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  #1  
Old 05-27-06, 03:43 AM
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MVP takes only one shot in the second half in a loss

"The Suns missed 13 of their last 18 shots until Steve Nash scored a meaningless basket in the closing seconds. It was his only points and his only attempt of the second half..."

Nash scored 14 in the first half and his team led by 5. He took one meaningless shot in the second half after the game was decided and his team loses. Interesting to see how the media will spin this one. Was he trying to get his teammates involved? Why would the league MVP take only one meaningless shot the entire second half in a loss?

Last edited by maldoror; 05-27-06 at 04:16 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-27-06, 05:17 AM
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Umm it's pretty simple, he did it for Hasselhoff

He was Star-Struck by him
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Old 05-27-06, 05:55 AM
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what are you trying to imply? what is so funny?

edit...sorry read the post wrong...wasnt trying to be aggressive.

Last edited by GM5K; 05-27-06 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 05-27-06, 05:59 AM
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Now that's an oddly aggressive response to a rather neutral statement.
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Old 05-27-06, 10:32 AM
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I completely agree. If Dirk, Duncan, Kobe or any other "team superstar" takes one shot in the last half of a losing effort, then they are getting blasted in the media today. But nope, Nash will get a free pass on this one.
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Old 05-27-06, 12:56 PM
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This wasn't an elimination game. Certainly Nash should have looked for his shot more, but there's still a tomorrow for the Suns.
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  #7  
Old 05-27-06, 03:25 PM
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A couple of articles addressing the, "Nash only took one shot in the second half of a game, but does not get slandered like Kobe."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...ilydime-060527

Quote:
Howard shines, Suns fade
By Marc Stein, ESPN.com

DALLAS -- This was Josh Howard's night. This was his career night. This was Howard going from game-time decision to game-changer, even though he hadn't shed the hot pack on his ankle -- hadn't even changed into his uniform shorts -- by the time Avery Johnson was running through his final pre-game instructions.

Now for what it wasn't.

This was not some surrender. This was not Steve Nash showing us his Kobe Bryant imitation. This was not a show of mercy to Mark Cuban's team, which is the last team that can expect such a gesture.

So scrap any such suspicions.

The reason Nash attempted only one second-half shot for the Phoenix Suns on Friday night?

There were two reasons, actually.

Reason No. 1: Nash's determination to create shot opportunities for his teammates went too far in this Game 2 and gradually took him out of the crunch-time attack mode he's known to shift into whenever he comes back to Dallas . . . prompting Nash to bash himself afterward for losing his aggressiveness.

Reason No. 2: The Mavericks did what they didn't do in Game 1 by nudging him toward the sidelines more and frequently sending two defenders at Nash after halftime . . . thereby conceding open looks at the 3-point line.

When Phoenix finally cooled off late, to go with the Suns' 1-for-13 freeze from the floor to close the first quarter, Dallas had the impetus to secure a must-have 105-98 triumph that finally gives it a Western Conference finals victory in its own building.

This was the fifth time that the Mavericks tried for it, having lost all three of their home games to San Antonio in the 2003 West finals. Then came Wednesday night's opener against the Suns, in which Nash's late flurry of 10 consecutive points propelled Phoenix to a stunning comeback win and invited memories of the little Canadian's second-round shredding of his old team last spring.

In Game 1, Dallas rarely left 3-point shooters like Tim Thomas and Raja Bell, determined to prevent Phoenix from riddling the hosts with triples. The problem? That gave Nash and Boris Diaw more space in the lane to carve the Mavs up with pick-and-rolls.

A more concerted effort to force the ball out of Nash's hands in Game 2, especially after he had racked up 14 points and eight assists by halftime, meant that the Mavs were opening themselves up to a long-range barrage. But they survived when the Suns missed six of their final seven tries from behind the 3-point arc after a Thomas 3 cut Dallas' lead to 90-87 with 6:03 to play.

"We could have said, 'Don't double him and let him shoot,' " said Suns coach Mike D'Antoni, bristling at questions suggesting that Nash had suddenly strayed from his instructions or instincts.

"But they [wouldn't] listen."
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...sider0527.html

Quote:
Johnson said he didn't work his potions to create some type of magic formula to slow Nash. He just thought the Mavs took more pride in their effort. At times in Game 1, he felt the Suns played five-on-zero out there. That is, they did whatever they wanted. Indirectly, he was referring to Nash.

"(Friday), we were just trying to contain him, and fortunately some of his shots didn't fall," Johnson said. "It's not just Nash. Nash obviously is the head of the snake, but (his teammates) make Nash better just as much as he makes them better."

"We mixed it up," Dallas swingman Jerry Stackhouse said. "We tried to force him down and try to rotate to the shooters and not play two-man basketball."

Suns coach Mike D'Antoni has great confidence in his floor leader. When asked about an opponent's adjustments in previous series, he liked to say, "Steve will figure out." When Nash was criticized, D'Antoni rolled his eyes and defended his star. He took the same tone after Game 2.

Question: Coach, can you survive when Steve takes only one shot in the second half?

"Let's see," D'Antoni said, looking down at the night's stat sheet, repeating the score. "Nope. It's right there."

