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  #1  
Old 04-08-14, 08:42 PM
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Tiago Splitter-waste of money!!

This guy drives me up the wall. He has to be one of the worst signings the Spurs have made. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but not anymore. He is so uncoordinated around the basket. It seems like he has no idea how to use his big body. Hell, I'll take Bonner over him and that is pretty sad!!
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  #2  
Old 04-08-14, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bkp65 View Post
This guy drives me up the wall. He has to be one of the worst signings the Spurs have made. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but not anymore. He is so uncoordinated around the basket. It seems like he has no idea how to use his big body. Hell, I'll take Bonner over him and that is pretty sad!!
Change the record.
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  #3  
Old 04-08-14, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TimmyDthaWay2B View Post
Change the record.
The record will keep repeating itself until he is no longer on the team!
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  #4  
Old 04-08-14, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bkp65 View Post
The record will keep repeating itself until he is no longer on the team!
I've never been a fan of splitter... Agree that he definitely isn't worth his salary.
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  #5  
Old 04-08-14, 09:32 PM
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Trade him for Osik. BUT everyone looked like garbage. No way in hell are they suppose to lose to that crappy @$$ team! So that loss with a Thunder win,Manu's shin and Tony's back...it's going to make for a damn interesting last few games. Hope that 19 game win streak wasn't for nothing. On a side note...Not for one second do I believe that the Spurs aren't concerned about HCA throughout the playoffs after last year, but way to downplay the situation fellas.

Last edited by MRJONESIII; 04-08-14 at 09:51 PM.
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  #6  
Old 04-08-14, 10:01 PM
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I've been saying this since his rookie season! The guy is simply not a good basketball player, he makes for an ok backup, but not a starting center getting paid $9 million a season, that's highway robbery if you ask me. I cannot believe the Spurs who make little to no mistakes (Malik Rose's contract, trading for RJ) might have made the worst decision by giving him such a big contract. There's so many big guys in the NBA that are not used properly or have no been giving a legit shot to do anything, or just need a system where they fit in, a system that teaches them how to become a better player (sound familiar?) and it drives me crazy that they never want to go over a big guy who knows how to do more then set a screen. I wouldn't mind a shot blocker, a good rebounder, how about this crazy idea and get a big who can score in the post?

This season has been bearable at the center position due to Diaw playing much better this season.
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  #7  
Old 04-09-14, 12:46 AM
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If you don't think he's worth the salary of a starting center, then please tell me the other 30 centers in the NBA you think are better than he is. My point isn't to say that I think that he is really an all-star or that he isn't overpaid, but that centers in the NBA overall are overpaid. Last offseason, the Spurs had a choice to either pay him $9M/yr or try to fill the gap with a free agent signing, and since we don't have Captain Hindsight as the Spurs GM who could have reliably picked one of the underpaid centers to sign, I really can't complain. He fills the role of the big man we have to start when Diaw is too small and unfortunately in the NBA free agent market, those guys get paid a lot of cash.
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  #8  
Old 04-09-14, 01:45 AM
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He has his place in this system. Unfortunately, he's useless against OKC or any other team with length, which unfortunately is most of the Western Conference.
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  #9  
Old 04-09-14, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by b1gdon View Post
If you don't think he's worth the salary of a starting center, then please tell me the other 30 centers in the NBA you think are better than he is. My point isn't to say that I think that he is really an all-star or that he isn't overpaid, but that centers in the NBA overall are overpaid. Last offseason, the Spurs had a choice to either pay him $9M/yr or try to fill the gap with a free agent signing, and since we don't have Captain Hindsight as the Spurs GM who could have reliably picked one of the underpaid centers to sign, I really can't complain. He fills the role of the big man we have to start when Diaw is too small and unfortunately in the NBA free agent market, those guys get paid a lot of cash.
You name them... Cause whoever you name, they are probably better... Asik, Gibson, RobinlLopez...you? I think you may be as good... For the money, you can probably give me anyone.. .
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  #10  
Old 04-09-14, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by TimmyDthaWay2B View Post
You name them... Cause whoever you name, they are probably better... Asik, Gibson, RobinlLopez...you? I think you may be as good... For the money, you can probably give me anyone.. .
Constantly missing that so called baby hook from 3ft is ridiculous. Does he know how to extend his arms? How much did Al Jefferson get? Would of paid extra for his production.
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  #11  
Old 04-09-14, 01:14 PM
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they guy plays within the system. Overpaid? perhaps. if you see player efficiency he is top ten in efficiency for centers, with the likes of cousins(you want him?),pau gasol (soft as a tissue) deandre jordan(all he does is dunk)bogut (always hurt),Robin lopez(portland is sucking these days) he gives you good screens, attempts to play solid D and runs the floor, yeah not a offensive machine, but so is jordan, come on people, we lose one game and we start attacking someone (we are in first place) we didnt lose agaisnt the wolves because of sppliter
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  #12  
Old 04-09-14, 01:45 PM
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of course i want cousins and his

fg% 49.6
ft% 72.5
rebs 11.6
assist 2.9
stl 1.5
blcks 1.3
ppg 22.3

deandre is ok to me and gasol only because age not, and bogut because he is injury prone... omer asik just got 23 rebs against someone, joakim noah is not that expensive vs splitter salary, "Joakim Noah is signed for 5 years / $60 million with the Chicago Bulls. He is making $11.10 million in 2013-2014."
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Last edited by JuanCaca; 04-09-14 at 01:50 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-09-14, 01:54 PM
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Is he better or worse than Rasho Nesterovic? For reference, Rasho signed a 6yr 42M contract; Tiago signed a 4yr 36M contract.


