Frustrated with Tim

[TheChillFactor]

1. yes i know it's january.

2. yes, i know the guy has won us 3 championships.

3. yes, i know he's banged up.

4. no, i'm not looking for a kobe-like 35 shots per game.

but i'm still frustrated that this guy won't SHOOT THE BALL. is it asking too much for the guy to put up 15 or 20 shots every night???

i don't want this guy with the same number of attempts as brent barry and finley! i understand he plays unselfish ball. i'm just asking for the guy to average maybe 24 ppg! 14 and 13 is fine when we're the best team in the league. when we aren't, i expect a little more out of "the best player in the NBA."

stop acting like the guy is 50 years old, hell he's only 29 for god's sake.

[SpurInDallas]

Especially with Manu out! I have no problem with Timmy shooting the ball 25 times a night. Too many times, especially when NVE is in the game, Tim doesnt even touch the ball.

[Flipmode Master]

Originally Posted by TheChillFactor

1. yes i know it's january.

2. yes, i know the guy has won us 3 championships.

3. yes, i know he's banged up.

4. no, i'm not looking for a kobe-like 35 shots per game.

but i'm still frustrated that this guy won't SHOOT THE BALL. is it asking too much for the guy to put up 15 or 20 shots every night???

i don't want this guy with the same number of attempts as brent barry and finley! i understand he plays unselfish ball. i'm just asking for the guy to average maybe 24 ppg! 14 and 13 is fine when we're the best team in the league. when we aren't, i expect a little more out of "the best player in the NBA."

stop acting like the guy is 50 years old, hell he's only 29 for god's sake.

I personally feel like he shoud go to the bank shot a few more times per game. Also I want him to move and stop waiting so long once he catches the basketball.

[Buzzsaw]

Is Tim hurt?
Is he not as good anymore?
or both?

[Malice]

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw

Is Tim hurt?
Is he not as good anymore?
or both?

O boy, your going to open up a can of worms with that question...

I prefer to think he's hurting....I pray his game hasnt left him already...

[bo spur]

Guys, when a team is dead set on getting the ball out of Duncan's hands by sending double and triple teams all night long, Tim is not going to force it when he's got the team mates he does stading around wide open. I have no problem with him passing to open man instead of forcing the shot while three guys hack at him. When Ducan did try to force the shot against double teams with Denver he was getting fouled but they weren't calling it, so he stopped forcing them. Dever was going to make us beat them from the outside, they were all in the paint on defense forcing the Spurs to shoot from the outside, its not Tim's fault that will the supporting cast he has, they can't hit a damn shot.

I felt like I was watching the Spurs of 4 years ago, when we didn't have one damn player that could knock down a perimeter shot. I mean 4-23 from behind the arc for Barry, Parker, Bowen, Finley and Van Exel just isn't going to get it done. The fact that the game wasn't a blow out is amazing.

I'm more pissed at Barry, Finley, Van Exel, Parker, and Bowen for not making wide open shots, then I am for Duncna not forcing more shots. If they would have been calling fouls then it would have been smart for him to force things, but since they weren't he would have just kept turning the ball over. I mean Melo's punk azz gets more respect from the refs, he shot as many free throws as Duncan and Parker combined.

[SAScrub]

Originally Posted by bo spur

I'm more pissed at Barry, Finley, Van Exel, Parker, and Bowen for not making wide open shots, then I am for Duncna not forcing more shots.

Exactly...these guys HAVE TO hit open shots. They just have to hit shots....

[cope]

Originally Posted by bo spur

Guys, when a team is dead set on getting the ball out of Duncan's hands by sending double and triple teams all night long, Tim is not going to force it when he's got the team mates he does stading around wide open. I have no problem with him passing to open man instead of forcing the shot while three guys hack at him. When Ducan did try to force the shot against double teams with Denver he was getting fouled but they weren't calling it, so he stopped forcing them. Dever was going to make us beat them from the outside, they were all in the paint on defense forcing the Spurs to shoot from the outside, its not Tim's fault that will the supporting cast he has, they can't hit a damn shot.

Exactly. Denver had a game plan and worked it to perfection...they were not going to let Tim beat them and they also closed down the lane on TP.
With Manu and Horry out, we had no outside game and Geoge Karl knew that.

