BLAIMING THE REFS!

[deibero]

I know how every spurs fan is feeling and reacting toward the refs and blaming them for the lossess, myself included...i have read the articles, threads etc...
i just want to know if outside of the obviously biased spursreport community, you can get me some articles that prove this point from media around the nation like espn, sportingnews, sports ilustrated or something like that...
i just want to try to see if its only us or if this issue has got nationwide publicity because is gettin out of control...
its absolutely obvious that the nba doesnt want a repetition of the worst rated finals ever, spurs-pistons...

[JoeSchmo]

Google is a great tool.

[braeden0613]

i doubt you will find anyone outside that dares to challenge the mighty NBA referee that never affects the outcome of games

[Robinson50]

You won't get what you want. The refs have been terrible in games throughout the years and the mass media never focus on that. The reason is simple. Sports media want people to focus on the highlights, the dunks, the 3-pointers, etc, not the refs, refs won't sell. Also, if you remember after the brawl ESPN crew took the wrong side and have to apologize after the league threaten them, you know the media is afraid of the league.

[finashkey]

I think it's not a nationwide story because "Team loses, complains about officiating." What else is new? This is not specific to the Spurs. Any team that loses in the playoffs, starts looking at some of the calls that could have gone their way. They (fans) start looking at the final FT numbers that aren't in their favor and assume the disparity is unjust, instead of looking at each possession where a foul was called to see why the end result looks how it does. Every team and its fans think the league is out to get them, and the BS calls going against them are getting more and more ridiculous and out of control as the series goes on. The truth is you can always find poor officiating in favor of either side if that is what you are looking for.

[GameFan2k5]

Originally Posted by finashkey

I think it's not a nationwide story because "Team loses, complains about officiating." What else is new? This is not specific to the Spurs. Any team that loses in the playoffs, starts looking at some of the calls that could have gone their way. They (fans) start looking at the final FT numbers that aren't in their favor and assume the disparity is unjust, instead of looking at each possession where a foul was called to see why the end result looks how it does. Every team and its fans think the league is out to get them, and the BS calls going against them are getting more and more ridiculous and out of control as the series goes on. The truth is you can always find poor officiating in favor of either side if that is what you are looking for.

We better not here a word from you if the Mavs lose and the Spurs get 50+ freethrow attempts, but you probably won't have to worry about that second part happening.

[Not-so-Smart]

Originally Posted by Robinson50

You won't get what you want. The refs have been terrible in games throughout the years and the mass media never focus on that. The reason is simple. Sports media want people to focus on the highlights, the dunks, the 3-pointers, etc, not the refs, refs won't sell. Also, if you remember after the brawl ESPN crew took the wrong side and have to apologize after the league threaten them, you know the media is afraid of the league.

Got to disagree.
I've been a sports writer for several years. I learned on my own real quick that you have to stay away from the referees. For several good reasons.
I remember covering high school games, and at every single game, the losing parents would run up to me and tell me that I should write the REAL story. How the game was decided by the refs, and not the kids who played their heart out.
The media is unbiased, believe it or not. They are not rooting for the Lakers or the Mavs or the Spurs in their actual coverage. You can't write that way.
If you have a Mavs fan and a Spurs fan covering last night's game for AP or ESPN, and they don't keep their biases in check, you'd have two completely different stories. Just go look at the Spurs message boards and the Mavs message boards. And you're insane if you think that every single game is seen the same way by fans for each team in any game.
The media covers what's pertinent. Sometimes it's the refs (Mark Stein mentioned Tim's sixth foul), most of the time it's not.
Fans see what they want to see. Too much emphasis is placed on officiating, because it's an easy out.
No one wants to talk about Manu loosing the ball. Or Devin Harris looking more like Tony Parker. Or about the bench disappearing. Or about Finley and Van Exel, who were supposed to come back to haunt their former team, but have only disappeared. Or about the Spurs shooting 25 percent in the first quarter. Or about the Spurs playing only playing one good quarter in this whole series.
Those are stories.
If the media were fans, they'd be attacking the refs all day today.
But if the Spurs were not as slow-footed as they were, then maybe they don't fould as much (everyone mentions the FT advantage the Mavs had, but weren't some actually legit?).
Everyone acts like the media has an agenda. I've never heard of the big media convention where they decide what to ignore and what teams to prop up. The media, believe or not, is held to a very high standard.
They cover what is pertinent to the story. I have yet to read about dunk and 3-pointers in any of the coverage in today's papers and websites. Refs don't sell? That is controversy, and controvesy sells. Media loves controversey. But being a Spurs fan, it becomes more of a controversy than it really is.