I'd take Tiago in a heartbeat.
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  #14  
Old 04-09-14, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RealMadrid12 View Post
they guy plays within the system. Overpaid? perhaps. if you see player efficiency he is top ten in efficiency for centers, with the likes of cousins(you want him?),pau gasol (soft as a tissue) deandre jordan(all he does is dunk)bogut (always hurt),Robin lopez(portland is sucking these days) he gives you good screens, attempts to play solid D and runs the floor, yeah not a offensive machine, but so is jordan, come on people, we lose one game and we start attacking someone (we are in first place) we didnt lose agaisnt the wolves because of sppliter
Ragging on splitter isn't a new development.... Every guy you named, I would much rather have btw. You can throw efficiency ratings or whatever type of formula you want.. Fact is, he isn't good at anything... Setting screens maybe? We can get someone from the toros to do that... Splitter is a HORRIBLE signing.. I really don'teven think his defense is anything more than decent... I don't even think there is much of a difference between him sand Baynes.. Other than salary of course....
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  #15  
Old 04-09-14, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TimmyDthaWay2B View Post
You name them... Cause whoever you name, they are probably better... Asik, Gibson, RobinlLopez...you? I think you may be as good... For the money, you can probably give me anyone.. .
You act as if big men are chomping at the bit to come to san antonio. Do you forget that we had an opportunity to land Danny Granger or Caron Butler, but they went elsewhere?? Free agents don't come to San Antonio!!

How much greener do you need the grass to be? We have 60 wins and are 2 wins (or 2 thunder losses) away from clinching home court throughout the playoffs.
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  #16  
Old 04-09-14, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TimmyDthaWay2B View Post
Ragging on splitter isn't a new development.... Every guy you named, I would much rather have btw. You can throw efficiency ratings or whatever type of formula you want.. Fact is, he isn't good at anything... Setting screens maybe? We can get someone from the toros to do that... Splitter is a HORRIBLE signing.. I really don'teven think his defense is anything more than decent... I don't even think there is much of a difference between him sand Baynes.. Other than salary of course....
yeah find me a center who is going to take back seat to the system, not gonna happen, again, he is overpaid, but is what the market calls for, yeah get someone from toros, is why teams like sixers, utah and all the other teams who are not making the playoffs are scouting the D LEAGUE ah? if you are looking for a $9 million center to dominate like a .....Noah. perhaps howard, good luck buddy, not gonna happen. we have the best team in the NBA right now, must be a reason, did we lose game 6 last year because of splitter? no, we lost due to our hall of fame coach not having duncan inthere for a rebound and manu getting a nervous attack in game 6, TP dissapearing on game 6, I will take my chances with this team and give us the ring for the thumb
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  #17  
Old 04-09-14, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RealMadrid12 View Post
yeah find me a center who is going to take back seat to the system, not gonna happen, again, he is overpaid, but is what the market calls for, yeah get someone from toros, is why teams like sixers, utah and all the other teams who are not making the playoffs are scouting the D LEAGUE ah? if you are looking for a $9 million center to dominate like a .....Noah. perhaps howard, good luck buddy, not gonna happen. we have the best team in the NBA right now, must be a reason, did we lose game 6 last year because of splitter? no, we lost due to our hall of fame coach not having duncan inthere for a rebound and manu getting a nervous attack in game 6, TP dissapearing on game 6, I will take my chances with this team and give us the ring for the thumb
Pretty sure anyone named would take a back seat to the system, minus Howard. The dleague comment was more or less my way of saying you can find that anywhere lol. Figured you would have caught on to that. My issue IS that he is getting paid an arm and a leg, and isn't worth a finger nail. I would much rather have a Lopez at a fraction of the price than splitter....it's rare any team loses because of one player... But splitter is getting paid like an integral piece, but produces like he should be getting the vet min.... Like I said, Baynes is as good as splitter....
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  #18  
Old 04-09-14, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by exit7 View Post
You act as if big men are chomping at the bit to come to san antonio. Do you forget that we had an opportunity to land Danny Granger or Caron Butler, but they went elsewhere?? Free agents don't come to San Antonio!!

How much greener do you need the grass to be? We have 60 wins and are 2 wins (or 2 thunder losses) away from clinching home court throughout the playoffs.
No but we could definitely invest that money on someone WHO CAN PLAY!!! We can pay a guy likerRobin Lopez significantly less to do as good or likely a better job. I could care less what our regular season record is right now... II'm not a suns fan...
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  #19  
Old 04-09-14, 02:48 PM
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I'm as big a Splitter hater as they come, but if they didn't pay him he would have left, and the Spurs would have a center who is even worse. Diaw can play center in spurts, but he can't be the permanent starting center. Like others have said, free agents just don't want to come to San Antonio. So we're stuck with Splitter. Someone mentioned Rasho. Rasho had a mid range jumper, which would really hurt OKC right about now.
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  #20  
Old 04-09-14, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
I'm as big a Splitter hater as they come, but if they didn't pay him he would have left, and the Spurs would have a center who is even worse. Diaw can play center in spurts, but he can't be the permanent starting center. Like others have said, free agents just don't want to come to San Antonio. So we're stuck with Splitter. Someone mentioned Rasho. Rasho had a mid range jumper, which would really hurt OKC right about now.
Maybe? Maybe we roll with Baynes which isn't exactly a significant downgrade imo

