The Enemy Speaks

[TheLogo]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...l/12380174.htm

Posted on Sun, Aug. 14, 2005
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HEAT

Pay cut was Shaq's plan to help team

Shaquille O'Neal said taking $10 million a year less than what the team was prepared to pay him was his idea.

BY BARRY JACKSON

bjackson@herald.com

Heat center Shaquille O'Neal said Saturday it was his idea to take a substantial pay cut and believes team president Pat Riley has upgraded the roster with the recent blockbuster trade.

''This year, there ain't no stopping us . . .'' O'Neal said Saturday at a Nestle Crunch event at the University of Miami's Convocation Center. ``The great Pat Riley has made us stronger. . . . It's going to be fun. I'm very excited. I can't wait to play the first game and then go home and watch the first game.''

Speaking to reporters for the first time since agreeing to his $100 million contract, O'Neal, 33, said he and the Heat initially were prepared to strike a deal that would pay him $30 million annually -- an increase from last year's $27.7 million salary.

But O'Neal, aware that would restrict the Heat's ability to add players and stay under the luxury-tax threshold, said he called the team and offered to accept $20 million annually for five years.

'My father basically told me, `Don't be greedy. You need help,' '' O'Neal said. ``I'm getting to the point in my career where I do need firepower.''

O'Neal said he already has 'had three great contracts . . . so I had to make a choice. I had to say to myself, `Max out' or 'Get better talent and win more championships.' And I want my legacy to be about championships. So I took a chance, and I saved some room for guys like Antoine Walker, Jason Williams.

`ONE FOR THE TEAM'

``I took one for the team. And that's what a team player does. I'm very honored that [owner] Micky Arison did what he did. And I appreciate it.''

O'Neal was asked if he agreed with Riley's assessment that last season's group was not a championship team. ''I would say yeah,'' O'Neal said. ``However, we still could have got it done. But it just wasn't our turn. What happened last year is only going to make us stronger.''

He called the acquisitions of Walker, Williams and James Posey ``a great move by Pat Riley.''

''We had to get some more firepower,'' O'Neal said. 'Jason Williams is going to get Dwyane [Wade] off the ball so Dwyane can spend most of his time attacking other teams' defenses. Jason Williams is one of the greatest playmakers in a while. . . . He sees everything.

HELD BACK

``Last couple of years, his coaches have been holding him back. He lives around the corner from me [in Orlando]. I told him he needs to come down and let loose and put on a great show for the people.''

O'Neal called Walker ''a great shooter'' who is ''going to spot up for that three'' and ``post up every now and then. . . . I'll make sure he gets his shots, make sure [Wade] gets his shots.''

O'Neal, who returned last week from Italy -- ''my first vacation in about 10 years'' -- addressed other issues:

• He was unhappy about being linked to the unfounded rumors that Riley would replace coach Stan Van Gundy. O'Neal said he never thought Riley wanted to coach the team.

''I wanted to stay far away from that, because I think it's unfair to both guys,'' he said. ``I think it's unfair to me to put me into that. Every time a coach wants to make a change . . . my name has been put in there unfairly.''

• On team chemistry: ``My job is to keep everybody in check.''

• On whether he would like Damon Jones and Alonzo Mourning to return: ''I do, especially Alonzo. They have some issues they have to work out . . . something I won't get involved [in].'' (Jones, a free agent, wants a higher offer. Mourning, who's under contract, hasn't informed the Heat if he wants to continue playing.)

• Asked if the recent trade will make the Heat more offense- than defense-oriented: ``We're going to be 50-50. We're probably going to have to focus on more team defense. We understand it's all about defense, but teams are going to have to adjust their defense a whole lot more than we're going to have to adjust our defense.''

• O'Neal said his opinion was not sought before the trade: ``When I was with other teams, they would use my expertise. But Pat Riley has been around a long time. . . . He knows what needs to be added.''

• O'Neal, who began last season at 330 pounds, said he's 345 now with 10 percent body fat.

[George]

is he doing a melo...and thanking himself?