[Not-so-Smart]

oops.

[DizzG]

The media is unbiased,

You really expect people to believe there is no bias in the media...Sports and beyond? There may be good writers who try to have no bias but there is bias in the media at times..and most people know it..rather its sports..real news..politics, etc

But if the Spurs were not as slow-footed as they were, then maybe they don't fould as much

last night had nothing to do with SA being too slow..hell they did a good job at stopping the penetration in the second half. Dallas didnt get over 20 FT's in the 4th quarter because SA was too slow. Duncan didnt foul out because he was slow footed

[Not-so-Smart]

Originally Posted by DizzG

You really expect people to believe there is no bias in the media...Sports and beyond? There may be good writers who try to have no bias but there is bias in the media at times..and most people know it..rather its sports..real news..politics, etc

Bias in the media? Sure. Is it so widespread that it only affects the Spurs, and is it so blatant that the media ignores the refs only when it pertains to the Spurs? C'mon. To think that there is some bias in the media to ignore refs because it is not sexy enough.... c'mon.

last night had nothing to do with SA being too slow..hell they did a good job at stopping the penetration in the second half. Dallas didnt get over 20 FT's in the 4th quarter because SA was too slow. Duncan didnt foul out because he was slow footed

But they didn't in the first half. The Mavs established themselves as the aggresor. I've said what I feel about Duncan's foul. It was bogus. The refs should let that slide. But the Spurs have benifited a ton from bogus calls as well.

[DizzG]

the Spurs were more agressive in the second half and particularly in the 4th quarter but it didnt change the calls

[SRJ]

I have a thread I will bump to help answer the question. It doesn't prove anything at all, merely shows what fans elsewhere are thinking. You may not find it useful or even interesting, but I kinda thought it was noteworthy.

[Vangelis]

The media is biased in favor of who is more spectacular and "sells" more (e.g Jordan, Lebron, Kobe etc.) and against teams like the Spurs and Detroit who play team basketball. That is a FACT! The media never criticise the refs (when has anyone ever seen an NBA ref getting blasted?) because the refs are part of the same system that feeds them.
San Antonio did not lose Game 3 because of what they did in Quarter 1 (25% FG% etc). They were robbed by Spooner and his sh*t calls in Q4 when they were in the middle of a historic comeback. Whether the Spurs have "benefited from bogus calls" in the past is IRRELEVANT to what is happening now and should not have any influence on the officiating. This argument is total BU**S*IT.

[Not-so-Smart]

You know, I'm not saying the officiating wasn't horrible.
But are you going to come in here and complain when Duncan gets breathed on in fht first quarter of Game 1 and goes to the line? Are you going to complain when Manu draws a pretty bad foul in the fourth quarter of last night's game?
The calls have gone both ways. But the only ones you all notice sometimes are the ones against the Spurs. The ones the Spurs get are ignored. The ones you do notice are ONLY the ones againt the Spurs, and they are so bad that the league must have an agenda (avoiding another Spurs-Pistons finals), the media must have an agenda in ignoring them (they'd rather focus on dunks and three-pointers), and that Pop must put his foot down and call out the refs.
Pop's doing what he should do. He's realizing that the Spurs didn't defend well (he did say that this afternoon already) and that they need to execture better and find a way to slow Devin Harris, who creates a ton of calls by tearing into the Spurs interior defense.

