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Old 10-13-05, 03:23 PM
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Hollinger Profiles: San Antonio Spurs

Brent Barry
It was an off year for him, but Barry provided outside shooting that the Spurs needed. His TS% was among the best in history in his final season in Seattle but sank to less exalted levels with the Spurs. ... Complete Profile ...........It was an off year for him, but Barry provided outside shooting that the Spurs needed. His TS% was among the best in history in his final season in Seattle but sank to less exalted levels with the Spurs. Barry hit 35.7 percent of his 3-pointers, the first time in six years he was below 40 percent, and his overall shooting mark slipped to 42.3 percent. Barry's phenomenal Assist Ratio also sank to more normal levels, as he wasn't asked to create as much offense as he had in Seattle. On a positive note, his Turnover Ratio dropped substantially since he rarely had to dribble.

Barry is a liability on defense, but he's a smart player who mastered how to send opponents toward help defenders. A good example came in the Finals, when Detroit had trouble exploiting a mismatch with Barry guarding Tayshaun Prince, because Barry would front Prince. That forced Detroit to throw a pass that led Prince directly into Tim Duncan, and the Pistons were reluctant to try that.

The smarts and good height for his position have enabled Barry to cope with a lack of strength and declining lateral quickness. As long as he can hold his own at the defensive end, Barry should give San Antonio plenty of value over the final three years of his contract, because he is likely to have a much better year shooting the ball.

Most similar at age: Jon Barry





Bruce Bowen
One of the game's top defenders, Bowen nearly won the Defensive Player of the Year trophy last season and is an annual member of the All-Defense team. Bowen is at his best against players who like to score ... Complete Profile ..........One of the game's top defenders, Bowen nearly won the Defensive Player of the Year trophy last season and is an annual member of the All-Defense team. Bowen is at his best against players who like to score off the dribble, as his quick feet, long arms, and dogged determination present a frustrating combination. Bowen isn't as effective against post players, but he's quick enough to defend point guards. In San Antonio's two key wins in the Finals in Games 5 and 7, Bowen's defensive stops on Detroit point guard Chauncey Billups provided the difference. Bowen also is a good help defender and can distract opponents when he plays at the top of a zone.

His play has earned Bowen a reputation as a cheap player, with both Ray Allen and Vince Carter calling him out during the season. Bowen has a tendency to step under players as they go up for a jump shot, causing them to land awkwardly, and that's what drew Carter's ire. But when one considers he's been playing for nearly a decade and has guarded the opposing team's best scorer for most of it, Bowen has gotten into relatively few kerfuffles.

Offensively, the only thing Bowen can do is hit 3-pointers from the corner. Fortunately, he knows this, and that's what keeps his Turnover Ratio so low. Bowen shot 40.3 percent on 3s but is an absolutely terrible shooter off the dribble and has trouble finishing around the basket. He's also a poor foul shooter and a surprisingly bad rebounder.

That's why Bowen's PER is poor. Nevertheless, his skills as a defensive stopper are valuable to the Spurs. Yet one wonders if San Antonio wouldn't be better with Ginobili playing the stopper role, as he did at times in the playoffs, and Barry starting alongside him. We won't find out anytime soon, because the Spurs hardly need to shuffle the deck right now.

Most similar at age: Tyrone Corbin





Tim Duncan
As I mentioned in the Ben Wallace comment, I can understand how Wallace won the Defensive Player of the Year award because he played substantially more minutes than Duncan did. What I don't get is all ... Complete Profile ..........As I mentioned in the Ben Wallace comment, I can understand how Wallace won the Defensive Player of the Year award because he played substantially more minutes than Duncan did. What I don't get is all the other years. The coaches have voted Duncan first-team All-Defense six of the eight seasons he's been in the league, but the writers have this giant blind spot toward him when it comes to Defensive Player of the Year voting. Last season, for instance, Duncan got only six votes for the award and finished fourth in the voting. Marcus Camby, who played fewer minutes and was less effective when he played, got 19. Huh?

