Was Pop right?

[santys]

Some of us have given Pop hell over his "small ball" play approach against the Mavericks. I was one of those questioning Pop's wisdom in playing small ball. But having looked at the Heat-Mavs series, maybe Pop was right. Miami doesn't seem to match up well playing a center like Shaq or Mourning. You probably need an athletic center like Duncan who can run the floor. Thoughts/Comments???

[spurs2400]

Doesn't matter

[FairWeatherFan]

Pop is always right - or closer to it than anyone else with less than three championship rings. But I agree with spurs2400, it doesn't matter.

[Dunkan21]

let it go

[coyotes_geek]

There's about a half a dozen individual plays from that series which you can point at and say if any one of those plays had gone the Spurs way then we'd be in the finals talking about how brilliant Pop was for being able to beat Dallas at their own style. Small ball wasn't the problem, execution was.

[maddog]

Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

There's about a half a dozen individual plays from that series which you can point at and say if any one of those plays had gone the Spurs way then we'd be in the finals talking about how brilliant Pop was for being able to beat Dallas at their own style. Small ball wasn't the problem, execution was.

A single bounce here or there

You can play big against Dallas, but you have to be able to attack Dirk. Udonis, Rasho and Nazr oare not going to get it done. Dirk has the night off when guarding these guys, and none has a shot at guarding him.

[Rzarector7]

Pop did what he had to do to give them a shot to win the series and it almost worked, infact the last few games it worked really well IMO. I am not mad at Pop at all for doing what he had to do, he knows more than some fan criticizing him for it and gives his team a shot to win.

[DaSlicer]

Originally Posted by maddog

A single bounce here or there

You can play big against Dallas, but you have to be able to attack Dirk. Udonis, Rasho and Nazr oare not going to get it done. Dirk has the night off when guarding these guys, and none has a shot at guarding him.

I have heard this argument hundred times and I have to say if thats the case we will lose to them for the next few years. I just believe you don't go small even if Dirk goes off on Nazr,Rasho,Udonis because you are conceding offensive rebounds to them along with easy layups for their perimeter players. Moreso you let him get his 30-40 because he's going to get his anyways regardless of not if we go big or small. Look at Dallas do you honestly think they believed their scrub bigs DAmpier,Diop, was ever going to get Duncan in foul trouble or go off on him ever offensivelly. The spurs should have conceeded Dirk going off for his 30 plus with our bigs much like Dallas conceeded Duncan going off with their scrubs.
This series not only took out our bigs defensively but it took out Bruce. He was forced to guard a guy who was 5 inches taller then him along with not getting any respect from the refs. Bruce couldn't contain Dirk with all the factors going against him so the spurs pretty much wasted their best defender trying to contain somebody who couldn't be contained under the new rules. So in summary small ball screwed our defense by putting Nazr-Rasho on the bench because they can't guard Dirk since he would go off for 30 plus oops but then again he still went off for 30 plus and Bruce was rendered useless when he could have guarded one of their perimeter players along with giving up offensive rebounds along with layups to the mavs.

[wcsf]

Originally Posted by maddog

A single bounce here or there

You can play big against Dallas, but you have to be able to attack Dirk. Udonis, Rasho and Nazr oare not going to get it done. Dirk has the night off when guarding these guys, and none has a shot at guarding him.

so then, who was it Dirk guarded in the second round? Did he not have much of the nights off anyways? Wasn't it Bowen he was on much of the time?

[doozie]

The Spurs/Mavs series could have just as easily ended with the Spurs moving on. The Spurs were not playing their best but were still able to compete and give themselves a chance to win the series. I dont think you can second guess the decisions that were made.

[mckennaspur1]

Originally Posted by DaSlicer

I have heard this argument hundred times and I have to say if thats the case we will lose to them for the next few years. I just believe you don't go small even if Dirk goes off on Nazr,Rasho,Udonis because you are conceding offensive rebounds to them along with easy layups for their perimeter players. Moreso you let him get his 30-40 because he's going to get his anyways regardless of not if we go big or small. Look at Dallas do you honestly think they believed their scrub bigs DAmpier,Diop, was ever going to get Duncan in foul trouble or go off on him ever offensivelly. The spurs should have conceeded Dirk going off for his 30 plus with our bigs much like Dallas conceeded Duncan going off with their scrubs.
This series not only took out our bigs defensively but it took out Bruce. He was forced to guard a guy who was 5 inches taller then him along with not getting any respect from the refs. Bruce couldn't contain Dirk with all the factors going against him so the spurs pretty much wasted their best defender trying to contain somebody who couldn't be contained under the new rules. So in summary small ball screwed our defense by putting Nazr-Rasho on the bench because they can't guard Dirk since he would go off for 30 plus oops but then again he still went off for 30 plus and Bruce was rendered useless when he could have guarded one of their perimeter players along with giving up offensive rebounds along with layups to the mavs.