Originally Posted by Vangelis

The media is biased in favor of who is more spectacular and "sells" more (e.g Jordan, Lebron, Kobe etc.)

Those three players you mentioned are who the fans want to see. The media is the fans' ears and voice to the NBA. Fans want to know what Kobe, LeBron and Jordan are doing. It's a simple fact.

and against teams like the Spurs and Detroit who play team basketball. That is a FACT!

The Spurs and Pistons have got plenty of attention, you just don't see because it's what you want to see every second.

The media never criticise the refs (when has anyone ever seen an NBA ref getting blasted?) because the refs are part of the same system that feeds them.

What the hell? I know this is wrong, but since I have no clue what it is you are trying to say, I can't refute it. Which "system" feeds the media and the refs?

San Antonio did not lose Game 3 because of what they did in Quarter 1 (25% FG% etc). They were robbed by Spooner and his sh*t calls in Q4 when they were in the middle of a historic comeback.

That's one reason. The only one you seem to care about.

[Vangelis]

"You know, I'm not saying the officiating wasn't horrible."
THEN WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SAYING? What is the point of your argument. You admit that there was horrible officiating. That's why the Spurs lost.

"Quote : The media never criticise the refs (when has anyone ever seen an NBA ref getting blasted?) because the refs are part of the same system that feeds them.


What the hell? I know this is wrong, but since I have no clue what it is you are trying to say, I can't refute it. Which "system" feeds the media and the refs?"

The massive money making machine that is the NBA and the people who are controlling it and make millions every year on the back of people like yourself who do not have the balls to go against it.

[Not-so-Smart]

Originally Posted by Vangelis

You admit that there was horrible officiating. That's why the Spurs lost. [/b]

I admit the officiating wasn't great, but that's only one of several reasons the Spurs lost. If you're a Mavs fan, your be at their message boards talking about the travesty of Game 1, and how three Mavs centers each had two fouls in the first quarter. About how the media ignores that because they don't want the Mavs to go to the finals because of Mark Cuban, and about how the media and the NBA just want to promote a player like Tim Duncan who does and says all the right things.
It's all perception. To base such strong animosity toward only one side of that perception is wrong and hypocritical.

[Robinson50]

Carnac The Magnificent, I think you're on the wrong track, as far as I know, yes the losing team's fans always complain about the refs, and yes fans are always biased on average, but this doesn't change the fact that the refs were not horrible game 3. And I really can't get why you keep talking about how 'calls have gone both ways'. It doesn't matter! Let's say refs in general give equal percentage of legit fouls on any team, but in a particular 7-games series they definitely can kill 1 team if they make enough mistakes during that series (because a 7-game series is a small sample).

I think you just focus too much on fans here being biased. It's not the point. The point is, we're screwed on game 3 no matter what other factors may also affected the game.

Originally Posted by Carnac The Magnificent

I admit the officiating wasn't great, but that's only one of several reasons the Spurs lost. If you're a Mavs fan, your be at their message boards talking about the travesty of Game 1, and how three Mavs centers each had two fouls in the first quarter. About how the media ignores that because they don't want the Mavs to go to the finals because of Mark Cuban, and about how the media and the NBA just want to promote a player like Tim Duncan who does and says all the right things.

Now you're even getting the facts wrong. The media was all over the 'bear-hug defense', and Cuban paid 200,000 with complain to the league and also get media attention.

[Vangelis]

"It's all perception. To base such strong animosity toward only one side of that perception is wrong and hypocritical."
It's not perception, it's called reality. The Spurs were ROBBED. What's wrong and hypocritical is denying it and blaming poor shooting in the first half for events that took place in Q4. A game ends after 48 minutes. Wake up.

[Not-so-Smart]

Originally Posted by Vangelis

"It's all perception. To base such strong animosity toward only one side of that perception is wrong and hypocritical."
It's not perception, it's called reality. The Spurs were ROBBED. What's wrong and hypocritical is denying it and blaming poor shooting in the first half for events that took place in Q4. A game ends after 48 minutes. Wake up.

