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  #151  
Old 05-25-06, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson50
Yeap. They sucked so bad that we played 4 on 5 for the whole season, and yet we still win 63 games, the most in Spurs history, with TD's bad foot and Manu's injures here and there. Yeap. They sucked but somehow the other 4 guys play so well the league should be embarrassed because they let Spurs win game after game playing 4 on 5.

This is an important point. For all of their seeming suckiness...the centers played well enough in the system to enable us to achieve the best record in the western conference (remember Horry played little in the regular season).

The problem is the particular matchup with Dallas and the challenge a perimeter big (who now drives on occasion) like Nowitski places on our defensive system, particularly with the able slashers Dallas has. Its a real challenge that requires more reads and footwork from our bigs than usual. Obviously Pop didn't feel confident they could handle it under playoffs pressure. We'll never know.
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  #152  
Old 05-25-06, 03:02 PM
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Those that simply want to lay this situation at Pop's feet and say "It's his fault" are simply reaching for an excuse other than the simple truth: Nazr stunk it up for a substantial part of the season.

In his contract year, he seemed unprepared, disinterested and at times, lazy. He never really resembled the sparkplug that helped propel the Spurs to the 2005 championship.

Nazr supporters will point out - "Horry wasn't in 2005 form either" and that's fair to say. However, unlike Mohammed - Horry also brings a load of intangibles that didn't always show up in the box score. Even as his age advances, he remains one of the most savvy players on the team and while is not immune from making mistakes, he's not prone to making mistakes as Mohammed has been.

Horry has made a career of playing big in the playoffs. Before coming to SA - Nazr had 7 games of career playoff experience! It wasn't a question of simply "2005 form", but the fact that Horry was still a player that did enough things well to keep Pop's trust.

Say what you will about Rasho and his play (and most of that criticism is probably fair) - but the fact is RASHO HAS HIS CONTRACT. Nazr needed to prove he was WORTH such a contract and he needed to play extremely well this season to do that.

He didn't.

This situation isn't Pop's fault - it was Nazr's. He could have come in to camp in great shape. Yes, I realize there was a personal issue with his son, but from what we were told - that was fine after a few weeks, Nazr struggled through the majority of an 8 month season.

He could have come into the season after a summer of studying game film of the last Spurs season, and even past seasons, and learned the defensive schemes backwards and forewards. Instead, he came into the season appearing as lost as he was his first week after leaving New York.

He could have come into the season ready to battle for his starting spot, instead of assuming that Pop was simply going to hand it to him and he was going to keep it - because of the 2005 NBA Title run. Instead, he was replaced by Rasho Nesterovic and didn't reclaim that starting spot for the next 4.5 months.

Instead of building on his accension to the starting five, and the great month and a half of Feburary and March, he seemed to regress in April and was soon being outplayed again by Rasho Nesterovic.

All of this happened before that infamous three that he hit against Sacramento in Game 1 of that series. The shot that supposedly put Nazr in Pop's doghouse and why Pop sacrificed the 2006 championship to stick it to Nazr. Yeah, right.

I'm so sick of hearing about that game Nazr had against Sacramento as an example of his great play or "agressive play". I've pointed it out earlier and I'll say it again: it was a mirage. 18 pts 8 rebs, yes. But almost all in garbage time, LONG after the game was decided in the first half. Again, for those that simply care to remember the box score and the win, here it is:

A. Mohammed had 6 pts and 4 rebs with nearly 10:41 left in the third quarter and the Spurs leading 77-43.

B. By the end of the quarter, Mohammed had tallied 10 pts;5 rebs and the Spurs led by 27 pts.

C. Pop brought Mohammed back into the game at 5:24 mark of the 4th quarter, with SA leading 109-79. He scored his final 8 pts and grabbed 3 rebs in the final 4 minutes of the game, while the Spurs enjoyed a 30 point lead, and brought his final game tally to 18 pts 8 rebs.

Nazr really played great in that game didn't he? That 18/8 really turned the game in our favor. Some may want to call that "agressive play" - I call it what it is: stat padding in garbage time. If Mohammed is such a valuable player to the Spurs - why would they risk an injury to him by leaving him on the floor in the last 5 minutes of a 30 point blowout?

Face facts: Spurs fans grossly overestimated this guy as a player in the same manner as they did Stephen Jackson. He simply was not as good as Spurs fans thought he was. Like Jackson, he brought plenty of energy - but his basketball IQ and intelligence are simply NOT there.

