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  #1  
Old 04-26-05, 02:04 PM
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The Golden Ankle

There have been a lot of posts in a lot of threads about Tim's ankle. What the crap does 80% mean and how do you quantify that?

Recall that Kobe had a grade 3 sprain during the season and returnd in about the time Duncan did.

I think all of this has a lot less to do with the ankle than it does with conditioning. Seems to me that in the heat and pressure of a playoff game with the adrenaline pumping you start to forget about the ankle and become consumed with the game.

Duncan had 18 and 8 going into the last quarter before hitting the wall. He will have more for the team tomm. night.

In a week no-one will remember Sunday's game
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  #2  
Old 04-26-05, 02:08 PM
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Absolutley, this late in the season I don't think anyone is 100% anyway, I'll take 18 and 8 on 80% anyday though. He just hit that wall due to fatigue and not playing that charged up for that length of time in a couple weeks. He is a champion and will do much better as time progresses. The lack of lift was due to fatigue not a bum ankle. Shouldn't be a problem tomorrow. Champs learn from their mistakes, losers repeat them.
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Old 04-26-05, 02:15 PM
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I agree I said the other day it wasn't the ankle that was giving him too much trouble. He looked more rusty they were a lot of shots that went in and then popped out. I think the main problem is he looked some what out of game shape during this game.
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Old 04-26-05, 02:21 PM
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It wasn't a matter of game shape.

Tim was missing those same shots - turnaround J, jump hook etc. in the First Quarter. Everytime they threw him the ball in the low block to go one-on-one, he missed. Everytime they got him moving on cuts or seals, or starting out at the high post, he scored.

It is either the ankle (or maybe right leg conditioning), or he has no rhythm on his postup moves.
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Old 04-26-05, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwhuxley
It wasn't a matter of game shape.

Tim was missing those same shots - turnaround J, jump hook etc. in the First Quarter. Everytime they threw him the ball in the low block to go one-on-one, he missed. Everytime they got him moving on cuts or seals, or starting out at the high post, he scored.

It is either the ankle (or maybe right leg conditioning), or he has no rhythm on his postup moves.
I think rhythm is part and parcel of the notion of "game shape". I also think Tim sorta ran out of steam in the 4th, along with being really pissed off by the mugging he was taking in the post. He'll figure out that he can't let that get to him tomorrow, I'm sure. He just needs another game to regain his touch.
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Old 04-26-05, 02:30 PM
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I'm not so sure. For starters, just because Kobe came back from a grade 3 sprain and was somewhat effective doesn't mean Tim can come back from a grade 2 sprain and be just as effective or moreso in the same amount of time.

2nd, I agree that once the adrenaline starts pumping you tend to forget about the ankle. However, if you've ever had a nasty sprain you know that you don't forget about the ankle because the body and your brain wants to make sure you don't sprain it again. Remember, the tissue around the ankle is probably still tender and he just can't jump like he used to.

I expect Tim to play his heart in the following games and play better overall but the "Golden Ankle" you refer to still has some strengthening to do.
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  #7  
Old 04-26-05, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesatx4
There have been a lot of posts in a lot of threads about Tim's ankle. What the crap does 80% mean and how do you quantify that?

Recall that Kobe had a grade 3 sprain during the season and returnd in about the time Duncan did.

I think all of this has a lot less to do with the ankle than it does with conditioning. Seems to me that in the heat and pressure of a playoff game with the adrenaline pumping you start to forget about the ankle and become consumed with the game.

Duncan had 18 and 8 going into the last quarter before hitting the wall. He will have more for the team tomm. night.

In a week no-one will remember Sunday's game
Have you ever played on a tender ankle?
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Old 04-26-05, 02:37 PM
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I'll say it again...I think Tim had more problems with game shape and running out of gas in the 4th than anything with his ankle

no one is 100% at this time of year so Duncan being 80% isnt so horrible where he doesnt have the ablity to be effective enough IMO

That and still getting his game Rhythm down with his moves and shots

he certainly didnt look bad in the first half

I dont buy his ankle gave out or was the problem in the 4th quarter that some people have claimed

Tim HIMSELF admitted he got tired and that was an issue

he also said his ankle felt fine

but what does he know about his own body?
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  #9  
Old 04-26-05, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG

Tim HIMSELF admitted he got tired and that was an issue

he also said his ankle felt fine

but what does he know about his own body?

