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  #1  
Old 01-23-06, 01:10 AM
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Kobe scoring is impressive, Kobe Passing is not

Kobe was amazing against the Raptors, I have never seen anyone outside of Jordan do what he did, I know Jordan never scored 81 but Jordan never needed to. Early on when he did need to score that much he still found it in his heart to get his teammates involved.

This leads me to why I'm not as impressed with Kobe's performance. Kobe took 46 shots to get his 81 pts. During that time he managed to squeeze out two assists. My guess is the ball slipped out of his hands into the waiting arms of teammate that happened to make a basket.

Again, I have nothing against Kobe as a scorer because he is as impressive a scorer since Jordan. But don't think this makes him equal to or greater than jordan, because Jordan understood he needed his teammates and played like a team player. Jordan would have never felt the need to score 81 instead he would have worked harder to get his teammates involved.

just my two cents
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  #2  
Old 01-23-06, 01:15 AM
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I don't like Kobe very much but there is nothing bad to say about his performance tonight: second scoring record and most important the Win.
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  #3  
Old 01-23-06, 01:16 AM
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That's an amazing amount of hate to carry around.

You may not realize it, but the Lakers were down by 18 points in the 3rd quarter - Kobe shot the Lakers to victory.

As for the two assists - Kobe's teammates were 14-42 (33%) from the field despite a constant triple team on Kobe - would YOU pass to those bums?
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  #4  
Old 01-23-06, 01:17 AM
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He has 81 points and you're nitpicking about his assists?! When a guy has 81 points on over 60% shooting, don't expect him to be passing the ball around much.

I don't say stuff like this often, but if anyone bashes this performance in any way, I will never respect their basketball intelligence.

The guy's team was down 17 in the third quarter, and he singlehandedly brought them back and gave them a comfortable win. It's not like he was just chucking either, he shot over 60%, there are really no words to accurately describe a game like that.
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  #5  
Old 01-23-06, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoyalLaker
That's an amazing amount of hate to carry around.

You may not realize it, but the Lakers were down by 18 points in the 3rd quarter - Kobe shot the Lakers to victory.

As for the two assists - Kobe's teammates were 14-42 (33%) from the field despite a constant triple team on Kobe - would YOU pass to those bums?
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  #6  
Old 01-23-06, 01:24 AM
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2 Assists is nothing to write home about... And if you think its his teammates that are the problem (in general), take a look at how Brevin knight is averaging 8.3 assists and isnt exactly surrounded with an all-star roster. Yesterday Brevin got 15 assists when his team shot .383 FG%... So, my point is, having crappy teammates is no excuse.
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  #7  
Old 01-23-06, 01:33 AM
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Spurs fans, get over the fact that Kobe Bryant had an amazing game in which his team won. I don't like him much, but give him credit.
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  #8  
Old 01-23-06, 01:39 AM
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Lamar shot 1-7. Kwame was 1-5. Who else will he pass it to? Smush Parker? If Lamar is not shooting well, Kobe has to pick up the slack. Who would question him if he's shooting at 61%?
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  #9  
Old 01-23-06, 01:48 AM
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That take was not worth the two cents
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  #10  
Old 01-23-06, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzzer
Lamar shot 1-7. Kwame was 1-5. Who else will he pass it to? Smush Parker? If Lamar is not shooting well, Kobe has to pick up the slack. Who would question him if he's shooting at 61%?
(Disclaimer, Kobe Hater)

I would question him.

He is not playing a team game. Yes, his team won, what happens when he is shooting poorly?

Who is on the team that can or will elevate their games?

You can only show up your own team-mates so often, either by look or disparaging them to the press before they don't want to play with you. Someone mentioned in a thread that it looked as though Odom tanked the Sacramento game with bone-headed plays. If I were Odom, I would do that every chance I got, just to PO, Kobe and to get a trade. However, that is just me and I am a vindictive and immature individual.
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  #11  
Old 01-23-06, 02:17 AM
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This thread should be locked for stupidity.
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  #12  
Old 01-23-06, 02:19 AM
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Why the hell would I hate the Lakers? They are no threat to my team, Kobe is a great talent, but as Charles Barkley would say, "Any Knucklehead can score". Tonight was an amazing night but there is no way in hell should any NBA player getting TRIPLE TEAMED should he have only 2 assists.

