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skydawg 07-29-05 11:04 AM

why???
 
does everyone seem to hate beno udrih? I mean his numbers are great..but for limited minutes and a rookie year..there not bad either.

Kirby 07-29-05 11:08 AM

Who hates him?

angelbelow 07-29-05 11:12 AM

hes pretty darn good. i thought he was brent barry at the beginning of the year, very surprised i was when i found out it was a rookie. i was very impressed by him this year, and sure he choked in the playoffs, but im sure hes working on his game right now.

rlg6701 07-29-05 11:17 AM

He just needs to figure out how to beat a full-court press/half-court trap.

Beyond that, the kid makes good decisions and shoots it extremely well.

No hate here.

shelden 07-29-05 11:19 AM

I thought he did really well for a rookie, played some nice minutes at backup point, shot a good percentage in threes. I'd describe him as steady. He made some bad turnovers in the playoffs against Detroit, but I'd be willing to bet as he gets more experience he'll settle down.

BanjoKazoo 07-29-05 11:23 AM

I wouldn't go as far as to say people hated him, but I do know where you are coming from. The rookie played solid throughout the season and had his moments in the playoffs. I personally think the refs allowed the people defending him to be extra physical because rookies will never get the benefit of the doubt in calls. Anyhow, after the season there were quite a few threads asking for a better back up PG (bobby jackson, earl watson, etc.). I think Udrih has a tremendous upside, and now that he's no longer a rookie i think the refs will give him a better shot at offensive and defensive production.

RichB 07-29-05 11:23 AM

I'd like to keep him. He's shown nice instincts as a point guard and he will no doubt improve.

I think we were so impressed with his early play that we expected him to play like a vet in the playoffs. He obviously didn't.

But he was a key contributor to this team and I hope management decides to keep him. He's a diamond in the rough IMO.

In time the team can help him improve his defense, decision making and shooting to possible be on par with Parker. If he develops nicely, and the Spurs feel they cannot keep him - they can trade him for a quality peice to our puzzle.

My preference is to keep him.

maddog 07-29-05 11:28 AM

Detroit exposed some weak points- maybe a little slow footspeed wise and didn't handle a hard trapping press.

It was magnified imho to some extent because Tonys speed made Detroit alter their defense. You go from a player that causes you problems to one you just happen to be able to cause problems for...

Had some decent games prior to Detroit figuring out he couldn't handle the trap well.

Nothing I see as a fatal flaw in a rookie.

SpursErie 07-29-05 11:30 AM

I wish he'd get a new barber. Nash already has trademarked "scruffy". Beno had a nice regular season with a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio but that flipped to 1 to 2 against the Pistons who had fun trapping him. Tony was only 1 to 1 in that series as opposed to Chauncey's 5 to 1- that's three years in a row that Tony fell down when it counted. Beno ought to at least be given one more try. And keep in mind our best ball distributors aren't our points but Manu, Brent and Tim. Tony has a lot to admire in his game if you consider him to be an undersized slashing shooting guard rather than a floor general.

pjjrfan 07-29-05 11:39 AM

He needs to work on his decisions when he is double teamed, but I was very impressed with him. I just don't really think he was as prepared for the intensity of the playoffs, especially the finals, but damn turnovers or not, he has a shot and he can hit. He is just going to get better as he adapts to the NBA game. I thought his best games were against Philly when he took on Iverson and did a great job of staying in front of him and keeping him from going off, and the 4th qtr. of that OT thriller with Phoenix, in which he played the entire 4th qtr and did a hellava job.

I mean his a rookie, and there were times during the year where he showed it, and times during the playoffs where he showed it, but overall, he has a lot of potential. Plus he has a pt. guards mentality and that is something that is in his favor big time.

rlg6701 07-29-05 11:40 AM

I don't think one should read being mentioned in trades as a sign of disdain or displeasure with a player. i think the reason he gets mentioned so much in trade scenarios here is because he would likely be desired by other teams.

