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  #1  
Old 06-30-05, 02:21 PM
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LMAO!!!! Fill In on JIM ROME show..........

......asked an NBA analyst if more teams were gonna try to RUN like the Phoenix Suns did this year since it was so successful. That crap worked in the regular season, but was in the playoffs. I still dont understand why people dont give the Spurs and their defense any props

for the SPURS sake , i hope more teams do run like that.......we can go 4-1 thru the playoffs next year.

Last edited by AllNet; 06-30-05 at 02:23 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-30-05, 02:21 PM
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whats he doin with Jims shoe?
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  #3  
Old 06-30-05, 02:23 PM
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Um yeah, more teams should run. Look at the Spurs, they run. The difference is not in the offensive approach, the difference is in the defensive approach. We use the fast break as often as possible.

In fact one of our struggles against Detroit was that we got no fast break oppurtunities.
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  #4  
Old 06-30-05, 02:24 PM
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Yep. Running is good. Giving up layups to try and baseball-pitch the ball downcourt is bad.
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  #5  
Old 06-30-05, 02:33 PM
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Reaching the conference finals is not successful?
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  #6  
Old 06-30-05, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnac The Magnificent
Reaching the conference finals is not successful?
Yes, until you get your ass handed to ya 4-1 by a team that can slow down the run.
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  #7  
Old 06-30-05, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason R
Um yeah, more teams should run. Look at the Spurs, they run. The difference is not in the offensive approach, the difference is in the defensive approach. We use the fast break as often as possible.

In fact one of our struggles against Detroit was that we got no fast break oppurtunities.
I think where Phoenix sometimes runs into trouble is that they get a little lazy on defense in order to focus their energy on offense. Steve Nash says as much -- in postgame comments all season he said their success depends on their defense because their offense is going to be there no matter what -- sort of like the Spurs in reverse.
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  #8  
Old 06-30-05, 02:42 PM
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Phoenix not being able to defend is what killed them, not their running offense.
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  #9  
Old 06-30-05, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllNet
Yes, until you get your ass handed to ya 4-1 by a team that can slow down the run.
The Spurs didn't slow down the run -- they ran with Phoenix and beat them at their own game.

The difference was that Phoenix couldn't get stops. It's not possible to start playing championship-level defense in the clutch without having had that as part of the team's philosophy all year long.

If the Suns had a deeper bench, perhaps they could get away with exerting more energy on the defensive end of the floor. If they played with the same pace on defense as they do offense, and communicated as well on that end of the floor, they could wreak a ton of havoc. However, it takes a lot of bodies to do that for 48 minutes.
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  #10  
Old 06-30-05, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllNet
Yes, until you get your ass handed to ya 4-1 by a team that can slow down the run.
So what are you saying? The Suns didn't accomplish anything? Or they did accomplish something? Clarify yourself.
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  #11  
Old 06-30-05, 02:50 PM
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Exactly my point.....its kinda difficult to all out run and then all out D. That is why that style of Bball only goes so far. A team with decent offense and a great defense will win. All you have to concentrate on is slowing that fast pace down just a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnac The Magnificent
So what are you saying? The Suns didn't accomplish anything? Or they did accomplish something? Clarify yourself.
Noone remembers a conference champion. Sorry, but I just think its funny how ol dude thinks the SUNS philosophy of run, run, run is the way to go. Uhhhhh......Uhhhhhh, I dont think thats gonna work.
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  #12  
Old 06-30-05, 02:52 PM
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Yeah, cause every champion in NBA History plays a slow pace like the '04 Pistons and '05 Spurs. Get a clue.
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  #13  
Old 06-30-05, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllNet
Exactly my point.....its kinda difficult to all out run and then all out D. That is why that style of Bball only goes so far. A team with decent offense and a great defense will win. All you have to concentrate on is slowing that fast pace down just a bit.
Then maybe all Phoenix has to do is fine-tune their game a bit? Offense comes pretty easy to them, so maybe if they play 90% speed and score 107 ppg instead of 113, they'd win more because they'd have more in the tank for defense? That sounds like a pretty easy adjustment, so maybe they should start planning that parade in Phoenix for June 2006?

I think the Spurs beat them because of talent and matchup issues, not because of pace.
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  #14  
Old 06-30-05, 03:03 PM
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So yall are saying ol dude on Romes show is right? Teams will be more successful playing SUNS style basketball, than SPURS ball???

