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  #1  
Old 08-04-05, 01:36 AM
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Buck Harvey: No Scola, no loss?

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The Spurs weren't to blame. And when things went wrong with Plan A, they reacted well finding Plan B.

No Luis Scola?

The Spurs merely switched to another Argentinean, and Fabricio Oberto could turn out to be a better fit this season than even Scola would have been. Oberto's size also allows the Spurs another option; if they give away Rasho Nesterovic this summer, as reports suggest they are trying to do, Oberto can help at center.

Still, the Spurs lost something when Scola couldn't get out of his contract with a Spanish team. The Spurs needed another scorer, a young bull to come off the bench and change games, a talent who would do more than fill a role.

Scola, not Oberto, was it.

There are no guarantees Scola would have starred. Some scouts wonder if his size would translate to the NBA low block, and even Spurs execs saw some potential issues.

Scola is accustomed to scoring, for example. If he had arrived and found himself with few minutes and fewer shots, would he have reacted well? Oberto, described as a great teammate, won't be a problem.

But even NBA top-10 draft picks come with the same questions, and that is Scola's status. Still in his mid-20s, he was considered the best forward in Europe last season.

A way to measure: Orlando in June drafted another forward from the Spanish league, Fran Vazquez, with the 11th pick.

The Magic's move also measures something else. Global networking — or the lack of it. The Magic didn't do their homework on Vazquez, because he says he's not coming. "I was afraid to adapt to the American way of life," he told a Spanish newspaper, "and of not giving the level they have asked."

Orlando will retain his rights, just as the Spurs retain Scola's. But the Magic invested a lot in Vazquez without connecting with him.

The Spurs know the field better than that, which is why they keep stocking their roster with international talent. In doing so, the Spurs have created a culture that welcomes the world, and Manu Ginobili will take that a step further with Oberto.

Whereas Vazquez feared "the American way of life," Oberto knows he has his best friend waiting to walk him through it. That's why Oberto will help more than a rookie should next season.

Oberto's basketball IQ and passing ability will ease the transition, too. He's a non-shooting version of Robert Horry, a smart man who knows how to win. At times next season, when Oberto is setting hard picks and catching the ball with soft hands, he will be better than Nazr Mohammed.

Then there's the Nesterovic factor. A source outside the Southwest Division confirmed Wednesday that the Spurs offered Nesterovic to Dallas for Tariq Abdul-Wahad, and the Mavericks turned it down.

Why would the Spurs want Abdul-Wahad, an injury-plagued swingman who has played only 14 games over the past three seasons? To dump a large portion of Nesterovic's contract.


With Oberto aboard, the move would be less painful. But if this is about Peter Holt saving money, then the move could be costly in other ways. Nesterovic plays Shaquille O'Neal and Yao Ming well, and both Miami and Houston could line up against the Spurs in the playoffs next spring.

Scola wouldn't have helped at center, and he isn't known as a ferocious rebounder. Besides, Oberto started for the Argentina national team, not Scola.

But starting status is often a nod to seniority, and Argentina also had great depth. When Scola did enter Olympic games last summer, he averaged over 17 points.

That would have been his role for the Spurs, too, and Ginobili had a similar part in 2003. After being stolen in the second round and groomed in Europe — just as Scola was — Ginobili provided power off the bench.

The Spurs have struggled to find the same since, the reason Ginobili twice has returned to the bench. The Spurs can still solve this by signing someone else this summer, and reports indicate they are interested in both Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel. Dallas might release Finley this month, and Portland cut Van Exel on Wednesday.

But Scola would have been younger, still developing, with long-term potential.

He was Plan A for a reason.
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  #2  
Old 08-04-05, 01:41 AM
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This is pure POPaganda.

Sour Grapes.

Call it what you want.

Do we need any further proof that Harvey and Ludden are "partners" with the Spurs and not "press" reporting on the Spurs.

They're talking about LUIS SCOLA. The same European MVP who outplayed and frustrated NBA All-Stars and Olympic big men from around the world alike.

Scola would have taken playing time away from Duncan. Bottom line.

I wish him the best elsewhere and can't wait to see him rage on the court elsewhere in the league.
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  #3  
Old 08-04-05, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Scola would have taken playing time away from Duncan. Bottom line.
No one's taking playing time from Duncan. Get real.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:00 AM
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Then there's the Nesterovic factor. A source outside the Southwest Division confirmed Wednesday that the Spurs offered Nesterovic to Dallas for Tariq Abdul-Wahad, and the Mavericks turned it down.

Why would the Spurs want Abdul-Wahad, an injury-plagued swingman who has played only 14 games over the past three seasons? To dump a large portion of Nesterovic's contract.