[spurs7794]

U say he was aggressvely double teamed in this game, but what about firday? I kno we won, but Tim took one shot in the fourth and he wasnt being aggressively doubled all night, he just didnt look like he cared.

[DizzG]

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw

Is Tim hurt?
Is he not as good anymore?
or both?

he's playing with a sore foot and didnt have a good game

I seriously doubt its because he isnt as good anymore. When healthy I think he is still the best overall player in the league with Kobe

[Naruto]

i still timmy is good, but he is not playing like bfo, i understand that he is playing injured and stuff, but tim just aint playing like our old timmay.

[bo spur]

U say he was aggressvely double teamed in this game, but what about firday? I kno we won, but Tim took one shot in the fourth and he wasnt being aggressively doubled all night, he just didnt look like he cared.

Parker was single handly kicking the Heats azz that game while shooting over 70% from the field. I honestly think Duncan is in Drob mode right now. I mean once Robinson saw how good Duncan was he started to defer to him much more then anyone would have anticipated. Duncan saw how good Manu could be last year, he also is seeing how good Parker could be this year. When one of them gets it going I see him looking for them much more even when they call a play for him. Add to that the fact Parker the PG is shooting a better pecentage then anyone in the league not named Shaq, as well as players like Finley, Horry, Barry, NVE, Nazr, Oberto coming off the bench and I'm not surprized to see him shooting less and less. Even though in reality he isn't and never has put up more then 18 shots a game in his career.

I don't think that will be the case in the playoffs, expecially if the perimeter guys are missing shots. But TD knows its a long season, and you can tell that alot of the vets on our team right now are just coasting though on cruise control.

I know it seems like TD is doing less on the offensive side of the ball right now, but he was doing the exact same thing last year, and I think it has more to do with the fact that he is a total team player who has some really good team mates right now then anything else. Tim isn't going to try and do more then he has to, its just not his style of game, and as you can see, the better his team mates have gotten the more he has defered to them. And since he isn't even 100%, he is probably leaning on them a little more this year.

01/02 Duncan = 18.3 shots per game
01/02 Parker = 8.3 shots per game

02/03 Duncan = 17.2 shots per game
02/03 Parker = 12.7 shots per game
02/03 Manu = 5.8 shots per game

03/04 Duncan = 17.1 shots per game
03/04 Parker = 12.6 shots per game
03/04 Manu = 10.2 shots per game

04/05 Duncan = 15.8 shots per game
04/05 Parker = 14 shots per game
04/05 Manu = 10.5 shots per game

05/06 Duncan = 15.7 shots per game
05/06 Parker = 14.8 shots per game
05/06 Manu = 10.3 shots per game

[spurs7794]

Earlier in the season, he was defferring to Manu and Tony plenty and he still got up a reasonable amount of shots and was playing dominant. In the last 10 or so games tho, it feels like he doesnt ever wanna shoot which i think is a huuuuuuuge mistake. No matter how good Tony and Manu are, Tim is better than them and the rest of the players on our team combined (i may be exagerrating but u get my point) and if he is more aggressive, it makes the rest of the team play better too. As for Tony's great night on Friday, Tim was having a decent scoring night thorugh one half too and then just stopped playing offense (he did have 6 boards in the fourth). In that fourth quarter, i remember Barry taking two shots, Finley taking 3, Rasho taking 3 and Tim taking.....1. And that was a half hearted fling at the basket that almost led to Miami tieing the game.

I love Tim, hes by far my favorite player, but I would feel better if Tim started forcing the issue somewhat in order to get going. I kno hes probably just going through the motions but it feels like they arent playing Spurs basketball right now and i think the biggest reason is that Tim is settling for like 12 shots a game recently.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Basically, Tim (and Tony) are taking what the defensive gives them. Opposing teams have figured out that if they don't first stop Tony from penetrating, they will lose. So they pack it in and deny the drive to the hoop. Then, when Tim gets the ball, they double- or triple-team him, especially in the 4th quarter. Tim has to kick it. If the others are not making their shots (as was manifestly obvious last night), the Spurs lose. Simple as that.

Opposing teams' strategy:

1) On defense, make Tony a jump shooter/passer, and force someone other than Tim to beat you by double-teaming him.
2) Push the ball every time on transition. You've got to get easy buckets.
3) Be more aggressive than the Spurs, because they will not go 48 minutes against you.