He continued.

"Guys, you just play the game. We had great shots. We don't do, 'This guy only got two shots. This guy only got four. This guy got 10 points. This guy got 20.' The ball moves. It finds the guy that's open. The guy that's open has to knock it down. It's a simple game; we don't question it."

Tim Thomas emphasized the point.

"Steve was fine," he said. "He was being himself. It's just nature: You get doubled, you give the ball up. That's what point guards do. He relied on his teammates, and we just didn't hit shots."

In Game 1, Nash led a late fourth-quarter surge, finishing with 27 points and 16 assists. In Game 2, he kept waiting for the time to kick-start his charge.

It just never surfaced.

"I'll just have to be conscious of it next time to learn from what happened," he said.
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  #8  
Old 05-27-06, 04:02 PM
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Well yeah its called a double standard. I don't think either should be bashed, but just goes to show that Kobe would get blamed for every and any thing.
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Old 05-27-06, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan2k5
Well yeah its called a double standard. I don't think either should be bashed, but just goes to show that Kobe would get blamed for every and any thing.
If you're going to equate a game two loss with a game seven loss, then I suppose it is a double standard.
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Old 05-27-06, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRJ
If you're going to equate a game two loss with a game seven loss, then I suppose it is a double standard.
Hmm does that matter? No. Any game in the series = the same value a win or loss. If you are saying steve Nash shouldnt try as hard because it was only game 2 maybe you need to think about that. What if our spurs won game 2? we would have been up 2-0 and probably won the series regardless of the refs.
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  #11  
Old 05-27-06, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan2k5
Hmm does that matter? No. Any game in the series = the same value a win or loss. If you are saying steve Nash shouldnt try as hard because it was only game 2 maybe you need to think about that. What if our spurs won game 2? we would have been up 2-0 and probably won the series regardless of the refs.
I understand the absolute value of a single game, but here's the difference. If you don't give your all in game two, you can play better in two days. If you don't give your all in game seven, you can play better in 350 days.

Ideally, players should give their best every game. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen. But when your best player doesn't give their best in an elimination game, that's an even worse scenario. Kobe, who has been brilliant in big games before - think of Game Seven versus the Trail Blazers in 2000 - didn't give his best effort in the Lakers biggest game of 2006.

I don't know why pointing this out makes one a hater.
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  #12  
Old 05-27-06, 05:07 PM
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Odd, to me, that someone would compare Nash to Bryant, in terms of the volume of shots. Nash is a pass-first PG, and Kobe is "mr. I'm going to score 40 points a game".

Regular season stats: Kobe - 27.2 FGA/PG, Nash - 13.4 FGA/PG

The NBA league-leader in assists not taking a huge amount of shots in the 4th doesnt suprise me. The NBA league-leader in scoring not taking a huge amount of shots in the 4th does suprise me. Should Nash have taken more shots? Probably. But I wouldnt quite compare it to a scorer like Bryant totally disappearing in the 4th. Not to mention, Kobe is THE ONLY all-star on his team. He doesnt have a Shawn Marion to go to when he's not scoring.
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Old 05-27-06, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
Odd, to me, that someone would compare Nash to Bryant, in terms of the volume of shots. Nash is a pass-first PG, and Kobe is "mr. I'm going to score 40 points a game".

Regular season stats: Kobe - 27.2 FGA/PG, Nash - 13.4 FGA/PG

The NBA league-leader in assists not taking a huge amount of shots in the 4th doesnt suprise me. The NBA league-leader in scoring not taking a huge amount of shots in the 4th does suprise me. Should Nash have taken more shots? Probably. But I wouldnt quite compare it to a scorer like Bryant totally disappearing in the 4th. Not to mention, Kobe is THE ONLY all-star on his team. He doesnt have a Shawn Marion to go to when he's not scoring.
Those regular season stats right there are meaningless. That Kobe wasn't playing that series and it was obvious if Kobe scored 40+ Lakers would lose. If you even saw the series the games Lakers won Kobe didn't shoot the ball much. Its just hating to get on the guy for not shooting a lot in game 7 when that is what won them 3 games in the series. The game before Kobe shot 30+ times and scored 50 points shooting a high percentage and they lost. Lakers were not gonna win Kobe scoring a lot that was obvious. Lakers loss game 7 for defensive purposes more then anything and nobody but Kobe making any shots even if they were wide open.

I just thought Kobe got unnecessary bashing as he always does. If Kobe shot a lot he would be bashed and as we saw if he didn't he would also no winning for him. While nash cant do nothing wrong seems like.
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Old 05-27-06, 05:42 PM
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I think the reason it is no big deal is that all the players on the Suns can score and shoot from the 3 point line. Nash was double teamed often and had to pass the ball out to his teammates. According to their coach, that is how they play. They don't decide who should take "x" number of shots and who shouldn't. They shoot if they are open and pass if they are not. Simple as that.

With Kobe, not all the players are good scorers/shooters and Kobe has a history of taking over games. I am not bad mouthing the Laker strategy, just stating the facts as I see them. IMO
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Old 05-27-06, 08:21 PM
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The difference is pretty clear -- you put Kobe on the Suns, you have a very very very good team. Kobe is, oh, scoring option 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 on the current iteration of the Lakers. Kobe I believe tried to make a point, and I think he made it. The man can take over a game, but only when he seems to want to do it.