I am finding this one very hard to believe- that the Spurs would offer Rasho to Dallas of all teams!

His source is someone outside the SW division- not the Spurs and not Dallas- but someone with a team outside our division. Guess no one with the Spurs confirmed it.

Amente has said more than once that the Spurs are not trying to "dump" or "give away" Rasho. They could have found someone to take Rasho by now if this is all they really wanted for him! TAW has 2 years and $15.2M left on his contract. Would the Spurs really want to pay him that?

Johnny Ludden even said that the Spurs had only talked to a handful of teams about Rasho- and this is supposedly one of the few deals they came up with?? Seems hard to fathom.
Quote:
Nesterovic plays Shaquille O'Neal and Yao Ming well, and both Miami and Houston could line up against the Spurs in the playoffs next spring.
I know this will piss people off, but mark my word TODAY. If the Spurs get rid of Rasho and they play Miami in the NBA Finals, the Spurs wll lose.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:03 AM
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I'm not saying Scola should take away playing time from Duncan, but why do they have to slam the guy? Just tell the truth. Scola can't play in San Antonio because he would have crowded Duncan.

Also it sounds like Rasho has quickly gone from doll to dog in the Spurs line-up. Faster than Antonio Daniels or Malik Rose ever did.

$ad.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:06 AM
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Scola is accustomed to scoring, for example. If he had arrived and found himself with few minutes and fewer shots, would he have reacted well? Oberto, described as a great teammate, won't be a problem.
Exactly.

Just like Pop likes 'em.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:06 AM
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The article isn't an indictment of Scola. It says his role would have been to come off the bench to score. Oberto cannot do that, thats why he was Plan B and Scola was Plan A.

As for Rasho for Tariq, are you F__ kidding me?
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Old 08-04-05, 02:07 AM
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I think what the Sheriff is trying to say is that Scola's talent is undeniable and making him a bit contributor would simply stunt his growth as a player.

I don't think he's saying Scola is better than Duncan in any fasion, but that he would probably play so well - the Spurs would have to give him minutes at PF (his only NBA position). Thus, possibly taking minutes from Duncan.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:09 AM
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Okay maybe slam is too harsh a word? How about badmouth?

Quote:
There are no guarantees Scola would have starred. Some scouts wonder if his size would translate to the NBA low block, and even Spurs execs saw some potential issues.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
I think what the Sheriff is trying to say is that Scola's talent is undeniable and making him a bit contributor would simply stunt his growth as a player.

I don't think he's saying Scola is better than Duncan in any fasion, but that he would probably play so well - the Spurs would have to give him minutes at PF (his only NBA position). Thus, possibly taking minutes from Duncan.
Thanks for being the voice of reason RichB. That's exacly what I meant to say. That's why you're a sports writer and I'm not.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesR
I disagree Rich...Duncan has never had a problem with shifting to center for the 2nd unit before, why now? Horry/Nazr/Nesterovich would be losing mins, not Tim.
The problem would not have been the shift to Center. The problem would have been that Scola would have taken shots away from Duncan and according to some insiders, Duncan MUST take the majority of shots for the team during the year. It's something even Pop has said on multiple occasions.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:11 AM
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I don't like the way they are acting as if Scola would have been a problem with regards to his role on the team.

I am also questioning the timing of this article. Why say all this crap now.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user name
I don't like the way they are acting as if Scola would have been a problem with regards to his role on the team.

I am also questioning the timing of this article. Why say all this crap now.
It's for the "stupid" fans who will eat it up.

Most well-read fans have been excited about Scola's arrival since they saw him play J. O'Neal to the point of making him look silly during the Olympic trials years ago.

His arrival was more anticipated than even Ginobili's. Hell, most people didn't even know who Manu was before he got here.

Like I said.. POPaganda.

This is the same Express-News that reported Scola's buyout was overly expensive.

That lie didn't fly.

So now they're trying another approach.

In the end, they just have to make sure the Spurs' front office comes out smelling like roses.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
The problem would not have been the shift to Center. The problem would have been that Scola would have taken shots away from Duncan and according to some insiders, Duncan MUST take the majority of shots for the team during the year. It's something even Pop has said on multiple occasions.
I'll buy that.

That was ultimately the reason that Malik is gone. Not because it's all about crowding, minutes or even money....but the Spurs FO have always preferred lean/finesse(interchangeables) to go alongside Tim.....not someone that would have to push Pop's hand on rotations.

In other words, Duncan gets the most out of playing time. When he's not in there, the interchangeables are out there as little as possible.

Last edited by Spurs Crusader; 08-04-05 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
This is pure POPaganda.

Sour Grapes.

Call it what you want.

