"Tim Duncan Somewhat Overated"

[DizzG]

Its amazing how down seem on Duncan this year...just amazing. I mean saying freakin ewing is equal or better than Duncan is absurd. Malone isnt better...David isnt better, Kobe isnt better overall, Barkely isnt better. I think some people are forgetting how freakin good Duncan really is

[spursfan9]

if timmyD doesn't recover fully from this foot problem and/or whatever the heck else is bothering him theres gonna be a lot more of these articles to come... i'm sure..


ridiculous

[BlitzKriegBop]

Originally Posted by Supernatural Anesthetist

Tim Freakin' Duncan thats who.

Remember the shot before .4? No of course not...

As somebody mentioned earlier, remember in game 5 when tim missed 1 of 7 fts, the game winning putback, and was responsible for several key turnovers?

Credit the Pistons D, but both you and I know that tip was point blank for timmy...and FTs aren't defended either. There is no excuse for him fading in that kind of situation.

Again, I NEVER said tim duncan wasn't clutch, but you have got to be kidding me if you think he is on the horry/kobe/manu level of clutchness.

[Preterist]

I can't believe the writer reserved the word "overrated" for Duncan and not Ewing.
I mean Come on, I leave up here in New york state and I have been hearing the Knicks fans saying Ewing having been overrated for years ,even before he retired.
Seriously, why pick Duncan outunless you just hate him. There are other players more deserving of that designation than Tim.

[NS2119]

Are you an idiot. Why are you even talking, tim duncan has made all NBA and All NBA Defensive teams for every year he has played. To say that Tim Duncan is overated is one of the most helarious things i have ever heard. Sure is he having a career year no, but there are other factors. He has a better team, better supporting cast, and his ankle. This guy has recieved two MVP awards, BACK TO BACK. Anyone who says this guy is overated is insane. Yes im a huge spurs fan but that doesn't take away that he is one of the greatest ever to play. To put Tim Duncan at a level such as Ewing, its unheard of. But you have your own opinion, although you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

[Teardropsfallin]

lol Duncan? overrated? he one of the most accomplished players in the NBA today. And in history. He is one of only 8 players to be named MVP twice in a row. I mean come on, Tim's a freaken NBA God. You have to be stupid to not realize how great he is. He's hurt right now, but that doesn't not take away from the past.

[BlitzKriegBop]

Originally Posted by Hantler

you lost credibility with me when you coupled Manu (who admittedly is great) in with Horry and Kobe. Manu's not close to those two (more so Rob) in "Clutchness".

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. This is only manu's 4th season, so there is still a lot more we have yet to see. As of now though, i'm using the same criteria i've used to evaluate other "clutch" players. Do you want this guy taking the final shot with only seconds left in a game? If it's manu, then yes.

Originally Posted by JamesR

So its inexcusable for him to NOT be clutch in Game 5, but its like "eh, whatever" when he owns the second half of Game 7?

It's not inexcusable, but I think it does somewhat validate that Tim isn't consistantly clutch as other players.

[DaSlicer]

Originally Posted by DizzG

Its amazing how down seem on Duncan this year...just amazing. I mean saying freakin ewing is equal or better than Duncan is absurd. Malone isnt better...David isnt better, Kobe isnt better overall, Barkely isnt better. I think some people are forgetting how freakin good Duncan really is

I think it just comes down to hate which is some people just hate Duncan because he isn't the typical superstar. He is what you called a self maid superstar which is a guy who didn't have special natural abilities when he first stepped on the court but developed special skills through hard work. Duncan came into wake forest I think ranked as the 185th best player in the nation while other glamour superstars were ranked very high comming out of hschool even MJ I think was a top 10 hschool player and was known nationally. I remember down here in NC he was hated all over tobacco road simply because he was some guy who came out of nowhere and was just killing traditional schools such as UNC and Duke which according to the establishment shouldn't have happened espescially for a no name guy to take out historically winning programs who have always had the top players.
I think this is very similar to his NBA career even though he was billed the top player in the nation when he was the number 1 pick nobody ever expected him to be this great like they did when Shaq was the number 1 pick. He also took a team that wasn't well known of nationally and destroyed legendary NBA teams in the process of winning championships ala Knicks, Lakers, again that wasn't suppose to happen for a guy despite being great with no hype to beat these type of teams because stuff like that had never happen before. How many times had a small market team won multiple championships in NBA history? I can't recall it ever happening before.