I have to agree with this point. Yeah, i'm willing to let the whole argument (and season) go, but I was continually frustrated that the Spurs allowed Dallas to dictate the terms of the games. Maybe going big wouldn't have worked, but it certainly was worth a shot (particularly when Dirk was on the bench).

[coyotes_geek]

Originally Posted by DaSlicer

I have heard this argument hundred times and I have to say if thats the case we will lose to them for the next few years.

We can certainly debate whether or not small ball was the best strategy to use, but this is a completely bogus statement. There was only one game we weren't in down to the last 30 seconds of. That's hardly a sign of using a strategy that is so flawed that it destines us to lose to them for the next few years.

[DaSlicer]

Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

We can certainly debate whether or not small ball was the best strategy to use, but this is a completely bogus statement. There was only one game we weren't in down to the last 30 seconds of. That's hardly a sign of using a strategy that is so flawed that it destines us to lose to them for the next few years.

I think we will lose playing the mavs the next few years if the spurs go small again. First off the Mavs will be more confident after winning a title and this time around they wont **** up against the spurs when they go small. You could also argue this doesn't go to 7 with small ball if Jason Terry doesn't get suspeneded. They will know exactly what to do and will take advantage of the boards again. I also think the spurs played with a lot of heart going small and gave it their all but I don't think they can do that every year with the roster getting older. They were tired as hell in all these games and thats why when it went to OT they couldnt' score simply because they were gassed out.
Also depite being in these games with it it is flawed the defense was absolute crap. To me trying to outscore team is always going to be flawed because you are gambling bigtime espescially against a team that is better offensively. Seriously it had to kill you when the spurs were giving up layups and dunks in all these games along with high FG percentage. I can't recall the last time a team shot 80 percent at the SBC center in a quarter and like 70 percent for the first half like the Mavs did in game 7. To me thats a terrible strategy defensively and that goes to small ball. Pop's defensive schemes were never built for small ball and it was clear throughout this series when our smalls tried to play the roles of Rasho and Nazr by trying to rotate on the baseline only to get dunked on are give up a layup.
Yeah small ball kept us in it and had the ball bounced a different way or had the refs not called bs phantom fouls the spurs could have won. Still its a bad strategy when you have to hope for the refs to not make bad calls at the end or praying for the other team to miss after hitting 10 shots in a row. If the spurs want to win it all again it will come down to defense and not relying on an offensive shoot out with the Mavs. Its really a bad strategy and I hope to never see it again but with Pop you never know what will happen next year. If the spurs do it agian they will lose next time around to the mavs. Its time to scrap it and go back to the old big ball along with adding a few defensive tweaks on the perimeter.

[senorray]

You silly rabbits...

Pop is always right.
Pop is a synonym of right.
Pop = right.
Right on! = Pop on!

Never question Pop again.

[TRslick81]

Its a diffcult mactup for ne1 especially when their 7footer is a legit sf,so of course they have two 7 footers on the floor to our one along with josh howard and spanked us down low on the glass.

Rasho and nazr stunk it up down the stretch neway soo the spurs were stuck between a rock and a hardplace in terms of producton and matchups.What i felt really hurt was we did rely to much on bruce bowen the guy brings alot defensively but killed us because he couldnt score to give us that extra scoring punch againt a team with the fire power of dallas.

I still feel if tony parker was healthy we beat that team but in the end our bench came back to bite us in the ass nazr,rasho ,van exel and horry could not contribute and help out all fading down the stretch

[DaSlicer]

Originally Posted by TRslick81

Its a diffcult mactup for ne1 especially when their 7footer is a legit sf,so of course they have two 7 footers on the floor to our one along with josh howard and spanked us down low on the glass.

Rasho and nazr stunk it up down the stretch neway soo the spurs were stuck between a rock and a hardplace in terms of producton and matchups.What i felt really hurt was we did rely to much on bruce bowen the guy brings alot defensively but killed us because he couldnt score to give us that extra scoring punch againt a team with the fire power of dallas.