The past two years Duncan has been the linchpin of two of the best defensive teams in history, and yet he has never won the Defensive Player of the Year trophy. He wasn't even the highest-finishing Spur, as his teammate Bowen beat him in the voting for two straight seasons. I realize Duncan isn't as spectacular as some other players and doesn't come flying in from left field to swat shots into the 12th row, but is that really our criterion? If the writers are covering teams for 82 games they should be able to see beyond this. The guy is a one-man roadblock.

What people fail to understand about Duncan is how hard it is to combine dominant shot-blocking with dominant rebounding. Most players who block shots do so in part by leaving the defensive boards exposed. If a player leaves his man to go for a block and jumps as high as he can to get it, his man has an open path to the basket. Thus, if the player fails to block the shot, his man can easily get an offensive rebound and score. Duncan almost never gets out of position like this. He blocks some shots without jumping at all and on others he uses his long arms and timing to deflect the shot with just a quick hop. As a result, he never leaves the offensive boards exposed even as he's blocking shots at a prodigious rate. Last season Duncan blocked 3.1 shots per 40 minutes while posting the third-best Rebound Rate at his position, both of which were better rates than Wallace's.

Duncan had the league's best Defensive PER by far, and his numbers the year before were just as dominant. Over the past two seasons, the Spurs gave up 7.3 points more per 48 minutes when Duncan left the court. The same numbers for Bowen, Wallace, and Artest are 3.0, 3.3, and 4.6 respectively. No disrespect to those three, but Duncan is clearly the best defensive player in the game. Maybe some day the writers will notice.

Offensively, he's no slouch either. His trademark bank shot from the left block is the centerpiece of a diverse post game. Duncan has markedly cut his Turnover Ratio the past two seasons, but he needs to develop more moves going to his left and it would be nice if he'd learn how to shoot a lefty lay-up. Otherwise, the only noteworthy accomplishment is Duncan's incredible consistency. His past three seasons are virtual carbon copies, and it seems he can keep producing them ad infinitum.

Most similar at age: Patrick Ewing





Michael Finley
Finley's energy waned noticeably last season, and as a result he had his worst season as a Maverick. For an obvious example, look at his free-throw attempts. Finley never has had a great FTA rate, but ... Complete Profile ..........Finley's energy waned noticeably last season, and as a result he had his worst season as a Maverick. For an obvious example, look at his free-throw attempts. Finley never has had a great FTA rate, but last season it dropped precipitously to just one for every seven field-goal attempts. That's how he ended up with a mediocre TS% despite hitting 40 percent on 3-pointers for a second straight season.

Finley's defense also dropped off a bit. For years he's been the Mavs' perimeter stopper, but last season he handed that role off to Josh Howard. While Finley remains athletic enough to be a decent defender, he's no longer in the upper tier at his position. Similarly, his Rebound Rate has fallen off the past two seasons after several years near the top of the shooting guard heap.

Finley's best skill at this point is his ability to avoid turnovers. He's not a great dribbler, but fortunately he knows it and sticks mostly to catch-and-shoot situations or taking a single bounce to his left for a mid-range jumper. Those skills should make him a valuable sixth man wherever he signs this summer. But it seems his days as an All-Star are well behind him.

Update: Signed with San Antonio Spurs

Most similar at age: Glen Rice





Manu Ginobili
Ginobili is one of the league's most daring offensive players, which has quickly earned him a following among fans. He will throw passes to guys who don't even know they're open, specializing in cross-court ... Complete Profile ..........Ginobili is one of the league's most daring offensive players, which has quickly earned him a following among fans. He will throw passes to guys who don't even know they're open, specializing in cross-court bounce passes. He's perfected a play with Tony Parker where Parker throws it to him just over crosscourt and then cuts down the lane like he's about to set a pick. If Parker's defender turns his back, which happened about once a game, Ginobili would fire a laser beam on the bounce for a Parker lay-up. Ginobili has the same approach off the dribble, going behind his back frequently and changing directions at knee-breaking angles on drives to the basket.