Do we need any further proof that Harvey and Ludden are "partners" with the Spurs and not "press" reporting on the Spurs.

They're talking about LUIS SCOLA. The same European MVP who outplayed and frustrated NBA All-Stars and Olympic big men from around the world alike.

Scola would have taken playing time away from Duncan. Bottom line.

I wish him the best elsewhere and can't wait to see him rage on the court elsewhere in the league.
Maybe, he would have allowed Duncan to rest more. But he wouldn't have taken anything from Timmy.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:29 AM
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I see what spurssheriff is saying now. Definitely too much ex post rationalization going on in that article.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Also it sounds like Rasho has quickly gone from doll to dog in the Spurs line-up. Faster than Antonio Daniels or Malik Rose ever did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwhuxley
As for Rasho for Tariq, are you F__ kidding me?
If this is true, then I admit it. I am clueless about this whole situation and something went on that I know nothing about. It is the ONLY way an offer of Rasho for a $15M TAW would make any sense.

Funny thing is- with all the moves made this week by Houston and Miami, I figured Rasho was more secure than he was a month ago- not less.
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  #18  
Old 08-04-05, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mateobv05
Maybe, he would have allowed Duncan to rest more. But he wouldn't have taken anything from Timmy.
Not that it would really be taking anything away from Tim, but it would make Pop force his hand. We all know how hard headed he can be.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
I think what the Sheriff is trying to say is that Scola's talent is undeniable and making him a bit contributor would simply stunt his growth as a player.

I don't think he's saying Scola is better than Duncan in any fasion, but that he would probably play so well - the Spurs would have to give him minutes at PF (his only NBA position). Thus, possibly taking minutes from Duncan.

RichB very good point but as it stands we need not worry. Scola is not around....But i really like the way you restated Sheriff's quote.. good job on clearing that up..
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  #20  
Old 08-04-05, 02:37 AM
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Take time from Tim?.....whose yanking whose chain here?

We all know the Spurs play their cards closer to the vest better than anyone. You don't know what is disniformation or real information. Are we being sry up? Is Ferry looking in from Cleveland? Is Pop causing a diversion? a false flag? We never know and I've learned too long ago since Pop became GM, that what will happen will happen soon enough. And Buck predicted the Lakers over Spurs in 2003 so he's infallible, a pawn, a pigeon or a mouthpiece.

No complaints or disrepects for SR insiders and writers but I suspect at times, they get played as well. It is half the fun seeing what Pop's going to spring.

This is RC and CIA Pop, they are masters at this stuff.

Bottom line....we need Rasho unless there's another young big banger next to Tim.
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Old 08-04-05, 02:46 AM
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It just seems to me that the entire article drives DOWN the value of both Scola and Rasho, and I don't know why they would want to do either. If Scola doesn't come soon, then they could get something really good for him (at least next summer for draft picks), and if they really wanted to get rid of Rasho, why would they tell the world he couldn't even be traded for that.

Now, on the other hand, if it is to placate the public, then they can try to lessen what were people's expectations of Scola and also show how badly they tried to trade Rasho, but no one would take him.

I just find it impossible to believe they would offer a defensive center to one of the best teams in their division for that!!

I bet I could easily find 50 players in the NBA with salaries that would be within the 25% that we could offer Rasho for that would make more sense than this. Someone who proposed this trade on here would be slammed!

And why would anyone think Dallas would want to spend that much more money for ANOTHER center with what they pay Dampier. I think the idea of the Spurs offering Rasho for TAW is preposterous, but just as preposterous is any notion that Dallas would take it.
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Last edited by user name; 08-04-05 at 02:55 AM.
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  #22  
Old 08-04-05, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWest
Take time from Tim?.....whose yanking whose chain here?

We all know the Spurs play their cards closer to the vest better than anyone. You don't know what is disniformation or real information. Are we being sry up? Is Ferry looking in from Cleveland? Is Pop causing a diversion? a false flag? We never know and I've learned too long ago since Pop became GM, that what will happen will happen soon enough. And Buck predicted the Lakers over Spurs in 2003 so he's infallible, a pawn, a pigeon or a mouthpiece.

No complaints or disrepects for SR insiders and writers but I suspect at times, they get played as well. It is half the fun seeing what Pop's going to spring.

This is RC and CIA Pop, they are masters at this stuff.

Bottom line....we need Rasho unless there's another young big banger next to Tim.
I wonder if Ferry will become trade buddys with RC? Sure would like Snow to backup TP.

If you look at the Spurs bigs each serves a specific role:

Tim - mvp
Naz - physical player gobs of rebounds
Horry - smart all around skilled player
Rasho - well.....he has the ability to CHANGE opponents shots
Oberto - the Argentinian DIVAC?

