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Old 04-02-04, 10:50 AM
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chad ford is righ about rc

The Raptors finally fired Glen Grunwald. What GM's are out there who you think can really go out there and get the big man and point guard to make the Raptors a legit team

Chad Ford: I've heard rumblings that the two guys they like are the Spurs R.C. Buford and the Pistons John Hammond. I doubt Buford leaves San Antonio. He just took over GM duties from Gregg Popovitch and is in a great situation. Hammond turned down the Blazers head gig last year and is widely considered the best candidate among the assistant GMs in the league. He has a relationship with Kevin O'Neill and he's been tutored by the best in the business, Joe Dumars.

espn chat wrap.
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Old 04-02-04, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks
The Raptors finally fired Glen Grunwald. What GM's are out there who you think can really go out there and get the big man and point guard to make the Raptors a legit team

Chad Ford: I've heard rumblings that the two guys they like are the Spurs R.C. Buford and the Pistons John Hammond. I doubt Buford leaves San Antonio. He just took over GM duties from Gregg Popovitch and is in a great situation. Hammond turned down the Blazers head gig last year and is widely considered the best candidate among the assistant GMs in the league. He has a relationship with Kevin O'Neill and he's been tutored by the best in the business, Joe Dumars.
espn chat wrap.
I think Jerry West would have something to say about that remark.

Dumars hasn't won anything as an Exec. He lucked into Larry Brown, he took Ben Wallace as a throw in after losing Grant Hill and that he totally lucked into that #2 pick, which became Darko Millicic.

Last I checked, it's guys like West, Popovich,Buford,Mitch Kupchack,and Jerry Krause that have won NBA Titles lately.

Not Joe Dumars.
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Old 04-02-04, 11:10 AM
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True but Joe Dumars just started pretty much he hasn't been GM as long as the others have plus Krause is not going to be remembered for all the championships he won but that he destroyed the team afterwards when he could have keep it going
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Old 04-02-04, 11:16 AM
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Well, I guess you go for the best to start out with but Toronto
is not going to lure RC or any other currently-successful NBA GM.
Good Gm's like RC come from doing lots of homework and developing
solid relationships. Toronto needs to go back to square one and
develope an organization...not go out and try to buy one.
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Old 04-02-04, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate From Ohio
True but Joe Dumars just started pretty much he hasn't been GM as long as the others have plus Krause is not going to be remembered for all the championships he won but that he destroyed the team afterwards when he could have keep it going
I agree that Krause will be remembered for his insistence on breaking up the Bulls, his "organizations win championships,not players" comment or whatever he said, and his Jabba the Hutt appearance.

But Krause was a fine GM. While it was Rod Thorn that drafted Jordan, Krause built 6 championship teams around him.

Krause traded the popular Oakley for the steady veteran center Bill Cartwright.

Krause hired Doug Collins, who turned this team around from an average team to a playoff team that pushed the Knicks, Celtics and Pistons extremely hard.

Krause was able to steal John Paxson from San Antonio in '85(?). Paxon was never spectacular, but a steady,smart player who hit more than his share of big shots. Kind of like Kerr much later.

Krause snookered Seattle by trading Olden Polynice for a kid named Scottie Pippen. Then later in that draft, picked up a young power forward named Horace Grant.

Krause was smart enough to fire Collins because he was losing the team, and smart enough to take a chance on an NBA role player as his head coach: Phil Jackson.

Krause was also smart enough to draft BJ Armstrong, who was another steady vet with good stroke, and the ability to complement Jordan.

Krause plotted for years to bring Toni Kukoc to the Bulls. At a time when only guys like Petrovic, Radja and Divac were proven Euro-players.

Krause took a chance on Hurricane Dennis Rodman, because he felt the influence of Jackson and Jordan would be enough to focus the Worm. He was right.

Jerry Krause was many things, but he was always extremely smart. He knew that you didn't need a team full of All Stars to win in this league. He knew that to win in this league, you needed 1 or 2 All Stars, players that complemented their abilities, and a coach that will stress defense and a singular style of play.

6 NBA Championships is proof of that.
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Old 04-02-04, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
I agree that Krause will be remembered for his insistence on breaking up the Bulls, his "organizations win championships,not players" comment or whatever he said, and his Jabba the Hutt appearance.

But Krause was a fine GM. While it was Rod Thorn that drafted Jordan, Krause built 6 championship teams around him.

Krause traded the popular Oakley for the steady veteran center Bill Cartwright.

Krause hired Doug Collins, who turned this team around from an average team to a playoff team that pushed the Knicks, Celtics and Pistons extremely hard.

Krause was able to steal John Paxson from San Antonio in '85(?). Paxon was never spectacular, but a steady,smart player who hit more than his share of big shots. Kind of like Kerr much later.

Krause snookered Seattle by trading Olden Polynice for a kid named Scottie Pippen. Then later in that draft, picked up a young power forward named Horace Grant.

Krause was smart enough to fire Collins because he was losing the team, and smart enough to take a chance on an NBA role player as his head coach: Phil Jackson.

Krause was also smart enough to draft BJ Armstrong, who was another steady vet with good stroke, and the ability to complement Jordan.

Krause plotted for years to bring Toni Kukoc to the Bulls. At a time when only guys like Petrovic, Radja and Divac were proven Euro-players.

Krause took a chance on Hurricane Dennis Rodman, because he felt the influence of Jackson and Jordan would be enough to focus the Worm. He was right.

Jerry Krause was many things, but he was always extremely smart. He knew that you didn't need a team full of All Stars to win in this league. He knew that to win in this league, you needed 1 or 2 All Stars, players that complemented their abilities, and a coach that will stress defense and a singular style of play.