PGs are hard to come by and if throwing Beno into a trade that would take a bad contract off the spurs books, then that's something I'm sure the front office would consider. But i'm also pretty sure they'd prefer to keep Beno around.

DizzG 07-29-05 11:43 AM

I was impressed overall

I dont want him to go anywhere

user name 07-29-05 11:54 AM

Quote:

Some in the Spurs' organization think Beno Udrih is the best passer on the best passing team in franchise history.

Better than Manu Ginobili?

"Beno's passes," said one, "always make sense."
That's all you need to know.

jjsister 07-29-05 11:55 AM

Beno was GREAT! I just hope he doesn't pull a "Speedy Claxton" move..........? He still has a lot of learning to do and their is no better team and a group of guys to learn from!!! Rock on!!!! :rockon

ElNonoMasa 07-29-05 12:16 PM

Beno is fine. He just needs a couple more years of NBA experience.

Spurs Rulez 07-29-05 12:35 PM

In addition to the Fianls against Detroit, Beno had problems protecting the ball in the Denver series as well. I remember he single-handedly gave the Nuggets like 8 points to end the second quarter. It is laspes like these that have fans of the Spurs calling for a 3 PG with a good handle. I think there is room on the 15 man roster for another PG, but it is not a priority, just insurance in case Beno really can't handle the "on the ball" pressure. Otherwise, I thought he was a steal for the Spurs in the draft last year.

timfan 07-29-05 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skydawg
does everyone seem to hate beno udrih? I mean his numbers are great..but for limited minutes and a rookie year..there not bad either.

:rolleyes Nope. I don't hate beno. I like him and hope he stays with Spurs.

l=w 07-29-05 12:43 PM

Beno is far better than anybody thought he'd be. He's clearly starter material in this league some day, that's his potential. He needs to learn how to beat presses with quicker players, though. It was Boykins and Lindsay Hunter who hurt him in the playoffs. He's smart enough he'll learn.

Look at last year's rookie crop. Can anyone legitimately say Devin Harris is going to be a better point guard in this league than Beno Udrih?

Toki9 07-29-05 12:49 PM

I thought he held his own through most of the playoffs, with the exception coming in the middle to latter stage of the Detroit series...and if it takes the 2nd best team in the league to expose a rookie's shortcomings, then i don't think the situation's all that bad...as pure point guards go, i think he has more potential than Tony...his court awareness is better, passing ability is better, and shot is better...but Tony has natural gifts that Beno does not have...i think Beno will be an excellent option for quite a few years...

Dark Deity 07-29-05 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l=w
Beno is far better than anybody thought he'd be. He's clearly starter material in this league some day, that's his potential. He needs to learn how to beat presses with quicker players, though. It was Boykins and Lindsay Hunter who hurt him in the playoffs. He's smart enough he'll learn.

Look at last year's rookie crop. Can anyone legitimately say Devin Harris is going to be a better point guard in this league than Beno Udrih?

You got all that from watching the Spurs this year? I must've watched a different Beno Udrih. He obviously could start some day but that day is not anytime soon. For about 3 games he out did Earl Boykins before Boykins exploded in Game 4. Lindsay Hunter's defense got to him though.

And yes I can see Devin Harris being better than Beno Udrih. Devin Harris is a good player.

Falcone 07-29-05 01:06 PM

I agree with everyone here, first of all who hates him? Second, I like him and he got a wealth of experience in this years playoffs. That will hopefully pay off later.

SRJ 07-29-05 09:34 PM

Yeah, I haven't seen too much hate around here for Beno either.

