Nazr... What he said on the way out

[GameFan2k5]

Originally Posted by DizzG

He had opportunities this year and wasnt the same player as last season. Him coming back to the Spurs or not wasnt going to be decided with the Mavs series. I would say the majority of people around here didnt want him back regardless.



Pop always has a choice. He's the coach and does what he wants. He didnt have to play Nazr or put him back as the starter if he didnt want too.

I dont hate Nazr...and he had a nice playoffs last year...but SA can do better. He has worse hands than Malik and doesnt have his heart.

SA can do better??? They have almost no money, they need a backup PG, they traded their 1st round pick to NY for Nazr, and which Center is on the Market? I'm assuming you weren't happy with Rasho either...

[highplainsspur]

Originally Posted by GameFan2k5

we'll pay for it now, no 1st round draft pick when there are some good PGs we could hav used.

It was at the 4 or 5 spot that the Mavs killed us. We need to sign a rebounder who is quick enough to guard a Nowitzki or Stoudemire. In a perfect world, Scola would be that man.

[spurs000001]

come on guy's, do you realize what your saying when ya say we shouldn't have Traded for Nazr ?

That means Isiah Thomas did a "good" trade. And that just doesn't even sound right.

[Twilite Kid]

Originally Posted by Robinson50

Not the time, if we actually figured out how to stop the Mavs without them. But we didn't, we're giving up a lot of layups and rebounds to the Mavs the whole series.

Hello? This has been beaten to death. ZONE.

Sorry, I missed your ZONE thread when we won games 5 and 6.

But really, I think you should send your resume to the Spurs, I'm sure they'll fire Pop once they realize you're available.

[DizzG]

Originally Posted by GameFan2k5

SA can do better??? They have almost no money, they need a backup PG, they traded their 1st round pick to NY for Nazr, and which Center is on the Market? I'm assuming you weren't happy with Rasho either...

for what NAzr is going to demand this offseason SA CAN do better with spending their money. hell...Nazr is on the list of most people's posts tonight on who should be gone next year. Its pretty clear most Spurs fans dont think SA should pay him big money to keep him

[Robinson50]

Originally Posted by DizzG

He had opportunities this year and wasnt the same player as last season. Him coming back to the Spurs or not wasnt going to be decided with the Mavs series. I would say the majority of people around here didnt want him back regardless.

Pop always has a choice. He's the coach and does what he wants. He didnt have to play Nazr or put him back as the starter if he didnt want too.

I dont hate Nazr...and he had a nice playoffs last year...but SA can do better. He has worse hands than Malik and doesnt have his heart.

Don't want to retype what I just said. I already explained. Bottom line is that we used Nazr/Rasho combo to win 63 games, the most in Spurs history and that combo deserved at least 1 game during the Mavs series to prove that's not right for the series. They're never given the chance, period.

[Twilite Kid]

I'll give $5 and a bag of Cheetos to keep Nazr.

[coyotes_geek]

Originally Posted by Robinson50

No way. The word 'choice' you mentioned is just the kind of choice between being shot or listen to the shooter. Nazr was playing well, if he's not given the starting job Pop won't be able to sustain his reputation in the locker room for being a coach that plays guys who's playing the best and without bias.

So in other words, instead of actually being a coach who plays the guys who are playing the best he's a coach who plays the guys who are playing the best so that he can have a reputation of being a coach who plays the guys who are playing the best. Makes perfect sense.

[Robinson50]

Originally Posted by Twilite Kid

Sorry, I missed your ZONE thread when we won games 5 and 6.

I'm sure you haven't read my posts after game 5 and 6. I continue to criticize Pop even when we won. I'm not the kind of poster who only come out and criticize when the Spurs lose games. I come out and criticize when they're wrong.

But really, I think you should send your resume to the Spurs, I'm sure they'll fire Pop once they realize you're available.

Don't pull this card seriouly. It's also been beaten to death, just because Pop is a better coach overall then all of us here doesn't mean he won't make mistakes that we can't recognized. It's basic logic.

