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-   -   Dare I say, "The Diaw Effect" (http://www.spursreport.com/forums/spurs-nba-fan-feedback/120151-dare-i-say-diaw-effect.html)

crazytlingit 07-08-13 01:06 AM

Dare I say, "The Diaw Effect"
 
I had a wild thought about our team next year and our small forward problem. If Diaw's chunky butt lost 20-30 pounds our small forward situation would be fixed, man I wish he would get committed to lose a few pounds. He is only 31 and he still has a few good years until he starts to really drop off, unless he comes to camp 20 lbs heavier.

Overall, I feel we our going to be just as good as last year, hopefully better, but that depends on our young players. The big three still have enough in the tank to make us contenders, but we will be pretenders if our young guys don't step up their games and guys like Diaw don't commit themselves. Kawhi will be huge, if he fades to being average then our chances will dwindle, but if he busts out of Coach Pops chains, we will be true contenders.

doom32x4 07-08-13 01:16 AM

Let Duncan show him how. Right now our sf dept chart is 1.Leonard, 2. Leonard. 3. A sg.

Rzarector7 07-08-13 02:20 AM

If he lost weight he would not be the defender he is in the post now, so it's a catch 20/20.

uthscsamd 07-08-13 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rzarector7 (Post 1302834)
If he lost weight he would not be the defender he is in the post now, so it's a catch 20/20.

That would be OK. If he lost some weight, he would be able to guard the big SF (Melo, Lebron, Durant, and Josh Smith types) and the smaller or perimeter PFs (Dirk, Garnet, Griffen types). He could become a smarter Odom or Horry type which would give the Spurs a lot of versatility.

spurscrazed 07-08-13 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rzarector7 (Post 1302834)
If he lost weight he would not be the defender he is in the post now, so it's a catch 20/20.

Good Point! :thumb

I would rather he stays BULKY!

We just have to play our SG's now for SF back up.

I so much miss a quality defender as Cap'n Jack. Wishing he never left us. It was real tough not to have him at the end of last season and PO.

Maybe just maybe Belinelli could play that SF position for us....It just have to be by committee. Or we just might ride that HORSE of Mr. LEONARD till the end!!:shocked

montgod 07-08-13 03:23 PM

I actually had this in mind as well. I agree and think that if he lost 20lbs, he would be much harder to guard and play at a higher level than he is now. He seems just a step behind... if only he would put forth the effort in the summer and work more on his 3pt shooting.

joyner 07-08-13 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rzarector7 (Post 1302834)
If he lost weight he would not be the defender he is in the post now, so it's a catch 20/20.

The phrase is Catch-22 -- I don't say this to rudely correct you, I just figured you'd rather hear the correct phrase before you repeat that one to someone in person who actually matters, unlike denizens of a message board :)

doom32x4 07-08-13 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joyner (Post 1302900)
The phrase is Catch-22 -- I don't say this to rudely correct you, I just figured you'd rather hear the correct phrase before you repeat that one to someone in person who actually matters, unlike denizens of a message board :)

Even fewer people know that catch-22 was coined in the book Catch-22, which I've read three times. Refers to the fact that Yossarian can't leave the Army for being crazy because if you want to leave you can't be crazy, and if you don't want to leave, then they won't send you home anyways. Probably my favorite novel ever.:thumb

BTW, not implying anybody specifically, I just haven't found it to be an overly read novel.

WILLTHETHRILL 07-08-13 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spurscrazed (Post 1302840)
Good Point! :thumb

I would rather he stays BULKY!

We just have to play our SG's now for SF back up.

I so much miss a quality defender as Cap'n Jack. Wishing he never left us. It was real tough not to have him at the end of last season and PO.

Maybe just maybe Belinelli could play that SF position for us....It just have to be by committee. Or we just might ride that HORSE of Mr. LEONARD till the end!!:shocked

They could have used Captain Jack in the Finals bottom line.

Guapo 07-09-13 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL (Post 1302905)
They could have used Captain Jack in the Finals bottom line.


I agree. Another situation where Pop's ego got in the way of team.

doom32x4 07-09-13 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guapo (Post 1302927)
I agree. Another situation where Pop's ego got in the way of team.