The Chicago Bulls played more Spurs style ball than Suns ball when they were winning titles. They didnt run and gun, as a matter of fact......the suns run and gun got beat by them back in the day.
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  #15  
Old 06-30-05, 03:05 PM
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Against the Suns, the Spurs ran the ball. In the regular season, the Spurs ran the ball.
Trends are catchy. And I think many people remember how good the Suns were in the open court.
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  #16  
Old 06-30-05, 03:09 PM
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I don't think the Spurs like a slow pace...they want easy opportunities just like eveyrone else. To say that a run and gun offense is not successful, is incorrect. Like was said earlier, it was the Suns lack of defense that hurt them, not their innability to run their offense. I mean sure the Spurs play defense good against run and gun offenses, but if the Suns bring a tougher defensive strategy (which could be the case with the addition of Thomas) against the Spurs, we might have a tougher series than some here want to believe. Little do people remember how tough a series we had against the Sonics, and the Sonics is an example of what a good offense AND good defense can do; not to mention that the Suns have a better offense and Detroit has a better defense, if either of those teams try to become more balanced, the Spurs will have their hands full.

We have weaknesses....the fact that Detroit took us to game7 proves it. I'm not saying I don't think the Spurs are the best team, they've proven otherwsie....but let's not get over confident about their success. Success is a relative term afterall.
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  #17  
Old 06-30-05, 03:09 PM
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the last time a run and gun team won the championship, it was the Lakers of Magic. There are a lot of similarities between these Lakers and the current Suns but Nash is no Magic and Kareem was a good defender.
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  #18  
Old 06-30-05, 03:10 PM
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If the Suns could learn how to make defensive stops especially critical ones, the series might have gone a little longer.
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  #19  
Old 06-30-05, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchfred
the last time a run and gun team won the championship, it was the Lakers of Magic. There are a lot of similarities between these Lakers and the current Suns but Nash is no Magic and Kareem was a good defender.
There ya have it..........so why would that become the new way to play??? Its only been successful a few times at best. I think a decent offense and a great defense is more successful..........JMHO!!!
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  #20  
Old 06-30-05, 03:17 PM
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One thing teams might get trapped into thinking is that a scheme magically will make a team better. For example, in football, once the 49ers had success with the West Coast offense, every team tried it thinking they'd have the same success. The difference is that they didn't have Joe Montana and Jerry Rice.

The Suns can run & gun because of their talent. If a crappy team tries it just to try it, they'll just have 20 turnovers and a ton of missed perimeter shots with long rebounds creating transition opportunities for the other team.
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  #21  
Old 06-30-05, 03:23 PM
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The Spurs are balanced. They run the break as well as move the ball very well in the halfcourt set. Then they lock down on D. The Suns ran the fastbreak better than any team in the league but couldn't play defense to save their life, which is why the Spurs outplayed them.

I don't expect more teams to run like the Suns. While it worked it was just too much of a defensive liability. I expect more teams to run like the Spurs, Mavs, Nuggets and Warriors. Those teams push the tempo but actually can play some D.
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  #22  
Old 06-30-05, 03:28 PM
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But the truth is an uptempo style doesn't hurt. The best way to win in any sport in general is to be balanced. A balanced attack of good offense and good defense. Gutting it out with all defense or running it down the other team's throat all game is not gonna work.
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  #23  
Old 06-30-05, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason R
If the Suns could learn how to make defensive stops especially critical ones, the series might have gone a little longer.
They also need to improve on their half-court offensive and defensive set.
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  #24  
Old 06-30-05, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllNet
So yall are saying ol dude on Romes show is right? Teams will be more successful playing SUNS style basketball, than SPURS ball???

The Chicago Bulls played more Spurs style ball than Suns ball when they were winning titles. They didnt run and gun, as a matter of fact......the suns run and gun got beat by them back in the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchfred
the last time a run and gun team won the championship, it was the Lakers of Magic. There are a lot of similarities between these Lakers and the current Suns but Nash is no Magic and Kareem was a good defender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllNet
There ya have it..........so why would that become the new way to play??? Its only been successful a few times at best. I think a decent offense and a great defense is more successful..........JMHO!!!
Only 2 NBA Champions in history played a slower pace than the '05 Spurs and won it all - the '04 Pistons and the '99 Spurs. (check out the "Pace Factor" stat on http://basketball-reference.com/playoffs/ - each champ's individual page)
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  #25  
Old 06-30-05, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Deity
The Spurs are balanced. They run the break as well as move the ball very well in the halfcourt set. Then they lock down on D. The Suns ran the fastbreak better than any team in the league but couldn't play defense to save their life, which is why the Spurs outplayed them.