Do you really expect him to say that his ankle is the reason for the lack of elevation when jumping? He would never admit to it.
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  #10  
Old 04-26-05, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Real
Have you ever played on a tender ankle?
In the first round of the NBA playoffs no I haven't. Playing pick up games sure. Was it a grade 1,2 or 3 don't know. Was I 70, 80 or 90%, again I don't know. The Spurs are not going to jeopardize the future of Duncan or the franchise. If he can play he will. If he plays the pain in the ankle will come after the game not during. If Denver believes Duncan struggled because of the ankle I think that is our advantage because I don't believe that to be the case.
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  #11  
Old 04-26-05, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Our sources tell us that he's playing at 70% with that ankle right now with some lingering pain. He's got very little explosiveness and he's not jumping very high. That is definitely going to continue to be a factor.

Still. latest odds.. Spurs by 9 on Wednesday.

What he ^^^ said.

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  #12  
Old 04-26-05, 03:25 PM
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Tim never had much elevation to begin with. He needs a healty ankle to be able to establish position down the post and to be able to use he's body strength when players get physical with him. If you ever play with a bad ankle you realize how painful it is to push of it, while being bang down the post.
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  #13  
Old 04-26-05, 03:40 PM
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Duncan had enough elevation and power to throw down several Dunks on Sunday including one where he drove right down the middle of the lane and slammed it

for not having much explosiveness...it didnt keep him from that

he's obviously not 100% and wont be

but if he had some more wind under him in that 4th quarter...I dont think he misses that many shots

He could have easily put up 25-30 points in that game but is shots were just not falling

he had 18 with having a bad game

Duncan can be effective enough if others do their part
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  #14  
Old 04-26-05, 05:40 PM
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The conditioning will come gradually. I think read somewhere here that Craig Ehlo was in the exact situation as Tim and didn't get his wind back until the end of the 2nd round.

It'll take time.
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  #15  
Old 04-26-05, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDS4
The conditioning will come gradually. I think read somewhere here that Craig Ehlo was in the exact situation as Tim and didn't get his wind back until the end of the 2nd round.

It'll take time.
Was that before or after MJ nailed the shot in his face making Ehlo collapse in a pathetic heap of sadness on his home court.
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  #16  
Old 04-26-05, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesbond01
Was that before or after MJ nailed the shot in his face making Ehlo collapse in a pathetic heap of sadness on his home court.



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  #17  
Old 04-26-05, 06:14 PM
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Trust us. Duncan's ankle is a lot worse than what is being said publicly.
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  #18  
Old 04-26-05, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
The conditioning will come gradually. I think read somewhere here that Craig Ehlo was in the exact situation as Tim and didn't get his wind back until the end of the 2nd round.

It'll take time.
Timmy's team will have to buy that time for him.
Survive long enough for him to make a difference in latter rounds.
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  #19  
Old 04-26-05, 06:26 PM
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well if he is as bad as some people describe it here and even considering the fact that he was playing better in the few games at the end of the regular season than he did last Sunday, if he plays the same for the rest of the series, the Spurs will go home early.
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  #20  
Old 04-26-05, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Trust us. Duncan's ankle is a lot worse than what is being said publicly.
huh? hadnt it been reported Duncan was 70-80% on his ankle by the media?

you mentioned 70% earlier....so seems about right

I dont think Duncan ankle wise looked that bad on Sun. He def looked tired in the 4th more than anything to me. he looked out of rhythm

Im not sure though how he can throw down several Dunks in the gae if he cant get off the ground very well. He's never had that much elevation even when perfectly healthy

I would bet heavily that Duncan has a MUCH better game on Wed
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  #21  
Old 04-26-05, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Trust us. Duncan's ankle is a lot worse than what is being said publicly.
Do you believe that Tim's ankle is at least better than Rasho's at this point- and if so, then what does that say about the state of Rasho's ankle?
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  #22  
Old 04-26-05, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotefan
Do you believe that Tim's ankle is at least better than Rasho's at this point- and if so, then what does that say about the state of Rasho's ankle?
yep, my optimism is just going down the drain pretty quicky today.
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  #23  
Old 04-26-05, 08:30 PM
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Let me put it this way. Tim's ankle took a beating the other day. The training staff admitedly rushed him back and they know he should have been out recovering a lot longer than he was. He's been limping around when out of sight ot the cameras and he is hurting.

70% is the number we're hearing. That's 30% less effective than normal. That's pain.

You can't compare Rasho's injury to Tim's. It's a different grade.
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  #24  
Old 04-26-05, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
70% is the number we're hearing
which is about what Tim said he was when he came back to begin with

70-80%

which still makes him better than most players in the league. his "horrible" game on Sunday consisted of 18 points, 11 boards, and 4 Assts

if he can put up those numbers in the playoffs and do some of that in the 4th quarter.....SA will be fine as long as Parker plays better and Manu keeps up what he is doing

its not doomsday
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  #25  
Old 04-26-05, 08:35 PM
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so do you know if he is going to play tomorrow or if he is too hurt to play?
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  #26  
Old 04-26-05, 08:39 PM
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of course he is gonna play tomorrow

70% isnt worse than what we thought to begin with

he's not even listed as questionable.
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  #27  
Old 04-26-05, 08:39 PM
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Tim is a competitor.. He will play. But it doesn't mean he's not hurting worse than before or that he will be as effective.