[alpineballer]

Originally Posted by Hantler

that's what we like to call bullsh!t

guess he meant 10% rise of body fat per year. (instead of 10% rise of salery)

[Spurs Rulez]

Only Shaq can make a 5 year 100 Million dollar extension seem like he was taking a paycut for the team's sake. Whatever.

[Rzarector7]

O'Neal called Walker ''a great shooter'' who is ''going to spot up for that three'' and ``post up every now and then. .


Has he seen his % of makes? He is not a great shooter at all, maybe decent at best....

[steefposton]

Snaq is simpy doing everything he can to stay in the spotlight. He's nothing more than a glory hog whose insecurities growing up makes him strive to be liked by everyone. That's why he is always referring to himself as "MDE" (most dominant ever) and has a superman tatoo. Self-confidant people can simply do their work and can praise their teammates cough Duncan cough. Not to say the Spurs players are the only ones who do this, but Snaq needs a hug.

[bcl11oc]

Shaq always loves to talk out of his a$s!

Doesn't he

[Chris FOM]

Originally Posted by undertoh

billups is 28, missing from that list, marbury 28, francis 28.

Yes, Shaq took a paycut. Congratulations. It's still $20 million per year. Somehow I think he'll manage to make ends meet. Hell, he couldn't even get a contract that big anymore if his didn't predate the current CBA. Duncan's max contract pays about $15 or$20 million more than that over an extra two years.

[Alamo Girl]

Originally Posted by JamesR

Duh.

Its STILL a paycut. Thus Shaq is not lying, thus all the flak he is taking for saying he took a paycut is not needed.

You're absolutely correct. Two of SR's public enemies Shaq and KG had all taken pay cuts trying to improve their team.

[Trdi]

I think we need to look at this paycut from different perspective, too. Let's say my current contract is 2y/60M. I'm getting old and my injuries are not getting any better. At the end of the current contract I might get a 15M/season contract maximum, if I miss half of the last season. Nobody will trust a guy, who will be in bad shape and injured 90% of the season. I would DEFINETLY accept 5y/120M at the moment. The numbers are made up, but I hope you get the point. Shaq has enough money right now. So he doesn't need these 10M right now. But in long run I think he will actually get MORE money with this contract. Take a look at Malone - he played for a sandwich in his last season.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Shaq is a very good player, but he is not a winner. Most of the teams he's played for (other than the 3peat in LA) lost, badly, in the playoffs. The threepeat was all about Phil Jackson, and Kobe, not about Shaq. Miami will NOT win this year, in fact I doubt they'll even get to the finals. Walker is poison and kills whatever team decides to give him minutes.

[canyoufeelit]

Originally Posted by YoMamaIsCallin

Shaq is a very good player, but he is not a winner. Most of the teams he's played for (other than the 3peat in LA) lost, badly, in the playoffs. The threepeat was all about Phil Jackson, and Kobe, not about Shaq. Miami will NOT win this year, in fact I doubt they'll even get to the finals. Walker is poison and kills whatever team decides to give him minutes.

3 championships and a comparable career winning % to Tim Duncan, but he's not a winner? Get outta here.

[losman]

A good paycut would have been maybe 5 years at 50 million, its not like he needs the money. Oh well he is getting old and hauling that fat rear will catch up with him.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Originally Posted by canyoufeelit

3 championships and a comparable career winning % to Tim Duncan, but he's not a winner? Get outta here.

"EFF" Career winning percentage. Who cares about the regular season. If the regular season mattered, Phoenix and Dallas would have championships. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PLAYOFFS. Shaq's teams, before Phil J. and Kobe showed up, were SWEPT yes SWEPT out of the playoffs EVERY TIME. He is a LOSER.

[Spurs3:16]

Originally Posted by YoMamaIsCallin

Shaq is a very good player, but he is not a winner. Most of the teams he's played for (other than the 3peat in LA) lost, badly, in the playoffs. The threepeat was all about Phil Jackson, and Kobe, not about Shaq. Miami will NOT win this year, in fact I doubt they'll even get to the finals. Walker is poison and kills whatever team decides to give him minutes.