His daredevil style makes him turnover-prone, but it's also made him incredibly difficult to stop -- even though defenders know he goes left every time. With the rules against hand-checking giving an advantage to quicker players, Ginobili had free rein to go to the basket and took advantage. His free-throw rate ballooned more than 50 percent even though his field-goal attempts were basically unchanged. As a result, his TS% shot up to the top four at his position and his 40-minute scoring average increased by over four points. Ginobili also has become a steady outside shooter, hitting 37.6 percent, and few guards are better rebounders.

As an added plus, Ginobili is an outstanding defensive player. He has incredibly quick hands and during the Finals he arguably did a better job on Richard Hamilton than Bruce Bowen did. The Spurs don't employ him as a defensive stopper, but he could easily fill the role if needed.

When Ginobili signed a six-year, $52 million deal to stay with the Spurs a year ago, some worried that San Antonio had overpaid. Now it appears that Manu is the one who got the short end. With the rules shifting to suit his audacious style, he's become one of the best guards in basketball.

Most similar at age: Eddie Jones





Robert Horry
A small chorus of people think Horry's playoff heroics are overblown since his career playoff stats (11.7 points per 40 minutes, 43.2 FG%) are almost exactly the same as his regular season stats (11.6, ... Complete Profile ..........A small chorus of people think Horry's playoff heroics are overblown since his career playoff stats (11.7 points per 40 minutes, 43.2 FG%) are almost exactly the same as his regular season stats (11.6, 43.1) Don't believe them. Here's the thing about the playoffs: Nearly everybody's stats go down because of the increase in competition, with the average drop being seven percent. Somebody who can maintain his averages or increase them slightly isn't just treading water -- he is significantly dialing up his play. Seen in that light, Horry's playoff numbers are easier to square with his many memorable shots. That said, he's a pretty ordinary player most of the time. He's just happened to be on teams with dominant big men for virtually his entire career, and to his credit he's taken advantage of his chances to take big shots.

Horry hit 37.0 percent on 3-pointers and rediscovered his stroke at the free-throw line. Hence, his TS% was decent despite a low field-goal percentage. Horry also defended well at the power forward spot, especially when he didn't have to deal with wide-bodied post players and surprisingly blocked over two shots per 40 minutes.

Horry isn't as effective on offense, at least until June rolls around. He has no post game and can't create his own offense. He's also a poor rebounder, and since he's no spring chicken, one has to worry about how long he can keep producing at this level. But after what he did last spring, the Spurs aren't in any hurry to unload him. Horry re-signed with San Antonio as a free agent and will again serve as the Spurs' top frontcourt reserve.

Most similar at age: Lionel Simmons





Sean Marks
Why is Marks in the league? At first I thought it was a ploy by the Spurs to have every continent represented on their roster, but really, does New Zealand count as anything? Marks can hit a mid-range ... Complete Profile ..........Why is Marks in the league? At first I thought it was a ploy by the Spurs to have every continent represented on their roster, but really, does New Zealand count as anything? Marks can hit a mid-range jumper, but the Kiwi from Cal is severely lacking in the muscle department and has never played well in his many NBA stops.





Nazr Mohammed
Just a guess, but I'd say he's the best player ever whose first name ended in "zr." The "Spuzrs" acquired Mohammed from the Knicks at midseason after he had delivered a surprisingly potent offensive attack ... Complete Profile ..........Just a guess, but I'd say he's the best player ever whose first name ended in "zr." The "Spuzrs" acquired Mohammed from the Knicks at midseason after he had delivered a surprisingly potent offensive attack for New York. He wasn't quite as effective offensively in San Antonio, probably because he was over his head to begin with, but he gave San Antonio the rebounding and shot-making that Nesterovic couldn't.

Mohammed is a smart player who has a nose for the ball on the glass, resulting in one of the best Rebound Rates among centers. He's an outstanding help defender too. Mohammed doesn't block as many shots as Duncan or Rasho -- although he blocked shots at an uncharacteristically high rate in his 23 games as a Spurs -- but he can use his body to root out post players and will take charges.