Every team watches video of who beat the Spurs and how they did it. Expect more of the same.

[Falcone]

Originally Posted by bo spur

Guys, when a team is dead set on getting the ball out of Duncan's hands by sending double and triple teams all night long, Tim is not going to force it when he's got the team mates he does stading around wide open. I have no problem with him passing to open man instead of forcing the shot while three guys hack at him. When Ducan did try to force the shot against double teams with Denver he was getting fouled but they weren't calling it, so he stopped forcing them. Dever was going to make us beat them from the outside, they were all in the paint on defense forcing the Spurs to shoot from the outside, its not Tim's fault that will the supporting cast he has, they can't hit a damn shot.

I felt like I was watching the Spurs of 4 years ago, when we didn't have one damn player that could knock down a perimeter shot. I mean 4-23 from behind the arc for Barry, Parker, Bowen, Finley and Van Exel just isn't going to get it done. The fact that the game wasn't a blow out is amazing.

I'm more pissed at Barry, Finley, Van Exel, Parker, and Bowen for not making wide open shots, then I am for Duncna not forcing more shots. If they would have been calling fouls then it would have been smart for him to force things, but since they weren't he would have just kept turning the ball over. I mean Melo's punk azz gets more respect from the refs, he shot as many free throws as Duncan and Parker combined.

exactly, why did we bring these perimeter guys in if they cannot even throw it in the ocean?

[Godkid1]

bo spur hit it on the head - everything he said is true. i found it incredible how melo was getting tons of respect from the refs while timmy was getting his ass beaten without any ref giving a damn! i mean, seriously, he had 6 TO's - but several were fouls! and i'm more mad at the players that threw up all those 3's! please! 4-23? how many baskets did they give up if they had been 2's instead!?
the main thing that got me was the fact that timmy started hot and got cold, and they all got cold with FT's! and lets not forget 32 points fastbreat points very frustrated with this loss

[Malice]

Originally Posted by Godkid1

bo spur hit it on the head - everything he said is true. i found it incredible how melo was getting tons of respect from the refs while timmy was getting his ass beaten without any ref giving a damn! i mean, seriously, he had 6 TO's - but several were fouls! and i'm more mad at the players that threw up all those 3's! please! 4-23? how many baskets did they give up if they had been 2's instead!?
the main thing that got me was the fact that timmy started hot and got cold, and they all got cold with FT's! and lets not forget 32 points fastbreat points very frustrated with this loss

DITTO man, that game yesterday pretty much has summed up out play of late, maybe even all year. This is my list of things lacking from this season, that troubles me very much...

The lack of playing for a full 48 minutes, the obvious lack of energy from TD(injury is noted), lack of consistent D from game to game(transition, rotation) lack of rebounding(this means lack of effort), lack of consistent outside shoting, lack of fire and anger, lack of consistent production from the bench, and lastly lack of that killer instinct that shows in ALL our championship seasons...please correct this Spurs or its going to be a very disappointing season.

[Art Vandalay]

it's not about melo getting tons of respect from the ref, it's freakin boykins going off for 19 in the 4th. the guy can flat out shoot, that's why he is playing. would kill someone to either stay on him and let drive to the hoop and become a passer or are the spurs gonna just leave him wide open every time. id rather take chances of him trying to dish than poppin shots all damn day. but the defense is horrible, rotations suck. look complacent out there.

i understand leave him open a couple of times, yeah only a couple, but seeing him knock down like 6 shots in a row, might want to start taking away his jump shot.

tim is being double and tripled but come on, i saw plenty of times he just sits and waits too damn long, needs to go quick. or just become patient and play the 2 man game back in back out. but spurs guards are reluctant to do that. and how about also quit trying to give the man the ball every time, i know it's rasho, but he's open down on the block, so is oberto, nazr, but everyone waits for tim to get open and if he isnt they force a shot.

sometimes though i think tim needs to demand the ball more. plus he needs a little running or baby hook, it's there but he doesnt do that often on the block. one more thing, i would like to see tim lay a hard foul every now and then. im kind of tired seeing him finish with 1 or 2 fouls, it's the 4th he's got zero, team is down, he's getting back, drop a foul on someone hard. kill their momentum let him know it's isnt always gonna be easy. let them know, im not always nice, lol.