I can't imagine we would have gotten a worse center...
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  #21  
Old 04-09-14, 03:48 PM
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Probably just have to agree to disagree...
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  #22  
Old 04-09-14, 04:01 PM
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Ya'll need to lay off whatever it is you're smoking. Taigo is the best we could get at the time, with the money we had. Is he as good a value as Robin Lopez, Omer Asik or Marcin Gortat? Maybe, maybe not. The thing is, we didn't have the money and/or pull to get those guys. Center is a tough position to acquire in the NBA and unless we draft one, he's not joining the Spurs. If we want a FA center, we'll have to MASSIVELY overpay him. Did we overpay Tiago? Maybe but we didn't MASSIVELY overpay him. Again, it's all relative to position. If we hadn't paid Tiago, we'd have Baynes or Bonner as our #3/#4 big men. Do you honestly think we're winning a championship with that? If you do, I beg you to seek treatment at your nearest drug rehab facility.


P.S. If you honestly think Rasho would be better vs the Thunder than Splitter, do us all a favor and leave because you must be a Thunder Troll.

Last edited by ThomasamohT; 04-09-14 at 04:09 PM.
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  #23  
Old 04-09-14, 04:09 PM
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Someone is smoking something.... It clearly isn't me...

If you honestly think we "may" have overpaid splitter... You need to leave because either you are related to him, or you are having relations with him...

If we didn't have ssplitter... We would have some other big man which probably wouldn't be that much worse than splitter.... I think you need to take your own advice on treatment mang...

Take a look at his rebounding numbers during last year's playoff run and tell me again we didn't massively overpay him.

If anyone wants to send me a list of centers with lower salaries, or even comparable salaries... I will definitely either eat crow or tell you every player who I think is better. I know San an isn'ta huge FA magnet, but the centers we are talking about aren't exactly big time free agents either.. Splitter is a horrible investment and nothing anyone says will change my opinion... (well, it isn't likely anyway)

P. S we aren't winning championships with splitter either... If you can't tell.
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  #24  
Old 04-09-14, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ThomasamohT View Post
P.S. If you honestly think Rasho would be better vs the Thunder than Splitter, do us all a favor and leave because you must be a Thunder Troll.
It's very simple actually. Splitter can only do things when someone sets him up on a pick and roll or when he posts up under the basket. The Thunder's length, as we saw the last time, is too much for him. Particularly because he can't jump. Rasho, while not as physical, had some post up moves, but more importantly his jumper was pretty consistent. If Splitter had a jumper, he wouldn't be so easily shut down. I'm not sure how that's hard to understand.
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  #25  
Old 04-09-14, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
It's very simple actually. Splitter can only do things when someone sets him up on a pick and roll or when he posts up under the basket. The Thunder's length, as we saw the last time, is too much for him. Particularly because he can't jump. Rasho, while not as physical, had some post up moves, but more importantly his jumper was pretty consistent. If Splitter had a jumper, he wouldn't be so easily shut down. I'm not sure how that's hard to understand.
It isn't hard to understand.. I agree with you on most of this..... But sseriously? Splitter can do something when he posts up under the basket... Usually all I see is him and his two inch vertical get rejected, or he turns it over. Every now and then he will reverse it in.... But he is crap on the offensive block... I cringe everytime he gets it there.

don't intend to offend or piss anyone off here.. Just friendly argument... I don't really Care to get into heated argument with my spurs brethren...I just think splitter is worthless... And I feel like we could get another player for significantly less, if splitter made 5 million per, I probably wouldn't have as much to say ...with that being said.. I hope splitter turns into a top center in the NBA... Buuut I don't see any crow dinners in my future.
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  #26  
Old 04-09-14, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RealMadrid12 View Post
yeah find me a center who is going to take back seat to the system, not gonna happen, again, he is overpaid, but is what the market calls for, yeah get someone from toros, is why teams like sixers, utah and all the other teams who are not making the playoffs are scouting the D LEAGUE ah? if you are looking for a $9 million center to dominate like a .....Noah. perhaps howard, good luck buddy, not gonna happen. we have the best team in the NBA right now, must be a reason, did we lose game 6 last year because of splitter? no, we lost due to our hall of fame coach not having duncan inthere for a rebound and manu getting a nervous attack in game 6, TP dissapearing on game 6, I will take my chances with this team and give us the ring for the thumb
We have the best record....OKC owns our @$$ right now and have been for a while now. So I'd have to say they're the best team right now cause they own the team with the best record. I think they've beat us like 14 out of 17 times or something like that. We "MUST" get past the Thunder to get to the finals, much as it would have been last year if Russell didn't get hurt. Oh, and none of that "the playoffs is different stuff" cause they kicked our booties then too.