Offensively, Mohammed has an ugly hitch in his jump shot and shoots mostly line drives, but he has become reasonably accurate with it from inside 12 feet. That and the offensive rebounds allow him to subsist as an offensive player despite having a limited post game and terrible hands. Overall, he's an upgrade from Nesterovic, and the Spurs probably wouldn't have won the title without him.

Most similar at age: LaSalle Thompson





Rasho Nesterovic
Nesterovic went to the bench late in the season when the Spurs could no longer live with his lack of offensive production. Nesterovic is a good defensive player who has wide shoulders and excellent timing ... Complete Profile ..........Nesterovic went to the bench late in the season when the Spurs could no longer live with his lack of offensive production. Nesterovic is a good defensive player who has wide shoulders and excellent timing on blocks, making him an imposing obstacle in the middle. He also does a decent job on the boards.

Offensively, he's become increasingly useless. Nesterovic's 46.0 percent shooting doesn't look so bad until you realize he took 30 foul shots the entire season, a pathetic total for an alleged center. He probably wasn't anxious to shoot more, as he shot under 50 percent for a second straight season with his awkward, one-handed free-throw routine. Nesterovic is decent at playing the high-low game with Duncan and can hit a jump shot from the foul line if left open, but his overall contribution is minimal.

For those reasons, he'll shift to a reserve role this season. The arrival of Oberto means Nesterovic may be headed for a string of DNPs unless somebody gets injured, which isn't what the Spurs were hoping for when they gave him $42 million two years ago. The Spurs are shopping him to anyone who will listen, but chances are they'll be stuck with this contract for a while.

Most similar at age: Andrew Lang





Fabricio Oberto
Oberto has no translated stats because his team didn't compete in the Euroleague in 2004-05. However, in the previous two seasons his numbers translated to a decent pro power forward who could make shots ... Complete Profile ..........Oberto has no translated stats because his team didn't compete in the Euroleague in 2004-05. However, in the previous two seasons his numbers translated to a decent pro power forward who could make shots around the basket and provide some toughness. The Spurs signed Oberto over the summer, where he'll join his fellow Argentinean Manu Ginobili.

Unfortunately, Oberto will fit in with the Spurs in one other way. He has become a horrendously bad free-throw shooter, making just 20 of 57 this past season. He also may be a bit undersized for an NBA frontcourt.





Tony Parker
Parker signed a six-year, $66 million extension before last season that seems a lot less overvalued after his strong 2004-05 campaign. Parker boosted his 40-minute scoring rate to 19.5 points per 40 minutes ... Complete Profile ..........Parker signed a six-year, $66 million extension before last season that seems a lot less overvalued after his strong 2004-05 campaign. Parker boosted his 40-minute scoring rate to 19.5 points per 40 minutes and became a much heavier participant in the offense, boosting his Usage Rate to the 9th-best among point guards. Parker still has a long way to go as a shooter, converting only 27.6 percent on 3-pointers, but he's so quick that he has no trouble getting into the paint for shots. When he drives, Parker has one of the best floaters in basketball and his release is so quick that big men rarely get a piece of it.

Defensively, Parker has become much better. He has quick feet and has developed his upper body to the point that he's no longer easy pickings for opposing guards in the post. Overall, his Defensive PER was among the best at his position, a marked improvement from where he was just two years ago. He also made progress as a rebounder.

Parker continues to struggle with game-to-game consistency and his turnovers tend to come in bunches, which sours some people on his overall contribution. The Spurs would like to see him drive and dish more often and improve the jumper, but they'll gladly take six more years of this.