All about Kobe? Yeah, he really proved that this past season. Look, I hate Shaq as much as the next guy, but you know you're kidding yourself if you really think that Shaq rode Kobe's and Phil's coattails for those three championships. As a matter of fact, you'd have more credibility if you stated the contrary. He proved that this past season.

[GUILLEDOC]

Snaq ever do the same. He talks to talk to inflates his ego
At least something is sure, he increases his weight but doubtfully this be in his brain

[SoupIsGood]

Originally Posted by YoMamaIsCallin

"EFF" Career winning percentage. Who cares about the regular season. If the regular season mattered, Phoenix and Dallas would have championships. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PLAYOFFS. Shaq's teams, before Phil J. and Kobe showed up, were SWEPT yes SWEPT out of the playoffs EVERY TIME. He is a LOSER.

Hmmmm

[canyoufeelit]

Also, Shaq was not swept out of the playoffs in 1997. A technicality yes, but the hole you're digging yourself with this ridiculous argument into keeps getting bigger.

[Not-so-Smart]

Spurs3:16, you couldn't be more wrong. Shaq made all of those Laker championships possible. Just watch Kobe and Phil try to win it all this year. They might not even make the playoffs. Shaq is the key, because there's no one that's not afraid of him.


Second, it bothers me at how many people feel "offended" by Shaq's words.
He's a freaking comedian! Can't anyone here take a joke? He's always complimenting himself. Great, he usually only does it as a joke. He has talked smack before (like to Yao and Felton Spencer) but he backs it up, but he's usually just trying to entertain us.
Shaq took a big paycut to help his team sign players. People can actually roll their eyes at that? Are you kidding me? WHen was the last time you saw another player do that? David Robinson? Sort of.

Originally Posted by losman

A good paycut would have been maybe 5 years at 50 million, its not like he needs the money. Oh well he is getting old and hauling that fat rear will catch up with him.

I bet you'd trade your rear end to get his life.

[highplainsspur]

Originally Posted by Hantler

that's what we like to call bullsh!t

Shaq weighed 330 about as much as Tayshaun Prince weighed 330.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Originally Posted by JamesR

*vomit*

So stupid....Will people around here EVER learn that Shaq is a great player? One of the 50 greatest? Argubuly (sp?) Top 10 ever? The constant dissing is freakin STUPID. .

There is a difference between a great regular season player and a playoff winner. For example, recently, Dallas and Phoenix have been great regular season teams, but have folded up like a cheap suit in the playoffs.

Good coaches have figured out how to neutralize Shaq in the playoffs. He can be dealt with.

In the LA win streak, it was Kobe and the role players who took over at winning time (4th quarter).

[FamousJames]

Guys...the Heat are going to be difficult to beat without homecourt advantage for any WC Champ...as long as they are healthy and Shaq is playing...their going to be difficult. Of course, our front office ain't to bad either...keep Devin somehow; for youth to run with some of their fresher legs...Must Deal Rasho....need money! I hope it's Spurs Heat with us having homecourt...it could be GROUNDBREAKING exposure for our team and city; especially when we win.

[Spurd_On]

Facts:
Shaq took a pay cut.
Shaq didn't have to. He wasn't even asked to by the Heat.
Probabilities:
Shaq wants to win.
Miami is a better team.
Predictions:
Miami's off-season moves, Shaq's off-season moves, and the subjective comments
in this thread have me thinking that the hate void left by the demise of the Lakers
will soon be filled. This thread reads like old Laker threads.

[FamousJames]

Well then...SpuredOn has made a good point......it is like a Laker thread....therefore......Muck Fiami!!!

[tigerdan]

I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, Miami -- a straight shot to the babymaker.

[Not-so-Smart]

Originally Posted by tigerdan

I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, Miami -- a straight shot to the babymaker.

Oh yeah? Jazz flute is for little sissy boys!

[Spurd_On]

Now you're talking.

As soon as ESPN jumps on the heat bandwagon the deal is sealed.

[FamousJames]

Death to the Heat of Miami......not any of the hot models from South Beach!