The reason he single handedly brought the Lakers back is because he didn't give his teammates a chance to help him. And to answer the question posed by Lakerfan, Yes I would pass to those bums, thats what is called being a team player. Shooting 60% is great and a testiment to how good a scorer he is, but I guarantee you that this game will open the floodgates to him taking 46 shots on a regular basis, only he will be 16 of 46 next time. He has no faith in his team so he is a one man team. I prefer to see a great team effort than an individual effort like this one.

BTW Alamo Girl, I have no problem not having the respect from a person whose basketball knowledge revolves around what NBA player has the best ass.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-06, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone
Why the hell would I hate the Lakers? They are no threat to my team, Kobe is a great talent, but as Charles Barkley would say, "Any Knucklehead can score". Tonight was an amazing night but there is no way in hell should any NBA player getting TRIPLE TEAMED should he have only 2 assists.
If you have watched the game, you should know that Kobe Bryant was hardly double- teamed, nevertheless triple teamed.

Quote:

BTW Alamo Girl, I have no problem not having the respect from a person whose basketball knowledge revolves around what NBA player has the best ass.
Don't be all bitter because your basketball knowledge is much less than someone whose revolves around WHICH Nba player has the best ass.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-06, 02:41 AM
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Hey guys, let's leave the negative energy out of the conversation. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and name calling doesn't change that opinion. I think Kobe's scoring is a remarkable feat and worthy of praise for it's historical significance. That said, I wouldn't want to see this type of performance often because it reinforces the belief that Kobe is incapable of playing team basketball. Draw your own conclusions.
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  #15  
Old 01-23-06, 02:44 AM
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Boo to this thread.
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  #16  
Old 01-23-06, 02:45 AM
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ListenUp:

What the F is wrong with you!
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  #17  
Old 01-23-06, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousspirit
I wouldn't want to see this type of performance often because it reinforces the belief that Kobe is incapable of playing team basketball.
You don't win three rings by being incapable of playing team basketball.
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  #18  
Old 01-23-06, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldoror
This thread should be locked for stupidity.
if we started doing that then tons of threads around here would need to get locked and posts deleted

The guy had an opinion and stated it. People can disagree
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  #19  
Old 01-23-06, 07:33 AM
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At some point, if I'm on his team I gotta realize this guy is hot and I want him to keep shooting. My thing is, if they can't stop him, keep going to him. 81 points, WOW, I never thought anyone could still score that much.
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  #20  
Old 01-23-06, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alamo Girl
If you have watched the game, you should know that Kobe Bryant was hardly double- teamed, nevertheless triple teamed.



Don't be all bitter because your basketball knowledge is much less than someone whose revolves around WHICH Nba player has the best ass.
I watched most of the 2nd half, and yes he was doubled every time he touched the ball in the 4th. My response about being triple-teamed was to LoyalLaker who made the claim.

I never denied how amazing it was, only that it showed a total lack of discipline. The truly great players in this game can make their teammates better. That is not what Kobe did last night. In a zone like he was in he should have helped his teammates feed off his hot hand, cause that is what Jordan, Bird, Duncan, and Olajuwon would have done.

IMO it was the single greatest scoring night I have ever seen, but it pales in comparison to Duncan's near Quad-Double in the 2k3 finals, or David Robinson's Quad-Double. Those were individual efforts on both ends of the court that lifted both their teammates as well as themselves.
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  #21  
Old 01-23-06, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone
Kobe was amazing against the Raptors, I have never seen anyone outside of Jordan do what he did, I know Jordan never scored 81 but Jordan never needed to. Early on when he did need to score that much he still found it in his heart to get his teammates involved.