I suppose the spurs NEED All their bigmen, I hope we keep RAsho.
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  #23  
Old 08-04-05, 02:47 AM
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I always saw Scola as being a player that would eventually start at power forward while Duncan slid over to Center in the twilight of his career.

We're talking 3 or 4 years from now - not next year.

I think Duncan would (and still may) take a reduced role while other players (Ginobili, Parker, Scola?) become the focal points of the team - a few years down the stretch.

I know we've heard his entire career how much Duncan dislikes playing center, but have we ever actually heard that from him? We all realize he plays both positions equally well - and they have been virtually interchangable since Duncan joined the team.

I think with the elite center going the way of the dinosaur - it would be easier for Duncan to slide over to this position - to accomodate a talent such as Scola. Much as Robinson took a reduced role for him in 1999.

It's very possible now that we'll never know.
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  #24  
Old 08-04-05, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
This is pure POPaganda.

Sour Grapes.

Call it what you want.

Do we need any further proof that Harvey and Ludden are "partners" with the Spurs and not "press" reporting on the Spurs.

They're talking about LUIS SCOLA. The same European MVP who outplayed and frustrated NBA All-Stars and Olympic big men from around the world alike.

Scola would have taken playing time away from Duncan. Bottom line.

I wish him the best elsewhere and can't wait to see him rage on the court elsewhere in the league.
This could very well be the stupidest post of all time. Scola would have taken playing time from Duncan? Please tell me you are dripping with sarcasm and if you are please put a smiley face or something to indicate as much.
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Old 08-04-05, 03:13 AM
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I always thought that TD didn't want to play C out of respect for DRob, though he wouldn't say that publicly. C is really his best position IMO - after all, he came into the league as a pure C. But with Malik taking minutes from DRob in years past, and now with Horry playing during crunchtime, TD has been playing more and more C anyway. Half of the teams defend against him using their C's anyway.

I definitely see him listed as C in five years, playing the role of Bill Russell and late-career Wilt, i.e. concentrating on defense and rebounding, while facilitating the scoring of others.
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  #26  
Old 08-04-05, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Exactly.

Just like Pop likes 'em.
Pop's system has netted 3 championships, give a little respect to the founder of the feast.
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  #27  
Old 08-04-05, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone
This could very well be the stupidest post of all time. Scola would have taken playing time from Duncan? Please tell me you are dripping with sarcasm and if you are please put a smiley face or something to indicate as much.
I'm willing to bet BIG TIME money, that the poster you quoted has more of an insight into the Spurs FO actions than either of us EVER will.
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Old 08-04-05, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone
Pop's system has netted 3 championships, give a little respect to the founder of the feast.
I don't think that there is any disrespect there. I have all the respect in the world for Pop, but I know that he has his ways.
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  #29  
Old 08-04-05, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by user name
It just seems to me that the entire article drives DOWN the value of both Scola and Rasho, and I don't know why they would want to do either. If Scola doesn't come soon, then they could get something really good for him (at least next summer for draft picks), and if they really wanted to get rid of Rasho, why would they tell the world he couldn't even be traded for that.

Now, on the other hand, if it is to placate the public, then they can try to lessen what were people's expectations of Scola and also show how badly they tried to trade Rasho, but no one would take him.

I just find it impossible to believe they would offer a defensive center to one of the best teams in their division for that!!

I bet I could easily find 50 players in the NBA with salaries that would be within the 25% that we could offer Rasho for that would make more sense than this. Someone who proposed this trade on here would be slammed!

And why would anyone think Dallas would want to spend that much more money for ANOTHER center with what they pay Dampier. I think the idea of the Spurs offering Rasho for TAW is preposterous, but just as preposterous is any notion that Dallas would take it.
As of right now the only people thinking positive about Rasho are the Rasho fans. Everything I keep hearing is that the guy is on the block and being offered for chicken feed. Not only are they offering him for basically nothing, no one seems to want him. That should tell everyone just what value he truely has on the open market right now. Keep in mind, I know he has value on the court, but it is his 4 year contract that is being rejected not the player.

Just the same, Rasho fans need to realize that it is not Rasho the Spurs are trying to trade but rather his contract. And I think they are trying to do it to the point they might just cut him rather than keep him, right now we are close to luxury tax land what happens when we cross that line in two years.

With or without Rasho the Spurs are going to repeat as champions as long as they don't get any major injuries to key personalle. Rasho is not and will not be the difference to us winning a title.
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Old 08-04-05, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JamesR
Yes, and those ways have made the Spurs one of the most successful sports franchises of the new millinium.
.....and thank God for that.
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  #31  
Old 08-04-05, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB
I'm willing to bet BIG TIME money, that the poster you quoted has more of an insight into the Spurs FO actions than either of us EVER will.
Stupid is as stupid does.