Blaming anyone other than Nazr Mohammed for the situation he's in is simply assanine.

He could have done tons of things differently to ensure he got his rightful PT - but he didn't. He played well very sporadically and at times, flat out sucked. He did absolutely nothing to prove to coaches that he could elevate his game again as he had in 2005.

Which is unfortunate for the Spurs, but even more unfortunate for Nazr Mohammed. The person he hurt most with his inconsistent play was himself.


Last edited by RichB; 05-25-06 at 03:18 PM.
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  #153  
Old 05-25-06, 03:13 PM
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Great post Rich
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  #154  
Old 05-25-06, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyspurslover
eff that guy.

bring back rose.
How bout we leave them both alone?
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  #155  
Old 05-25-06, 03:21 PM
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Keep up the F****** GREAT posts RichB
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  #156  
Old 05-25-06, 03:37 PM
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How many games did we win this year?

Rasho played 1520 minutes this season (19mpg for 80 games)
Nazr played 1392 minutes this season (17.4mpg for 80 games)
Horry played 1184 minutes this season (18.7mpg for 63 games)

Obviously he wasn't so huge a liability or our ability to win games would have been affected.

I'm not claiming he's anything more than an average NBA center (never have).

The fact remains he and Rasho were effective competing against Dampier and Diop in the regular season. We won both matchups against the Mavs where they totaled over 34 min (combined) and lost both when they both totaled less than 20 (combined).

I understand why Pop did what he did and I respect it. Nazr (and Rasho too) are far from being players that will take over a game -in and of themselves-. They are, however, capable role players in the Spurs system. Nazr is NOT Menke Bateer , Rasho is NOT Cherokee Parks. I would have liked to see if they could be effective against the Mavs in the playoffs.
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  #157  
Old 05-25-06, 03:44 PM
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nice comeback
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  #158  
Old 05-25-06, 03:51 PM
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good post Rich
Nazr is definitely not bateer and he does have value.
However another way of looking at it is this way- Nazr will be 29 next season and probably with his 5th team.
5 teams before the age of 30. He is what he is- a journeyman. A good player to have on the team. Has faults (hands, lowish BB IQ, somewhat small) and some pluses (energy rebounding). I thought he might progress under the Spurs, but he didn't.
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  #159  
Old 05-25-06, 03:53 PM
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so good players are bad?
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  #160  
Old 05-25-06, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog
good post Rich
Nazr is definitely not bateer and he does have value.
However another way of looking at it is this way- Nazr will be 29 next season and probably with his 5th team.
5 teams before the age of 30. He is what he is- a journeyman. A good player to have on the team. Has faults (hands, lowish BB IQ, somewhat small) and some pluses (energy rebounding). I thought he might progress under the Spurs, but he didn't.
AJ was a journeyman. It doesn't necessarily mean your not able to contribute. It can be an indicator of trouble fitting in...or just as easily a result of fiscal pressures amoung the teams a player finds themself on/traded to.
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  #161  
Old 05-25-06, 04:06 PM
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The season is over. Nazr is gone. He paid his own way out of SA. Its too bad, he has potential, but watching him throughout the season, it seemed like he was slacking.

On the fliip side, Rasho puts in the effort, but i'm afraid he's as good as he's ever going to get. Which ain't much.
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  #162  
Old 05-25-06, 04:08 PM
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I am sure Nazr is frustrated since he basically sat the entire Mavs series. He will be gone this summer.
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  #163  
Old 05-25-06, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural Anesthetist
Ironic that we win 2 titles with centers that suck so bad most can't wait for them to leave town... and we lose this year when Pop refuses to play the sucky centers.
That is pretty much spurfans in a nutshell when a guy plays well and helps them win he's an all-star but when he's put on the bench along with the possibliity of leaving his past accomplishments are diminished and he's called a crappy below average player. The reality is Rasho and Nazr aren't all-stars by any stretch but at the sametime they aren't crap either. Both are very solid look at the mavs centers Dampier-Diop and can you honestly tell me on skill level they are better then Rasho and Nazr? The answer is no I would be willing to say our centers are slightly better then theres but never got any playing time due to the small ball experiment. They aren't crap and everybody in here will be missing them if the spurs don't get any solid centers to come in and replace them. Moving Duncan to the center spot is not the answer to me considering the team defense will get even more weaker if the spurs decide to go this small ball route. Teams will have field days doing what Dallas did knowing that there is no other big inside the lane to prevent or block their way from getting inside of the paint.
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  #164  
Old 05-25-06, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSlicer
That is pretty much spurfans in a nutshell when a guy plays well and helps them win he's an all-star but when he's put on the bench along with the possibliity of leaving his past accomplishments are diminished and he's called a crappy below average player. The reality is Rasho and Nazr aren't all-stars by any stretch but at the sametime they aren't crap either. Both are very solid look at the mavs centers Dampier-Diop and can you honestly tell me on skill level they are better then Rasho and Nazr? The answer is no I would be willing to say our centers are slightly better then theres but never got any playing time due to the small ball experiment. They aren't crap and everybody in here will be missing them if the spurs don't get any solid centers to come in and replace them. Moving Duncan to the center spot is not the answer to me considering the team defense will get even more weaker if the spurs decide to go this small ball route. Teams will have field days doing what Dallas did knowing that there is no other big inside the lane to prevent or block their way from getting inside of the paint.
Since Dalls has a 7 foot power foward who can hit threes with the best there still would have only been one big guarding the paint.
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  #165  
Old 05-25-06, 04:30 PM
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I have a problem with alot of this. Nazr may be gone, but quit pretending that he was the only one to be blamed for this comedy of errs involving his situation this year.