Even if they make it past Denver.. What next?

The ankle needs time to heal. No way around that.

Remember Manu's ankle injury last year.. How long did it wobble before they finally just sat him and let his ankle heal?

There are a lot of worried people behind the scenes in San Antonio.
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  #28  
Old 04-26-05, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Tim is a competitor.. He will play. But it doesn't mean he's not hurting worse than before or that he will be as effective.

Even if they make it past Denver.. What next?

The ankle needs time to heal. No way around that.

Remember Manu's ankle injury last year.. How long did it wobble before they finally just sat him and let his ankle heal?

There are a lot of worried people behind the scenes in San Antonio.
Well we have to beat the Nuggets in the next 4 games and hope that the series between Seattle and Sacramento will last up to game 7. So far the Spurs are lucky that there is a lot of time between the games. Hopefully, Rasho and Devin will come back soon and help the team.

Last edited by frenchfred; 04-26-05 at 08:48 PM.
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  #29  
Old 04-26-05, 08:46 PM
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I feel pretty safe in saying Duncan will have a better game tomorrow than Sun and will be effective

That how Duncan is...and he was mad after the game on Sun

Quote:
Even if they make it past Denver.. What next?
They play a team that prob isnt as good as Denver

We knew all along Duncan wouldnt be 100% till the summer. Thats nothing new

I would take Duncan at 70-80% over most any other player in the league

You just have to see how it plays out

no reason to freak about it at this point. Not much has changed

Duncan isnt 100%....we all KNEW he wouldnt be

no one else is either
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  #30  
Old 04-26-05, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzG
They play a team that prob isnt as good as Denver

We knew all along Duncan wouldnt be 100% till the summer. Thats nothing new

I would take Duncan at 70-80% over most any other player in the league

You just have to see how it plays out

no reason to freak about it at this point. Not much has changed

Duncan isnt 100%....we all KNEW he wouldnt be

no one else is either
on the other hand, if they have to play Seattle, we all know that Seattle will go hard at Tim with all their crazy players that lead the league in fouls.
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  #31  
Old 04-26-05, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Let me put it this way. Tim's ankle took a beating the other day. The training staff admitedly rushed him back and they know he should have been out recovering a lot longer than he was. He's been limping around when out of sight ot the cameras and he is hurting.

70% is the number we're hearing. That's 30% less effective than normal. That's pain.

You can't compare Rasho's injury to Tim's. It's a different grade.
Rasho's initial injury was classified Grade 2, but no official word ever came out about the re-injury of it. Given that Rasho apparently will miss more time than with the first injury and it is the playoffs after all, led me to wonder if it might also be a Grade 2. Either way, it can still be compared with regards to how effective Rasho's ankle is at this point and whether he is in more or less pain than Tim. I ask because I can't help but wonder- if Tim's ankle is as bad as you say and he is playing, then what are we left to think about Rasho's ankle when Pop clearly does not want to play him tomorrow. And please don't say it's because Tim is competitive and Rasho is not- because Rasho obviously would like to play and Sunday was the first playoff game he has ever missed due to injury.
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  #32  
Old 04-27-05, 08:48 AM
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Popovich, who avoided comments about any adjustments that will be made, said Duncan's ankle suffered "no setbacks" from Sunday.

Duncan "was sore, obviously, the next day, but he didn't go backward," Popovich said. "He's still on the mend."

Duncan is not the only injured player who has given the Spurs reason for concern. Popovich said center Rasho Nesterovic, who did not play in Game 1 because of a sprained left ankle, and guard Devon Brown, who did not play because of a back injury, are doubtful to play tonight.
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  #33  
Old 04-27-05, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurssheriff
Tim is a competitor.. He will play. But it doesn't mean he's not hurting worse than before or that he will be as effective.

Even if they make it past Denver.. What next?

The ankle needs time to heal. No way around that.

Remember Manu's ankle injury last year.. How long did it wobble before they finally just sat him and let his ankle heal?

There are a lot of worried people behind the scenes in San Antonio.
Don't bother.

Around here we can report that so-and-so bought a brand new BLUE Corvette and others will eventually post "are you sure? I saw it the other day and it looked like a black Crossfire to me."