I still feel if tony parker was healthy we beat that team but in the end our bench came back to bite us in the ass nazr,rasho ,van exel and horry could not contribute and help out all fading down the stretch

Like I said in the longrun its not a feasible strategy that will help the spurs. Pop has to come up with something new next year because the spurs will get killed if they try it again. Yeah we can say if the ball bounces differently and the refs don't make stupid calls at the end things would be different however it was still 50-50 crapshoot with this strategy. To me thats just not going to cut it along with the spurs defense was terrible because of it. I don't think they can ever win with small ball because in an offensive run and gun scenario the mavs will have a greater chance of winning. Pop needs to find a way to play big or we are going to be in the same spot again praying for the mavs to miss 1 shot after scoring 11-12 in a row along with hoping that the refs don't make a retarded call down the stretch.

[romad_20]

If Javtokas pans out somewhat, we won't have to play small b/c he will be able to go stretches on Dirk. That's a big if through.

[captainlate]

bring on 07. Boycott the 06 FINALS.

[DizzG]

the Spurs were one shot from the NBA finals

and had chances to win that series even before game 7...not to mention the questions that happened in games 3 and 4

that series could have easily gone the other way...despite what people think about not playing Nazr or Rasho

Someone will be in place of Nazr next year and Rasho may or may not be here as well...how SA plays them remains to be seen but even if Dallas wins the title this year I see no reason SA wont have a great shot to knock them off.

[SCdac]

"Right" or "wrong", doesnt change the fact that we still had incredible potential to win the series, despite everything going against us. That in itself should be encouraging to us fans. If anyone was going to take out the Mavs, it would have been the Spurs imo.

Now, do I think the small ball strategy handicapped us from the start? You bet... As DaSlicer said, we just dont play Spurs-defense with a small lineup, it just wont happen. And the (oh so crucial) rebounds, we just simply cant get them.

I'm starting to think its not as much Pops fault, as much as it is the Spurs just simply not having a few key parts (young PF, long SF) to keep up with and adapt to contenders.

[tinman]

There's nothing wrong with what Pop did. We were screwed by the refs dude!

[Jones]

I don't think the Spurs played great "Spurs Defense" at all during the whole regular season, even with Rasho and Nazr playing. The Spurs won a lot of games, but not by shutting people down.

Pop experimented with small ball constantly. I think he saw which way the wind was blowing in regards to the new defensive rules and the inadequacies of his two centers.

Yes, he should have played Nazr some in certain situations to get rebounds but he had already lost all faith in his centers (wrongly or rightly) by that point and wasn't going back.

[Robinson50]

The answer is still wrong. You look at the Heat, the reason they even had a chance to win game 3 was because they outrebounded the Mavs 49-33. The Heat had been playing terrible the whole series but that's the only bright spot in game 3 team-wise. Of course going big doesn't guarantee we'd outrebound the Mavs but the chance is definitely much better.

[curiousspirit]

Rebounding was a problem for the Spurs all season with Nazr/Rasho in the lineup. The impact of rebounding would not have increased much if they played the mavs, but the fouls committed if they covered dirk would have increased their FTs.

But that is neither here nor there since the season is over and we will never know for sure.

Trust Pop. He has won us 3 championships and knows what his team can accomplish a lot more than fan coaches.

[old timer]

Never been one to carp about officiating, but when the NBA admits there was a phantom tech that won a game, I have serious misgivings about not reversing the result even if it would be precedent breaking. That tech alone would have given the Spurs the series and as Pop said when informed of it being rescinded after the fact, "does that mean we won the series in six?" (or words to that effect) We were just not destined to win, end of story. As far as the strategy goes, I think Pop has seen the writing on the wall as far as what the rules have dictated and the direction things need to go. The end result will be that we end up with the horses required to make a race of it.

[coyotes_geek]