I have seen players make or break their season in one Playoff Series. Just one. Heck, I have seen players bust out and earn a fat contract off of one measly playoff series. So why in the world did we not give Nazi the chance to do this??

For those of you out there who still do not understand why we lost to dallas let The NBA Logo tell you why:

Offensive Rebounding!

We were completely dominated on the offensive boards all series long and not in one single game did we keep the Mavs off their glass.

No other statistical category sticks out or points to such an obvious correlation. Not a one.

The Mavs destroyed us all series long. They grabbed a total of 79 off boards. That is over 11 a game. Meanwhile we grabbed a measly 54 off rebounds. In total rebounds we lost the battle 285 to 250. So in the series we were outrebounded by 35 with 25 of those being offensive.

Freaking incredible.

Heck, I care little for the drama between Pop and Nazi all season long. All I know is that he could have helped us where we needed it most when we needed it most. Yet someone was too stubborn to budge.

-J.W.
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  #166  
Old 05-25-06, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog
Since Dalls has a 7 foot power foward who can hit threes with the best there still would have only been one big guarding the paint.
I still believe you let Dirk shoot all the jumpers in the world while clogging the lanes with 2 7fters Duncan-Rasho or Duncan-Nazr. Yes he can make jumpshots but giving up jumpers is better then giving up layups to him and allowing him to shoot over guys that are 6-10 inches smaller then him. Let him get hot while forcing their perimeter guys to shoot jumpers instead of getting layups. Thats one thing I don't get is we keep on talking about how the spurs couldn't stop Dirk and thats why they needed to go small. Thats just not good logic sure he would have gone off if they went big but its not about him its about stopping their perimeter guys from getting layups and dunks for free at the basket. Nazr-Rasho could have both fouled out every game but it would have still been better because of how the defensive scheme would have changed. Dirk shot freethrow attempts that were above 10 or more just about every game in this series. He's going to the line regardless because of the way officials are calling it so there is no way to stop him.
They might as well focused on stopping the other guys and thats where small ball failed it couldn't stop their perimeter players from getting easy layups and dunks.
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  #167  
Old 05-25-06, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSlicer
I still believe you let Dirk shoot all the jumpers in the world while clogging the lanes with 2 7fters Duncan-Rasho or Duncan-Nazr. Yes he can make jumpshots but giving up jumpers is better then giving up layups to him and allowing him to shoot over guys that are 6-10 inches smaller then him. Let him get hot while forcing their perimeter guys to shoot jumpers instead of getting layups. Thats one thing I don't get is we keep on talking about how the spurs couldn't stop Dirk and thats why they needed to go small. Thats just not good logic sure he would have gone off if they went big but its not about him its about stopping their perimeter guys from getting layups and dunks for free at the basket. Nazr-Rasho could have both fouled out every game but it would have still been better because of how the defensive scheme would have changed. Dirk shot freethrow attempts that were above 10 or more just about every game in this series. He's going to the line regardless because of the way officials are calling it so there is no way to stop him.
They might as well focused on stopping the other guys and thats where small ball failed it couldn't stop their perimeter players from getting easy layups and dunks.
That is exactly on the money.

We couldn't stop any penetration, and when Timmy (who Pop relied on to do too much, reminded me of poor lebron in that game 7 vs the Pistons) would stop the penetration, the Mav's TWO 7-footers would clean up the glass.