This leads me to why I'm not as impressed with Kobe's performance. Kobe took 46 shots to get his 81 pts. During that time he managed to squeeze out two assists. My guess is the ball slipped out of his hands into the waiting arms of teammate that happened to make a basket.

Again, I have nothing against Kobe as a scorer because he is as impressive a scorer since Jordan. But don't think this makes him equal to or greater than jordan, because Jordan understood he needed his teammates and played like a team player. Jordan would have never felt the need to score 81 instead he would have worked harder to get his teammates involved.

just my two cents
You're a HATER... dude shot 61% and had a legendary night...if I'm a teammate I want him to have the ball.... . If you're weren't impressed then you're lying.
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  #22  
Old 01-23-06, 09:25 AM
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Before i say anything, i want to say that im a loyal argentinian fan of your beloved spurs.

81 points and you are thinking about assists and other stuff... like team player
81 POINTS!!!!! If im a teammate of Kobe i will give the ball to Kobe even if im alone under the basket.

Thats team play, stick with what its working.
61% from the field, more than 50% from the 3pt line. Just AMAZING... Sorry its was more than amazing.
Get over it Spurs fans.
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  #23  
Old 01-23-06, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alamo Girl
He has 81 points and you're nitpicking about his assists?! When a guy has 81 points on over 60% shooting, don't expect him to be passing the ball around much.

I don't say stuff like this often, but if anyone bashes this performance in any way, I will never respect their basketball intelligence.

The guy's team was down 17 in the third quarter, and he singlehandedly brought them back and gave them a comfortable win. It's not like he was just chucking either, he shot over 60%, there are really no words to accurately describe a game like that.
as long as his team wins it is ok? granted, amazing performance but would we be saying the same thing if his team lost?
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  #24  
Old 01-23-06, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcone
as long as his team wins it is ok? granted, amazing performance but would we be saying the same thing if his team lost?

Honestly though it would have been okay with me even if they would have loss...I mean how are you on the floor struggling (Odom, Smush etc.) and not give the ball to the hottest shooter since 1962!
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  #25  
Old 01-23-06, 09:45 AM
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Kobe Shmobe! Who cares!
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  #26  
Old 01-23-06, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpurInDallas
Kobe Shmobe! Who cares!
You know it was impressive.
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  #27  
Old 01-23-06, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipmode Master
You know it was impressive.
Dont get me wrong, it was, but this stupid lady sitting next to me who says Kobe is fine and says she wished she worked the hotel desk that night in Colorado is really pissing me off. I wish I could slap her, or at least shake the sh!t out of her!
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  #28  
Old 01-23-06, 09:57 AM
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Is Kobe a PG or SG ? When his teammates are hitting their shots, he might deserve the critics if he's not passing them the rock. But when they're sucking ? He's a SHOOTING GUARD, a great one indeed, and also the TEAM BEST PLAYER aka the franchise boy, so why shouldn't he shoot the ball and put the scoring to the table, especially when he shot 60 friggin % from the field ? He might be an as$hole, but i RESPECT his ability as a player. :
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  #29  
Old 01-23-06, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcone
as long as his team wins it is ok? granted, amazing performance but would we be saying the same thing if his team lost?
He brought his team back from a 17 pt deficit in the third quarter. If he didnt get hot they would have lost. And if they still lost it would not have been because of him but because others shot poorly.
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  #30  
Old 01-23-06, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcone
as long as his team wins it is ok? granted, amazing performance but would we be saying the same thing if his team lost?
It should be, because everyone went ape**** when MJ put up 62 and lost.
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  #31  
Old 01-23-06, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipmode Master
You're a HATER... dude shot 61% and had a legendary night...if I'm a teammate I want him to have the ball.... . If you're weren't impressed then you're lying.
Why would I hate Kobe? I don't even hate the Lakers anymore.

This was pointed out on another board.