SAS has better connections than either of us and even he ain't stupid enough to believe that the reason Scola is not a Spur is he would take anything away from Tim. There are maybe 2 or 3 guys who could take shots away from Tim in the entire NBA, Scola is not nor will he ever be one of them.

I want scola in a Spurs uniform as badly as anyone but thinking he is good enough to push Duncan is plain crazy. Fact is I also think it is a legit concern that Scola probably would not have cracked the 8 man rotation and likely would have been the 5th big man in the rotation behind Rasho, Horry. That means he would have received ton's of DNP-Coaches Decision.

I don't profess to believe that I know Scola or how he would react to playing less than 10 minutes per game but it is a possibility that he could become a dissruption to the team.

As for Rasho, this is the 3rd credible rumor of him being shopped and each one was for less and less. Where there is smoke...
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  #32  
Old 08-04-05, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by undertoh
Then there's the Nesterovic factor. A source outside the Southwest Division confirmed Wednesday that the Spurs offered Nesterovic to Dallas for Tariq Abdul-Wahad, and the Mavericks turned it down.

Why would the Spurs want Abdul-Wahad, an injury-plagued swingman who has played only 14 games over the past three seasons? To dump a large portion of Nesterovic's contract.
????
if this was true, only isah would be left to help.

but i have a question: abdul-wahad didn't play a single game for the last two seasons and only 14 in the season 02-03.
isn't there a clause that if he retires his contract no longer counts against the cap? (b/c he was injured for more than 1 1/2 years, like terrell brandon)
and there is an exception a team can use, if an injured player retires (i guess half of the salery of this player). so if the scenario was to trade rasho for tariq, then tariq retires and spurs sign a player using this exception (3.5M ?) the whole thing would make sense.
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  #33  
Old 08-04-05, 04:08 AM
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Amente is not a Rasho fan and has personal connections with the Spurs. HE has said repeatedly that Rasho isn't being shopped around the league for crap and that the Spurs are NOT in some desperate hurry to dump him for chicken feed.

But explain to me how paying TAW $600,000 more than Rasho BOTH this season and NEXT helps the Spurs financially speaking, especially as regards re-signing or extending Nazr next season or staying away from the luxury tax. Surely within the next 2 seasons, they could find a better trade for Rasho than that. But least feasible is that they would try to do this with Dallas. An Eastern conference team- yes- a sucky Western conference team- yes, but not one of the best teams in the West and in their own division. That flies in the face of all logic. Ridiculous proposals at SR make more sense than this.

As to TAW, I have heard no mention of him possibly retiring. On the contrary, I had heard rumblings that if Finley was not waived with the Amnesty Rule that he could be- or there were even talks of Dallas buying TAW out. That is why I would see the notion of Dallas trying to trade him for someone in return and them contacting the Spurs, but not the notion of the Spurs calling about trading for him. I know we want a swing-man, but him and for that much. What is worse than paying Rasho $6.7M to be a back-up center? Paying TAW $7.3M to fight Brent Barry to get onto the court.
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  #34  
Old 08-04-05, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user name
Amente is not a Rasho fan and has personal connections with the Spurs. HE has said repeatedly that Rasho isn't being shopped around the league for crap and that the Spurs are NOT in some desperate hurry to dump him for chicken feed.