We go big, we stop the layup fest, we clean the boards and we let them try to beat us by shooting jumpers.

-J.W.

PS- Just figured it out.

1 in 4!!

We gave up 1 off rebound for every 4 Mav's misses. Unfreaking real. The actual ratio is 79 off boards to 294 fg misses --->>> 1:3.72

You telling me Rasho or Nazr wouldn't have helped with that??
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Last edited by TheLogo; 05-25-06 at 04:45 PM.
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  #168  
Old 05-25-06, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSlicer
I still believe you let Dirk shoot all the jumpers in the world while clogging the lanes with 2 7fters Duncan-Rasho or Duncan-Nazr.
Not sure about anyone else, but if I'm Nowitzki and I see Nazr or Rasho guarding me... I'm taking it to the hole.
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  #169  
Old 05-25-06, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilite Kid
Not sure about anyone else, but if I'm Nowitzki and I see Nazr or Rasho guarding me... I'm taking it to the hole.
He's taking it to the hole with Bowen/Finley on him also, it's just that he can muscle in instead of using his speed. Either way with how the refs treat him he's either going to score or go to the foul line. For 1 or 2 possessions, Bowen may be able to shut him down but definitely not consistently.
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  #170  
Old 05-25-06, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilite Kid
Not sure about anyone else, but if I'm Nowitzki and I see Nazr or Rasho guarding me... I'm taking it to the hole.
Where he meets Duncan.
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  #171  
Old 05-25-06, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural Anesthetist
Where he meets Duncan.
Then passes to Duncan's man.
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  #172  
Old 05-25-06, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnac The Magnificent
Then passes to Duncan's man.
Take off the charm... it didn't work game 7.
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  #173  
Old 05-25-06, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson50
He's taking it to the hole with Bowen/Finley on him also, it's just that he can muscle in instead of using his speed. Either way with how the refs treat him he's either going to score or go to the foul line. For 1 or 2 possessions, Bowen may be able to shut him down but definitely not consistently.
Yeah thats the problem most of the fans in here forgot whats spurs defense is. Its funneling perimeter players into two 7 footers thus forcing them to shoot jump shots. All I keep on hearing the spurs had to shut down Nowitzki. When has the spurs been about focusing on shutting down one player. The answer is never. When they played the Lakers the focus wasn't abut shutting down Shaq who was just too dominant to do that even with Drob guarding him he still shot over 50 percent and got 30-10. The focus was to shut down his supporting cast. To me this crap about having to shut down Dirk is bs. The guy was going to get his regardless so it really doesn't matter who guards him but I rather have Nazr and Rasho do it so they can clog the lanes and force guys like Stackhouse,Harris,Terry,Howard to shoot jumpers instead of getting layup drills everytime at will. Having Nazr and Rasho out there also prevents Dirk and Dampier,Diop from getting a bunch offensive rebounds aftear a miss. Everytime during this serise I saw one of their guys drive to the hoop and when they missed somebody was able to get an offensive rebound due to Duncan having to focus on the slasher enable guys like Diop,Dampier,Dirk to get bs putbacks.

Also when has Dirk ever been a great slasher you guys make him sound like the second comming of David Robinson on offense. The guy has alwasy been a jump shooter it was only during series he kept on driving to the hoop due to being played by smaller guys. I don't think he can go to the basket for a whole entire game driving to me he just doesn't have the stamina to do that. By the 4th quarter he would be burned out and tired. Unfortunately we will never know this considering Pop refused to experiment with out bigs. Spurs needed to dare Dirk to score 40 plus every game by playing the bigs much like the mavs dared Duncan to go off every game. I just don't get that feeling Dirk would be able to carry all that weight every game.
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  #174  
Old 05-25-06, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesR
Putting Rasho/Nazr on Dirk would lead to them getting in foul trouble rediculously fast.

If Bowen was constantly saddled with fouls before halftime, imagine how effed Rasho/Nazr would be. And Dirk is NOT the guy you want on the line.
Until proven nobody knows how bad it would have been. When we had Bowen and Mike on him he still got to the line too many times. Really how much worse could it have gotten since he's always shooting more then over 10 freethrows. I think the reality is the spurs might have to get another 7fter and just deal with the fact all 3 would get in foul trouble against Dirk much like the Mavs were willing to deal with Duncan getting Dampier,Diop,KVH all in foul trouble but at the sametime refusing to go small.
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  #175  
Old 05-25-06, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnac The Magnificent
Then passes to Duncan's man.
Who is promptly stripped by Ginobili.
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  #176  
Old 05-25-06, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Report from credible source at the arena.
On the way out, Nazr was heard to say:

"Thank God!
I'm out of here."
Another credible source stated:
Pop will coach the Las Vegas Gamblers of the PeeWee Basketball League next year ... guaranteed. Oh and that Duncan/Ginobili/Parker trade for Wilt's Ghost is still on.