[hitmanyr2k]

Originally Posted by YoMamaIsCallin

"EFF" Career winning percentage. Who cares about the regular season. If the regular season mattered, Phoenix and Dallas would have championships. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PLAYOFFS. Shaq's teams, before Phil J. and Kobe showed up, were SWEPT yes SWEPT out of the playoffs EVERY TIME. He is a LOSER.

You're out of your mind lol. First of all (Charles Barkley mode), the Lakers were swept out of the playoffs in '99 (with Kobe as 2nd option) by the Spurs...closed down the Great Western Forum. After that Phil came in and I would give him the majority of the credit because he developed a system around Shaq that worked. Shaq dominated their entire first title run while Kobe got worse and his scoring dropped as the playoffs went on. In WCF he scored 18 a game and in the Finals he averaged a whopping 15 points on 38% shooting. Kobe became a bigger part in winning the 2nd and 3rd title but Shaq was the main reason they got that first one. He's no loser.

[DULESfreestyler]

Shaq is not very funny and even his dad called him greedy... as usual, there's a lot of self-praise by him here and in this case, he's trying to sound serious.. how about waiting for your peers to comment?

[Trdi]

I saw this article while browsing around. For all Shaq bashers.

It appears that Shaq's 2001 rap album "Shaquille O'Neal Presents His Superfriends, Vol. 1" didn't sell enough copies, as the Big Loquacious went off this week about the size of his already bloated contract, complaining that his $26 million salary is not sufficient for his expertise on the hardcourt. Add that to his shenanigans during a preseason game in Hawaii when, after blocking a shot by Mike Dunleavy of Golden State, he sauntered back down the court shouting "NOW you gonna pay me?" in the general direction of owner Jerry Buss. There's nothing like beating up on an inexperienced bottom feeder who weighs half as much as you do to improve your bargaining position! Apparently coming to camp so fat and out of shape that you'd have to butter up his hips just to get him through the door is Shaq's gold standard for what deserves a raise.

[coopers pale]

I dunno whether the Heat did or didn't ask him to take a pay cut, but if they didn't they're AWFUL contract negotiators. He may or may not be MDE (in my opinion he isn't, but hey, whatever) but he's 33 and has been carrying a lot of weight for a lot of years, and increasingly often has been playing at less than 100% fitness.

I dunno about the rest of you, and I agree JamesR that he's been a great player over the years, but as an ageing, slowing, less mobile and increasingly injury prone "athlete" - a pay cut should have been a given. So forgive me for not giving shaq the group hug he's clearly seeking through this self obsessive "I'm such a team player" diatribe.

He should have got a pay cut - he did get a pay cut - big deal. Oh, and the Heat will regret handing him $20m a year over the last 2 or 3 years of this deal - bank on it.

[GUILLEDOC]

Originally Posted by JamesR

*vomit*

So stupid....Will people around here EVER learn that Shaq is a great player? One of the 50 greatest? Argubuly (sp?) Top 10 ever? The constant dissing is freakin STUPID.

NOTE-The word "stupid" in this post was not directed at a person, but at ideas.

Oh, thanks jamesR, now I take this like a sort of compliment

[ennui30]

Originally Posted by JamesR

*vomit*

So stupid....Will people around here EVER learn that Shaq is a great player? One of the 50 greatest? Argubuly (sp?) Top 10 ever? The constant dissing is freakin STUPID.

NOTE-The word "stupid" in this post was not directed at a person, but at ideas.

You make it sound like a fact. But wouldn't you agree that most adjectives are subjective? Including "great". In my opinion, he is good, but not worth the praise he is getting.

Originally Posted by Carnac The Magnificent

Spurs3:16, you couldn't be more wrong. Shaq made all of those Laker championships possible. Just watch Kobe and Phil try to win it all this year. They might not even make the playoffs. Shaq is the key, because there's no one that's not afraid of him.