Nash doesn't have to take every shot. Technically the man is still a PG, and he does prefer to pass first as opposed to taking the shot. Even without Amare in the lineup, Phx has a lot of talent that can score.

A double standard really isn't operative in this case. The Lakers and Suns are built completely different. Plus, the Lakers use an offensive set that is used by 0 percent of the rest of the league. The assumptions are different.
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Old 05-27-06, 08:39 PM
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Kobe has a reputation for being a brat. Throwing games in high school, then not shooting the ball last year against the Kings at all after a big deal was made about his shooting. Kobe has brought this on himself.
Nash, on the other, has no history of being afraid to shoot, or has never felt the need to show up his detractors by not shooting.
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Old 05-27-06, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SA Spurs 2006
Umm it's pretty simple, he did it for Hasselhoff

He was Star-Struck by him
Agreed, whenever Hoff is in the house, the Mavs will win.
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Old 05-27-06, 09:34 PM
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Nash was getting doubleteamed, so he passed the ball. What did people expect him to do?

Kobe? As game 7 wore on, Phoenix could actually afford NOT to guard him. That's how involved he decided to make himself.

The difference is astronomical.
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Old 05-27-06, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan2k5
Hmm does that matter? No. Any game in the series = the same value a win or loss. If you are saying steve Nash shouldnt try as hard because it was only game 2 maybe you need to think about that. What if our spurs won game 2? we would have been up 2-0 and probably won the series regardless of the refs.
Now that is the most ridiculous logic I have ever heard in my life!!



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Old 05-27-06, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwhuxley
Nash was getting doubleteamed, so he passed the ball. What did people expect him to do?

Kobe? As game 7 wore on, Phoenix could actually afford NOT to guard him. That's how involved he decided to make himself.

The difference is astronomical.
Anyone who watched that series knew that Kobe couldn't beat the Suns by himself. I've said this before, the only way for the Lakers to beat the Suns is defense. When do the Lakers play their best TEAM defense? When they're ALL involved on the offense and feel like they're contributing. I don't believe Kobe set out to prove a point, but I believe he did make a big one. The Lakers are a good team but to reach the next level they need to bring in more firepower, OR help the other Laker players improve mentally so they can keep their head in the game defensively even when they don't have their offensive game going.
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Old 05-27-06, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglakerfan
Anyone who watched that series knew that Kobe couldn't beat the Suns by himself. I've said this before, the only way for the Lakers to beat the Suns is defense. When do the Lakers play their best TEAM defense? When they're ALL involved on the offense and feel like they're contributing. I don't believe Kobe set out to prove a point, but I believe he did make a big one. The Lakers are a good team but to reach the next level they need to bring in more firepower, OR help the other Laker players improve mentally so they can keep their head in the game defensively even when they don't have their offensive game going.
The problem with the highlighted portion, is that Kobe is ALSO a member of the team and he did not use any effort to create plays for his teammates. He didn't hold on to the ball long enough to draw a double team and kick the ball out. He didn't assist in running any plays that would get the team involved in playing team ball vs hot potato. Kobe did not play team ball because he removed himself from the game while staying on the court. IMO
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Old 05-28-06, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousspirit
The problem with the highlighted portion, is that Kobe is ALSO a member of the team and he did not use any effort to create plays for his teammates. He didn't hold on to the ball long enough to draw a double team and kick the ball out. He didn't assist in running any plays that would get the team involved in playing team ball vs hot potato. Kobe did not play team ball because he removed himself from the game while staying on the court. IMO
Agreed.

Nash on the other hand, finished his "kobe-like" game with 11 assists.
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Old 05-28-06, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousspirit
The problem with the highlighted portion, is that Kobe is ALSO a member of the team and he did not use any effort to create plays for his teammates. He didn't hold on to the ball long enough to draw a double team and kick the ball out. He didn't assist in running any plays that would get the team involved in playing team ball vs hot potato. Kobe did not play team ball because he removed himself from the game while staying on the court. IMO
Then I guess it's just a difference in opinion, because when I watched the game it looked like he drove and dished plenty of times but no one could hit a shot, then he basically gave the ball to Odom to see if he could come up with anything obviously that failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
Agreed.

Nash on the other hand, finished his "kobe-like" game with 11 assists.
Only 3 coming in the second half.
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Old 05-28-06, 08:08 AM
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Well, in the interest of fairness, I went back to take a look at that second half, and Kobe might have had a point. In the 3rd quarter, the Lakers went to Odom on the blocks quite often and that didn't work out. Then they tried Kobe on the pick and roll with the bigs, but the Suns doubleteamed him so he did the right thing by passing.

In the 4th, he wanted to start taking over the game by going one on one, but picked up a pair of offensive fouls early. Thereafter he was again going pick and roll, and the Suns were doubling on him again.

I still think he could have been more aggressive, and certainly the Kobe we all know would have taken on two, three defenders. But I am going to change my mind and say that he didn't give up on the game.
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