he left the ground in the frontcourt. What matters is where he landed with the ball and where he went after that. He caught the ball in the air, and landed in the backcourt. THAT is when possession was established. I'm sticking by my guns that this was not a violation and was the correct no-call.
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  #19  
Old 06-19-06, 03:52 PM
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I thought when I saw it, it was a backcourt, but I'm no expert.

If a player jumps in the air to save a ball on it's way out-of-bounds, his position as out-of-bounds isn't established as such until he touches down. As long as he gets rid of the ball before that, everything is okay. That's gotta fit into one interpretation or another there.
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  #20  
Old 06-19-06, 03:54 PM
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this is the moment wade catches the ball......i really can't tell if he's in the air or not

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  #21  
Old 06-19-06, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
You see....I don't agree.

Consider this:



This is on the same page as the exception rule, it just got

His position was in the frontcourt since "his position is that from which he last touched the floor".

So when he touched down in the backcourt, it was an over&back violation.

Wade might as well have caught the ball at the free throw line and walked it across the midcourt line, same thing.
Quote:
For location of a player in the air, his position is that from which he last touched the floor.
I believe that rule applies specifically for players going out of bounds and the other rules apply on what constitutes a backcourt violation.Those backcourt violation rules would indicate to me that it wasn't a violation.
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  #22  
Old 06-19-06, 03:58 PM
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actually, this is closer to the moment wade catches the ball, feet still on the floor



this pic i posted earlier wade is already in the air.
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  #23  
Old 06-19-06, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
Quote:
Quote : RULE NO. 8-OUT-OF-BOUNDS AND THROW-IN

Section I-Player The player is out-of-bounds when he touches the floor or any object on or outside a boundary. For location of a player in the air, his position is that from which he last touched the floor.

This is on the same page as the exception rule, it just got

His position was in the frontcourt since "his position is that from which he last touched the floor".

So when he touched down in the backcourt, it was an over&back violation.

Wade might as well have caught the ball at the free throw line and walked it across the midcourt line, same thing.
The rule you've posted is in reference to the out of bounds line. Out of bounds plays/rules are different than the backcourt violation rules. If a player jumps in from out of bounds and touches the ball before he touches the legal playing area, the ball is out of bounds.

The rule I posted was specific to backcourt situations and says the player must have the ball and establish position.

Eh...I guess it doesn't matter much now, but it's fun to discuss.
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  #24  
Old 06-19-06, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
You're looking at the wrong line. That's the outline of the trophy.
Jeah I was making that same mistake last night, TVO!
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  #25  
Old 06-19-06, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilboinsa
According to some "experts", you are ESTABLISHED where you last had your feet. So, when he got it--after pushing off his left foot in the front court--he was established in the front court, then caught the ball, and next stepped in the back court with his right leg. I agree. Bad call.

The "you are established where you last had your feet" rule only applies when the ball is in play and in control by either team. There is no team control on a throw in, therefore a player may jump from the front court and catch the ball without violation. I am no "expert", however I do ref high school basketball. The rules are basically the same with a few exceptions...ie the fourth period exception
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  #26  
Old 06-19-06, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dacat
http://www.nba.com/media/rule_book_2005-06.pdf

--Begin Quote--
RULE NO. 8
OUT-OF-BOUNDS
AND THROW-IN

{...snip...}

Section III—The Throw-In

{...snip...}

e. Any ball out-of-bounds in a team’s
frontcourt or at the midcourt line
cannot be passed into the backcourt.
On all backcourt and midcourt
violations, the ball shall be awarded to
the opposing team at the midcourt line,
and must be passed into the frontcourt.
EXCEPTION: During the last two
minutes of the fourth period and/or any
overtime period, the ball may be passed
anywhere (frontcourt or backcourt) on
the court.