Ask any Mavs fan if the Spurs were robbed. See what their perception is.

[Vangelis]

Ask any Mavs fan if the Spurs were robbed. See what their perception is.
I don't care about the perceptions of Mavs fans. What I do care about is the reality that the refs stole the W from us and i DO NOT want this to happen again in this series. My concern is that your perception is the same as the Mavs fans...

[Fundamental9903]

You know, I have to agree with Carnac on this one. Yes last night's 4th quarter whistle contest was horrible to watch and I agree that was one of the reasons the Spurs lost. That 1st quarter was complete garbage and real Spurs fans know that the Spurs have never been a come-from-behind team. Spurs were playing behind all night and that can kill you, especially in the 4th quarter.

What I'm looking forward to is Game 4. The big question is HOW ARE THE SPURS GOING TO REACT??? If the Spurs have any chance of winning the 'chip this year, you will see it in Game 4 on Monday. I want to see Horry diving in the stands to save balls, Manu totally ignoring the fact that there are 3 7-footers in the paint and JUST DRIVE THE BALL with reckless abandon. Trust me, if the refs see that YOU are the agressor in the game, YOU will get the calls. If the Spurs don't start getting aggressive, you can get the boat warmed up. AND CAN SOMEONE PLEASE PUT A BODY ON SOMEONE AND BOX THE FU@K OUT....

[Not-so-Smart]

Originally Posted by Vangelis

Ask any Mavs fan if the Spurs were robbed. See what their perception is.
I don't care about the perceptions of Mavs fans. What I do care about is the reality that the refs stole the W from us and i DO NOT want this to happen again in this series. My concern is that your perception is the same as the Mavs fans...

Thanks for proving my point.
My perception is not that of a Mavs fan.

[3 Legged Dog]

Originally Posted by Carnac The Magnificent

Got to disagree.
I've been a sports writer for several years. I learned on my own real quick that you have to stay away from the referees. For several good reasons.
I remember covering high school games, and at every single game, the losing parents would run up to me and tell me that I should write the REAL story. How the game was decided by the refs, and not the kids who played their heart out.
The media is unbiased, believe it or not. They are not rooting for the Lakers or the Mavs or the Spurs in their actual coverage. You can't write that way.
If you have a Mavs fan and a Spurs fan covering last night's game for AP or ESPN, and they don't keep their biases in check, you'd have two completely different stories. Just go look at the Spurs message boards and the Mavs message boards. And you're insane if you think that every single game is seen the same way by fans for each team in any game.
The media covers what's pertinent. Sometimes it's the refs (Mark Stein mentioned Tim's sixth foul), most of the time it's not.
Fans see what they want to see. Too much emphasis is placed on officiating, because it's an easy out.
No one wants to talk about Manu loosing the ball. Or Devin Harris looking more like Tony Parker. Or about the bench disappearing. Or about Finley and Van Exel, who were supposed to come back to haunt their former team, but have only disappeared. Or about the Spurs shooting 25 percent in the first quarter. Or about the Spurs playing only playing one good quarter in this whole series.
Those are stories.
If the media were fans, they'd be attacking the refs all day today.
But if the Spurs were not as slow-footed as they were, then maybe they don't fould as much (everyone mentions the FT advantage the Mavs had, but weren't some actually legit?).
Everyone acts like the media has an agenda. I've never heard of the big media convention where they decide what to ignore and what teams to prop up. The media, believe or not, is held to a very high standard.
They cover what is pertinent to the story. I have yet to read about dunk and 3-pointers in any of the coverage in today's papers and websites. Refs don't sell? That is controversy, and controvesy sells. Media loves controversey. But being a Spurs fan, it becomes more of a controversy than it really is.

You can pretend all you want. Game 3 was a farce, and you fu@#ing know it.