Nazr isn't Spur material.
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  #177  
Old 05-25-06, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural Anesthetist
How many games did we win this year?

Rasho played 1520 minutes this season (19mpg for 80 games)
Nazr played 1392 minutes this season (17.4mpg for 80 games)
Horry played 1184 minutes this season (18.7mpg for 63 games)

Obviously he wasn't so huge a liability or our ability to win games would have been affected.

I'm not claiming he's anything more than an average NBA center (never have).

The fact remains he and Rasho were effective competing against Dampier and Diop in the regular season. We won both matchups against the Mavs where they totaled over 34 min (combined) and lost both when they both totaled less than 20 (combined).

I understand why Pop did what he did and I respect it. Nazr (and Rasho too) are far from being players that will take over a game -in and of themselves-. They are, however, capable role players in the Spurs system. Nazr is NOT Menke Bateer , Rasho is NOT Cherokee Parks. I would have liked to see if they could be effective against the Mavs in the playoffs.
In the first win in Dec, they started Darrell Armstrong and Marquis Daniels (instead of Devin Harris and Josh Howard who both didn't play).

In second win in Mar, they started Adrian Griffin (instead of Devin Harris who didn't play).

You might still have a case, but you are going to have to find better evidence than what happened in those two meaningless regular season wins.
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  #178  
Old 05-26-06, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural Anesthetist
Who is promptly stripped by Ginobili.
... or beats the slow-moving Finley.
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  #179  
Old 05-26-06, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLogo
That is exactly on the money.

We couldn't stop any penetration, and when Timmy (who Pop relied on to do too much, reminded me of poor lebron in that game 7 vs the Pistons) would stop the penetration, the Mav's TWO 7-footers would clean up the glass.

We go big, we stop the layup fest, we clean the boards and we let them try to beat us by shooting jumpers.

-J.W.

PS- Just figured it out.

1 in 4!!

We gave up 1 off rebound for every 4 Mav's misses. Unfreaking real. The actual ratio is 79 off boards to 294 fg misses --->>> 1:3.72

You telling me Rasho or Nazr wouldn't have helped with that??
Solid.
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  #180  
Old 05-26-06, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSlicer
Yeah thats the problem most of the fans in here forgot whats spurs defense is. Its funneling perimeter players into two 7 footers thus forcing them to shoot jump shots. All I keep on hearing the spurs had to shut down Nowitzki. When has the spurs been about focusing on shutting down one player. The answer is never. When they played the Lakers the focus wasn't abut shutting down Shaq who was just too dominant to do that even with Drob guarding him he still shot over 50 percent and got 30-10. The focus was to shut down his supporting cast. To me this crap about having to shut down Dirk is bs. The guy was going to get his regardless so it really doesn't matter who guards him but I rather have Nazr and Rasho do it so they can clog the lanes and force guys like Stackhouse,Harris,Terry,Howard to shoot jumpers instead of getting layup drills everytime at will. Having Nazr and Rasho out there also prevents Dirk and Dampier,Diop from getting a bunch offensive rebounds aftear a miss. Everytime during this serise I saw one of their guys drive to the hoop and when they missed somebody was able to get an offensive rebound due to Duncan having to focus on the slasher enable guys like Diop,Dampier,Dirk to get bs putbacks.

Also when has Dirk ever been a great slasher you guys make him sound like the second comming of David Robinson on offense. The guy has alwasy been a jump shooter it was only during series he kept on driving to the hoop due to being played by smaller guys. I don't think he can go to the basket for a whole entire game driving to me he just doesn't have the stamina to do that. By the 4th quarter he would be burned out and tired. Unfortunately we will never know this considering Pop refused to experiment with out bigs. Spurs needed to dare Dirk to score 40 plus every game by playing the bigs much like the mavs dared Duncan to go off every game. I just don't get that feeling Dirk would be able to carry all that weight every game.
Yet another in a long list of VERY logical arguments about why the big men should have been used.

Other side's trypical response: "Because Pop said so and Pop know what he's doing."

Popycock!