I guess, if he is hated, it's for two reasons:

1) The TO's versus Detroit
2) Hate by association (Rasho's countryman)

thefutureisnow 07-29-05 10:30 PM

im a beno fan, he'll be awesome in a few years. There are disadvantages to having two young point guards though

Flipmode Master 07-29-05 10:46 PM

Beno costed the Spurs like one game IMO...its like the guy is scared when he dribbles the ball. :shrug

SoupIsGood 07-29-05 11:13 PM

I don't know what it is. I even talked to a Maccabi fan recently, and he was really harsh on the guy! Called him an stupid excuse for a basketball player, blah, blah, blah.... :yikes

SpursErie 07-29-05 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjsister
Beno was GREAT! I just hope he doesn't pull a "Speedy Claxton" move..........? He still has a lot of learning to do and their is no better team and a group of guys to learn from!!! Rock on!!!! :rockon

Don't be too harsh with Speedy. The Spurs declined to exercise an option to keep him another year during the regular season which was a mistake.

user name 07-30-05 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
I don't know what it is. I even talked to a Maccabi fan recently, and he was really harsh on the guy! Called him an stupid excuse for a basketball player, blah, blah, blah.... :yikes

There were problems with fans because Beno played ahead of an Israeli player for Maccabi- if I remember right.

The problem is people have no memories. They forget how great Beno played in Game 2 of the Finals when Tony had foul trouble and the Spurs extended the lead with Beno on the floor. All they remember are his TO's in Detroit when in truth, Manu and Brent were turning the ball over, too. He is an easy scapegoat. If the Sours did not want 2 young point guards, then they would not have drafted Beno in the first place.

mg06 07-30-05 01:03 AM

I never got the impression he is hated from hanging around this forums.
Quote:

Originally Posted by user name
There were problems with fans because Beno played ahead of an Israeli player for Maccabi- if I remember right.

The problem is people have no memories. They forget how great Beno played in Game 2 of the Finals when Tony had foul trouble and the Spurs extended the lead with Beno on the floor. All they remember are his TO's in Detroit when in truth, Manu and Brent were turning the ball over, too. He is an easy scapegoat. If the Sours did not want 2 young point guards, then they would not have drafted Beno in the first place.

I think Beno is a nice player, though i don't see much upside in him. On top of that, the position he plays demands for no mistakes, specially when your team is playing at the highest stages possible... and yes, other players mess up also, but for every time Manu burns you he saves your ass many others, which Beno can't do... couldn't it just be that he didn't perform according to expectations? won't you concede that there MAY be performance issues involved?

On another note, if you don't mind me asking, where are you from?

Corwin 07-30-05 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mg06
I never got the impression he is hated from hanging around this forums.
I think Beno is a nice player, though i don't see much upside in him. On top of that, the position he plays demands for no mistakes, specially when your team is playing at the highest stages possible... and yes, other players mess up also, but for every time Manu burns you he saves your ass many others, which Beno can't do... couldn't it just be that he didn't perform according to expectations? won't you concede that there MAY be performance issues involved?

On another note, if you don't mind me asking, where are you from?

Cant quite understand that statement. He was a ROOKIE last year. He shot the 40% from 3 point land. He is a pure shooter with a nice stroke. He will get better, much better. Even Parker struggles at times especially in the matchoffs in particular when he loses his confidence. That happened in the Detroit series. So if Parker struggled against an excellent defensive club like Detroit, is it any surprise that the Beno, the rookie, would struggle as well.

canyoufeelit 07-30-05 01:53 AM

The only time I really got pissed off at Beno was game 4, the Spurs were in that game until he came in and then the Pistons went on a ridiculous run. Lindsey Hunter and Rasheed Wallace showed that they were going to pressure him at the edge near the scorers table, so naturally he dribbles right toward their trap and throws the ball right into Rasheed's reach. :banghead

bnwhuxley 07-30-05 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesR
I hate for him to cost the Spurs a game though....

Flip--What are you talking about? He played like a *gasp* ROOKIE in the playoffs.

Well, Beno paid the price for it by losing his minutes in Games 5-7. He'll learn from it if he's tough enough inside. I like his game. He fits the motion offense perfectly, and that's the thing we should run when the subs are in. I think he's quick enough. At least not many guys are blowing past him. His pick-n-roll defense is top notch, and he's got some size.