Originally Posted by DaSlicer

I think we will lose playing the mavs the next few years if the spurs go small again. First off the Mavs will be more confident after winning a title and this time around they wont **** up against the spurs when they go small. You could also argue this doesn't go to 7 with small ball if Jason Terry doesn't get suspeneded. They will know exactly what to do and will take advantage of the boards again. I also think the spurs played with a lot of heart going small and gave it their all but I don't think they can do that every year with the roster getting older. They were tired as hell in all these games and thats why when it went to OT they couldnt' score simply because they were gassed out.
Also depite being in these games with it it is flawed the defense was absolute crap. To me trying to outscore team is always going to be flawed because you are gambling bigtime espescially against a team that is better offensively. Seriously it had to kill you when the spurs were giving up layups and dunks in all these games along with high FG percentage. I can't recall the last time a team shot 80 percent at the SBC center in a quarter and like 70 percent for the first half like the Mavs did in game 7. To me thats a terrible strategy defensively and that goes to small ball. Pop's defensive schemes were never built for small ball and it was clear throughout this series when our smalls tried to play the roles of Rasho and Nazr by trying to rotate on the baseline only to get dunked on are give up a layup.
Yeah small ball kept us in it and had the ball bounced a different way or had the refs not called bs phantom fouls the spurs could have won. Still its a bad strategy when you have to hope for the refs to not make bad calls at the end or praying for the other team to miss after hitting 10 shots in a row. If the spurs want to win it all again it will come down to defense and not relying on an offensive shoot out with the Mavs. Its really a bad strategy and I hope to never see it again but with Pop you never know what will happen next year. If the spurs do it agian they will lose next time around to the mavs. Its time to scrap it and go back to the old big ball along with adding a few defensive tweaks on the perimeter.

You raise good points, and like I said in my first post debating the decision is perfectly legitimate. However I just don't by into the doom and gloom predictions because next year's Spurs team is not going to be the same as this year's Spurs team. The Spurs are going to make roster moves this offseason and be thinking about the guys up I-35 while doing so. Ideally those moves will swing the pendulum back our way to where it is Dallas trying to match up with us as opposed to us trying to match up with them. But even if they don't, our situation is hardly hopeless. Frankly I think that we are 1 athletic swingman away from being a better small ball team than they are. It's not Spurs basketball to be sure, but it's about winning, and the more styles of games you can play, the more versatile and better team you are.

[spurtime]

The way Dallas spreads the floor and forces one of your bigs to to play alot perimeter defense if you employ a traditional lineup made small ball the only decision for Pop. Some people say that he should have tried the bigger lineup and tested it, but with such a small margin of error in that series, and Pop's ability to read the tea leaves I don't think he wanted to risk giving up a big run to Dallas at any point in any of the games.

[DaSlicer]

Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

You raise good points, and like I said in my first post debating the decision is perfectly legitimate. However I just don't by into the doom and gloom predictions because next year's Spurs team is not going to be the same as this year's Spurs team. The Spurs are going to make roster moves this offseason and be thinking about the guys up I-35 while doing so. Ideally those moves will swing the pendulum back our way to where it is Dallas trying to match up with us as opposed to us trying to match up with them. But even if they don't, our situation is hardly hopeless. Frankly I think that we are 1 athletic swingman away from being a better small ball team than they are. It's not Spurs basketball to be sure, but it's about winning, and the more styles of games you can play, the more versatile and better team you are.

I"m actually a very optimistic guy I was just pointing out that I don't believe the small ball route is the way to go to beat the mavs. I would like to see a return to big ball if that is possible because to me it was pretty discusting to watch the layup drills and dunks in that series come in flurry every game against the spurs. I just HATE small ball with all my heart and don't know if I can take another series where the spurs have to rely on OFFENSE instead of DEFENSE to get it done. Win or lose doesn't worry me but I hope we see a return to playing great defense against the mavs away from having to go back to dreaded small ball. To me it felt like watching a game of NBA jam on hard mode this series with all the baskets traded back and forth and no defense.

[SpursErie]

Originally Posted by TRslick81

I still feel if tony parker was healthy we beat that team but in the end our bench came back to bite us in the ass nazr,rasho ,van exel and horry could not contribute and help out all fading down the stretch

The Spurs had a strong bench rotation during the regular season which frequently bailed out the starters by overcoming their matchup deficit. But sitting Rasho and Nazr and starting Horry and Finley destroyed the rhythm of our bench so I don't think it's fair to criticize the players for struggling with changed or eliminated roles. It was hard to watch because it was unfamiliar and the team lacked the defense and rebounding needed for dominating runs but it almost worked. Maybe the team should be renamed the Transformers.

[bnwhuxley]

Smallball was already an integral part of the Spurs game before the Dallas series. Pop just happened to start with the small lineup instead of bringing it in after a timeout.

We didn't have a physical rebounding swingman (like a Carmelo or even a Devin), so our smallball was structurally incomplete - hopefully that can be addressed. The smalls have to get a little more used to defending the paint, but that can be improved. The backcourt-C combo of Tim, Manu and Tony is ideal for the small lineup - TD in particular is the best C you can find to play smallball around. Spurs smallball can actually be very powerful if the Spurs work at it.