Most similar at age: B.J. Armstrong






Beno Udrih
San Antonio's first-round pick in 2004 stepped into the rotation immediately and played much better than expected, at least until Detroit's pressure defense turned him into a crazed turnover machine in ... Complete Profile ..........San Antonio's first-round pick in 2004 stepped into the rotation immediately and played much better than expected, at least until Detroit's pressure defense turned him into a crazed turnover machine in the Finals. Udrih is a scorer more than a passer, even more so than Parker in that regard. He's a good outside shooter who hit 40.9 percent of his 3-pointers and his size and quick release allow him to hit shots while defended. The lefty doesn't have the extra gear to get to the basket, however, and rarely breaks down defenses off the dribble.

Udrih was solid if unspectacular at the defensive end, but considering his size he was a surprisingly poor rebounder. For his sophomore campaign, he'll have to hone his point-guard skills and improve his penetration ability. He's a good backup right now, but if he's ever going to be a starter, he has to be more than a shooting specialist.

Most similar at age: Luke Ridnour





Nick Van Exel
For a guy with a bad knee and a height disadvantage, it was surprisingly hard for opponents to take advantage of Van Exel. He gave up at least three inches every night at shooting guard but handled it ... Complete Profile ..........For a guy with a bad knee and a height disadvantage, it was surprisingly hard for opponents to take advantage of Van Exel. He gave up at least three inches every night at shooting guard but handled it well. He has a good poke-away move he used when opponents posted him up, and as the season wore on teams seemed much more willing to go after Stoudamire. Van Exel played much harder on defense than he had the past few seasons, and since the team was going nowhere, he deserves credit for that.

Offensively, he can create shots but continues to be a low-percentage shooter. Van Exel is almost exclusively a jump shooter now and rarely gets to the foul line, so his 38.1 field-goal percentage didn't cut the mustard. He's a slick ballhandler though, and that should help him if he moves back to point guard this season.

Van Exel will be in a different uniform this year after the Blazers cut him over the summer. He'll be looking to sign with a contender for the veteran's minimum and provide some of his jump-shooting skill off the bench.

Update: Signed with San Antonio Spurs

Most similar at age: Tim Hardaway
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  #2  
Old 10-13-05, 03:42 PM
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I'm glad someone else notices how Duncan has gotten shafted for the DPOY award too many damn times while Big Ben is a great defensive player, he has won the award too many times.

Also if writters keep talking about Rasho like this we will never be able to get rid of him
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Old 10-13-05, 03:48 PM
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Duncan's defense gets overlooked because he has spectacular offense to go with it. Players like Ben Wallace are also very good at defense, but defense is usually the only thing the critics look at when evaluating these-type players.
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Old 10-13-05, 03:48 PM
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Most similar at age: Patrick Ewing

I've never heard Tim utter something stupid!

I would say more like Hakeem!
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Old 10-13-05, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Duncan's defense gets overlooked because he has spectacular offense to go with it. Players like Ben Wallace are also very good at defense, but defense is usually the only thing the critics look at when evaluating these-type players.
You know I though about that as well but remember when Artest and Bowen were head to head to get the award, they said becuase of what Artest does on the offensive end they gave it to him. If that was the case then how the hell does Ben keep winning it over Duncan, and last year was one of Ben's worst defensive years.
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Old 10-13-05, 03:57 PM
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Maybe it's just discrimination against Spurs players. That's the only link I can find !

Odd...I was sure my theory was correct but that Artest-Bowen thing proves otherwise.
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Old 10-13-05, 04:03 PM
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The Most Similar at Age is dumb. If you put together that team would they make it to the conference finals much less the NBA finals?

I don't think so.
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Old 10-13-05, 04:04 PM
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The above profile really does underline one thing about TD, he is the best ball palyer in the league if not the world -- thanks for posting.
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Old 10-13-05, 04:05 PM
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"Horry isn't as effective on offense, at least until June rolls around. He has no post game and can't create his own offense. He's also a poor rebounder, and since he's no spring chicken, one has to worry about how long he can keep producing at this level."

i think his post game and his rebounding was actually quite exceptional this post season..
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Old 10-13-05, 04:06 PM
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hollinger has nice intentions but his attempt to quantify basketball is just not working. spit in his numbers into a computer and the spurs may have never been predicted to win a title!

