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  #51  
Old 10-05-05, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justbarbour
D'Antoni will continue to hold the team back. He has a childish mentality and can't continue to grow the team.
He led his to WCF in 2-3 (I am not sure ) years????? I thought WC is tough one. We couldn't always get to WCF.
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  #52  
Old 10-05-05, 05:53 PM
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That's true but they were helped out by the Spurs losing first place with Tim out. If the suns played the nuggets they probably wouldn't have won.

They also didn't do much when the Lakers were still the Lakers.
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  #53  
Old 10-05-05, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odogg
That's true but they were helped out by the Spurs losing first place with Tim out. If the suns played the nuggets they probably wouldn't have won.

They also didn't do much when the Lakers were still the Lakers.

I don't know I agree with you on that. Denver's D, especially ratational D is not better than Spurs. They have some scoring inside with Amare and a lot of outsider jumpers. Sure their D is bad. But could Nuggets have scored better than Suns? That's the essential question. Pluse Nuggets had no outside shooters the way Spurs hurt them. Game 6 or 7. But I think Suns could have gotten past Nuggets.


What "was" the difficult match up for suns last season anyway? They certainly could beat Miami. Tough but still possibly. Anybody knows some losing record for them against some teams that looked significant last season, other than Spurs?

Last edited by manu 008; 10-05-05 at 06:07 PM.
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  #54  
Old 10-05-05, 06:12 PM
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If they did get to the finals last season, does anyone really think they would've gotten past the Pistons? They would've needed a miracle and somehow I don't think that would have come in the form of Amare.
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  #55  
Old 10-05-05, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odogg
That's true but they were helped out by the Spurs losing first place with Tim out. If the suns played the nuggets they probably wouldn't have won.

They also didn't do much when the Lakers were still the Lakers.
Thats pure garbage, the suns destroyed the nuggets in the regular season...why would it suddenly change in the playoffs?

Quote:
What "was" the difficult match up for suns last season anyway? They certainly could beat Miami. Tough but still possibly. Anybody knows some losing record for them against some teams that looked significant last season, other than Spurs?
spurs were the only team they truely struggled with...
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  #56  
Old 10-05-05, 06:23 PM
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Suns had a losing record in the regular season against only 1 team, the Spurs.

Spurs too had a losing record in the regular season against only 1 team, the $#%*^ Grizz!
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  #57  
Old 10-05-05, 06:24 PM
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The spurs, supposedly the only true opponent for the suns, struggled in close games with denver. Why would a team like the spurs who have great d and Tim struggle against the nuggets and the suns with a mediocre mvp, no d, and a supposed legend destroy the nuggets? Makes no sense.
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  #58  
Old 10-05-05, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odogg
The spurs, supposedly the only true opponent for the suns, struggled in close games with denver. Why would a team like the spurs who have great d and Tim struggle against the nuggets and the suns with a mediocre mvp, no d, and a supposed legend destroy the nuggets? Makes no sense.
ok what are you trying to say in english? couldn't understand that one
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  #59  
Old 10-05-05, 06:30 PM
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Spurs + great d and Tim Duncan = close series with nuggets with a few close games

Suns + Amare and no d = according to you a blow out series with the nuggets.
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  #60  
Old 10-05-05, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EG 20
How about Tim Duncan? I don't remember exactly, but didn't he tell Manu after the end of game 7 that he deserved the Finals MVP?
Is there a term that describes when someone assumes they know another's motive, or reasoning?

To say that people don't like Amare simply because he isn't a Spur is pretty lame to me...personally I'm a fan of Amare. But I think it IS true that you need to play D to become a legend. What legend hasn't played consistent D? All these superstars that have been mentioned like Nash and Dirk (both Mavs players) who don't play D may be superstars but not legends, IMO
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  #61  
Old 10-05-05, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odogg
Spurs + great d and Tim Duncan = close series with nuggets with a few close games

Suns + Amare and no d = according to you a blow out series with the nuggets.
Suns score alot more than spurs and the Nuggets play the same tempo as the suns. The Nuggets struggle because they can't outrun the suns. The Suns get them to play their game...and just look at the games...spurs did not destroy the nuggets in the season..suns did.

suns would of swept the nuggets like they did during the season...suns were great last year and only suns gave them fits.
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  #62  
Old 10-05-05, 06:39 PM
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WORD. He plays great but not legend material.

Apparently not great enough since they fell short. And who knows what they would've done in the finals.
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  #63  
Old 10-05-05, 10:28 PM
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Somehow, Spurs fans are getting called out for making legitimate criticisms of Amare.

No one is saying Amare isn't amazing, or one of the great players playing today. I don't think it's putting Amare down to say he has some things to improve on.

