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Old 08-10-05, 01:37 AM
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Putting David in Tims shoes.

Heres a thought. What if Tim Duncan and David Robinson traded places, duncan would be drafted in '87 and David in '97. Would Duncan have as much success as Robinson, and vice versa? Tim Duncan, the best player in the world right now, would have to face up against the likes of Pat Ewing, Olajuwan, Shaq(in his early years), Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone, Alonzo Mourning, not to mention the greatest ever Micheal Jordan. While this may be up to debate, i think that duncans supporting cast right now is better than any supportng cast david had, so he would be taking a hit there. Also he wouldn't have the benefit of Popovich coaching him and creaing the great defense that the spurs are now known for. While on the other hand, Robinson would have the added benefit of being able to start his career under the guidance of Tim Duncan. Robinson was clearly a better athlete than Duncan, so the running style of play that parker and Ginobili have would maybe add to Davids game. Now I am not trying to say anything negative about Tim or Dave, In my mind they are two of the greatest players to ever play the game, and obviously Duncan has been a blessing to this team and this city, I just thought it would be interesting to hear everybodys thoughts.
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Old 08-10-05, 01:43 AM
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Interesting. I agree about DRob being a better athlete, but that is what hampered him in his older years. Larry Brown was a good coach as well. Duncan's contemporaries now are Kevin Garnett (prime), Shaquille O'Neal (prime and aging), Amare Stoudemire (early years), Karl Malone (aging), Jermaine O'Neal (prime), Chris Webber (prime and aging), Yao Ming (early years) and Dirk Nowitzki (prime). Some of those guys like Webber and Nowitzki are more like shooters than bangers like Kemp and Olajuwon were. So I think you have a point about the competition.
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Old 08-10-05, 01:58 AM
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Thats true about Larry Brown but he was only with David for his first two years, and we know unkind Brown is to rookies(ie. Darko Milicic). Not that Darko is any where near a david robinson, but good point. Pop an Brown are both great coaches, however, the advantage of having pop is the security of knowing he isn't going to leave after coming one win short of a championship.
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Old 08-10-05, 05:00 AM
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DRob was ahead of his time in this context.

If he was in his prime now he would dominate. No question.
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Old 08-10-05, 09:54 AM
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I have to agree that David would be dominating if he was in his prime now. Look at Amare, he was playing center eventhough he was more comfortable at PF. David was a center and he played defense. I don't think there is a center in the league now that could bully David like Hakeem did in 95
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Old 08-10-05, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
..., but I think they get to the Finals several times and maybe they win the 95(?) championship instead of the Rockets.

I'll disagree there especially with the Rockets comment.
Hakeem was unstoppable during that series and Bob Hill still
wouldn't have known what to do.
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Old 08-11-05, 06:49 AM
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Tim wouldn't dominate as easily as he does now because of all the great big men like Malone and Barkley in their primes, Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq, DRob, etc in their primes. The league was much better. Expansion and the era of HS guys with 0 skills hadn't diluted the NBA back then as they have now.

DRob now would be more effective than he was in his career. Looking at the Centers in today's league, he would be even better and more prolific. Things are sad when a guy like Yao Ming or Dampier is the 2nd best C in the league.

Still though, overall, Tim is clearly the better player, despite the fact that he faces a lower level of comp than DRob did. I don't think the Spurs would have won 3 titles if DRob and TD swapped, probably 1 or 2.

And if DRob, the 2nd or 3rd best Defensive C of all-time couldn't hold hakeem, no way would a slower Tim. Also, if Tim thinks Rasheed's D is tough, Hakeem's was much better.

Would that team have been able to beat the Jazz is the real question as Utah owned SA in the playoffs in the Dave Era. Given how a 40 year old Malone flustered Duncan last year, I'd say the answer is no. Those Jazz teams were pretty damn good, probably the best team ever to not win the Finals. Even the Suns teams with Barkley, KJ, Majerle, Dumas, etc were ridiculously talented. BBall was just much better in that era than it is now (as with other sports, notably football). Expansion really dilutes pro sports leagues.
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Old 08-11-05, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryan Yahood
Tim wouldn't dominate as easily as he does now because of all the great big men like Malone and Barkley in their primes, Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq, DRob, etc in their primes. The league was much better. Expansion and the era of HS guys with 0 skills hadn't diluted the NBA back then as they have now.

DRob now would be more effective than he was in his career. Looking at the Centers in today's league, he would be even better and more prolific. Things are sad when a guy like Yao Ming or Dampier is the 2nd best C in the league.

Still though, overall, Tim is clearly the better player, despite the fact that he faces a lower level of comp than DRob did. I don't think the Spurs would have won 3 titles if DRob and TD swapped, probably 1 or 2.

And if DRob, the 2nd or 3rd best Defensive C of all-time couldn't hold hakeem, no way would a slower Tim. Also, if Tim thinks Rasheed's D is tough, Hakeem's was much better.