But explain to me how paying TAW $600,000 more than Rasho BOTH this season and NEXT helps the Spurs financially speaking, especially as regards re-signing or extending Nazr next season or staying away from the luxury tax. Surely within the next 2 seasons, they could find a better trade for Rasho than that. But least feasible is that they would try to do this with Dallas. An Eastern conference team- yes- a sucky Western conference team- yes, but not one of the best teams in the West and in their own division. That flies in the face of all logic. Ridiculous proposals at SR make more sense than this.
From what I have read the Spurs will be in luxury land in 2008 a deal like this would keep them out. Did you think that maybe they are not afraid of facing Rasho or of him putting Dallas over the top? Maybe they figured Dallas would not flinch at taking on a big contract since they haven't in the past and would be a willing trade partner for unloading a bad contract. So far we have heard that he has been shopped to Portland, Atlanta, and Dallas, and each trade was less than the previous, like I said where there is smoke...
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  #35  
Old 08-04-05, 06:20 AM
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about Scola, a lot of crap has been said... at the end of the day, no matter how much you read, there is still room for speculation because of the messy manner in which it was all handled... i personally believe there is not one singular reason but a number that resulted in this conclusion.
First, i believe that spurssheriff has a point. Probably Scola doesn't fit the mold of the player they want playing next to Tim, a player primarily devoted to doing the dirty work... it's not that Scola doesn't do what it takes, but it's not his strongest point; it would force Tim to do more of the dirty work himself and that may not be what he himself most desires, as well as the FO.
Second it's obviously true that, though not the insane amount reported, his buyout is pretty high, and that would demand a good chunk of money given that Luis is apparently not willing to get to the NBA losing big bucks.
Then, Scola's agents are not what you would expect from a player of his caliber, delaying negotiations till the last minute and going back and forth with issues that should have been cleared months if not years ago, signing contracts with legal holes in them and stuff... Luis, i wish you read this... get new representation...
Last, most of the things reported do make me think that there is a Page Ranking campaign to reduce the FO exposure in the whole deal, given that people had high hopes for him and it all ended up in a big fiasco. That would fit the numerous contradictory reports about false buyout numbers, rationalized arguments and all sorts of things an independent reporter perhaps should think twice before writting...
i am dissapointed because i was really looking forward to seeing Luis in a Spurs uniform, since it would mean another argentine, one of my favourites, in my favourite NBA team... now i agree that his future with the Spurs is clouded, and i just hope he gets the chance to play in the NBA sometime even if elsewhere... it would really be a shame if he didn't.
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  #36  
Old 08-04-05, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Amente is not a Rasho fan and has personal connections with the Spurs. HE has said repeatedly that Rasho isn't being shopped around the league for crap and that the Spurs are NOT in some desperate hurry to dump him for chicken feed.
Rest assured, there was probably a lot more to this deal than we know now. The Spurs would not just be getting Wahad Chicken Feed here. There was a reason they wanted to do this deal and it wasn't just so they'd get Wahad for the bench. I think when we learn more, it will become clearer.

One thing is sure. The Spurs were not doing this to make a divisional foe stronger.

There is more to this story and it will come to light soon.

I give Amente credit for being one of the first people here to say that the Spurs were trying to trade Rasho to begin with. People were bashing him when he reported that and saying it was bull. How far we've come.
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  #37  
Old 08-04-05, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg06
about Scola, a lot of crap has been said... at the end of the day, no matter how much you read, there is still room for speculation because of the messy manner in which it was all handled... i personally believe there is not one singular reason but a number that resulted in this conclusion.
First, i believe that spurssheriff has a point. Probably Scola doesn't fit the mold of the player they want playing next to Tim, a player primarily devoted to doing the dirty work... it's not that Scola doesn't do what it takes, but it's not his strongest point; it would force Tim to do more of the dirty work himself and that may not be what he himself most desires, as well as the FO.
Second it's obviously true that, though not the insane amount reported, his buyout is pretty high, and that would demand a good chunk of money given that Luis is apparently not willing to get to the NBA losing big bucks.
Then, Scola's agents are not what you would expect from a player of his caliber, delaying negotiations till the last minute and going back and forth with issues that should have been cleared months if not years ago, signing contracts with legal holes in them and stuff... Luis, i wish you read this... get new representation...
Last, most of the things reported do make me think that there is a Page Ranking campaign to reduce the FO exposure in the whole deal, given that people had high hopes for him and it all ended up in a big fiasco. That would fit the numerous contradictory reports about false buyout numbers, rationalized arguments and all sorts of things an independent reporter perhaps should think twice before writting...
i am dissapointed because i was really looking forward to seeing Luis in a Spurs uniform, since it would mean another argentine, one of my favourites, in my favourite NBA team... now i agree that his future with the Spurs is clouded, and i just hope he gets the chance to play in the NBA sometime even if elsewhere... it would really be a shame if he didn't.
I said from the first minute that the 14 Mill buyout was a Page Ranking operation.
I also said that Scola was ready to play another year for TAU as he said to a lot of Spanish reporters before the Euro season ended.
About anything else is just racionalization, especulation and some nonsense.

I hope Luis could play elesewhere in the NBA, if he can't with the Spurs. He deserves it.
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  #38  
Old 08-04-05, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonnington
I said from the first minute that the 14 Mill buyout was a Page Ranking operation.
You were absolutely right!

All the Page Ranking in the world won't cover the truth. That always seems to come out no matter how hard they try to spin it.