Last edited by MRJONESIII; 04-09-14 at 05:05 PM.
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  #27  
Old 04-09-14, 06:42 PM
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Gentlemen, gentlemen I am glad none of us here can hire or fire. I trust in RC and Pop. They have a pretty good record in these matters.
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  #28  
Old 04-09-14, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by HeloteSpurs View Post
I've been saying this since his rookie season! The guy is simply not a good basketball player, he makes for an ok backup, but not a starting center getting paid $9 million a season, that's highway robbery if you ask me. I cannot believe the Spurs who make little to no mistakes (Malik Rose's contract, trading for RJ) might have made the worst decision by giving him such a big contract. There's so many big guys in the NBA that are not used properly or have no been giving a legit shot to do anything, or just need a system where they fit in, a system that teaches them how to become a better player (sound familiar?) and it drives me crazy that they never want to go over a big guy who knows how to do more then set a screen. I wouldn't mind a shot blocker, a good rebounder, how about this crazy idea and get a big who can score in the post?

This season has been bearable at the center position due to Diaw playing much better this season.
TRY 10 MILLION THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #29  
Old 04-09-14, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDthaWay2B View Post
Someone is smoking something.... It clearly isn't me...

If you honestly think we "may" have overpaid splitter... You need to leave because either you are related to him, or you are having relations with him...

If we didn't have splitter... We would have some other big man which probably wouldn't be that much worse than splitter.... I think you need to take your own advice on treatment mang...

Take a look at his rebounding numbers during last year's playoff run and tell me again we didn't massively overpay him.

If anyone wants to send me a list of centers with lower salaries, or even comparable salaries... I will definitely either eat crow or tell you every player who I think is better. I know San an isn'ta huge FA magnet, but the centers we are talking about aren't exactly big time free agents either.. Splitter is a horrible investment and nothing anyone says will change my opinion... (well, it isn't likely anyway)

P. S we aren't winning championships with splitter either... If you can't tell.
The problem here is that YOU can't name 5 better centers who were available last year that also make less money than Splitter. Here's a website to help you along: http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nba/center/limit-50/
The best part about Splitter's contract is that it decreases over time. That means when Tim, Manu, Tony, etc.. come off the books he'll only be making 8.5M.

As for not winning championships, you shouldn't blame Tiago for not winning game 6 last year. Put that all on Turnobili and his AWFUL, AWFUL performance. (Speaking of overpaid players...)
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  #30  
Old 04-09-14, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
TRY 10 MILLION THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Which means he'll be a better deal in future years as opposed to most contracts that get worse over time.
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  #31  
Old 04-09-14, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
It's very simple actually. Splitter can only do things when someone sets him up on a pick and roll or when he posts up under the basket. The Thunder's length, as we saw the last time, is too much for him. Particularly because he can't jump. Rasho, while not as physical, had some post up moves, but more importantly his jumper was pretty consistent. If Splitter had a jumper, he wouldn't be so easily shut down. I'm not sure how that's hard to understand.
Clearly you only care about the offensive end. I'll admit that Rasho would be able to shoot the wide open jumper better than Splitter can. Then again if we're relying on Rasho/Tiago to win us the game on offense, God help us.

That said, when it comes to defense, playing Rasho against the Thunder would be worse than playing 4v5.

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Old 04-09-14, 07:08 PM
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Gentlemen, gentlemen I am glad none of us here can hire or fire. I trust in RC and Pop. They have a pretty good record in these matters.
Even though game 6 gave me reason to doubt, I still have trust in Pop and R.C.
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Old 04-09-14, 07:29 PM
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The problem here is that YOU can't name 5 better centers who were available last year that also make less money than Splitter. Here's a website to help you along: 2013-2014 NBA Top Base Salaries - Center
The best part about Splitter's contract is that it decreases over time. That means when Tim, Manu, Tony, etc.. come off the books he'll only be making 8.5M.

As for not winning championships, you shouldn't blame Tiago for not winning game 6 last year. Put that all on Turnobili and his AWFUL, AWFUL performance. (Speaking of overpaid players...)
Your right... I can't because I don't track players salaries.. thanks for that list.. Now i can name about 10 guys that make less that splitter that are better.. .it's shocking really..
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Old 04-09-14, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ThomasamohT View Post
Clearly you only care about the offensive end. I'll admit that Rasho would be able to shoot the wide open jumper better than Splitter can. Then again if we're relying on Rasho/Tiago to win us the game on offense, God help us.

That said, when it comes to defense, playing Rasho against the Thunder would be worse than playing 4v5.
I don't know why you think Tiago played better defense than rasho... I think Rash had more blocks in his first season in SA than splitter has in his entire SA career...
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Old 04-09-14, 07:42 PM
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Gentlemen, gentlemen I am glad none of us here can hire or fire. I trust in RC and Pop. They have a pretty good record in these matters.
Everyone makes mistakes... Even R. C and Pop.
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Old 04-09-14, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ThomasamohT View Post
Clearly you only care about the offensive end. I'll admit that Rasho would be able to shoot the wide open jumper better than Splitter can. Then again if we're relying on Rasho/Tiago to win us the game on offense, God help us.