i've been to a forum on which he is a prominent member. bunch of math geeks trying to make basketball as boring as possible.
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Old 10-13-05, 04:07 PM
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Tony Parker's most similar is BJ Armstrong? lol
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Old 10-13-05, 04:21 PM
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Really, I have never really thought of TD as the top defender in the league, although I knew he was up there, and I took it for granted that Wallace had the better defensive game. This guy's stats and figures just flattened me as how dominant TD is at both ends of the floor. I still think the system is why TD has been overlooked so many times. I have known Tim is a stud, but always more on the offensive side, yet the fact remains that while TD has been on the Spurs they have always been one of the best defensive teams in the league. It's no coincidence.
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Old 10-13-05, 04:25 PM
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Out of Tim's 8 years, the Spurs have been (by points per possession allowed) the top team 6 times, second 1 time and third 1 time. Sure, give guys like Pop, DRob and Bruce credit, but Tim should definitely have won a DPOY by now.

It is the same problem as his offense - his D just isn't flashy enough to grab attention. He doesn't block shots into the 12th row. He doesn't use a great deal of athleticism to block shots or grab boards. He never "gives up his body" to take charges.
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Old 10-13-05, 04:35 PM
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Our NBA Champion San Antonio Spurs (according to John Hollinger of ESPN Insider)

Jon Barry
Tyrone Corbin
Patrick Ewing
Glen Rice
Eddie Jones
Lionel Simmons
LaSalle Thompson
Andrew Lang
B.J. Armstrong
Luke Ridnour
Tim Hardaway

I am totally convinced Hollinger is a SPUR-Hater!
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Old 10-13-05, 04:35 PM
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Rasho......He seems to florish without Duncan. If I remember correctly two years ago when TD was out with the ankle injury Sho put up ome damn good numbers! If we trade him he will only get better. Playing with Timmy is different from playing with KG. Garnett is NOT a very post oriented player. Leaving Sho with more room to operate.Where as Tim is the dominant post player we have grown to understand. Rasho now has to stick jumpers instead of layups. Garnett would get doubled and would be forced to throw it to the post, with a reciving Rasho and very little resistance. With all do respect to Duncan, throwing it to Rasho is a very falted move.....Hes not great at sticking j's. Thats his fault!(sho)
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Old 10-13-05, 04:39 PM
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Most similar to crap.......so what he's saying is that if we suited up the 'most simiar' players on a team they would win a championship.
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Old 10-13-05, 04:50 PM
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I like his anlaysis at times. Obviously he is going to be skeptical for a lot of players who aren't YOUNG, ATHLETIC, and STATISTICALLY dominant. But no rating system is perfect, and neither is a subjective system where you watch 100+ games a year etc....

His stats have their place and help equalize players in different systems in terms of statistical production. With things such as injuries, chemistry, random luck etc.... of course no stat or analysis will be perfect.

The Similiarity Rating systems are simply a combo of statistical profile combined with age, height, experience etc....
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Old 10-13-05, 05:07 PM
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Most similar player at same age for the above-mentioned players, in 2005, from Basketballreference.com

TD: David Robinson
Tony: Kenny Anderson
Manu: Ray Williams
Bruce: Chris Ford
Brent: Danny Ainge
Beno: Luke Ridnour
Horry: Rod Higgins
Rasho: Brian Skinner
Nazr: Chris Gatling
NVE: Derek Harper
Finley: Glen Rice
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Old 10-13-05, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulfood76
Our NBA Champion San Antonio Spurs (according to John Hollinger of ESPN Insider)

Jon Barry
Tyrone Corbin
Patrick Ewing
Glen Rice
Eddie Jones
Lionel Simmons
LaSalle Thompson
Andrew Lang
B.J. Armstrong
Luke Ridnour
Tim Hardaway

I am totally convinced Hollinger is a SPUR-Hater!
john hollinger:

most similiar in writing style-guy who writes abducted alien baby stories for national inquirer
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Old 10-13-05, 05:38 PM
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The analysis is pretty good, but the comparisons to past players are just stupid.