[Rzarector7]

Tim usually comes out like yesterday gunning and gets 3 straight baskets and then just passes the ball out of the post for a while and then Pop sits him for about 4 mins and then he is back in there shooting less it seems, that seems to be the pattern every night no matter how hot he is starting out. It is either that or he has 11 or so points in the 4th and takes over the game from time to time, that happens as well, but you rarely see him shooting consistently the whole game anymore like he used to. TD is hurt though and it shows at times, that is bothering him and his performance. I doubt at 29 the game has left him at all.

[pensive]

The frustration with Tim is very understandable. We have all heard about the injury, so I do take that in mind, BUT to me, Timmy looks like the way David did those last few years when he looked slow and creaky. Do you all remember how David was spry and agile and could run as fast as any guard in the league, and then because of age and a bad back, all that went away. Yet, even in his last years, you could still see slivers of that athleticism and agility. We all know Tim has NEVER been as athletic or nimble as David ever was, and now it looks like Tim is 39 instead of 29. He seems so out of it. Again, I know of the injury, and we all know the stance on why Tim isnt sitting out, but if he isnt going to sit out, at least try to exert yourself and make your impression on the game, PLEASE!!! I think Friday against the Heat was the first time ever that I did not want to see the ball in Tim's hands. I was pleading that Tony would just take it over himself, which he did. But if you recall, there was that one play near the end of the fourth where Tim was set up on the left block facing the basket, and he drives in and throws up this junk that clangs off the side of the rim. It was awful.
I have never been a Tim-basher. I love what he has done for us, and I he has been my favorite Spur since he got here, but Tim is not all there right now, and that concerns me greatly. With the team as it is now, we will not win the title. We do not have the fire within, nor the firepower to compete with the Pistons, and that pisses me off to have to admit that. Whether we are at full strength or not, we do not have that fire in our belly that the Pistons seem to have, and yes, Amante, while it is only January, I would expect to see alot more from this team then what we are seeing now. Just my two cents.

[I3oostedCubes]

I've also noted that Pop is more melo and letting some players get away with bad positions when he shouldn't. Oh well.

[Dark Deity]

Originally Posted by Flipmode Master

I personally feel like he shoud go to the bank shot a few more times per game. Also I want him to move and stop waiting so long once he catches the basketball.

Absoutly. While I understand completly that the hurt foot hinders his first step, the faster he moves the better chance of him getting to the line or making the basket. He needs to step it up. Too passive and just not making smart decesions with the ball.

Yeah and the perimeter guys need to shoot when they're open. I absoutly hate when they decide to put the ball on the floor because then they take some stupid shot that doesn't go in. Brent and Fin do that way too much.

[spursfan9]

double triple quadrupe team tim duncan,, he use to score.

he was unstoppable.

now he plays like a good PF.

is it all plantar fasciaitis?

or is there still confusion w/ all the new players and roles?

[Big Empty]

I notice he isn't shooting his jump hook as much. He can still rebound and block shots. nothing wrong just not being as aggressive right now.

[curiousspirit]

Tim paces himself every year and this year is not different. The Rodeo road trip and all star break are usually the turning point of the season. Tim has had the planters faciatis (?) since pre-season, yet he was very nimble and alert earlier in the season. We get frustrated every every year around this time frame. Sure, he may be in pain with the foot problem, but it won't stop him. Heck, having two sprained ankles last playoffs didn't stop him. We are frustrated but don't need to be.

[babalanja]

Last year the Spurs finished 59 and 23. Right now they are on pace to finish 62 and 20. Last year Tim delivered an MVP game 7 on gimpy ankles. This year, unless he, Manu or TP has an extreme injury (God forbid!), he will be holding the trophy in June once again. The dude's a rock, plain and simple.

[Bleedblacknsilva]

Yeah, actually the offense looked pretty good. Save for Tim holding a little too long, the ball was rotating to the weak side very well. Just horrible outside shooting.
...and free throws, ugh! I'm getting so I change the channel when they are at the line. I'd rather turn it to Discovery Health and watch an operation on an ingrown toenail.

[Malice]

Could be worse, would could have Ron Artest on our team...

[Gman]

Bench Tim!