That said, when it comes to defense, playing Rasho against the Thunder would be worse than playing 4v5.
Same number of rebounds, more blocks. He was also healthy most of the time. If anything they are equal, but Rasho would be better against OKC this year. And yes, it's offense I'm worried about. Did you see the last game against OKC? Better defense wouldn't have brought a win.
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Old 04-10-14, 12:07 AM
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I don't know why you think Tiago played better defense than rasho... I think Rash had more blocks in his first season in SA than splitter has in his entire SA career...
Theres a reason the Spurs got rid of Rasho when they did. When Rasho first joined the Spurs, he posted a defensive win share (DWS) of 5.6 which is pretty damn good (better than Tiago has ever done). Unfortunately the league changed and over the next 2 years his DWS slipped to 3.8 and 2.9. Once he was gone it got even worse for the slow footed big man. In his 4 years after the Spurs he went to a 2.2, 1.6, 1.1 and then a 0.2. Considering that his offensive win share (OWS) was never higher than a 2.3, that meant he wasn't contributing much to the team. His overall winshare as a Spur was 7.2, 4.2 and 3.7. This gives him an average of 5.03 win share.

Tiago on the other hand improved his DWS and OWS over his first 3 years with the Spurs. He's had a rough year with injuries as has the team as a whole and thus his numbers are down this year. His DWS over his 4 years are: 1.1, 1.6, 3.5 and 2.0. His OWS over his 4 years are: 1.1, 3.0, 4.7 and 2.2. Tiago's overall winshare numbers are: 2.3, 4.6, 8.2 and 4.2. Excluding his rookie year, Tiago's average for win share is 5.67.

My point in all of this is that the NBA has changed over the years. Tiago may not be the best center in the nba (that would be Anthony Davis) but he was certainly the best we could get this past offseason.

Btw, I'm still waiting on that list of players that were better than Tiago that we could have gotten this past offseason.
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Old 04-10-14, 05:57 AM
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There must be snowball fights in hell if we have a thread that's nostalgic about Rasho...!
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Old 04-10-14, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ThomasamohT View Post
Theres a reason the Spurs got rid of Rasho when they did. When Rasho first joined the Spurs, he posted a defensive win share (DWS) of 5.6 which is pretty damn good (better than Tiago has ever done). Unfortunately the league changed and over the next 2 years his DWS slipped to 3.8 and 2.9. Once he was gone it got even worse for the slow footed big man. In his 4 years after the Spurs he went to a 2.2, 1.6, 1.1 and then a 0.2. Considering that his offensive win share (OWS) was never higher than a 2.3, that meant he wasn't contributing much to the team. His overall winshare as a Spur was 7.2, 4.2 and 3.7. This gives him an average of 5.03 win share.

Tiago on the other hand improved his DWS and OWS over his first 3 years with the Spurs. He's had a rough year with injuries as has the team as a whole and thus his numbers are down this year. His DWS over his 4 years are: 1.1, 1.6, 3.5 and 2.0. His OWS over his 4 years are: 1.1, 3.0, 4.7 and 2.2. Tiago's overall winshare numbers are: 2.3, 4.6, 8.2 and 4.2. Excluding his rookie year, Tiago's average for win share is 5.67.

My point in all of this is that the NBA has changed over the years. Tiago may not be the best center in the nba (that would be Anthony Davis) but he was certainly the best we could get this past offseason.

Btw, I'm still waiting on that list of players that were better than Tiago that we could have gotten this past offseason.
Here you go with your formulas again... I could care less what some fformula says about a player.. I've already had this argument with someone that used aformula tthat essentially said Andre Drummond was more effective than Kevin Durant... Rasho was a better defender than Tiago.. Get that garbage out... And I don'tknow who we could hhave gotten because Pop isn't Malkovich and I'm not in his head... But on that list, from gortat to Lopez to asik... Geez probably even dalembert orkaman... Give me aany of them...
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Old 04-10-14, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TimmyDthaWay2B View Post
Here you go with your formulas again... I could care less what some fformula says about a player.. I've already had this argument with someone that used aformula tthat essentially said Andre Drummond was more effective than Kevin Durant... Rasho was a better defender than Tiago.. Get that garbage out... And I don'tknow who we could hhave gotten because Pop isn't Malkovich and I'm not in his head... But on that list, from gortat to Lopez to asik... Geez probably even dalembert orkaman... Give me aany of them...
And all of these players are just dying to become a Spur.
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Old 04-10-14, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ThomasamohT View Post
Even though game 6 gave me reason to doubt, I still have trust in Pop and R.C.
I agree, that was a strange substitution.
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Old 04-10-14, 01:06 PM
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And all of these players are just dying to become a Spur.
I wouldn't know, just like you wouldn't know unless you are really Miss Cleo.. I bet kaman is after this season in LA though. Shoot, I'm pretty sure asik already stated he wanted out... Give me either of them over the human marshmallow
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Old 04-10-14, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TimmyDthaWay2B View Post
Here you go with your formulas again... I could care less what some formula says about a player.. I've already had this argument with someone that used a formula that essentially said Andre Drummond was more effective than Kevin Durant... Rasho was a better defender than Tiago.. Get that garbage out... And I don't know who we could have gotten because Pop isn't Malkovich and I'm not in his head... But on that list, from gortat to Lopez to asik... Geez probably even dalembert or kaman... Give me any of them...
I've got to ask: why are you a Spurs fan? The Spurs are one of the leaders in the league in looking at advanced metrics for scouting and analyzing players. If I remember correctly, the Spurs were one of the pilot teams to install the SportsU tracking cameras in the AT&T center. Using these numbers (and others gathered from various sources) the Spurs were able to acquire the great perimeter defenders that others in the league passed on (Bowen, Kawhi, Green). If you believe these guys just passed Pop's "stink test" then you are sorely mistaken. But if you won't listen to reason, that pretty much ends the argument.