Good call.
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  #39  
Old 08-04-05, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwhuxley
The article isn't an indictment of Scola. It says his role would have been to come off the bench to score. Oberto cannot do that, thats why he was Plan B and Scola was Plan A.
That´s clear for me. In the light of the Spurs offensive problems in some moments of the playoffs (dryness, lack of options) I thought (and always said) Scola was really a priority over Oberto for his offensive explosiveness coming off the bench when TD was resting or together with him for some moments of the game.
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  #40  
Old 08-04-05, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
The problem would not have been the shift to Center. The problem would have been that Scola would have taken shots away from Duncan and according to some insiders, Duncan MUST take the majority of shots for the team during the year. It's something even Pop has said on multiple occasions.
I tend to agree with this. If Scola had come and been as good as advertised, his offensive game would have to be nurtured, so he would have to get some touches. As for the Rasho trade, If the Spurs did initiate it, I can't believe Dallas didn't jump on it. I can't even remember the last time that guy played in any kind of game. I read the article as an explanation why not getting Scola was a setback but that the Spurs still found a way to come out on top, and personally, that's how I see it also, using the Orlando situation helped clarify how much ahead of the game the Spurs FO is compared to the rest of the league and how they look at all the angles to find ways to make the team stronger without breaking the bank.
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  #41  
Old 08-04-05, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
This is pure POPaganda.

Sour Grapes.

Call it what you want.

Do we need any further proof that Harvey and Ludden are "partners" with the Spurs and not "press" reporting on the Spurs.

They're talking about LUIS SCOLA. The same European MVP who outplayed and frustrated NBA All-Stars and Olympic big men from around the world alike.

Scola would have taken playing time away from Duncan. Bottom line.

I wish him the best elsewhere and can't wait to see him rage on the court elsewhere in the league.
according to Amente he wasnt the priority for the Spurs that some here thought

I dont buy it was because of Duncan
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  #42  
Old 08-04-05, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
according to Amente he wasnt the priority for the Spurs that some here thought
make it "Pop said he was" and we agree.
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  #43  
Old 08-04-05, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
I'm willing to bet BIG TIME money, that the poster you quoted has more of an insight into the Spurs FO actions than either of us EVER will.
yeah but some reports from like Amente dont seem to fit with Scola not here because of TIM DUNCAN. Buck Harvey may be a lot of things but he isnt a voice for Pop anyway. He's been very critical of Pop and the Spurs FO at times

hell some people consider him to be too negative at times even picking against the Spurs

Quote:
I give Amente credit for being one of the first people here to say that the Spurs were trying to trade Rasho to begin with
I dont remember Amente saying the Spurs were shopping rasho just that they would listen to offers. Amente thought between Nazr...Rasho would have a greater chance of moving but wasnt reporting they were actively trying to shop Rasho around to different teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by mg06
make it "Pop said he was" and we agree.
no lots of people here thought Scola was a "lock"

amente said over and over that wasnt the case at all.

Quote:
His arrival was more anticipated than even Ginobili's
I dunno about that. maybe to people that thought he was a "lock" to be a Spur but reports here going back several weeks said that was never ever a lock to happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Corleone
Pop's system has netted 3 championships, give a little respect to the founder of the feast.
and one of the best pro sports teams in ANY Sport

We are lucky
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  #44  
Old 08-04-05, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
no lots of people here thought Scola was a "lock"

amente said over and over that wasnt the case at all.
I meant that it's not as if people just got it out of their a$$... it came directly from Pop's mouth, how big a priority signing Scola was... so it wasn't random wishful thinking, it was well founded... even if others (who actually know better) said otherwise.
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Old 08-04-05, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
I always saw Scola as being a player that would eventually start at power forward while Duncan slid over to Center in the twilight of his career.

We're talking 3 or 4 years from now - not next year.

I think Duncan would (and still may) take a reduced role while other players (Ginobili, Parker, Scola?) become the focal points of the team - a few years down the stretch.

I know we've heard his entire career how much Duncan dislikes playing center, but have we ever actually heard that from him? We all realize he plays both positions equally well - and they have been virtually interchangable since Duncan joined the team.

I think with the elite center going the way of the dinosaur - it would be easier for Duncan to slide over to this position - to accomodate a talent such as Scola. Much as Robinson took a reduced role for him in 1999.

It's very possible now that we'll never know.
A really scary DITTO.
Though I disagreee on the scale of ¨reduced role¨ of TD.

And to those who still think ¨No problem, we are champs, no need of Scola¨...
Dudes, the guys is really good. So good, that I dont want him on another team, so good that we should try to ask again next year. And make sure Scola knows that, he said he knows the Spurs tried everything to get him, so no problem there.

Last edited by Spur_Fanatic; 08-04-05 at 08:28 AM.
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  #46  
Old 08-04-05, 10:10 AM
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Man, what happened overnight?

anyway...


Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
according to Amente he wasnt the priority for the Spurs that some here thought
I dont buy it was because of Duncan
That's right I always said it wasn't a lock dispite what the Spurs FO says publicly.
But I never said why. I remember Richb once asked if I kept saying that because of his buyout and I never answered. Now I will. No it wasn't because of his buyout but the impression I always received was that the Spurs FO wasn't as hot to bring Scola over as they publicly made it appear. I was never told as to why they weren't so hot to bring him over.