--end quote---

So No Violation
good find...hopefully the mavs can shut up about it already.
what rule book was cuban looking at?
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  #27  
Old 06-19-06, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHANTOM21
actually, this is closer to the moment wade catches the ball, feet still on the floor



this pic i posted earlier wade is already in the air.
Man, these pics are sooo clear. I can totally tell if Wade is actually holding the ball, or if Wade's hands are a half-inch away from catching the ball. The detail and quality of the photo makes it so easy to see.
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  #28  
Old 06-19-06, 06:06 PM
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fortunatley you don't have to be an idiot to click on the play button and see for yourself
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  #29  
Old 06-19-06, 08:31 PM
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It was a backcourt violation, and people continue to argue it with the wrong rule (everyone knows you can throw the ball into the backcourt).

I've never liked Wade anyways, so I'll take great satisfaction come Olympics time when he is called for traveling and carrying every time he touches the ball again (LeBron too)
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  #30  
Old 06-19-06, 08:47 PM
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how can you not like Wade? the guy is amazing
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  #31  
Old 06-19-06, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
I think he established himself in the backcourt by ... "Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half."

He never had the ball in the frontcourt, so he established backcourt status when he caught the ball and landed in the backcourt.
Hmmm....I didn't know of this rule. It now seems there wasn't any backcourt violation after all.

However, I believe I have seen a similar (but not identical) situation where a backcourt violation WAS called.

That is when instead of inbounding, the ball is deep in the backcourt, and the guy with it passes it to a teammate who was in the front court, but jumps back, catches the ball in the air, and lands in the back court.

It all adds up to confusion. Naturally the NBA execs should make some public announcement to clear things up, but they won't.
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  #32  
Old 06-19-06, 09:43 PM
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If it was a violation, they may want to wait until the series is over, like they did when they rescinded the technical on Finley.
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  #33  
Old 06-19-06, 09:44 PM
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Well, because of all this commotion, watch the Mavs get called for a backcourt violation in Game 6 (or 7 if there is one). I think Cuban would have puppies right there courtside.
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  #34  
Old 06-19-06, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabugguy
The "you are established where you last had your feet" rule only applies when the ball is in play and in control by either team. There is no team control on a throw in, therefore a player may jump from the front court and catch the ball without violation. I am no "expert", however I do ref high school basketball. The rules are basically the same with a few exceptions...ie the fourth period exception
I believe that in high school ball the difference is you can inbound the ball into the backcourt from a frontcourt out-of-bounds position at any time -- even if you are inbounding from the baseline. In the pros this is only allowed in the last 2 minutes and overtime.
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  #35  
Old 06-20-06, 01:51 AM
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yes....last 2 minutes in the 4th and its not bkvltn
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  #36  
Old 06-20-06, 10:03 AM
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Former NBA ref and NBA finals vet - Mike Mathis - was on the Ticket in Dallas this morning and said there was no backcourt violation...and it was a correct no call. Said the rule had changed recently and the refs made the right call on that one
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  #37  
Old 06-20-06, 10:10 AM
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what does a ref know
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Old 06-20-06, 10:22 AM
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he doesnt work for the NBA anymore so he has no reason to defend them. He knows the rules better than us guessing off reading a few things off the net
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Old 06-20-06, 10:24 AM
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His feet are in the air.. You can see the shadow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHANTOM21
actually, this is closer to the moment wade catches the ball, feet still on the floor



this pic i posted earlier wade is already in the air.
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Old 06-20-06, 10:27 AM
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i know i was only keeding
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Old 06-20-06, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
he doesnt work for the NBA anymore so he has no reason to defend them. He knows the rules better than us guessing off reading a few things off the net
Hey, I don't know about the rest of these guessers in here, but I wasn't guessing. I was stating it pretty matter of factly!
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Old 06-20-06, 10:48 AM
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~GAME OVER~
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Old 06-20-06, 12:56 PM
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Did anybody else hear the Miami crowd take on the "Javie Sucks" chant? I was already rooting for Miami, but now a little piece of my silver and black heart goes out to the people of South Beach. That was great.
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