As for the players you mentioned, heres a few problems with them:

Gortat: What would we send to the Suns to get him? The Wizards sent a first round pick (in a deep draft) and 14.5M in expiring contracts. Maybe they take Bonner, Green and Kawhi but if you send that for an expiring contract, you're an idiot. Or maybe you send them Manu, Tony or Tim...

As for numbers, he's pretty much the equivalent of Tiago. Better at some things (blocks), worse at others (win share). Personally I'd take the guy that knows the system and isn't going to be a FA this summer (where he'll command +10M per year).

Lopez: I'll concede that Robin is better than Tiago, when he's healthy. When he was with Phoenix he played in less than 74% of their games. For reference, Tiago has played in 84% of the Spurs games before this year (and that includes Pop's resting him a game or two). I believe Robin was a steal and I'm not really sure why the Pelicans got rid of him for so cheap (2 2nd rounders and cash).

Asik: Sure he makes less than Tiago ($8.4M against the cap) but again the question remains, how do the Spurs acquire him? In spite of his pouting and demands to be traded, the Rockets still didn't trade him. What would you have given up? A first rounder? Not enough. A first rounder and Green/Belinelli? Still not enough. The Rockets would have RAPED us in any trade for Asik because ultimately they knew they had all the power.

Dalembart: A interesting case. This guy has been on 4 teams in the last 4 years. Without even looking at numbers, that tells me something is wrong. With looking at numbers, I see that in his 5 years prior to joining the mavs he'd had an OWS of 1.18 and DWS of 2.5. Thats the equivalent of Tiago's defense and 1/3rd his offense. Yes he has improved drastically this year but if he hadn't, right now you'd be screaming "why didn't we resign Tiago!"

Kaman: Same as above with Dalembert except worse. 4 years, 4 teams. Defensive win share of 1.33 and an OWS of -0.38 in the last 4 years. YES THAT IS A NEGATIVE. Kaman has actually hurt his teams on offense and helped them on defense about half as much as Tiago.
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Old 04-10-14, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ThomasamohT View Post
I've got to ask: why are you a Spurs fan? The Spurs are one of the leaders in the league in looking at advanced metrics for scouting and analyzing players. If I remember correctly, the Spurs were one of the pilot teams to install the SportsU tracking cameras in the AT&T center. Using these numbers (and others gathered from various sources) the Spurs were able to acquire the great perimeter defenders that others in the league passed on (Bowen, Kawhi, Green). If you believe these guys just passed Pop's "stink test" then you are sorely mistaken. But if you won't listen to reason, that pretty much ends the argument.

As for the players you mentioned, heres a few problems with them:

Gortat: What would we send to the Suns to get him? The Wizards sent a first round pick (in a deep draft) and 14.5M in expiring contracts. Maybe they take Bonner, Green and Kawhi but if you send that for an expiring contract, you're an idiot. Or maybe you send them Manu, Tony or Tim...

As for numbers, he's pretty much the equivalent of Tiago. Better at some things (blocks), worse at others (win share). Personally I'd take the guy that knows the system and isn't going to be a FA this summer (where he'll command +10M per year).

Lopez: I'll concede that Robin is better than Tiago, when he's healthy. When he was with Phoenix he played in less than 74% of their games. For reference, Tiago has played in 84% of the Spurs games before this year (and that includes Pop's resting him a game or two). I believe Robin was a steal and I'm not really sure why the Pelicans got rid of him for so cheap (2 2nd rounders and cash).

Asik: Sure he makes less than Tiago ($8.4M against the cap) but again the question remains, how do the Spurs acquire him? In spite of his pouting and demands to be traded, the Rockets still didn't trade him. What would you have given up? A first rounder? Not enough. A first rounder and Green/Belinelli? Still not enough. The Rockets would have RAPED us in any trade for Asik because ultimately they knew they had all the power.

Dalembart: A interesting case. This guy has been on 4 teams in the last 4 years. Without even looking at numbers, that tells me something is wrong. With looking at numbers, I see that in his 5 years prior to joining the mavs he'd had an OWS of 1.18 and DWS of 2.5. Thats the equivalent of Tiago's defense and 1/3rd his offense. Yes he has improved drastically this year but if he hadn't, right now you'd be screaming "why didn't we resign Tiago!"

Kaman: Same as above with Dalembert except worse. 4 years, 4 teams. Defensive win share of 1.33 and an OWS of -0.38 in the last 4 years. YES THAT IS A NEGATIVE. Kaman has actually hurt his teams on offense and helped them on defense about half as much as Tiago.
It doesnt matter why I'm a spurs fan. I don't see the relevance in that question.

I'll admit, I don't know how we would get anyone because I really haven't looked into it... I'm more or less saying we SHOULDNT have given Tiago that contract, and at that time I'm not sure who was or wasn't available... I'm Saying I would have taken any of those guys. And I wouldn' ttrade Kawhi... It would have to be ridiculous.... I have probably been too hard on Tiago due to defending my stance.. My ppoint is, I feel we could have invested that money elsewhere and rolled with someone on the cheap. I truly feel Tiago is a dime a dozen, and can pull that kind of talent (or lack of) from somewhere else. My stance is, we should have let him walk.... I don't believe Tiago is better tthan any of those guys... Honestly, I'm not sure he is that much better than Baynes.. If at all..