I don't expect more teams to run like the Suns. While it worked it was just too much of a defensive liability. I expect more teams to run like the Spurs, Mavs, Nuggets and Warriors. Those teams push the tempo but actually can play some D.

......................X2

This is exactly the way I feel.
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  #26  
Old 06-30-05, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerklotz
They also need to improve on their half-court offensive and defensive set.
Their halfcourt offense is pretty damn good. I mean if anybody's figured out how to stop the Nash/Amare pick and roll yet, there might be a job available for you
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  #27  
Old 06-30-05, 03:42 PM
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The Spurs didnt stop them, but they made them pump their brakes..............

Last edited by AllNet; 06-30-05 at 04:41 PM.
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  #28  
Old 06-30-05, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canyoufeelit
Their halfcourt offense is pretty damn good. I mean if anybody's figured out how to stop the Nash/Amare pick and roll yet, there might be a job available for you
Exactly the reason I didn't list it as a weakness. When you have a point guard like Nash that PnR works wonders. However, it would be nice to see the Suns employ plays that involved more of their team.
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  #29  
Old 06-30-05, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason R
If the Suns could learn how to make defensive stops especially critical ones, the series might have gone a little longer.
The scary thing is that I think they will.

The Suns were a very young and inexperienced team, without much of a bench to speak of, that managed to win 62 games.

Don't sell them short. They will only get better in the coming years and they will pick up their defense, too.

I expect that the Spurs - Suns rivalry will become the primary match up in the NBA for the rest of this decade.
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  #30  
Old 06-30-05, 04:42 PM
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I also think they will get better, but I also dont expect the entire league to mimic their style of play..........
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  #31  
Old 06-30-05, 05:03 PM
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the style of play is only one factor in the success of a team.
to win NBA championships, you still need to be able to play defense. That doesn't necessarily mean holding teams to under 80 pts. It means, like mentioned earlier, the ability to put big stops on the opposing team and to minimize cheap easy points.
Sure the Suns could learn to do that. But to just give them the nod for the next decade is pretty silly. How good (and how durable) is Nash going to be the next few years? Will he still be the engine for that team as he gets deeper into his 30s? That team is going to be Amare's team. Probably starting next year. But will he end up like KG if Nash doesn't hold together? He's definitely getting better. He'll be an unstoppable beast. But will he bring that to the defensive end enough to make a difference in the Spurs matchup? And how much can San Antonio improve? Gonna be some good basketball in the next few years...
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  #32  
Old 06-30-05, 05:09 PM
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people talk about how spurs are soft (clearly they arent) but in my opinion, the phoenix suns were the softest team in the playoffs by far. we had our way with them.
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  #33  
Old 06-30-05, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
The scary thing is that I think they will
I dunno. DAntoni isnt really a defensive coach and has admitted he didnt even push defense that much this year. Will he change the system to concentrate more on making defensive stops?

how does that fit into his admitted "no foul" policy?
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  #34  
Old 06-30-05, 06:49 PM
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The reason Detroit took us to 7 games is because the officiating made the matchup more equal than it should've been. We walked all over them in the first two games because those were basketball games.

Then we went to Detroit, where the refs allowed the Pistons to play rugby, and we lost games #3 and #4.

What was so impressive to me about this Spurs team is that they were forced to play not only in a different manner, but essentially a different sport altogether, in order to beat Detroit. And they did.

And anyone who still says the Spurs play boring basketball simply didn't watch the playoffs. The Spurs scored more than Phoenix in that series - something like 108 points per game if I remember correctly - so it wasn't us who slowed it down to grind-it-out games in the 70s against Detroit - it was the Pistons.

Any fool will tell that the only way for less talented teams to beat better teams is to rough them up.

It's exactly what LA tried to do to us in 2004, and the only reason it worked was because Fisher's shot was allowed. Otherwise, the Spurs adjusted to the rough play allowed by the refs, and had Game 5 won on Duncan's heroic shot. If the Spurs win that game, they are up 3-2 and go on to win the series - and in my opinion, to beat Detroit for the title in 2004.

It is the Spurs varsatility and adaptability which has enabled them to win two of the last three titles - and truthfully they should've had a three-peat.
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  #35  
Old 06-30-05, 08:24 PM
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Running will increase IMHO, its the attention to defense that has gone down now. Plenty of teams got up and down the court, but only a few did it by actually trying to play D, and with good shot selection. The Wizards pretty much jacked up shots and hoped they fell.
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