The other problem is modern society views a superstar as somebody being widely famous along with being marketable. If they aren't famous then they can't be considered one of the greatest. Thats why you will always see guys with flash get billed as being better Duncan because normal fans assosciate flash and being famous with greatness. In a normal fans head a guy like Duncan who has no flash, no popularity, shouldn't be great it just doesn't make any sense that this guy is the best player in the league but has no commercials.

I think the best way to put it is Duncan really defies what a conventional superstar is suppose to be which people can't grip. Its like that extremely ugly guy who you see at parties always ending up with the hottest girl in the room. The reaction is the ugly guy should not be ending up with the girl its not suppose to be that way. That is pretty much Duncan in a nutshell.

[Rzarector7]

Originally Posted by atownspursfan

Exactly...
Take your SPURS cap off, and put yourself in his shoes...he writes for the NBA, not the Spurs...with that said, he does have some merit behind his article:
he says Duncan is overrated...in our world of "what have you done for me lately", Duncan has looked awful. Moreover, it's great that he is Mr. Consistent, but why has he not improved? Imagine if he had Kobe's drive (just his drive!).
he says he's a center who bills himself as a PF...he does play center, especially when Horry is in. So, it IS fair to compare him to any C/PF.
Duncan can't hold a candle to Hakeem, and he is on P. Ewing's level...Individually speaking, all accolades and honors aside, he isn't on Hakeem's level, nor is he on a young D. Robinson's level. Can you imagine D. Rob in his prime, with his 25+ points, 12 reb, 2 steals, 3+ blocks, etc. playing with Pop as his coach and running with the likes of TP and manu? That would be sick...
he says Duncan is shaky in the clutch...I don't remember the last time he "took over" a game. Jordan was clutch, reggie miller was clutch, hakeem was clutch, wade is clutch, kobe is clutch, manu is clutch. I don't think Duncan fits that bill. He isn't shaky, but he also isn't clutch. Duncan has had his clutch days (not recently), but I wouldn't consider him up there with the top clutch players.

BTW - Duncan is more than deserving of top 60, probably top 25, just not "best of all time" like some of you see it...

Well seriously what Big man hits clutch shots like guards over and over? Shaq? Yao? Seriously Tim has hit more game winners and the Spurs have gone to him for the win moreso than other big man, he can't create his own shot out on the perimeter like a guard but he has definitely been clutch in big games, hit the GW shot in quite a few of them!!!! Tim has taken over series before, he has taken over games in the offs and had brilliant nights in big PLAYOFF games, specifically game 6 of the 03 finals and game 7 last year, plus the Sonics game last year he won on the last shot. Duncan is hurting right now, he doesn't need to score alot like Kobe nor have that selfish drive he had, if he had Kobes drive he would DRIVE his other players right outta town or outta the game to try and take over, he doesn't need to be that man. He is smarter and a better bball player all around than Kobe, I will take him over Kobe anyday of the week, now what drive do you speak of? BTW D Rob in his prime with those guys might have done it, Parker is easily better than AJ ever was, but Elliot in his 90's years or mid 90's was better or slightly better than Manu IMO, all around anyways. Manu is a better clutch player and has more drive than Elliot had and takes over moreso than Elliot did, but talent wise Elliot was more in his prime and better or on Par than Manu IMO. David could have used them, however I don't think David ever played with as much hard or drive as Duncan has during the title runs, he just didn't have that extra push to put a team on his back spite how great he was and how athletic he was. D Rob in his prime was a freak of nature, too bad he never had the mind or the post game of Duncan to take over in a playoff series and bring his team to a title like Tim has. I disagree with alot of what you said right there, Tim has been clutch and is on Nestles crunch time points pretty high every year, higher than most C's and PF's that is, so that would make him clutch.


BTW Tim not improved, oh maybe because he is hurt and has been the last year or so we have seen him with his ankles and Foot, that can make you go down in stats some you think? His scoring going down, okay you have an all star next to you in Tony getting 20 and Manu getting 16 a night, you would think his scoring would go down from say 02 or 03 with two guys getting more points beside you and taking the load off you think? He doesn't need to score as much anymore, plus with that injury it is very difficult to even play out there and we should thank GOD he is even playing right now and not sitting out like Kobe did for a while with this injury.