Quote:
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Take off the charm... it didn't work game 7.
It worked fine.. Then Manu fouled Dirk.
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  #181  
Old 05-26-06, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bnwhuxley
In the first win in Dec, they started Darrell Armstrong and Marquis Daniels (instead of Devin Harris and Josh Howard who both didn't play).

In second win in Mar, they started Adrian Griffin (instead of Devin Harris who didn't play).

You might still have a case, but you are going to have to find better evidence than what happened in those two meaningless regular season wins.
Seeing that Devin and Howard were parading down the lane all series (with Horry actually moving out of the way on a couple of occasions) I would love to have seen these guys rejecting some shots at the rim (and getting some boards).

They matched up well on Diop and Dampier... and :op they would have helped our perimeter defense in that the perim defenders could concentrate on protecting the middle lane and the big guys would give the second line defense at the rim for those who went baseline (aka Spurs Defense--easy to know but hard to conquer)

Just because the Mavs change some of their perimeter players does NOT mean we have to sit our Centers...this is obviously the base difference of opinion.

This debates kind of been beat to death and most comments now just serve to restate the same basic points in slightly different ways.

I just wish we had atleast tried it at some point...that way we would KNOW.
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  #182  
Old 05-26-06, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural Anesthetist
Seeing that Devin and Howard were parading down the lane all series (with Horry actually moving out of the way on a couple of occasions) I would love to have seen these guys rejecting some shots at the rim (and getting some boards).

They matched up well on Diop and Dampier... and :op they would have helped our perimeter defense in that the perim defenders could concentrate on protecting the middle lane and the big guys would give the second line defense at the rim for those who went baseline (aka Spurs Defense--easy to know but hard to conquer)

Just because the Mavs change some of their perimeter players does NOT mean we have to sit our Centers...this is obviously the base difference of opinion.

This debates kind of been beat to death and most comments now just serve to restate the same basic points in slightly different ways.

I just wish we had atleast tried it at some point...that way we would KNOW.
We already know. Whenever we play the big lineup, Tim has to defend Josh Howard. The Mavs then give Howard the ball one-on-one EVERY SINGLE TIME until Pop changes his lineup. Avery has acquired this "milking of individual matchups" tendency from Nellie, and Pop knows that.

Tim is our best post help-defender, but he can't help if he's the one being attacked. Meanwhile the Mavs still have two 7 footers out there to grab offensive rebounds if Howard penetrates, draw the other big, and misses.

They will kill the Spurs with Howard or they will kill the Spurs with offensive rebounds. That lineup just won't do.
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  #183  
Old 05-26-06, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwhuxley
We already know. Whenever we play the big lineup, Tim has to defend Josh Howard. The Mavs then give Howard the ball one-on-one EVERY SINGLE TIME until Pop changes his lineup. Avery has acquired this "milking of individual matchups" tendency from Nellie, and Pop knows that.

Tim is our best post help-defender, but he can't help if he's the one being attacked. Meanwhile the Mavs still have two 7 footers out there to grab offensive rebounds if Howard penetrates, draw the other big, and misses.

They will kill the Spurs with Howard or they will kill the Spurs with offensive rebounds. That lineup just won't do.
Thats what help D is FOR. Thats the WHOLE POINT of having two 7 footers on the floor. Tim doesn't have to pickup the foul when Josh drives. He lets him go and the other big man rotates over and the other players make their rotations ..thats how the Spurs system WORKS. An individual match-up WILL NOT BEAT THE SPURS (*cough* Amare Stoudemire *cough*).
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  #184  
Old 05-26-06, 05:37 PM
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Didn't Nazr turn down a contract extension and then fail to catch almost every pass thrown in his direction? Screw Nazr he should go get a big contract from Isiah.
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  #185  
Old 05-26-06, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by raindrops80
Didn't Nazr turn down a contract extension and then fail to catch almost every pass thrown in his direction? Screw Nazr he should go get a big contract from Isiah.