Second, it bothers me at how many people feel "offended" by Shaq's words.
He's a freaking comedian! Can't anyone here take a joke? He's always complimenting himself. Great, he usually only does it as a joke. He has talked smack before (like to Yao and Felton Spencer) but he backs it up, but he's usually just trying to entertain us.

It's also worth noting that there is a bit of truth in everything.

Personally I don't think he's funny. Just like I think racist comments have no place in humour

Shaq took a big paycut to help his team sign players. People can actually roll their eyes at that? Are you kidding me? WHen was the last time you saw another player do that? David Robinson? Sort of.



I bet you'd trade your rear end to get his life.

Kevin Garnett and get paid to push? YES!

Originally Posted by JamesR

In the past 6 seasons (2000-2005), Shaq hasn't been swept from the playoffs, he's had very good playoff success.

2000-Win NBA title
2001-One of the more dominant teams ever. Swept the West in the playoffs and lost one game to the Sixers because AI went apesh!t.
2002-Another cake walk to the title
2003-Beaten in Semi Finals by an amazing Duncan at Staples
2004-Made it to Finals, lost in 5
2005-Lost in ECF Game 7.

So in the past 6 seasons, Shaq's been to 4 Finals (winning 3) a 6 game WCSF and a 7 game ECF.

Not bad. Silly to say he's not a winner and then laud praise on David Robinson in the same breath.

Originally Posted by DULESfreestyler

Shaq is not very funny and even his dad called him greedy... as usual, there's a lot of self-praise by him here and in this case, he's trying to sound serious.. how about waiting for your peers to comment?

Isn't it worth mentioning that he has played with top calibur players? A solid Hardaway, Kobe and now a promising Wade to carry him through his aging years?-

Or how about the stacked teams he's played on? Payton and Malone were older, given, but Malone's defense was tight-as-ever and Payton is still better than a lot of point guards. This year he will play with Walker and Williams, both who may be headcases, but is there any denying their skills on the court?

One last thing. Shaq couldn't get along with Penny and Kobe. The Kobe thing was one of the biggest dramas in sports. Doesn't that say something about his so called "colorful personality" or "comedic comments" ?

Of course, give him some praise. The internet safety stuff he does is admirable, along with his paying of Mikan's funeral. Deferring to Wade is the first step to maturity

[Spurs3:16]

Originally Posted by Carnac The Magnificent

Spurs3:16, you couldn't be more wrong. Shaq made all of those Laker championships possible. Just watch Kobe and Phil try to win it all this year. They might not even make the playoffs. Shaq is the key, because there's no one that's not afraid of him.

Sorry for the confusion Carnac. I guess it's kinda difficult to make a point over the internet when you don't use emoticons to show sarcasm and correct punctuation. But I'm actually agreeing with you here. What I'm saying is that Shaq proved that he was the man in LA contrary to what YoMamaIsCallin believes. He proved that this past season. And I agree with your last sentence that I've quoted here. As much as it pains me, that's the reason why many feel that Shaq is/was better than Duncan - that fear that he put into other teams. I think that's the only thing that Shaq has over Ducan, but it is a huge thing.

[BanjoKazoo]

Originally Posted by ennui30

You make it sound like a fact. But wouldn't you agree that most adjectives are subjective? Including "great". In my opinion, he is good, but not worth the praise he is getting.



It's also worth noting that there is a bit of truth in everything.

Personally I don't think he's funny. Just like I think racist comments have no place in humour



Kevin Garnett and get paid to push? YES!




Isn't it worth mentioning that he has played with top calibur players? A solid Hardaway, Kobe and now a promising Wade to carry him through his aging years?-

Or how about the stacked teams he's played on? Payton and Malone were older, given, but Malone's defense was tight-as-ever and Payton is still better than a lot of point guards. This year he will play with Walker and Williams, both who may be headcases, but is there any denying their skills on the court?

One last thing. Shaq couldn't get along with Penny and Kobe. The Kobe thing was one of the biggest dramas in sports. Doesn't that say something about his so called "colorful personality" or "comedic comments" ?