Only 4 guys in the NBA average more than 15.2 shots per game, Kobe averages 15.2 misses per game. If you average over 30 shots per game and get a hot hand your going to have a night like this. In an 82 game schedule the odds are in your favor that one game will be great.

Mark my words, Kobe will use this as leverage to up his average number of shots to 40 per game.

Any Knucklehead can score in the NBA if he takes enough shots.
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  #32  
Old 01-23-06, 10:07 AM
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Sorry to break this to the haters, but his team was fully behind him in that effort. They were dishing it to him each & every time. Nothing wrong with that.

Gotta give it up to Kobe..
He's just trying to win the title this year..the scoring title
it's all he can hope for this year
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  #33  
Old 01-23-06, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone
Any Knucklehead can score in the NBA if he takes enough shots.

Listen to you... dude had not 50...not 60...NOT 75....BUT 81..FREAKING POINTS... "any knuckle head" taking 50 shots a game couldn't do that... You're acting like he was wide open the WHOLE game. Reason he took so many shots was because he was on FIRE, I'm a spur fan and I was yelling at the Lakers "Give Kobe the ball" and move out the way. He brought them back when no one else would...what is wrong with that? nothing. Yeah he takes alot of shots but last night was great...get over it.
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  #34  
Old 01-23-06, 10:29 AM
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Kobe's a scorer not a shooter. Kobe, AI, and Lebron are all putting up over 30 ppg this year, but Kobe and AI shot around 45% while LeBron in his third season is at 49%. Kobe got hot, had a great game, in the end his team mates were probably happy they won, but it helped Kobe's ego more then it helped the Lakers as a team. It looks more and more like Kobe is so busy trying to improve his status as a player, that he is forgetting that he actually plays on a team with team mates.

Although the win helped the Lakers record, what did it do for thier chemistry when they realize thier leader and best player doesn't believe in them one bit and feels like he has to be superman just for them to get the win. There is alot of mental game involved in basketball, didn't Jordan say once that basketball is 90% mental, that the more you belive in yourself and your confidence the better you will become. Well Kobe is on top of the world right now, he probably believes that he is the best basketball player ever! His team mates, they are probably wondering if they belong in the NBA at all and when Los Angeles will change thier team's name from the Lakers to the L.A. Kobe's because the only reason they seem to even be playing is becuase the rules say you need 5 guys on the court.

Quote:
Only 4 guys in the NBA average more than 15.2 shots per game, Kobe averages 15.2 misses per game
Wow, that's crazy...............
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  #35  
Old 01-23-06, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone
Any Knucklehead can score in the NBA if he takes enough shots.
Give me a break. I can name you countless players who simply do not have the skills or talent to get 81 pts 61% shooting from 46 fgs. You think that Smush Parker or Lamar Odom could have gotten 81 pts if they had taken enough shots?
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  #36  
Old 01-23-06, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Mob
It should be, because everyone went ape**** when MJ put up 62 and lost.
Celtics were hardly that time's Raptors though.

They were the best.

Imagine kobe scoring 81 against Detroit. MJ's was something like that.. in the PLAYOFFS.

so get a clue please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone

Any Knucklehead can score in the NBA if he takes enough shots.
you are making it harder and harder for us to take you seriously.
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  #37  
Old 01-23-06, 10:45 AM
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"Kobe Bryant scored 81 points in the Lakers' 122-104 win over the Raptors on Sunday night, the second-highest total in NBA history. It's by far the most Kobe has ever scored without having to buy his wife a diamond afterward."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...pot/index.html
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  #38  
Old 01-23-06, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice
"Kobe Bryant scored 81 points in the Lakers' 122-104 win over the Raptors on Sunday night, the second-highest total in NBA history. It's by far the most Kobe has ever scored without having to buy his wife a diamond afterward."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...pot/index.html
Classic.
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  #39  
Old 01-23-06, 11:01 AM
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It is interesting how the nba.com recap of the game has ZERO comments from Kobe's teammates, saying anything about Kobe's 81 points. PJax doesn't really even say anything.