been there...done that.
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  #186  
Old 05-26-06, 07:05 PM
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With Narz/Rasho in the lineup, Spurs would have had only three offensive threats since they can't seem to score much and Bruce didn't do so well offensively. That would have meant more double teaming on the big three and less scoring opportunities for the Spurs. IMO. Also, Nazr/Rasho had not exactly been great at getting rebounds the whole season. Yea, in spurts one or the other did fine, but not consistently. They would have also been a liability on mav fastbreaks. IMO. Defensively, we would have been in the penalty much sooner because they are not quick enough to keep up with the mav's small lineup. IMO.
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  #187  
Old 05-26-06, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by curiousspirit
With Narz/Rasho in the lineup, Spurs would have had only three offensive threats since they can't seem to score much and Bruce didn't do so well offensively. That would have meant more double teaming on the big three and less scoring opportunities for the Spurs. IMO. Also, Nazr/Rasho had not exactly been great at getting rebounds the whole season. Yea, in spurts one or the other did fine, but not consistently. They would have also been a liability on mav fastbreaks. IMO. Defensively, we would have been in the penalty much sooner because they are not quick enough to keep up with the mav's small lineup. IMO.
Its not like Damp and Diop were scoring powerhouses for the Mavs so Obviously it can be done.

Tony, Manu, and Tim with Fin subbing in for Bowen on occasion can keep up the Mavs offensively especially if we are making stops, altering shots, and getting boards.

With the Mavs being smaller I think Nazr and or Rasho would have done better than average on the boards--especially in inspired playoff ball.

As far as fast breaks go...they didn't have much problem with the Suns last year and they were much better at that than the Mavs.

Its conjecture that we would have done better...its also conjecture that we would have done worse. W-e w-i-l-l n-e-v-e-r k-n-o-w.
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  #188  
Old 05-26-06, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural Anesthetist
Thats what help D is FOR. Thats the WHOLE POINT of having two 7 footers on the floor. Tim doesn't have to pickup the foul when Josh drives. He lets him go and the other big man rotates over and the other players make their rotations ..thats how the Spurs system WORKS. An individual match-up WILL NOT BEAT THE SPURS (*cough* Amare Stoudemire *cough*).
Thats not how the system works.

You have two 7-footers being help defenders. How does that work? Well, sometimes one guy goes for the block, and the other guy cleans up the board. Other times, both guys go for the block off the backboard, which they can then also clean up.

But when Josh Howard is attacking TD off the dribble, you only have ONE 7-footer help defender who won't be TD. TD is totally taken out of the defense. It isn't going to work.
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  #189  
Old 05-27-06, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bnwhuxley
Thats not how the system works.

You have two 7-footers being help defenders. How does that work? Well, sometimes one guy goes for the block, and the other guy cleans up the board. Other times, both guys go for the block off the backboard, which they can then also clean up.

But when Josh Howard is attacking TD off the dribble, you only have ONE 7-footer help defender who won't be TD. TD is totally taken out of the defense. It isn't going to work.
First off..Thats one additional 7 footer than we had as we played the series.

Secondly..I disagree that it takes Duncan completely out of the play. He is a man of size and Josh still has to get around his position , how Duncan establishs position and how Josh chooses to get around DUncs position dictates the way the Spurs rotate to defend. Your notion of Spurs defense is too narrow...what you describe is part but not all of how it can work.

Third...IF Dunc closes out on Howard the defense can bet on him putting it on the floor as shooting over Dunc would be a low percentage shot. Anticipating and limiting the offensive players choice of maneuvering is a HUGE part of being successful on defense. The drive becomes easier to defend because it is anticipated earlier.
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  #190  
Old 06-04-06, 08:55 AM
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How will the Spurs and Buck Harvery spin this one?

I just hoe the Spurs can slavage this situation somehow.

The last time a big free agent walked away without any compensation it was not pretty.

http://www.spursreport.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=56094 (New Report: Mohammed could sign with Bulls)
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  #191  
Old 06-04-06, 09:09 AM
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Hmmm didn't notice this was still going on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernatural Anesthetist
First off..Thats one additional 7 footer than we had as we played the series.
But only one 7-footer is playing help D. That's not the bread and butter Spurs defense.

Quote:
Secondly..I disagree that it takes Duncan completely out of the play. He is a man of size and Josh still has to get around his position , how Duncan establishs position and how Josh chooses to get around DUncs position dictates the way the Spurs rotate to defend. Your notion of Spurs defense is too narrow...what you describe is part but not all of how it can work.
The few regular season games where TD was defending Howard, Howard absolutely demolished him. Mavs also used Howard to abuse Yao in last year's playoffs.

Dribble penetration is hard enough to contain, but you simply can't expect your F/C to stop Howard's dribble penetration. TD will foul out in the first half or give up a layup every time!

Remember too that since TD isn't the help defender anymore, the help defense isn't going to be that effective. Rasho or Nazr or a small aren't going to cover for TD the way TD can cover for them.