[DizzG]

Originally Posted by Robinson50

Don't want to retype what I just said. I already explained. Bottom line is that we used Nazr/Rasho combo to win 63 games, the most in Spurs history and that combo deserved at least 1 game during the Mavs series to prove that's not right for the series. They're never given the chance, period.

That doesnt change the fact Nazr wasnt the same player this year as he was last or that rather he played in the Mavs series wouldnt have anything to do with SA keeping him or not

Its not Pop's fault that Nazr didnt have a good season

I continue to criticize Pop even when we won

I dont think you have ever had anything good to say about Pop actually..everything is always about what he is wrong on

[RichB]

Originally Posted by spurssheriff

Nazr had a chance to extend his contract with the Spurs. The moment he said he's take his chances in the free agent market and declined the offe, he got on Pop's sh*t list.

The Spurs decided that they were going to make sure not to give him any opportunities to showcase for a better contract somewhere.

Can you blame the guy for being pissed?

Gimme a break.

I suppose that it was Pop's fault that Mohammed couldn't suffeciently learn defensive schemes in his second year here. He obviously struggled with this all season.

I suppose it was Pop's fault Mohammed couldn't handle a decent pass and not pump fake his way into a turnover.

I suppose it was Pop's fault that Mohammed played his way out of the starting spot in camp, not get it back until Feburary and basically play his way out of it again by April.

I suppose it is Pop's fault that Mohammed (on a per 48 min basis) is 4th on the team in turnovers, behind Duncan, Ginobili and Parker (players who handle the ball at LEAST three times more than Mohammed ever does).

I suppose it was Pop's fault that Mohammed led the team in fouls this season (220 total) - only 1 PF ahead of Tim Duncan (219 total) who played 1,397 more minutes than Mohammed. Most nights it seemed he could simply not defend without fouling.

You may want to blame Pop for Nazr's horrible season - but the reality is he has no one to blame but himself. He merely exposed himself for what he really was: average.

I said from last summer that Spurs fans were giving Mohammed the "Stephen Jackson treatment". IE; Grossly overrating a player who helped us win a championship.

Mohammed was as sporadic last season as he was this year, but he did manage to play well at critical times. This year, much was expected of him and he failed to deliver. Big time. Again, he was grossly overrated by fans who felt that he was the answer to our problem at center.

He has played for four different teams in his career and now will probably play for a fifth. There is a reason for that and it's not because he was some stellar player at the center position. He came to a good situation that featured one of the greatest players of all-time and two stellar young guards. He played his role - but he wasn't the reason we won an NBA Championship.

He is, was and always has been exactly what I said he was: mediocre.

His reported inability to handle the PT situation this year and (if true) the way he handled his exit tonight shows only that he lacks real character as well as great skill.

[Robinson50]

Originally Posted by DizzG

That doesnt change the fact Nazr wasnt the same player this year as he was last or that rather he played in the Mavs series wouldnt have anything to do with SA keeping him or not

Its not Pop's fault that Nazr didnt have a good season

That I can agree. He doesn't have a good season overall. And yet he and Rasho were still good enough to play center position and helped us win 63 games. Pop put our centers into the fringe and just pray for the best. That's just not the best solution given the circumstances, even if we beat the Mavs, we'd be beating them with our hands tied.

I dont think you have ever had anything good to say about Pop actually..everything is always about what he is wrong on

If he's doing the right thing there are a million posts to praise him, what's the point of coming out and repeat what everybody is saying? I don't come to this forum to say things everybody already know, that will be pointless.

[SRJ]

Originally Posted by RichB

Gimme a break.

I suppose that it was Pop's fault that Mohammed couldn't suffeciently learn defensive schemes in his second year here. He obviously struggled with this all season.

I suppose it was Pop's fault Mohammed couldn't handle a decent pass and not pump fake his way into a turnover.

I suppose it was Pop's fault that Mohammed played his way out of the starting spot in camp, not get it back until Feburary and basically play his way out of it again by April.

I suppose it is Pop's fault that Mohammed (on a per 48 min basis) is 4th on the team in turnovers, behind Duncan, Ginobili and Parker (players who handle the ball at LEAST three times more than Mohammed ever does).