Of course, give him some praise. The internet safety stuff he does is admirable, along with his paying of Mikan's funeral. Deferring to Wade is the first step to maturity

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Some of the things Shaq has said are downright rude and improper...especially the "punka$$" david robinson comments. What he said about Yao was way out of line. There's no need for that.

[Dave McNulla]

shaq's had a lot of success... except for the keep them in line department.

[Crusian]

It's funny... last year, after Shaq got traded from LA, all the Shaq hate let up for a year. All of it was centered on Kobe. Nobody knew much about the Heat. Nobody cared because after all they were in the East, and the conventional wisdom said that all the powers in the NBA came from the West.

Now that the Heat have bolstered their lineup after making a strong run in '05, here comes the same old Shaq bashing. "He's fat... he's a loser... he's stupid... he only won because of Phil and Kobe*... he has no skills... all he does is bulldoze people... the refs let him get away with murder... blah blah blah"

There's a word that explains why all of a sudden Shaq-bashing in back in vogue around here: FEAR.

I expect to start seeing some more Dwyane Wade bashing soon. In fact, I think there was one thread already that started doing that. How does Dwyane Wade go from respected to hated here in two months? Hmm... FEAR.

Typical Spurs fans. Even three championships can't shake the inferiority complex.

*So let me get this straight. Phil Jackson is a crappy coach who only won because of Shaq and Kobe. Shaq is a loser who only won because of Phil and Kobe. And Kobe is a selfish jackass who only won because of Phil and Shaq. Wait... so how exactly did they win three championships again?

[Alamo Girl]

Originally Posted by Crusian

*So let me get this straight. Phil Jackson is a crappy coach who only won because of Shaq and Kobe. Shaq is a loser who only won because of Phil and Kobe. And Kobe is a selfish jackass who only won because of Phil and Shaq. Wait... so how exactly did they win three championships again?

Amen.

I thought I was seeing things when I read that Shaq is just good, not great.

[pjjrfan]

I know shag a great player and that the Heat are a very good team who because of injuries could very easily have gotten into the finals and given the Spurs just as tough a battle for the Title. But fans are fans, they are always going to hate on teams, and lately, there haven't been too many teams to hate on, now the fans have the Heat, let them hate. What's wrong with that/

[hitmanyr2k]

Originally Posted by Crusian

It's funny... last year, after Shaq got traded from LA, all the Shaq hate let up for a year. All of it was centered on Kobe. Nobody knew much about the Heat. Nobody cared because after all they were in the East, and the conventional wisdom said that all the powers in the NBA came from the West.

Now that the Heat have bolstered their lineup after making a strong run in '05, here comes the same old Shaq bashing. "He's fat... he's a loser... he's stupid... he only won because of Phil and Kobe*... he has no skills... all he does is bulldoze people... the refs let him get away with murder... blah blah blah"

There's a word that explains why all of a sudden Shaq-bashing in back in vogue around here: FEAR.

I expect to start seeing some more Dwyane Wade bashing soon. In fact, I think there was one thread already that started doing that. How does Dwyane Wade go from respected to hated here in two months? Hmm... FEAR.

You can't just say it's fear either. Some people simply don't like the guy because of his attitude and personality. If Shaq were anything like Tim Duncan I doubt this thread would even exist but he does tend to run his mouth whether it's in jest or not. No one really bashes Wade (if so direct me to the thread) because there's nothing to bash on. The kid is humble, keeps his mouth shut, and plays hard. If he changes into some arrogant, loud mouth that needs to draw attention to himself then you're going to see some real hating on him.

[Falcone]

What is $10 million less mean when you are already making what Shaq does? I am thinking this team will struggle, Antoine Walker is the chemistry killer.

[FirebatMIV]

Originally Posted by Crusian

It's funny... last year, after Shaq got traded from LA, all the Shaq hate let up for a year. All of it was centered on Kobe. Nobody knew much about the Heat. Nobody cared because after all they were in the East, and the conventional wisdom said that all the powers in the NBA came from the West.