"not a lock' is my way of indicating that the player isn't a lock to be signed or be re-signed more due to the Spurs lack of interest in bringing the player in or back in. The reasons vary depeding on the player: DA, Daniels, Hedo, SJax and Devin are all examples of this. All the while publicly or through the local newspaper media they put out that they want someone back and then when it doesn't happen they make it appear as if it was the players fault because he was greedy (DA), he never contacted us back (SJax). SOme reasons are legit and valid reasons and I can understand but they never want to just come out and say it so as to not upset the fans love for certain players. No one cared for Hedo fanwise so that's why they came out and said that he wasn't a priority to re-sign. Dumping players fans like or that helped them win a title or two would go against the family image they like to project.

As for the Rasho trade with Dallas, yeah it doesn't seem to make sense but I can come up with a reason as to why that might of happened.
Might be Presti at his best.
Maybe Team C wants someone like TAW so they can buy him out, waive him, whatever, and for that type player they are willing to give the Spurs someone they really want. Spurs contact Dallas so that they can get TAW, rid themseleves of Rasho and his contract then send TAW to Team C for the player they covet. Now why isn't Team C contacting Dallas directly? Maybe they have no one Dallas would ever want or maybe Team C's FO isn't as smart as Presti. Who knows?

I've heard of stranger deals being set on the trading table between teams that never come to the public light that make me go WTF?
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  #47  
Old 08-04-05, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
I dont remember Amente saying the Spurs were shopping rasho just that they would listen to offers. Amente thought between Nazr...Rasho would have a greater chance of moving but wasnt reporting they were actively trying to shop Rasho around to different teams
It did happen. Some people got mad at him, arguments errupted and some Rasho fans even said they would never come back to the board because of it. This was during the playoffs, first round I think. Before anyone else said anything about Rasho being on the block.
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  #48  
Old 08-04-05, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Rest assured, there was probably a lot more to this deal than we know now. The Spurs would not just be getting Wahad Chicken Feed here. There was a reason they wanted to do this deal and it wasn't just so they'd get Wahad for the bench. I think when we learn more, it will become clearer.

One thing is sure. The Spurs were not doing this to make a divisional foe stronger.

There is more to this story and it will come to light soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amente
As for the Rasho trade with Dallas, yeah it doesn't seem to make sense but I can come up with a reason as to why that might of happened.
Might be Presti at his best.
Maybe Team C wants someone like TAW so they can buy him out, waive him, whatever, and for that type player they are willing to give the Spurs someone they really want. Spurs contact Dallas so that they can get TAW, rid themseleves of Rasho and his contract then send TAW to Team C for the player they covet. Now why isn't Team C contacting Dallas directly? Maybe they have no one Dallas would ever want or maybe Team C's FO isn't as smart as Presti. Who knows?

I've heard of stranger deals being set on the trading table between teams that never come to the public light that make me go WTF?
Maybe I am stuck on semantics, but Buck claims the Spurs are trying to "give Rasho away." But that is not what you have said, at all.

I am also at least glad to see that both you and spursrsheriff have trouble believing some great Rasho for TAW straight up offer was what the Spurs came up with. The chance to get someone else they really want, that I'll buy.
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  #49  
Old 08-04-05, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
I dont remember Amente saying the Spurs were shopping rasho just that they would listen to offers. Amente thought between Nazr...Rasho would have a greater chance of moving but wasnt reporting they were actively trying to shop Rasho around to different teams
I also said that the Spurs have contacted two or three teams attempting to trade Rasho. No they weren't shopping him around to every team trying to get just anything. He's their trade bait for any player they may want to trade for. This Dallas deal may be just that. They get TAW in way that will enable them to then get the player they really want.
There is always a reason as to why they do things - and in the way they do it - no matter how strange it appears.

BTW, their attempts to trade Rasho will probably intensify not that players are being signed, deals made, players offered/available and the closer they get to going over the tax threshold.
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  #50  
Old 08-04-05, 11:11 AM
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I'm just baffled by the constant overrating of Scola. I mean, yes he would be a nice player to have. But we all know success in Europe doesn't mean instant stardom in the NBA. I'm not saying he won't be a star, but we have not seen him play a lick in the NBA, with NBA rules, not international rules. And to even suggest that TD would lose playing time to Scola is just assinine. Lets say Scola becomes a contributer to the magnitude of even Ginobili, there is no way TD comes off the court. Any other player would lose minutes, but not TD. He brings way too much to the team. We saw how shaky they were without TD.
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