I suppose it was Pop's fault that Mohammed led the team in fouls this season (220 total) - only 1 PF ahead of Tim Duncan (219 total) who played 1,397 more minutes than Mohammed. Most nights it seemed he could simply not defend without fouling.

You may want to blame Pop for Nazr's horrible season - but the reality is he has no one to blame but himself. He merely exposed himself for what he really was: average.

I said from last summer that Spurs fans were giving Mohammed the "Stephen Jackson treatment". IE; Grossly overrating a player who helped us win a championship.

Mohammed was as sporadic last season as he was this year, but he did manage to play well at critical times. This year, much was expected of him and he failed to deliver. Big time. Again, he was grossly overrated by fans who felt that he was the answer to our problem at center.

He has played for four different teams in his career and now will probably play for a fifth. There is a reason for that and it's not because he was some stellar player at the center position. He came to a good situation that featured one of the greatest players of all-time and two stellar young guards. He played his role - but he wasn't the reason we won an NBA Championship.

He is, was and always has been exactly what I said he was: mediocre.

His reported inability to handle the PT situation this year and (if true) the way he handled his exit tonight shows only that he lacks real character as well as great skill.

Perfectly put.

To that, I'll only add that when he did produce something it ended up looking good, like an occasional block or a dunk. Too much bad happened between the two, but with a certain casual segment of the Spurs fan population, that was sufficient. Loud play will always play better with the casual fan than quiet play.

[StatMan]

Originally Posted by Twilite Kid

I'll give $5 and a bag of Cheetos to keep Nazr.

With a name like "Twilite", I will give you a tutu and some slippers. Where are you from LA? Maybe you are just a Lakers fan trying to trick us?

[Twilite Kid]

Bottom line:
Nazr isn't that good. He's a good backup center.
Rasho isn't that good. Ditto.
But we take these guys and make them starters because that's all we have. We won last year NOT because of how good they are, but because how good the Big 3 are.

Beno isn't that good. He's a good 3rd PG. Maybe in a few years he'll improve.

Pop ultimately made the right decision to play small ball. I'll back him up. Sure its not our game, but with Rasho or Nazr, we would have been torched. Playing zone on defense is used only when you CAN'T make outside shots. Dallas can and they proved it. Those guys can shoot... and I hate that team.

[DizzG]

Originally Posted by RichB

Gimme a break.

I suppose that it was Pop's fault that Mohammed couldn't suffeciently learn defensive schemes in his second year here. He obviously struggled with this all season.

I suppose it was Pop's fault Mohammed couldn't handle a decent pass and not pump fake his way into a turnover.

I suppose it was Pop's fault that Mohammed played his way out of the starting spot in camp, not get it back until Feburary and basically play his way out of it again by April.

I suppose it is Pop's fault that Mohammed (on a per 48 min basis) is 4th on the team in turnovers, behind Duncan, Ginobili and Parker (players who handle the ball at LEAST three times more than Mohammed ever does).

I suppose it was Pop's fault that Mohammed led the team in fouls this season (220 total) - only 1 PF ahead of Tim Duncan (219 total) who played 1,397 more minutes than Mohammed. Most nights it seemed he could simply not defend without fouling.

You may want to blame Pop for Nazr's horrible season - but the reality is he has no one to blame but himself. He merely exposed himself for what he really was: average.

I said from last summer that Spurs fans were giving Mohammed the "Stephen Jackson treatment". IE; Grossly overrating a player who helped us win a championship.

Mohammed was as sporadic last season as he was this year, but he did manage to play well at critical times. This year, much was expected of him and he failed to deliver. Big time. Again, he was grossly overrated by fans who felt that he was the answer to our problem at center.

He has played for four different teams in his career and now will probably play for a fifth. There is a reason for that and it's not because he was some stellar player at the center position. He came to a good situation that featured one of the greatest players of all-time and two stellar young guards. He played his role - but he wasn't the reason we won an NBA Championship.

He is, was and always has been exactly what I said he was: mediocre.

His reported inability to handle the PT situation this year and (if true) the way he handled his exit tonight shows only that he lacks real character as well as great skill.

great post

[Twilite Kid]

Originally Posted by StatMan

With a name like "Twilite", I will give you a tutu and some slippers. Where are you from LA? Maybe you are just a Lakers fan trying to trick us?