Posters only read and hear what they want to read and hear.
And if not they take what is reported and exaggerate the point.
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  #34  
Old 04-27-05, 09:32 AM
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Similar report:

One more day of practice didn't seem to change Spurs coach Gregg Popovich's thoughts on whether Rasho Nesterovic or Devin Brown will play tonight.

"Devin is doubtful doubtful," Popovich said. "Rasho is just doubtful."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...218ce6961.html
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  #35  
Old 04-27-05, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotefan
Rasho's initial injury was classified Grade 2, but no official word ever came out about the re-injury of it. Given that Rasho apparently will miss more time than with the first injury and it is the playoffs after all, led me to wonder if it might also be a Grade 2. Either way, it can still be compared with regards to how effective Rasho's ankle is at this point and whether he is in more or less pain than Tim. I ask because I can't help but wonder- if Tim's ankle is as bad as you say and he is playing, then what are we left to think about Rasho's ankle when Pop clearly does not want to play him tomorrow. And please don't say it's because Tim is competitive and Rasho is not- because Rasho obviously would like to play and Sunday was the first playoff game he has ever missed due to injury.
Thing with ankle sprains is that while there may different grades, no one sprain is the same as another even with they are the same grade.
Rasho's may not be worse than Duncan's but other factors may indicate that Rasho is not ready for actual game play. The Spurs cannot afford to lsoe another big man for any extened period during these playoffs so they must ensure that Rasho has had enough time to get to that playing level.
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  #36  
Old 04-27-05, 11:44 AM
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I can't remember a player coming back from a sprain too early and then re-aggravating it. He may be sore and he is less than 100% but as long as he doesn't roll it again he will be fine. As for his explosiveness, he looked pretty damn good to me during the game. He struggled in the fourth because he was tired so did Manu. Recall the 2 2OT games when it seemed every shot was going in. Sunday night no shot was falling--- just how the game goes.

Sunday, to me, looked a lot like the game 2 loss to Minnie in '99. I was more concerned after Phoenix in 03' because they stole the game on a last second shot. In 99 and Sunday the ball wasn't falling that won't happen 2 in a row.
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  #37  
Old 04-27-05, 12:01 PM
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Guys I think what we're forgetting is this: they're cliche's!!

Remember that publicists and coaches teach these professional athletes on how to deal with the media. I could go on and on but we've all heard 'em, i.e. "we just wanna play -insert team name-baskeball", "if we play how we're capable of playing"..etc. It's just a facade anyway. The only people who really know get paid by the Spurs organization. If Tim wants the media or more importantly the opponent to think he's at 80%, he'll say 70%...it's just a game.
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  #38  
Old 04-27-05, 12:02 PM
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Around here we can report that so-and-so bought a brand new BLUE Corvette and others will eventually post "are you sure? I saw it the other day and it looked like a black Crossfire to me."

Posters only read and hear what they want to read and hear.
And if not they take what is reported and exaggerate the point.>Amente


I don't agree with that hundred percent and I do belivee the reports about Tim's ankle but at the sametime its nothing really knew. We hbe hundred percent. I think the only problem about this is the reporting gets overdone here its like being told hundred times the color of the sky is blue and ave heard hundred times that his ankle is at 80 percent then 70, then 50 and now maybe 20. At this point of time one can assume he wont ever isn't ever going to change. I have come to accept that this team isn't healthy they will just have to deal with the deck cards they have now. Only thing annoys me is the constant stressing going on before and after games. There is really no reaso to stress the worst that could have happened has already happened.
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  #39  
Old 04-27-05, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFatSak17
If Tim wants the media or more importantly the opponent to think he's at 80%, he'll say 70%...it's just a game.
Tim is not telling the media that.
This is behind the scences info. not intended to the public to hear.
If they did they would use their guy for that.
Johnny Ludden.
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  #40  
Old 04-27-05, 12:06 PM
DaSlicer's Avatar
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Sorry I had to edit out my message I had to many grammar mistakes

I don't agree with that hundred percent and I do belivee the reports about Tim's ankle but at the sametime its nothing really knew. We have been told hundred times that he isn't hundred percent. I think the only problem about this is the reporting gets overdone here and its like being told hundred times the color of the sky is blue and isn't ever going to change. We have heard hundred times that his ankle is at 80 percent then 70, then 50 and now maybe 20. At this point of time one can assume he wont ever isn't ever going to change. I have come to accept that this team isn't healthy they will just have to deal with the deck cards they have now. Only thing annoys me is the constant stressing going on before and after games. There is really no reason to stress the worst that could have happened has already happened.
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  #41  
Old 04-27-05, 10:22 PM
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Great game by TD

24pts (11-15FG) 9rebs 5asts 3blks

2 more days to rest the ankle
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