Quote:

Tim cost us one game, almost 2 if Horry wouldn't have blown up. If you aren't going to point fingers at the franchise player, don't point them at the 15 MPG rookie PG.
Huh? Which game did Tim cost us?

mg06 07-30-05 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corwin
Cant quite understand that statement.

which one particularly. If you break it down like i'm doing now it would really help.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corwin
He was a ROOKIE last year.

upside is not only given by age.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corwin
He shot the 40% from 3 point land. He is a pure shooter with a nice stroke.

that's what i like the most from him.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corwin
He will get better, much better.

what do you base this on? which area exactly has he the potential to vastly improve? please, explain yourself better.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corwin
Even Parker struggles at times especially in the matchoffs in particular when he loses his confidence. That happened in the Detroit series. So if Parker struggled against an excellent defensive club like Detroit, is it any surprise that the Beno, the rookie, would struggle as well.

look at the following quote i made. Substitute Manu for Parker and it still applies:
Quote:

Originally Posted by mg06
and yes, other players mess up also, but for every time Manu burns you he saves your ass many others, which Beno can't do

Parker does mess up... A LOT sometimes... but he shows flashes of brilliance only a blind man can refuse to see. I still haven't met the person who likens Beno's high points to Tony's (who in fact is targeted by the rival's defense, unlike Beno), so even if they do screw up on a similar basis it does not put them even, NOT BY A LONG SHOT. That's why you shouldn't take Tony as a reference, because their low points may be similar but their high ones are not.
And yes, he is a rookie, but he is only two weeks younger than Tony and he has been playing professionally forever, so let's not pretend like he is a kid out of HS who still needs to grow and develop his entire game. His game can improve, but he is what he is.

Still i don't get what it is that you disagree with me... the fact that i don't think he has star potential? the fact that people expected more (perhaps unfairly on him, but the recent Spurs picks set the standard) than he did? i repeat: i like what he did, he seems like a nice player and contributes. He doesn't have to be a star, so what's the problem you have with me not believing he can be one?

DizzG 07-30-05 08:44 AM

Beno has alot of talent and was in his first year....he is pretty young....why wouldnt he be able to impove his NBA game?

pjjrfan 07-30-05 09:12 AM

A lot of good points and observations on Beno, but I still like his game, and for a Rookie he did very well, he even started a game and ran the team well. He is smart, effiecient, and has the potential to be a top outside shooter on a team that needs good outside shooting.

disciple 07-30-05 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skydawg
does everyone seem to hate beno udrih? I mean his numbers are great..but for limited minutes and a rookie year..there not bad either.

Dont worry. It is the old what have you done for me lately story. His last play was not cutting it against the Piston press.

Jason R 07-30-05 10:43 AM

He's a good, smart distributer with average footspeed. It hurts him a little on defense and under pressure he makes rookie mistakes. He has to work on handling pressure better as well as applying it. Again, I felt he hit the rookie wall last year and that affected his late season play.

timduncan_girl 07-30-05 08:28 PM

This was his 1st year in the NBA. Just wait until next year and see if he is good. I like Beno Udrih. He is a good basketball player.

saspurs20 08-01-05 12:50 AM

There was a stretch during the regular season when Beno did not have a single turnover over 7 games. That came in 118 mins and with 27 assists coming along. Started with 6 assists game vs Suns and (next one) 12-10 game vs Portland.
After that stretch ended the next good game was that ridiculous 128-123 OT against Phoenix. It was followed by 5 "no-TO" games.
Once it gets going for Beno it's going pretty well.
Before that 7 "no-TO" streak there were 10 games with _exactly_ 1 TO each game. Then >44% from the floor, >40% threes (btw #15 in the NBA). Stability, what else do you need from your backup PG? Good potential: he's not going to get worse.. Just use the chance whilst he's with us, he's not going to be backup PG after his current contract is expired.

I am not arguing against his Game 3, yep, because of Beno an open game was lost in few minutes. But right are those who ask to look a bit broader, it wasn't only game 3 in Beno's season performance.