If you want to know why I'm a spurs fan. David Robinson. As a child, I really admired how he wasn't afraid to voice his beliefs... I immediately became a fanatic... I was lucky enough to have become a spurs fanatic well before they were blessed with Tim Duncan.

Also... I'm not even really saying trade... I'm more or less saying we should have let Tiago walk and signed an asik or someone like that... Maybe asik signed with Houston b4 Tiago with sa.. I honestly don't know..
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Old 04-10-14, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TimmyDthaWay2B View Post
It doesnt matter why I'm a spurs fan. I don't see the relevance in that question.

I'll admit, I don't know how we would get anyone because I really haven't looked into it... I'm more or less saying we SHOULDNT have given Tiago that contract, and at that time I'm not sure who was or wasn't available... I'm Saying I would have taken any of those guys. And I wouldn' ttrade Kawhi... It would have to be ridiculous.... I have probably been too hard on Tiago due to defending my stance.. My ppoint is, I feel we could have invested that money elsewhere and rolled with someone on the cheap. I truly feel Tiago is a dime a dozen, and can pull that kind of talent (or lack of) from somewhere else. My stance is, we should have let him walk.... I don't believe Tiago is better tthan any of those guys... Honestly, I'm not sure he is that much better than Baynes.. If at all..

If you want to know why I'm a spurs fan. David Robinson. As a child, I really admired how he wasn't afraid to voice his beliefs... I immediately became a fanatic... I was lucky enough to have become a spurs fanatic well before they were blessed with Tim Duncan.

Also... I'm not even really saying trade... I'm more or less saying we should have let Tiago walk and signed an asik or someone like that... Maybe asik signed with Houston b4 Tiago with sa.. I honestly don't know..
Well I just had a nice long post analyzing all the FA centers last year but I accidentally backed out and lost it. So heres the list of centers from last summer:

Aldrich, Cole
Blair, DeJuan
Brown, Kwame
Bynum, Andrew
Camby, Marcus
Collins, Jason
Dalembert, Samuel
Diop, DeSagana
Gadzuric, Dan
Gray, Aaron
Hollins, Ryan
Howard, Dwight
James, Bernard
Jefferson, Al
Kaman, Chris
Melo, Fab
Mohammed, Nazr
Mozgov, Timofey
O'Neal, Jermaine
Oden, Greg
Ohlbrecht, Tim
Pekovic, Nikola
Petro, Johan
Przybilla, Joel
Sacre, Robert
Splitter, Tiago
Stiemsma, Greg
Turiaf, Ronny

Other than Howard, Jefferson, Oden, Dalembert, Pekovic and Tiago I don't see another name on that list worth mentioning. Howard, Jefferson and Pekovic were out of our price range. We went after Oden but he chose Miami. Not sure if we went after Dalembert but with his history I can see why we wouldn't. Basically it came down to Tiago was the best of the rest. Without giving up a major piece we weren't going to do any better at the center position than Tiago. Unfortunately he isn't playing all that well this year. Then again, of the big 3, only Manu is playing up to last year (which wasn't all that great but definitely decent enough). Unfortunately I can see that the only center that would please you is if Big Dave put on a uni and stepped back on the court. That aint gonna happen, so we'll play with the best we've got.
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Old 04-10-14, 06:20 PM
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Well I just had a nice long post analyzing all the FA centers last year but I accidentally backed out and lost it. So heres the list of centers from last summer:

Aldrich, Cole
Blair, DeJuan
Brown, Kwame
Bynum, Andrew
Camby, Marcus
Collins, Jason
Dalembert, Samuel
Diop, DeSagana
Gadzuric, Dan
Gray, Aaron
Hollins, Ryan
Howard, Dwight
James, Bernard
Jefferson, Al
Kaman, Chris
Melo, Fab
Mohammed, Nazr
Mozgov, Timofey
O'Neal, Jermaine
Oden, Greg
Ohlbrecht, Tim
Pekovic, Nikola
Petro, Johan
Przybilla, Joel
Sacre, Robert
Splitter, Tiago
Stiemsma, Greg
Turiaf, Ronny

Other than Howard, Jefferson, Oden, Dalembert, Pekovic and Tiago I don't see another name on that list worth mentioning. Howard, Jefferson and Pekovic were out of our price range. We went after Oden but he chose Miami. Not sure if we went after Dalembert but with his history I can see why we wouldn't. Basically it came down to Tiago was the best of the rest. Without giving up a major piece we weren't going to do any better at the center position than Tiago. Unfortunately he isn't playing all that well this year. Then again, of the big 3, only Manu is playing up to last year (which wasn't all that great but definitely decent enough). Unfortunately I can see that the only center that would please you is if Big Dave put on a uni and stepped back on the court. That aint gonna happen, so we'll play with the best we've got.
I would take kaman over him. Just my opinion. Kaman not a great defender, but I don't think Tiago is either.. Kaman can play offense though.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tiago put up a big game tonight with all my complaining..
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Old 04-10-14, 06:56 PM
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The factor that everyone needs to think about here is TD preservation...... we need in the team a player that preserves TD to put up Double's at 37/38.