It is the opposing coach and Players who gush about it.
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  #40  
Old 01-23-06, 11:02 AM
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Jackson has already blasted Kobe earlier this year for not being a more team player

I doubt this game helped that cause
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  #41  
Old 01-23-06, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
Jackson has already blasted Kobe earlier this year for not being a more team player

I doubt this game helped that cause
For all of the bashing and "Kobe doesn't make his teammates better" talk, the statistics prove otherwise.

The Lakers PG - Smush Parker, (who spent most of the last two years in the CBA) is having career highs in EVERY category.

The Lakers C - Chris Mihm, is having a career year.

The Lakers PF - Brian Cook, is having a career year.

Lamar Odom is having a typical Odom year.

The bottom line is - his teammates aren't that good and the Lakers have a better record when Kobe shoots 24+ times per game than when he shoots <24 times per game (like 59% vs 40%).
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  #42  
Old 01-23-06, 12:31 PM
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Well during this year Jackson obviously didnt think that way. You dont think it would be better if he did get his teammates more involved?
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  #43  
Old 01-23-06, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by To be named later
It is interesting how the nba.com recap of the game has ZERO comments from Kobe's teammates, saying anything about Kobe's 81 points. PJax doesn't really even say anything.

It is the opposing coach and Players who gush about it.
Funny, I was watching the SCSR (So Cal Sports Report) and they had Mihm, Smush, Walton and Jackson on there gushing about how great Kobe was.
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  #44  
Old 01-23-06, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoyalLaker
For all of the bashing and "Kobe doesn't make his teammates better" talk, the statistics prove otherwise.

The Lakers PG - Smush Parker, (who spent most of the last two years in the CBA) is having career highs in EVERY category.

The Lakers C - Chris Mihm, is having a career year.

The Lakers PF - Brian Cook, is having a career year.

Lamar Odom is having a typical Odom year.

The bottom line is - his teammates aren't that good and the Lakers have a better record when Kobe shoots 24+ times per game than when he shoots <24 times per game (like 59% vs 40%).
A month or two ago I would have disagreed,but since I got NBA League pass...I've watched the Lakers...closely and just about everything you say is true. All though I can't give KB credit for helping Mihm develop that hookshot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by missmyzte
Funny, I was watching the SCSR (So Cal Sports Report) and they had Mihm, Smush, Walton and Jackson on there gushing about how great Kobe was.
ZING! BURN!

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  #45  
Old 01-23-06, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
Well during this year Jackson obviously didnt think that way. You dont think it would be better if he did get his teammates more involved?
No.

There's only one other legitimate NBA starter on the roster - Odom. And for all of his talent, Odom has a habit of disappearing (not new, watched it when he was a Clipper) and not asserting himself - he was 0-5 in the 1st half and 1-7 in the game.

The other Lakers:

Smush Parker - career CBA player until this year

Chris Mihm - career backup in 7 seasons

Devean George - BB IQ of 5

Brian Cook - career backup

Kwame Brown - called a "******" by MJ and a p-ssy by Phil Jackson

Sasha Vujacic - shooting a career high 34%

Luke Walton - his old man (Bill) blasted him for his poor shooting skills on national TV.

Andrew Bynum - the youngest player in the history of the NBA.

The other guys are even worse.

These current Lakers "can't" be made any better. The team needs a serious talent upgrade, which is why they are considering gambling on a nutcase like Artest.
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  #46  
Old 01-23-06, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoyalLaker
For all of the bashing and "Kobe doesn't make his teammates better" talk, the statistics prove otherwise.

The Lakers PG - Smush Parker, (who spent most of the last two years in the CBA) is having career highs in EVERY category.

The Lakers C - Chris Mihm, is having a career year.

The Lakers PF - Brian Cook, is having a career year.

Lamar Odom is having a typical Odom year.