Frankly, it is stupid to criticize someone who doesn't believe Amare is a legend.

ro_50 said it best. There are very few legends in this game.
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  #64  
Old 10-05-05, 11:08 PM
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Amare is a good player, not Tim Duncan good, but maybe one day.
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  #65  
Old 10-06-05, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Somehow, Spurs fans are getting called out for making legitimate criticisms of Amare.

No one is saying Amare isn't amazing, or one of the great players playing today. I don't think it's putting Amare down to say he has some things to improve on.

Frankly, it is stupid to criticize someone who doesn't believe Amare is a legend.
exaxctly. Its too early to be just handing over legend status and assuming NBA titles will start flowing in for the Suns franchise
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  #66  
Old 10-06-05, 09:04 AM
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Amare's stupendous, but he needs to develop a go-to shot. Nash isn't going be around to set him up forever.
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  #67  
Old 10-06-05, 09:06 AM
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I didnt bother reading the previous 60 or something posts from the last pages, but I remember people thinking the same about Shawn Kemp (a player Amare has been compared too early) and we all saw what happened. Lets not put Amare in the Hall of Fame yet folks.
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  #68  
Old 10-06-05, 11:26 AM
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Amare amazing talent that he is and make no mistake he will continue to improve probably in all facets of his game, has yet to demonstrate that the he can make all those around him better. He doesn't show that he motivates his team mates. TD is not exactly vocal but he has the intangible that he makes those around him better. The spurs have won the championship with lessor talent then what the suns had.

That facet of his game may come as he matures. and yes his defense will probably get better. And he may accomplish everything that Duncan has accomplished 3 championships, 3 championship MVP's and 2 regular season MVP, all star and all defensive all star every single year he has been in the league.

What has Amare done other then out score Duncan when Duncan doesn't have to be the teams #1 scorer?

I'm not an Amare hater but before we annoint this guy the next best thing since slice bread he needs to accomplish a few things. Potential at this time is just that - potential.
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  #69  
Old 10-07-05, 01:12 AM
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Yes, lets all wait and see what this "legend in the making", according to suns fans, does in his career. I'm so sure suns fans are praising Tim Duncan the same way at this moment after he demolished their little hopes and dreams.
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  #70  
Old 10-07-05, 02:53 AM
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Amare totally rocks. We ALL seen him scoring at will against the SPURS! We are talking about scoring against the best defensive team in the league, we are talking in a half-court game. Amare played like a monster and played with posie and maturity. He will have a impact on modern basketball(injury withstanding!).
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  #71  
Old 10-07-05, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymofo
Amare totally rocks. We ALL seen him scoring at will against the SPURS! We are talking about scoring against the best defensive team in the league, we are talking in a half-court game. Amare played like a monster and played with posie and maturity. He will have a impact on modern basketball(injury withstanding!).
I'm sure the best defensive team in the league is just that because they don't concentrate on any one player. They play overall defense and if one player is scoring at will then that's good for him but we all saw what his will scoring got the suns...demolished. Nice try Amare fan.
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  #72  
Old 10-07-05, 05:26 AM
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you can't stop amare and the spurs knew this...which is why they tried to stop someone else and it worked. even if pop tried to stop amare he couldn't..no one can and if he improves his jump shot i don't think anything will stop him. amare has stated he has been working hard on the defensive end of the floor..so maybe in the next few years he will be a pretty good defender.
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  #73  
Old 10-07-05, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURSMANIA300
you can't stop amare and the spurs knew this...which is why they tried to stop someone else and it worked. even if pop tried to stop amare he couldn't..no one can and if he improves his jump shot i don't think anything will stop him. amare has stated he has been working hard on the defensive end of the floor..so maybe in the next few years he will be a pretty good defender.
Makes no difference if the players around him don't show up to play.
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  #74  
Old 10-07-05, 12:42 PM
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I think Spurs fans tend to give a lot of credit to Amare because of how well he did against the Spurs in the playoffs...and rightly so - I know I do. His size, strength, athleticism, and aggressiveness make him appear to be an unstoppable offensive force. However, the points that he needs to be able to play better defense before being considered an MVP or a legend are valid - not because there have never been legends or MVPs without great D, but because in the modern NBA defense is considered much more important, and because at his position defense is an essential. It is much more noticeable when a PF/C doesn't play great defense compared to a swingman, for example.

Another thing is basketball IQ...a BIG part of the reason that Tim is so good. Athletic abilitiy will only get you so far - especially as you start to get older and the wear and tear begins to add up. A person without high bball IQ will probably never reach 'legend' status...and I think the jury is still out on that aspect of Amare's game.

Is it possible that Amare will develop great defense and good basketball IQ? Certainly. If he does, he would certainly have all the tools needed to possibly someday become a legend, but as impressed as I have been with him, I don't think I'd annoint him a 'legend in the making' just yet.