Would that team have been able to beat the Jazz is the real question as Utah owned SA in the playoffs in the Dave Era. Given how a 40 year old Malone flustered Duncan last year, I'd say the answer is no. Those Jazz teams were pretty damn good, probably the best team ever to not win the Finals. Even the Suns teams with Barkley, KJ, Majerle, Dumas, etc were ridiculously talented. BBall was just much better in that era than it is now (as with other sports, notably football). Expansion really dilutes pro sports leagues.
As much as I like TD over Robinson I have to admit you bring up several excellent points. I believe TD was superior to Robinson because of TD's offensive skills (passing, low post moves and perimeter jumper) and proven ability to make plays when his team needed him to (save the game 5 near disaster in this year's finals). I also think that while Timmy is considerably less athletic than DRob, he is physically stronger and able to hold his ground better. But undoubtedly yes, the big men of Robinson's era were quite superior to the bigs in today's nba. And it's hard to argue that a young Robinson couldn't have won titles if swapped with Timmy.
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Old 08-11-05, 08:45 AM
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Very interesting argument. I'd say this cast would compliment a young Robinson's game tremendously. It would have been a very exciting team. It would probably be kinda similar to the Suns team now. Manu and Parker running and gunning, feeding the freakish Robinson. That would be amazing and unstoppable!! But then again, that didn't translate into a title for the Suns, yet, so who knows...
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Old 08-11-05, 03:21 PM
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Right off the bat, if you switched them.

Duncan leaves the Spurs as a free agent because they don't surround him with enough talent.
The Spurs don't win a championship, the people in San Antonio don't vote yes for a new arena, and the Spurs leave SA for another city.

Duncan is the better player, David is the better person. Remember Duncan was close to leaving the Spurs, he then signed a 3 year deal, and let them know if they don't get enough talent around him, he will explore other options.

Robinson did something that I'm not sure any other player would have done, he tore his contract up, renegotiated it, and helped keep the Spurs in San Antonio. Not even Duncan would have done that!
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Old 08-12-05, 07:51 AM
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Some of the best centers of all time came from the early 90s, and how many of them ended up in the top 50 players in the NBA? Admiral was awesome and he would kill some of these guys playing the game today.

No offense to TD, but Hakeem would've locked him down - long smart athletic, I mean he manhandled DRob in those 95 finals.
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Old 08-13-05, 09:11 AM
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I have to agree real. Saying Hakeem would have locked him down may be going a bit far, but Hakeem definitely would have given Tim a lot of trouble because of his quicks, timing, and defensive skills. I think Robinson would have given Tim fits too (if Tim had to try to score on him) because Dave generally frustrated everyone he faced, except for 95 of course. We've seen Tim slowed by an aging Karl Malone in 04 and Rasheed, so I think he's definitely been the beneficiary of weaker comp than 90's era.

In the 90's, you really had 4 of the top 10 Centers of all time playing with hakeem, shaq, drob, and ewing. Maybe the best era of Centers in league history because you also had Zo pre-injuries, Divac in his prime, and Daugherty was real good before injuries too.

In the 00's, you have one with O'Neal.

In the 90's, Malone and Barkley were in their primes and are 2 of the top 5 PF's ever. Dennis Rodman will be a HOFer. As someone mentioned, Kemp was awesome for a few years as well.

In the 00's, you have Tim, whos probably the #1 PF of all time, but Dirk and Webber are really Shooting guards masquerading as PF's. Both are soft players who wilt come playoff time. Amare's a great scorer who plays no D (but his potential is undeniable) but Tim hasn't exactly flourished against Amare. KG is overrated and has never led his team anywhere.

Not to mention a certain guy named MJ who played in the 90's, so without a doubt the league as a whole was much stronger in the 90's than today. It was much stronger in the 80's than in the 90's as well so as expansion takes place and we become more of a "sportscenter" influenced sports society, fundamentals and overall quality of the game have just declined. That's why Tim is considered as such a throwback player, because he defies the trend.

Bottomline in the 90's, you had 6 really great big men in their primes with Hakeem, Ewing, DRob, Barkley, Malone, and O'Neal.

In the 00's, you have 2 with O'Neal and Duncan. No way can you consider guys like Dirk, Webber, etc all time greats who will displace anyone in the top 50 players of all time. I do agree that the true all time greats would have excelled across eras. Tim would have been great in any era, but he def would have faced much better comp had he and DRob switched places. I'm definitely not sure Dirk and Webber and KG would have been successful in the 90's or in other eras. And I know that someone like Yao Ming would have been trashed on a nightly basis had he played in the 90s.

In the 00's, scoring 100 points gets your home fans some sort of treat, in the 90's many teams averaged over 100 ppg. We've seen entire NBA Finals series in the 00's where no one sniffed 100 pts. FG% has dropped dramatically in the 00's as fundamentals such as passing, mid range jumpers, execution on fast breaks, have deteriorated. The Spurs really don't play like a 00's team, but like a 90's or 80's team (esp Tim and Manu), which is why they dominate.

Last edited by Cryan Yahood; 08-13-05 at 09:17 AM.
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