To preserve TD we need someone to take the post defence beatings and bodying up on rebounds from the likes of Dwight and Zac etc not a scorer necessarily we have a top ranked offence. I know that whenever it doesn't work as required you look for where you can get more scoring but that is not how our team works.

Splitter for all peoples negative comments does those two key things well, he is a good defensive player. It would be better if he could be more reliable on the offensive end, he can put up points just not consistently, but how many centres under $10 mill can do both well?
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Old 04-10-14, 07:21 PM
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I would take kaman over him. Just my opinion. Kaman not a great defender, but I don't think Tiago is either.. Kaman can play offense though.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tiago put up a big game tonight with all my complaining..

And thats why you're NOT making decisions for the Spurs. Kaman is an offensive liability. Yes he's scoring 10.4 ppg (Tiago is only 2ppg behind) but at what cost? If you were to replace Kaman with an "average big man"(which is heavily skewed by the number of good PF in the game) your offense improves by 2.23ppg. Replace Kaman with Tiago and you improve by 1.36ppg.

On defense Kaman isn't all that great either. He saves his team 2.73ppg when he is on the court. Tiago saves the Spurs 4.45ppg.

Accordingly, if you were to swap Kaman with Tiago, the Lakers would improve their point differential by over 3ppg. How can a "good" offensive player be so horrible on an awful team??? Likewise if you put Kaman on the Spurs they would have won 3 fewer games this year. That might not be that much but depending on who we lost those 3 games to, that could be the difference between having home court advantage and not.

Chris Kaman's all star birth was one of the biggest jokes in NBA history. That year, the Clippers scored just as much when he was on the bench as when he was in the game. On defense, opposing teams scored 109 points per 100 possessions. For reference, Baynes only gives up 104 points per 100 possessions. Kaman is the sole reason that the NBA started fitting players into spots that they didn't normally play, just so they could prevent a repeat of that incident.
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Old 04-10-14, 07:44 PM
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And thats why you're NOT making decisions for the Spurs. Kaman is an offensive liability. Yes he's scoring 10.4 ppg (Tiago is only 2ppg behind) but at what cost? If you were to replace Kaman with an "average big man"(which is heavily skewed by the number of good PF in the game) your offense improves by 2.23ppg. Replace Kaman with Tiago and you improve by 1.36ppg.

On defense Kaman isn't all that great either. He saves his team 2.73ppg when he is on the court. Tiago saves the Spurs 4.45ppg.

Accordingly, if you were to swap Kaman with Tiago, the Lakers would improve their point differential by over 3ppg. How can a "good" offensive player be so horrible on an awful team??? Likewise if you put Kaman on the Spurs they would have won 3 fewer games this year. That might not be that much but depending on who we lost those 3 games to, that could be the difference between having home court advantage and not.

Chris Kaman's all star birth was one of the biggest jokes in NBA history. That year, the Clippers scored just as much when he was on the bench as when he was in the game. On defense, opposing teams scored 109 points per 100 possessions. For reference, Baynes only gives up 104 points per 100 possessions. Kaman is the sole reason that the NBA started fitting players into spots that they didn't normally play, just so they could prevent a repeat of that incident.
I don't even know how to respond. You are throwing around a bunch of numbers as if they are facts. As if it is a fact that if kaman went to sa, he would decrease our wins by 3.223 games. Ridiculous. For all we know, kaman would produce better with a competent offense. I take those numbers with a grain of salt. Only strengthening my opinion sitting here watching splitter miss his third chip shot in a row. Say kaman as an all star is a joke all you want, at least he had the ability to be one.
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Old 04-10-14, 10:50 PM
ThomasamohT's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDthaWay2B View Post
I don't even know how to respond. You are throwing around a bunch of numbers as if they are facts. As if it is a fact that if kaman went to sa, he would decrease our wins by 3.223 games. Ridiculous. For all we know, kaman would produce better with a competent offense. I take those numbers with a grain of salt. Only strengthening my opinion sitting here watching splitter miss his third chip shot in a row. Say kaman as an all star is a joke all you want, at least he had the ability to be one.
You're absolutely right in that these numbers do need to be taken with a grain of salt. The Lakers are not the same as the Spurs. So let me give you some INDISPUTABLE facts.

Kaman is shooting .509 from the field, his best % since '08-'09 (his career avg is .487). His true shooting % (TS%) this year is .537.

Tiago is shooting .525 from the field (his career avg is .562). His TS% this year is .577.

Kaman has attempted 8.9 shots per game this year, Tiago has attempted 5.7. In spite of getting 3.2 more shots per game on a bad team, Kaman is only getting 2.3 more points per game.

Kaman lucked into an all star spot. He was not elected by the coaches, rather he was selected by Stern as a replacement. That year he robbed Marc Gasol of what would have been his first all star nod. Marc was better in just about every statistic (player efficiency rating, rebounding rate, every measure of shooting percentage from the field, assist rate, steal rate and block rate) but Stern probably thought that the game needed more LA representation (since Kobe was out).

I can laugh at him because no team wants him. He is a scrub and always has been. Theres a reason Dallas didn't keep him last year or NO the year before that. In his best years, he only mildly hurt his teams. In his declining years...

Finally here are the only stats you need to know: The Spurs are 33-0 when Splitter scores 7 points. They're also 16-6 (.727) without Splitter and 45-12(.789) with him in the lineup.
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