As for his 3-point shooting work - if he can add another offensive weapon to his arsenal, great, but as incredibly dominating as he is at the attack I personally would prefer he takes all the threes he wants if I am an opposing coach or player - unless he gets to the point that he is just shooting them lights out, in which case you are really in trouble.
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  #75  
Old 10-07-05, 04:55 PM
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I wouldn't be tossing around legend status just yet.

Yes Amare is a hell of an athlete, and yes I hope he stays the course and continues to expand his game, but there is far more to becoming a legend than just starting off well.

Amare needs to improve his defense and his rebounding. Single digit rebounding for a guy with his size and athleticism is just inexcusable.

Keep in mind that the more defenders see him, the more they will get used to his game, therefore he needs to stay ahead of the curve by expanding upon his game every year.

Being a "legend" in a given sport means playing at a very high level for your entire career.

The playgrounds are littered with "future GOAT legends" that either failed all together or had a few good years and then fell off the face of the earth into obscurity due to injury, lack of desire, drugs, or misfortune.


Amare is a physical beast, but he is only one serious injury from jumping no higher or being no quicker than the opponents he faces on any given night. Players who rely so much on their physical prowess to give them the edge over the competition are always prone to losing their game due to injury.

Amare needs to add more to his game skill wise. Become more fundemental like TD. Players like TD that rely on more skill than physical means generally have more productive years late in their careers than those that rely too much on their physical talents.

Look at Jerome Kersey as an example of a guy that totally changed his game as he got up in age and his physical side started to decline. Remember Kersey as the high flying quick Trail Blazer, then remember him as the Spurs player who added more range to his game and relied more on fundementals to be effective.

As a basketball fan I hope Amare does well and contines to improve. but there are many obstacles out there and therefore, one should not take for granted the early success that they have, because it isn't a given to continue.

Case in point:

Look no further than the most physically gifted athlete I have ever seen...Bo Jackson. The guy was unlike anything I have ever seen on the football field in my 36 years of existence. Incredible power, speed, quickness, balance, vision, hands....the guy had it ALL...then came the hip injury that ended it all.

I often wonder what could have been when I think of Bo Jackson. As much of a Cowboy and Emmit Smith fan as I was and still am, Bo Jackson made Emmit pale in comparison in the physical aspect of the game...but who has the record now?...not Bo, but rather Emmit....why? because he was fortunate enough to have a long and relatively healthy career.

Only time and fortune will determine if Amare will become a legend. He seems to have a decent head on his shoulders (except for doing pushups after freethrows) so thats a plus.

I can't help but remember a great quote I once heard from Parcells when asked about a player that had great potential. Parcells said "Potential means you haven't done it yet...no more, no less...unfulfilled expectations".

Ryan Leaf, Rick Meir, Tod Marinovich, Penny Hardaway, and Chris Washburn all had the potential to become "great" at one time.

Last edited by callo1; 10-07-05 at 05:11 PM.
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  #76  
Old 10-07-05, 05:21 PM
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I think the question here is being lost:
Is Amare a legend IN THE MAKING?
Not, is Amare already one of the all-time greats?

The question has to be yes. At one point, Shawn Kemp was a legend in the making. He never fulfilled his potential, but he was still one of the beast in the game when he was playing. But he will not ever be considered an all-time great.
Amare unquestionably is on his way to becoming an all-time great. But there are so many things that could go wrong. But I don't understand why anyone would want to intentionally take away benifit of the doubt.
Now if Amare played for the Spurs, we'd be seeing different feedback.
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  #77  
Old 10-07-05, 08:57 PM
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Yes different feed back but everyone would still agree that he is too young and not mature enough to be considered the greatest at his position or even mvp.
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  #78  
Old 10-08-05, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnac The Magnificent
I think the question here is being lost:
Is Amare a legend IN THE MAKING?
Not, is Amare already one of the all-time greats?

The question has to be yes. At one point, Shawn Kemp was a legend in the making. He never fulfilled his potential, but he was still one of the beast in the game when he was playing. But he will not ever be considered an all-time great.
Amare unquestionably is on his way to becoming an all-time great. But there are so many things that could go wrong. But I don't understand why anyone would want to intentionally take away benifit of the doubt.
Now if Amare played for the Spurs, we'd be seeing different feedback.
Yes, but on a topic like this, it's completely fair to discuss the areas where Amare could improve to attain that legendary status.

I don't know how you can equate legitimate constructive criticism with typical Spurs homerism. Sure, there have been a few little digs but for the most part the posters have been singing Amare's praises.

But if you're looking for homerism all the time, I guess I'm not surprised that you're going to find it...
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  #79  
Old 10-08-05, 11:36 PM
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Ok, now Amare supposedly needs surgery. So I hope all of you suns fans shut up and except the fact that the suns are done.
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  #80  
Old 10-09-05, 04:47 AM
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how can a team be done before the season even starts? use your brain..amare's injury won't keep him out too long anyway. he may miss some games but not the season
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