Try to name a rookie in a recent history who has been rotation player and real contributor for a Champion (and runner-up?) team. Darco Milicic, Mark Madsen, Devean George won't count. As far as I can see we are pretty much stuck with Manu and Beno.

For whatever it counts unless your name is Bruce the Spurs' system is not the easiest one to fit into (ask Hedo, Brent, Robert, Rasho, Steve Smith, Danny Ferry..). For those who "survive" and adapt the second year is usually break-out: Manu, Tony, Robert all significantly improved in their 2nd season and began to "form the system" rather than "adapt to it" (of course no need to name TD: the guy is too boring to break out, he improved drastically in only one category in his 2nd year: won it all). Now expect the same from Brent and Beno?..

From the worst samples of bringing in "key role" player and this player(-s) and the system trying to adapt to each other: SJX gone, Hedo in; Admiral retired, Rasho joined; Speedy gone, ... well who were our backup PG in 04 when it mattered? That was a sad story of 2004. This year we don't have SJX (main SG), Admiral (main C), Speedy (backup PG) problems: partly because of luck (no-one is retiring or in position to look for better profile spot in other team), mainly because of smart and balanced FO strategy. So (those asking for Beno and Brent upgrades): do we want to create these problems??

DULESfreestyler 08-01-05 01:07 AM

i really like Benos' game , sure he has his flaws but the positives far outweigh the negatives.. i hope the Spurs let him grow with us for one more season atleast before making judgement.. i thought he showed a lot of promise last season (including the play-offs) as a rookie and is worth developing as our back-up PG for the future.

bujji1402 08-01-05 01:55 AM

He has had one of the best rookie PG season.. post season was different ballgame..

He will learn... and Pop would make him better.. He is one nice lad...

The 05' champ DVD.. pop's coaching feature.. Beno did pretty well in it .. ha ha :)

We have a pretty good team... and Beno would be an important part in the future..

dreadlocd 08-01-05 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpursErie
Don't be too harsh with Speedy. The Spurs declined to exercise an option to keep him another year during the regular season which was a mistake.

Thats right...also... Stephen Jax and his agent, playing their hand as dumb as can be, caused Speedy to take the offer on the table from Golden State bcuz it was not going to last long and Speedy was waiting for the Spurs who, in turn, were waiting for Jax. So Speedy did what he had to do....I felt for Speedy afterward bcuz Golden State said that he would start or get alot of minutes and then after Speedy signed....they signed Van Exel...he couldve stayed in San Antonio to get left over minutes...SJax and his agent affected Speedy's negotiations with us...I hated Jax for that...Speedy is the one who closed out the Nets for us....I LOVE YOU SPEEDY :worthy LOL

DizzG 08-01-05 06:56 AM

Quote:

Don't be too harsh with Speedy. The Spurs declined to exercise an option to keep him another year during the regular season which was a mistake
Wasnt he injured at the time? regardless as nice as Speedy was I can certainly understand the Spurs not wanting to commit to him that early when they would had to pick up the option since he was a totally injury prone player in the past. There was no way to predict his finals play at that point in the season and throw in him getting injured with SA too

user name 08-01-05 08:08 AM

Although a player has played professionally elsewhere, the NBA is different. In Europe they may only play 2 games in a week and have much more time for practice and conditioning. Here it is the inverse. There were times in the second half of the season that the Spurs would play 5 games in 8 days- have a couple of days- and then play 5 more in 8 days with all that travel and eating on the road. It is quite an adjustment for any player's body. When the schedule is like that there is little time for working on things and mostly just games, but if you don't play but 10 minutes a game, you don't keep in the same condition you would like. Also, any new player has advantages early on because no one knows what to expect, but as the season progresses teams find out what to exploit and they can pressure or guard you better. People here just have unrealistic expectations and like an easy scapegoat. Find me a better back-up PG for less than a miliion a season who the Spurs can get and then we'll talk.

justin just 08-01-05 09:43 AM

He was good for a rookie. Let us give him time.


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