Now that the Heat have bolstered their lineup after making a strong run in '05, here comes the same old Shaq bashing. "He's fat... he's a loser... he's stupid... he only won because of Phil and Kobe*... he has no skills... all he does is bulldoze people... the refs let him get away with murder... blah blah blah"

There's a word that explains why all of a sudden Shaq-bashing in back in vogue around here: FEAR.

I expect to start seeing some more Dwyane Wade bashing soon. In fact, I think there was one thread already that started doing that. How does Dwyane Wade go from respected to hated here in two months? Hmm... FEAR.

Typical Spurs fans. Even three championships can't shake the inferiority complex.

*So let me get this straight. Phil Jackson is a crappy coach who only won because of Shaq and Kobe. Shaq is a loser who only won because of Phil and Kobe. And Kobe is a selfish jackass who only won because of Phil and Shaq. Wait... so how exactly did they win three championships again?

Originally Posted by spurs99

Some of Rasho best games have been vs SHAQ AND YAO..those are no easy guys to defend....and DAMN I miss RASHO tips he gets where we keep the possession of the ball...and Rasho doesnt fumble the ball.....

You know what's even worse than the rampant homerism on this board? The slew of holier-than-thou posts that immediately follows any display of homerism.

Shaq just rubs people the wrong way because he tends to self-aggrandize. Since many people dislike displays of arrogance in their everyday lives, is it too much of an assumption to say that they also dislike (constant) displays of arrogance from Shaq and therefore dislike Shaq?

[bo spur]

Shaq is a very good player, but he is not a winner. Most of the teams he's played for (other than the 3peat in LA) lost, badly, in the playoffs. The threepeat was all about Phil Jackson, and Kobe, not about Shaq.

I call BS on that one. Kobe is not the winner, those championship had everything to do with Oneal. Case in point, Kobe leads his team to lottery, Shaq leads his NEW team to the ECF's game 7.

[TimmyDthaWay2B]

10% fat 90% hot air.

[Not-so-Smart]

Originally Posted by Spurs3:16

Sorry for the confusion Carnac.

No, it's me. Sarcasm goes right over my head a lot.

[Crusian]

Originally Posted by FirebatMIV

You know what's even worse than the rampant homerism on this board? The slew of holier-than-thou posts that immediately follows any display of homerism.

Shaq just rubs people the wrong way because he tends to self-aggrandize. Since many people dislike displays of arrogance in their everyday lives, is it too much of an assumption to say that they also dislike (constant) displays of arrogance from Shaq and therefore dislike Shaq?

If that were the case, we would see a consistent stream of anti-Shaq sentiment in response to any article about him that got posted, regardless of what his team was doing.

Instead, we got a year of "I never really hated Shaq, I just hated the Lakers" posts once he got traded to Miami.

But ever since the Heat got anointed the presumptive 2005-06 champs by the media following the flashy trade for Posey/Williams/Walker, things are back to normal and everyone hates Shaq again.

[bnwhuxley]

Originally Posted by Crusian

If that were the case, we would see a consistent stream of anti-Shaq sentiment in response to any article about him that got posted, regardless of what his team was doing.

Instead, we got a year of "I never really hated Shaq, I just hated the Lakers" posts once he got traded to Miami.

But ever since the Heat got anointed the presumptive 2005-06 champs by the media following the flashy trade for Posey/Williams/Walker, things are back to normal and everyone hates Shaq again.

You might have missed this thread
http://www.spursreport.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=40745 (Big)

[SRJ]

Considering the volume and variety of posts you get on this board, you can claim that the forum is:

1) Anti-Shaq
2) Pro-Shaq
3) Anti-Kobe
4) Pro-Kobe
5) Pro-DRob
6) Anti-DRob (yes, there was a thread about this)

...and so on and so forth.

I don't think this board has a particular bent beyond being pro-Spurs (funny, that kind of sentiment on a Spurs fan website). My feeling is that when the "objective" posters discover any opinion which falls outside the orthodoxy, it must be wrong and the person making the observation must be subjected to heaps of ridicule. Like this sh!t is life or death or something.

Don't get me wrong, I get caught up many times. But invariably I feel badly about getting all worked up and confrontational about things which really don't matter very much.