Dude, ****.

[StatMan]

Interesting. Pop ultimately made the right decision? Hmm...you liked us losing? What line-up did we use in game one? Did we win that one or did we make the right decision?

[Robinson50]

Originally Posted by Twilite Kid

Pop ultimately made the right decision to play small ball. I'll back him up. Sure its not our game, but with Rasho or Nazr, we would have been torched. Playing zone on defense is used only when you CAN'T make outside shots. Dallas can and they proved it. Those guys can shoot... and I hate that team.

There's no proof that we'd be torched, we won 63 games with centers in our lineup, they're given 0 mintues almost every game in this series. And if you have me to choose between letting the Mavs get layups and offensive rebounds or letting them get outside looks? I'd let them get outside looks everyday.

[Twilite Kid]

Originally Posted by RichB

Gimme a break.

I suppose that it was Pop's fault that Mohammed couldn't suffeciently learn defensive schemes in his second year here. He obviously struggled with this all season.

I suppose it was Pop's fault Mohammed couldn't handle a decent pass and not pump fake his way into a turnover.

I suppose it was Pop's fault that Mohammed played his way out of the starting spot in camp, not get it back until Feburary and basically play his way out of it again by April.

I suppose it is Pop's fault that Mohammed (on a per 48 min basis) is 4th on the team in turnovers, behind Duncan, Ginobili and Parker (players who handle the ball at LEAST three times more than Mohammed ever does).

I suppose it was Pop's fault that Mohammed led the team in fouls this season (220 total) - only 1 PF ahead of Tim Duncan (219 total) who played 1,397 more minutes than Mohammed. Most nights it seemed he could simply not defend without fouling.

You may want to blame Pop for Nazr's horrible season - but the reality is he has no one to blame but himself. He merely exposed himself for what he really was: average.

I said from last summer that Spurs fans were giving Mohammed the "Stephen Jackson treatment". IE; Grossly overrating a player who helped us win a championship.

Mohammed was as sporadic last season as he was this year, but he did manage to play well at critical times. This year, much was expected of him and he failed to deliver. Big time. Again, he was grossly overrated by fans who felt that he was the answer to our problem at center.

He has played for four different teams in his career and now will probably play for a fifth. There is a reason for that and it's not because he was some stellar player at the center position. He came to a good situation that featured one of the greatest players of all-time and two stellar young guards. He played his role - but he wasn't the reason we won an NBA Championship.

He is, was and always has been exactly what I said he was: mediocre.

His reported inability to handle the PT situation this year and (if true) the way he handled his exit tonight shows only that he lacks real character as well as great skill.

I'm glad there are some people here who actually know something about the Spurs and basketball.

[StatMan]

Twilite, your insight is so beneficial. Maybe we should continue to breakdown your thoughts...? Keep the wisdom coming.

[Benchwarmer]

Ah, yes. Unsubstantiated hearsay. Four stars!

[DizzG]

Originally Posted by StatMan

Interesting. Pop ultimately made the right decision? Hmm...you liked us losing? What line-up did we use in game one? Did we win that one or did we make the right decision?

The Spurs were within a shot of winning the series...Would Nazr and his turnovers and pumpfakes have made the difference?

[GameFan2k5]

Originally Posted by DizzG

for what NAzr is going to demand this offseason SA CAN do better with spending their money. hell...Nazr is on the list of most people's posts tonight on who should be gone next year. Its pretty clear most Spurs fans dont think SA should pay him big money to keep him

You said SA can do better? Maybe your seeing players I'm not. Who are you thinking and for what price? Scola? He's could be the next Oberto, that'll really help against the Mavs.

[DizzG]

Originally Posted by StatMan

Twilite, your insight is so beneficial. Maybe we should continue to breakdown your thoughts...? Keep the wisdom coming.

what exactly have you offered?

[Twilite Kid]

Originally Posted by Robinson50

There's no proof that we'd be torched, we won 63 games with centers in our lineup, they're given 0 mintues almost every game in this series. And if you have me to choose between letting the Mavs get layups and offensive rebounds or letting them get outside looks? I'd let them get outside looks everyday.