Quote:
Third...IF Dunc closes out on Howard the defense can bet on him putting it on the floor as shooting over Dunc would be a low percentage shot. Anticipating and limiting the offensive players choice of maneuvering is a HUGE part of being successful on defense. The drive becomes easier to defend because it is anticipated earlier.
Like the Spurs don't know that Devin Harris or Jason Terry or even Dirk were going to put it on the floor.

Besides, putting it on the floor is Howard's preferred option. Putting TD on him is simply inviting him to do what he does best. That is a huge part of Unsuccessful defense.
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Last edited by bnwhuxley; 06-04-06 at 09:12 AM.
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  #192  
Old 06-04-06, 09:46 AM
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Nazr was a big part of our title run. If he had regained that form, he'd have been great. Unfortunately it looks like he didn't/can't and is gone. If he really said that, it's classless, but I have no hard feelings. He helped us, and I'm glad we had him. The deal to bring him here for Malik Rose was still awesome. We lost Malik's huge contract, and won a title thanks to Nazr's solid play at the cost of 2 **** picks.

Bring in Scola and Javtokas.
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  #193  
Old 07-05-06, 10:07 AM
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Famous last words in Spurs history...

From Nazr Mohammed upon elimination by Dallas- as reported here that night:

"Thank God!
I'm out of here."
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  #194  
Old 07-05-06, 10:13 AM
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wait till he gets his you're the guy that replaced ben reception in detroit, barely makes the playoffs and gets eliminated in the first round every year. see what he says then.
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  #195  
Old 07-05-06, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hantler
huh? I'm sorry but I can't just take your source's word for it that he said it, especially if you won't name this source.
I agree! It was reported last night on KSAT 12 that Nazr was offered a similar contract to what he received from Detroit and his decision to leave was due to playing time! He was upset that he was unable to play against Dallas and playing time was the key to him signing with Detroit!
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  #196  
Old 07-05-06, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Can't say I blame him. Not really.
I agree. Pop made this season tough for him when he failed to agree to a contract extension last summer.
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  #197  
Old 07-05-06, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SpursErie
I agree. Pop made this season tough for him when he failed to agree to a contract extension last summer.
Wrong. Pop made it tough on him because Nazr couldn't grasp the system. Hardly anyone signs contract extensions these days because it's usually not in your financial best interests to do so. It's a business and Pop understands that.
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Old 07-05-06, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy
I agree! It was reported last night on KSAT 12 that Nazr was offered a similar contract to what he received from Detroit and his decision to leave was due to playing time! He was upset that he was unable to play against Dallas and playing time was the key to him signing with Detroit!
That contract KSAT alluded to was the extension the Spurs offered last fall which was a 4 year deal and Nazr said then that he didn't want to agree to it because he could probably get an extra year out of it if he became a free agent this summer.
The starting salary was similiar that's about it. The Spurs didn't want to go beyond 4 years and you know Pop never promised PT.
As many of us said, the Spurs and Nazr truly parted company after that Mavs eries game 7 and not yesterday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotes_geek
Wrong. Pop made it tough on him because Nazr couldn't grasp the system. Hardly anyone signs contract extensions these days because it's usually not in your financial best interests to do so. It's a business and Pop understands that.

Correct.

Spurs are limited to what they can offer in an extension per CBA rules and thus most all of non-rookie contract players ignore such an extension. I never expected Nazr to agree to such an extension last fall. Spurs FO knows this as well.
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  #199  
Old 07-05-06, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amente
That contract KSAT alluded to was the extension the Spurs offered last fall which was a 4 year deal and Nazr said then that he didn't want to agree to it because he could probably get an extra year out of it if he became a free agent this summer.
The starting salary was similiar that's about it. The Spurs didn't want to go beyond 4 years and you know Pop never promised PT.
As many of us said, the Spurs and Nazr truly parted company after that Mavs eries game 7 and not yesterday.




Correct.

Spurs are limited to what they can offer in an extension per CBA rules and thus most all of non-rookie contract players ignore such an extension. I never expected Nazr to agree to such an extension last fall. Spurs FO knows this as well.

Playing time was the key to him signing with Detroit according to Greg Simmons last night! He probably would've signed with the Spurs as long as he had playing time instead of sitting on the bench. I guess Pop couldn't promise him that and so he went elsewhere. Greg Simmons said that the Spurs offered him 5 million a year, but playing time was the key issue.
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  #200  
Old 07-05-06, 06:55 PM
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Any coach who "promises" playing time is either a fool or a liar. That's just an excuse because Naz never grasped the Spur's defensive system.
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