Besides, it is pretty ironic that you want to see the return of great defense, but to you that means let Dirk get his 50. That is no recipe. So let Bruce take out Josh Howard. How are you really going to stop Jason Terry with his variety of release points? Stackhouse? And Dirk going against TD in the traditional matchup will try every trick in the book to get TD in foul trouble.

No. If the Spurs want to play better defense, they will have to work on both individual and team D to get it sharper. Tony, Manu and Bruce all regressed in their individual defense this year. That is something people haven't really mentioned, but is true. Bruce is on the downside, but there is no reason why Tony and Manu can't get back or exceed their previous defensive form.

[pjjrfan]

Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

There's about a half a dozen individual plays from that series which you can point at and say if any one of those plays had gone the Spurs way then we'd be in the finals talking about how brilliant Pop was for being able to beat Dallas at their own style. Small ball wasn't the problem, execution was.

And defense. But Pop is about a solid a coach as there is in the NBA, he isn't perfect, but I gotta believe that Pop did what he did because he saw it as the only way this team would get by the Mavs.

[kingkyle]

pop knows what hes doing

[stickmoore]

THERE ARE TWO ABSOLUTE FACTS WE ALL KNOW
1 SPURS PLAYED SMALL BALL ALL SERIES LONG
2 WE LOST THE SERIES

CASE CLOSED

[bnwhuxley]

Originally Posted by stickmoore

THERE ARE TWO ABSOLUTE FACTS WE ALL KNOW
1 SPURS PLAYED SMALL BALL ALL SERIES LONG
2 WE LOST THE SERIES

CASE CLOSED

Spurs played the bigs in Games 1 and 2. Won Game 1 by 2, lost Game 2 by 21.

[SCdac]

Originally Posted by SpursErie

The Spurs had a strong bench rotation during the regular season which frequently bailed out the starters by overcoming their matchup deficit. But sitting Rasho and Nazr and starting Horry and Finley destroyed the rhythm of our bench so I don't think it's fair to criticize the players for struggling with changed or eliminated roles. It was hard to watch because it was unfamiliar and the team lacked the defense and rebounding needed for dominating runs but it almost worked.

Yeah, I agree. If you told me mid-season that Finley & Horry would be starting in the playoffs and Nazr & Rasho would be ridin-bench, I think I would have laughed in your face. No doubt the "adjustments" destroyed the way we won games all season.

Originally Posted by SpursErie

Maybe the team should be renamed the Transformers.

[stickmoore]

Originally Posted by bnwhuxley

Spurs played the bigs in Games 1 and 2. Won Game 1 by 2, lost Game 2 by 21.

sorry but my boxscores show game 1 , rasho and nazra total of 9 min played
game 2 total of 14 min played.... I don't think that constitutes going big.

[its4u2think]

if Miami wins this series, this question will linger on for a long time. Miami cannot do what Pop did because they dont have capability to play small ball. Also, for us our big guys were not in that great shape to say that it would have changed the outcome. Anyway, personally I feel that Pop should have tried out big ball at least in some games at some stretches.

But neverthless, it is a bygone. There were lot of chances for us to move forward, it was blown out by our own mistakes (I know refs helped too), but playing small ball was not a huge factor.

Anyway, considering the type of threads that get opened up these days in SR, it is not all that bad to ***** about not playing the "big ball"

[bnwhuxley]

Originally Posted by stickmoore

sorry but my boxscores show game 1 , rasho and nazra total of 9 min played
game 2 total of 14 min played.... I don't think that constitutes going big.

Horry. Oberto in Game 2.

Today Miami disrupted Dallas by relying on their zone defense. Now a better question would be why didn't Pop use more zone????

[SCdac]

I think its awesome to see the Heat beat the Mavs with, what I'd call, a regular lineup. No small-ball nonsense for them.

[coyotes_geek]

Just a slight difference between going big with Shaq and going big with either Nazr or Rasho.

[curiousspirit]

Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Just a slight difference between going big with Shaq and going big with either Nazr or Rasho.

No kidding. I sure hope we are not comparing Nazr/Rasho to Shaq. Last game, Wade, a 2 guard, had 13 rebounds so it doesn't always take big men to rebound.

[ronald_perez]

I thought Heat's zone defense worked pretty well against Mavs. Kinda wished we had done that to them just to give them a different look on defense especially with Dirk at top of the post receiving ball and going one on one against defender or Terry coming off that screen going to his right.

[curiousspirit]

I think that most of the time we played zone, we didn't run out on the perimeter shooters in time and they kept hitting their shots.