But we didn't have to play the Mavs for 82 games. Since when did Nazr and Rasho become synoymous with gritty D and rebounding?

[Robinson50]

Oops.

[intlspurshk]

Pop need to bear most of the responsibility absolutely. We knew what Naza can do in last year playoff. Failure to get the best out of your key players is the coach's fault. AJ did that and won. Pop failed and sucked.

We can't judge Naza based on what he said in one situation. We didn't know what happened betweeen Pop and Naza. Nevertheless, he did suck in the playoff and we all happy to let him go. But please don't make judgement on his personality just because of that statement.

[DizzG]

Originally Posted by GameFan2k5

You said SA can do better? Maybe your seeing players I'm not. Who are you thinking and for what price? Scola? He's could be the next Oberto, that'll really help against the Mavs.

Scola and Oberto are not the same type of player. Scola is 26 for one thing and much more athletic. I would either bring him over or if that isnt going to happen you package his rights in a deal. I also would sign robertas Javtokas

do you think Nazr is worth keeping for his likely price?

You seem to have some notion SA cant do anything this offseason

[SRJ]

The only downside to Nazr leaving is that Rasho will struggle in a game next season and some will clamor for the return of Kareem Abdul-Mohammed.

[Twilite Kid]

Originally Posted by DizzG

The Spurs were within a shot of winning the series...Would Nazr and his turnovers and pumpfakes have made the difference?

[DizzG]

We knew what Naza can do in last year playoff. Failure to get the best out of your key players is the coach's fault. AJ did that and won. Pop failed and sucked.

That makes no sense. Because Nazr was one thing last year doesnt mean he came into this year being the same player. its not Pop's fault Nazr didnt have a good season and RichB's post laid that out very well

[Robinson50]

Originally Posted by Twilite Kid

But we didn't have to play the Mavs for 82 games. Since when did Nazr and Rasho become synoymous with gritty D and rebounding?

I don't know what you're talking about, we didn't have to play any team for 82 games, it's irrelevant, a lot of teams during the regular season go small against us too, we never 'adjusted' by playing Nazr/Rasho ZERO minutes.

[RichB]

Originally Posted by DizzG

The Spurs were within a shot of winning the series...Would Nazr and his turnovers and pumpfakes have made the difference?

Exactly.

I didn't agree with the "small ball" approach to the Mavs and it will be second guessed forever by Spurs fans. Including myself.

I would have liked the bigs that helped us win 63 games to have a chance in this series, but had Manu's shot fallen at the end of regulation, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Ultimately, Nazr Mohammed isn't on his way out because of this one series - he isn't returning because he didn't play well this season.

[Twilite Kid]

Originally Posted by Robinson50

I don't know what you're talking about, we didn't have to play any team for 82 games, it's irrelevant, a lot of teams during the regular season go small against us too, we never 'adjusted' by playing Nazr/Rasho ZERO minutes.

I'm just saying the playoffs are a different beast. We came back from down 3-1 by playing small ball. That's no small feat. As much as I HATE HATE HATE the Mavs, those guys can play some ball. They hit the shots they needed to. We didn't. If Bowen doesn't go 1-5 or Ginobili doesn't foul Dirk, maybe we'd all be celebrating, who knows.

Pop is our coach and I have his back on this. You can't play zone for 48 min in the NBA. and Nazr and Rasho can't guard anyone, let alone score. Our backs were against the wall and we almost did it.

I still hate the Mavs though.

[ronald_perez]

Credible source...didnt one poster state that Game 7 was not going to be on TNT. We should follow the journalism rules: two credible people.

[GameFan2k5]

Originally Posted by DizzG

That makes no sense. Because Nazr was one thing last year doesnt mean he came into this year being the same player. its not Pop's fault Nazr didnt have a good season and RichB's post laid that out very well

He set the foundation by taking away his minutes when Nazr's wife was ill.

And unless the Spurs can find a good trade for Barry or someone else... Yeah, I'm pretty much saying they're is giong to be another dissapointing Center for the 2006-2007 Spurs.