6 NBA Championships is proof of that.
Kudos to RichB!!

I have to say that there aren't that many posts where I can actually learn something about the NBA. I learned quite a bit from yours. Thanks.
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Old 04-02-04, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
I think Jerry West would have something to say about that remark.

Dumars hasn't won anything as an Exec. He lucked into Larry Brown, he took Ben Wallace as a throw in after losing Grant Hill and that he totally lucked into that #2 pick, which became Darko Millicic.

Last I checked, it's guys like West, Popovich,Buford,Mitch Kupchack,and Jerry Krause that have won NBA Titles lately.

Not Joe Dumars.
Actually, no, Kupchack hasn't won squat. That was Jerry West's work. He retired after their last championship. It's no concidence that Lakers are struggling to build young talent while Grizzlies are thriving with their talent.

Dumars is still one of the top guys even if his team has not won anything yet. Walsh in Indy is another one who's done pretty well except for the recent trade that brought them Pollard.

One of Kupchack's proudest achievements: Signing Devan George to the MLE.
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Last edited by Grego; 04-02-04 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 04-02-04, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grego
Actually, no, Kupchack hasn't won squat. That was Jerry West's work. He retired after their last championship. It's no concidence that Lakers are struggling to build young talent while Grizzlies are thriving with their talent.

Dumars is still one of the top guys even if his team has not won anything yet. Walsh in Indy is another one who's done pretty well except for the recent trade that brought them Pollard.

One of Kupchack's proudest achievements: Signing Devan George to the MLE.
West signed Shaq and traded for Kobe, true. But he bailed after the 2000 season. Those '01 and '02 rings went to Kupchack.

It was Kupchack that drafted guys like Medvedenko and Walton, not to mention convincing Payton and Malone to come to LA.

He's no West, but he's no slouch.
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Old 04-02-04, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks
The Raptors finally fired Glen Grunwald. What GM's are out there who you think can really go out there and get the big man and point guard to make the Raptors a legit team

Chad Ford: I've heard rumblings that the two guys they like are the Spurs R.C. Buford and the Pistons John Hammond. I doubt Buford leaves San Antonio. He just took over GM duties from Gregg Popovitch and is in a great situation. Hammond turned down the Blazers head gig last year and is widely considered the best candidate among the assistant GMs in the league. He has a relationship with Kevin O'Neill and he's been tutored by the best in the business, Joe Dumars.

espn chat wrap.
It's ok, I know we're not going to get RC Buford. Any guy who could come and fire KO is cool with me.
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Old 04-02-04, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
West signed Shaq and traded for Kobe, true. But he bailed after the 2000 season. Those '01 and '02 rings went to Kupchack.

It was Kupchack that drafted guys like Medvedenko and Walton, not to mention convincing Payton and Malone to come to LA.

He's no West, but he's no slouch.
Payton decided to come and Malone followed. I remember reading Kupchak had nothing to do with it.

Ooh yeah, he also signed Samaki Walker.

West brought in the guys that were winning the championships like Fox, Horry, Harper, Grant.

Slava wasn't key in the championship run nor was Walton. They passed up Kirilenko though.
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Old 04-02-04, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
I agree that Krause will be remembered for his insistence on breaking up the Bulls, his "organizations win championships,not players" comment or whatever he said, and his Jabba the Hutt appearance.

But Krause was a fine GM. While it was Rod Thorn that drafted Jordan, Krause built 6 championship teams around him.

Krause traded the popular Oakley for the steady veteran center Bill Cartwright.

Krause hired Doug Collins, who turned this team around from an average team to a playoff team that pushed the Knicks, Celtics and Pistons extremely hard.

Krause was able to steal John Paxson from San Antonio in '85(?). Paxon was never spectacular, but a steady,smart player who hit more than his share of big shots. Kind of like Kerr much later.

Krause snookered Seattle by trading Olden Polynice for a kid named Scottie Pippen. Then later in that draft, picked up a young power forward named Horace Grant.

Krause was smart enough to fire Collins because he was losing the team, and smart enough to take a chance on an NBA role player as his head coach: Phil Jackson.

Krause was also smart enough to draft BJ Armstrong, who was another steady vet with good stroke, and the ability to complement Jordan.

Krause plotted for years to bring Toni Kukoc to the Bulls. At a time when only guys like Petrovic, Radja and Divac were proven Euro-players.

Krause took a chance on Hurricane Dennis Rodman, because he felt the influence of Jackson and Jordan would be enough to focus the Worm. He was right.

Jerry Krause was many things, but he was always extremely smart. He knew that you didn't need a team full of All Stars to win in this league. He knew that to win in this league, you needed 1 or 2 All Stars, players that complemented their abilities, and a coach that will stress defense and a singular style of play.

6 NBA Championships is proof of that.
RichB sure knows what he's talking about.
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Old 04-02-04, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grego
Payton decided to come and Malone followed. I remember reading Kupchak had nothing to do with it.

Ooh yeah, he also signed Samaki Walker.
West brought in the guys that were winning the championships like Fox, Horry, Harper, Grant.

Slava wasn't key in the championship run nor was Walton. They passed up Kirilenko though.
So did Greg Popovich, remember? No one is perfect.
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Old 04-02-04, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB
So did Greg Popovich, remember? No one is perfect.
Yeah, but they took him right after Spurs used him and he was useless throughout the season.

Do they not scout players at all then?

Pop and RC's mistake, but then why do they follow? Spurs scouted Kandi and Alvin Gentry told him, he's got a horrible work ethic. They never got stuck with him.
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