Originally Posted by atownspursfan

Just because a writer like Dennis Hans criticizes Tim doesn't make him a moron, idiot, crap, poop, clueless, or whatever you want to call him...i was just pointing out how he could think what he wrote in his article, which is the viewpoint of many sports writers. As most of you know (or don't know), the spurs don't have many fans outside of san antonio...now, to defend myself:

- I said accolades and honors aside, so forget about the MVP this, championships that arguement...Jordan was a much greater player than Russell (per making a list of the greatest players ever), as were a few others, but none came close to his championships...
- TheChillFactor, how old are you?..yes, I do think d. rob, in his prime, was better than duncan. did you ever see 5-0 between his rookie season up until 1996ish? He was a beast with freakish athletic ability, much like amare, but with better D...robinson never had the supporting cast, coach, nor system that duncan has had.
- I did watch the 4th quarter of game 7 in the finals last year...he didn't exactly put the team on his back. i think bowen and ginobili had as much, if not more, to do with the outcome than duncan did (which brought up the whole manu for mvp thing). duncan played well, really consistent, but he didn't "dominate" or "take over" the game. On the contrary, have you watched the latter quarters of game 5? he made 1 of 7 free throws in the 4th, missed a simple, game-winning tip at the end of regulation and both of his shots in overtime, and fumbled a pass from Horry when the Spurs had the opportunity to tie the game in the finl minutes...thank the lord for robert horry!
- as far as the pain/playing through injury arguement, which is why he hasn't been playing well recently, I can't really take a stance on that since I don't REALLY know the extent of his injury, how much it REALLY effects his game, how long he has been playing through pain, etc. I do acknowledge that he is playing through some pain, but "the best of all time" having only, what, 2 20+ pt games in the past 15 games or so? c'mon! Do you know his averages for Feb.? 15 pts, 11 boards...best of all time, eh? That is NOT Duncanesque. All players play through injuries, but something must REALLY be wrong. I think some other poster posted something a few days ago saying that Duncan has not looked "dominant" since the 02-03 season...I concur...has the plantar foot thing been bothering him that long?

Anyhow, I am a HUGE spurs fan, or basketball fan for that matter, and I do think Duncan is top 25 greatest...I never said I agree with Dennis Hans...I was just pointing out how he could think what he thinks. What keeps Duncan in the discussion, for me, isn't the stats. He understands the game VERY well, he knows where to be at the right times, and his teammates and coaches LOVE him...clutch or not, center or power forward, you can build a championship team around this guy...

Those shots Bowen and Gino made were due to the attention Tim got on the block, he got them wide open shots or did you miss that? Those were rater easy shots they got and made, and seriously anyone who knows the game and watches it knows the impact Tim had on that game 7 last year and so on with him just being out there, he does more than just score points or take over games by scoring in many different ways. Tim got a HUGE board and called the TO when Horry got his three to in game 5 right? Infact I remember a few boards he got, so why he missed some of the shots and FT's he did othter things as well to help them win right? He was not dominant after the 02-03 season? What about 04 without D Rob leading them to within .04 of another WCF's title? That was a pretty dominant year. Just because your stats drop does not mean you are not dominant, he is not the guy he was in 03 because he was HEALTHY them and had to do more then on O and so on, otherwise he is still very dominant and impacts the game. BTW you ask something is wrong? Come on now Plantar whatever he has, they say it's like someone sticking glass into your foot, I guess than can effect your game just a little bit huh ? Seriously I have asked people and some who have had it commentating during the games I watch say I have HAD that and IT IS VERY PAINFUL (Doug Collins), and then you have Walton saying you don't just get over that injury playing NBA basketball and how bad it is, I think they would know more than us on this subject.

BTW look at when Tims stats dropped or started to last year at the end of the year to 20.3 from 21 some odd and 12 or so boards al year almost, it happened after his ankle was BADLY hurt and he played sparingly coming back getting read for the offs, that dropped them some at the end of the year, so that 02-03 stuff is nonsense when most of the year last year until the end he was dominant as usual (In the offs he did well too with TWO HURT ANKLES). Players play through injurie as you say, but this one? Kobe sat out a WHILE last year with an injury similar I believe and others get minor injuries and sit out, yet Tim has missed one game this year from a flu and played through it, so you should just thank GOD for that.