[DizzG]

He set the foundation by taking away his minutes when Nazr's wife was ill.

oh brother. Yeah..Pop just decided to take away his mins because Nazr's wife was ill.

Nazr didnt have a good camp and his lost his job there to start with...it was because his play and not some notion that Pop wanted to suddenly hold him back and keep him from playing. I cant believe some buy into this stuff. Nazr got opportunities this year regardless. He showed problems in several areas

The Spurs are not going to stand pat this summer. There is good reason to have some confidence in the Spurs front office

[Twilite Kid]

Originally Posted by GameFan2k5

He set the foundation by taking away his minutes when Nazr's wife was ill.

And unless the Spurs can find a good trade for Barry or someone else... Yeah, I'm pretty much saying they're is giong to be another dissapointing Center for the 2006-2007 Spurs.

No worries. I just got a memo from the Man Upstairs saying we're going to win it all next year... and that we should just book it.

[Robinson50]

Originally Posted by Twilite Kid

Pop is our coach and I have his back on this. You can't play zone for 48 min in the NBA. and Nazr and Rasho can't guard anyone, let alone score.

We don't have to. The Mavs were not going to play no center for 48 minutes. And Nazr and Rasho are there to get rebounds and block shots not scoring. Also, the Mavs are getting rains of layups anyway, doesn't matter if it's Nazr/Rasho giving up layups or other Spurs giving up layups.

Originally Posted by DizzG

The Spurs are not going to stand pat this summer. There is good reason to have some confidence in the Spurs front office

Yeap. They'd get more small forwards to matchup better against the Mavs next season.

[Twilite Kid]

Originally Posted by Robinson50

Yeap. They'd get more small forwards to matchup better against the Mavs next season.

Oh ye of little faith...

[cjlawler]

Nazr hurt the Mavs bad in one of the games this regular season...was never sure why the Spurs didn't play him this series.

[Hedo_Tfan1]

What a weenie. I mean im sure he feels like crap, but jeez! Its all about consistancy, and he didnt have it. I miss Malik See ya Nazr and take your butterfingers with you

[intlspurshk]

Originally Posted by spurssheriff

Nazr had a chance to extend his contract with the Spurs. The moment he said he's take his chances in the free agent market and declined the offe, he got on Pop's sh*t list.

The Spurs decided that they were going to make sure not to give him any opportunities to showcase for a better contract somewhere.

Can you blame the guy for being pissed?

Why did the SPURS do that if it's true? Player look for $ and it's ok. You just get the best out of him in his last year stay. I couldn't believe a classy organisation will do that.

[DizzG]

Originally Posted by intlspurshk

Why did the SPURS do that if it's true? Player look for $ and it's ok. You just get the best out of him in his last year stay. I couldn't believe a classy organisation will do that.

Read RichB's post. Im sorry..the notion that SA just wanted to hold Nazr back is silly IMO. His game and issues did that all on its own. turnovers, fouls, lack of playing in the defense, etc all had to do with his up and down playing time over other notions of SA just trying to keep him from getting a contract.

Nazr had chances to show himself and play well. He played ok at times and others not

[TheLadiesMike]

Originally Posted by Hantler

it was funny. Early in the series when he was in the game a friend and I were watching. I said, "Oh great. I'll bet you he fumbles the first pass he sees out of bounds." My friend thought I was joking....until it happened. Like clockwork he got the pass and promptly fumbled it out of bounds.

Sums it all up.

[Lord Deimos]

Originally Posted by cjlawler

Nazr hurt the Mavs bad in one of the games this regular season...was never sure why the Spurs didn't play him this series.

Many of us aren't sure either. It couldn't have hurt to at least try him out there.

But that's water under the bridge now.

[Krycek1]

I agree, Nazr just wasn't the player I expected this season. Unfortunately, I don't see the Spurs in a position to really get a better replacement though. Seems like they would have to put a trade together.

[Twilite Kid]

Watching and listening to how Finley arrived here and his attitude towards being a newbie, learning the system and just wanting to try his hardest to help his team and then hearing (supposedly) what Nazr had to say tonight is depressing.

Win for Fin in '07.

I hope Nazr goes to the hawks.

[Duncan21]

Nazr for Ratliff ?