It's not just that the players he compares our guys to are consistently worse. It's that they don't even have similar skills.

He waxes eloquent about Duncan's defensive genius, then compares him to . . . Patrick Ewing?

Manu Ginobili is Eddie Jones? Good grief. The next time Eddie Jones makes a daring half-court pass will be the first.

Tony Parker is BJ Armstrong? Please. They're not even good at the same things. BJ was a spot-up shooter. Tony is a slasher.
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  #21  
Old 10-13-05, 05:45 PM
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here's my most similiar list:

tim duncan-tim duncan
manu ginobli-manu ginobli
tony parker-tony parker
bruce bowen-bruce bowen
nazr mohammed-nazr mohammed

john hollinger-stephen a. smith or woody paige
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  #22  
Old 10-13-05, 05:52 PM
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Good points about Duncan's defense - I hope some of the DPY voters take note of it.


Quote:
Why is Marks in the league? At first I thought it was a ploy by the Spurs to have every continent represented on their roster...
This was actually pretty funny, even though I like Sean Marks.


Quote:
Nesterovic's 46.0 percent shooting doesn't look so bad until you realize he took 30 foul shots the entire season, a pathetic total for an alleged center.
Ouch! Is that really all the attempts he had for the whole season? 30?! (I had to look that up because I didn't believe it. Sure enough, he had 30 attempts for the season from the free-throw line. By comparison, Duncan had 455.) I don't think I've ever seen a better indicator of a lack of aggression for a center than that.


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Overall, his (Tony Parker's) Defensive PER was among the best at his position
I didn't realize that. Good on TP!
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  #23  
Old 10-13-05, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesatx4
The Most Similar at Age is dumb. If you put together that team would they make it to the conference finals much less the NBA finals?

I don't think so.
Exactly what I wanted to say. I disagreed with pretty much all of the comparisons. Maybe, just based on numbers you can name specific players. But, based on playing style, contribution to a team, and overall ability, it's BS.
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  #24  
Old 10-14-05, 11:49 AM
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I realize Duncan isn't as spectacular as some other players and doesn't come flying in from left field to swat shots into the 12th row, but is that really our criterion?
Yes, John, it is.

Until TD starts growling, glaring, flexing and finger-wagging, after every blocked shot, he won't win DPoY.



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[Ginobili's] daredevil style makes him turnover-prone, but it's also made him incredibly difficult to stop -- even though defenders know he goes left every time.
"The Manu Without Fear"?



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Why is Marks in the league?
Well, AFAIK, Marks is on the team because of his "lockeroom personality" and his work ethic during team practices.
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Old 10-14-05, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossu
Marks is on the team because of his "lockeroom personality" and his work ethic during team practices.
Marks may be the only player in NBA history to sustain a contract based on the quality of his practical jokes.
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Old 10-14-05, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar
The analysis is pretty good, but the comparisons to past players are just stupid.

It's not just that the players he compares our guys to are consistently worse. It's that they don't even have similar skills.

He waxes eloquent about Duncan's defensive genius, then compares him to . . . Patrick Ewing?

Manu Ginobili is Eddie Jones? Good grief. The next time Eddie Jones makes a daring half-court pass will be the first.

Tony Parker is BJ Armstrong? Please. They're not even good at the same things. BJ was a spot-up shooter. Tony is a slasher.
Nikos is right. The comparisons are just about stats (numbers), and nothing about the style of game they played. They're pretty well meaningless for the kind of discussion we're trying to have, which is about the upcoming season, and perhaps the past 3 or 4.
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Old 10-14-05, 09:37 PM
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Spurs' mascots:
1 Coyote
2 Kiwi Marks
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Old 10-14-05, 09:53 PM
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I cant believe this guy thinks Rasho went out because of his production - see Rasho got injured at the end of the season
also Beno is a better shooter than passer - while Beno is a good shooter his passing (other than finals) is his strongest point
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