[curiousspirit]

Peja supposedly sat out half a season with planters faciatis.

[callo1]

I guess the 70+ percent of the Gm's that said they would take Timmy 1st if they were to start a new team today are all wrong then...what do they know. /sarcasm

As for Tim not being clutch, thats just funny. I guess out scoring and out rebounding both Ben Wallace and Rasheed combined in game 1 of the Finals isn't clutch? nor is demanding the ball and taking over game 7 in last years Finals?

Almost forgot to mention the non clutch performance in '03 against the Lakers when Tim literally took Shaq out behind the wood shed when Shaq switched on him in the 4th period.

Yup, old Timmy sure does suck, I mean we should put him no higher than Ewing...ya know, the same Ewing that never was able to beat his biggest rival (Jordan), while Timmy led an '03 squad with a 20 year old rookie pt. guard, a rookie bench player named Ginoboli an aging Robinson, and a bunch of role players past Kobe and Shaq to win another title.

Come to think of it, that shot Timmy took in '04 against the Lakers which left .4 on the clock sucked too, as did that game winner against the Sonics in game 6 last year.

If you can name one big man (PF / C) that has been more clutch than Timmy since he has been in the league by all means do so. The league is a G / SF league now but TD still averages 20 and 10 on 2 bum feet that cause most players to miss months of action.

Boy I sure am glad we have an overrated player like Timmy on our team

[miguelito]

As usual, I agree with DaSlicer. And pjjrfan had a great post as well. Duncan brings a greatness that harkens to yesteryear, which is perhaps why it is seemingly only appreciated by Spurs fans, and so disdained by the remainder of the world.

What it so funny to me is how when Tim was healthy in the first month of this season, the whole world was saying that he is the best power forward to ever play. That makes him a top 10 all-time player, right? He was more agile than we had seen him in quite a while, and he looked great on the court. But now that he's been hobbled by the Plantar Fascitis, everyone is down on him. It's absurd.

For example, the mere thought that someone would put Kobe Bryant on the same list with names such as Magic, Wilt, Russell, Bird, etc. .... That is insanity.

Bryant has three rings because of Shaq. Tim Duncan has three rings becasue of Tim Duncan. Tim took three different teams to titles, all with very different personel and personalities. That is greatness. If he's healthy this year, it may happen again.

Don't forget that Derek Fisher and Rick Fox also have three rings because of Shaq. Bryant was only 20 or so when the Lakers won the first ring, and Bryant was not a major factor on that team. Plus, anything Bryant did was made infinitely easier because of Shaq's presence, not vice-versa. We all see now that Bryant can't do anything but score, and he has to jack up 9000 shots a game to do that. People, Bryant hasn;t lead "his own team" i.e. a Shaq-less team) to the PLAYOFFS, much less to a title. Bryant is not greatness. How many Finals MVPs does Bryant have? Yeah, I thought so.

Tim Duncan embodies everything greatness is, and better yet, he has proven it multiple times on the greatest stage of all -- the NBA Finals.

[dreadlocd]

Originally Posted by ro_50

How does this guy have a job. Goes to show you that you dont need to know anything about the game.

Does he even watch basketball?

maybe....but if he does it sure aint the Spurs

[Rzarector7]

I will quote Lebron from the Olympics when he said those who do not appreciate what Tim Duncan does on the court, those are fantasy fans...... I think the players and so on know better when they praise Tim Duncan to say the least, Iverson and so on praised Tim and didn't Marbury say he is the best he ever played with on that team? This idiot writer never played the game like Magic or Charles etc., they praise Tim and who is this clown????

[Grego]

Originally Posted by Rzarector7

I will quote Lebron from the Olympics when he said those who do not appreciate what Tim Duncan does on the court, those are fantasy fans...... I think the players and so on know better when they praise Tim Duncan to say the least, Iverson and so on praised Tim and didn't Marbury say he is the best he ever played with on that team? This idiot writer never played the game like Magic or Charles etc., they praise Tim and who is this clown????

Players know how much Duncan makes their lives on the court. They do a lot of those things that don't necessairly show up in the stat sheet, which the casual viewer won't see. That's one reason Duncan goes underrated.