The bottom line is - his teammates aren't that good and the Lakers have a better record when Kobe shoots 24+ times per game than when he shoots <24 times per game (like 59% vs 40%).
Give me a break! Throw any bunch of SCRUBS on a team and give them starter minutes and you'll see career numbers! Also, for your info, making you teammates better doesnt always have to do with stats and how many assists Kobe gets. Its about leading by example, or trusting in your team. No matter how horrible he might think this team might be, he wanted to be the man, so he has no choice but to depend on this collection of CBA players and journey men. Im so tired of hearing the "Poor Kobe has no help." ..he made his bed, now he has to lay in it.
Why is he dropping record number of points this year? Bottom line is he doesnt trust his team, and sooner than later that will bit him in the ass in the end, because like it or not the only way you win consistently in this league is though TEAM ball...
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Old 01-23-06, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice
Give me a break! Throw any bunch of SCRUBS on a team and give them starter minutes and you'll see career numbers! Also, for your info, making you teammates better doesnt always have to do with stats and how many assists Kobe gets. Its about leading by example, or trusting in your team. No matter how horrible he might think this team might be, he wanted to be the man, so he has no choice but to depend on this collection of CBA players and journey men. Im so tired of hearing the "Poor Kobe has no help." ..he made his bed, now he has to lay in it.
Why is he dropping record number of points this year? Bottom line is he doesnt trust his team, and sooner than later that will bit him in the ass in the end, because like it or not the only way you win consistently in this league is though TEAM ball...
Dude you just call them scrubs..... and now you get on Kobe for not passing them the ball more.
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  #48  
Old 01-23-06, 12:53 PM
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That's the problem of Kobe and his lovers. They think that because the other Lakers players are not that good Kobe shouldn't pass to them. That's totally wrong. Yes most of those players are not good scorers. But if you don't give them opportunities they'd never improve. Players do improve their abilities on the court, that's historical facts. You can't just expect people to learn only in practices. In game experience is the most important. But then Kobe - and his lovers - believe that if you're weak you're out, I won't give you the time to improve. Afterall, it's MY SHOW. I don't have time for you scrubs. Let me take the shots, because we're down. If we're up 20, sure, I'd let you guys shoot a little. But no, we're down, it's time for Mr.Hero to save the day, not the time for you to learn how to shoot. In fact, I don't care about you guys at all. Why would I care about scrubs?
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  #49  
Old 01-23-06, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson50
That's the problem of Kobe and his lovers. They think that because the other Lakers players are not that good Kobe shouldn't pass to them. That's totally wrong. Yes most of those players are not good scorers. But if you don't give them opportunities they'd never improve. Players do improve their abilities on the court, that's historical facts. You can't just expect people to learn only in practices. In game experience is the most important. But then Kobe - and his lovers - believe that if you're weak you're out, I won't give you the time to improve. Afterall, it's MY SHOW. I don't have time for you scrubs. Let me take the shots, because we're down. If we're up 20, sure, I'd let you guys shoot a little. But no, we're down, it's time for Mr.Hero to save the day, not the time for you to learn how to shoot. In fact, I don't care about you guys at all. Why would I care about scrubs?
You have a point...but Gawd I hope you're not calling me a Kobe lover... I'm just saying his team isn't up to par like say a Phoneix. I have acknowledge dude should pass the ball more but for like the last week I think ever shot he's taken has been pretty much justified because he's been on fire.
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Old 01-23-06, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipmode Master
You have a point...but Gawd I hope you're not calling me a Kobe lover... I'm just saying his team isn't up to par like say a Phoneix. I have acknowledge dude should pass the ball more but for like the last week I think ever shot he's taken has been pretty much justified because he's been on fire.
I'm not targeting you. I don't have any target at all, if someone is a Kobe lover he'd fit his shoes right in, but I'm not calling anyone's name. Also I do know that if you're the first option you'd have to shoot most, but you got to give teammates confidence and learning opportunities also, that's a balance great players have to find, and Kobe doesn't seem to find it at all.
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