How? Jackson already said he couldn't accept playing behind Green and Manu, Pop didn't need a player who could not accept his role on the bench going into the playoffs. I.guess he could have just had a pissed off Jack on his bench, but there were indications that his additude was having am influence on some players, namely Green .

Uwe Blab 07-09-13 03:25 PM

:laugh You guys think he would have defended Lebron better than KY or Green, or even Diaw? Not a chance. He certainly wasn't going to shoot lights out. Miami's defense would have had him for lunch. Please, if he were worth keeping on the team, Pop would have found a way to keep him despite his attitude. If anything, he would not have seen any playing time, or he would have shot the Spurs out of games if he did.

joyner 07-09-13 03:33 PM

Stephen Jackson was worthless for us last year, period. Anyone saying otherwise is fooling themselves -- he was literally the Spurs' worst player last season. Worse than Baynes, worse than De Colo, worse than Neal, worse than Anderson. He had the team's lowest PER, TS%, eFG%, offensive rating, as well as one of the highest TO% (behind only Diaw, Anderson, Baynes, and De Colo), all while eating up a huge portion of possessions when he's on the floor (18.7%, behind only the Big 3, Neal, and garbage-time players whose numbers are skewed) and only contributing middling defense (8th on the team in defensive rating, 10th in defensive win shares).

He was the only Spur to have a negative offensive win shares rating, and had by far the fewest win shares per 48 minutes. Jackson was awful last year.

spurduncan21 07-09-13 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joyner (Post 1302960)
Stephen Jackson was worthless for us last year, period. Anyone saying otherwise is fooling themselves -- he was literally the Spurs' worst player last season. Worse than Baynes, worse than De Colo, worse than Neal, worse than Anderson. He had the team's lowest PER, TS%, eFG%, offensive rating, as well as one of the highest TO% (behind only Diaw, Anderson, Baynes, and De Colo), all while eating up a huge portion of possessions when he's on the floor (18.7%, behind only the Big 3, Neal, and garbage-time players whose numbers are skewed) and only contributing middling defense (8th on the team in defensive rating, 10th in defensive win shares).

He was the only Spur to have a negative offensive win shares rating, and had by far the fewest win shares per 48 minutes. Jackson was awful last year.

Agreed. Dude was slower than someone in a wheelchair. No pun intended just stating the fact. I agreed with your entire post

spurscrazed 07-09-13 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doom32x4 (Post 1302938)
How? Jackson already said he couldn't accept playing behind Green and Manu, Pop didn't need a player who could not accept his role on the bench going into the playoffs. I.guess he could have just had a pissed off Jack on his bench, but there were indications that his additude was having am influence on some players, namely Green .

Cap'n Jack would have at least add a good defensive body to bother those HEATdoom32x4. At least he had the SIZE to bother few shooters! Besides that his competitive spirit could have somehow kicked in at PO crucial moments. He has a history to bring it in PO. This guy has a lot of SPUNK in him despite getting old.

By the way an interview with Cap'n Jack just got released in the last few days revealed the uncut version on why Cap'n Jack was let go.

Here is a video of that interview.



<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-bbkd8UGSAg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




It is a long video so if you are not patient here is a brief synopsis on what he says at the second third of that video:

Cap'n Jack said at 12:39 minutes that he wanted playing time and he wanted to prove to Pop he was healthy and ready to play more min so Jack approached practice like Gangsta--he said (talking trash...etc..) i.e he played HARD physical full force at practice and he was INTIMIDATING other players --two guys in particular..... (Cap'n Jack is a class act he did not mention who but I will let you figure out who :wink....) So Jack's mistake that he felt he needed to play to get better, but Pop would not play him.....Jack thought that playing more minutes could have raised his not so great stats at that time.

Pop got upset because he challenged Cap'n Jack that the reason he puts guys them in rotation ahead of him was that they were better than him. Cap'n Jack got offended by that. Pop should have realized that he could have helped this team get TOUGHER and Play BIG BOYS Game by having such practices however Pop was just playing it safe and he released Jack and brought TMAC..... Thanks to Pop and his unrealistic expectations of those young ones or mis communications with his Veteran players to cause all that then come SHORT in the PO for missing that SWAGGER/EDGE ! I thought Pop loves them Veterans!!! :banghead :banghead

doom32x4 07-09-13 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spurscrazed (Post 1302991)

Cap'n Jack said at 12:39 minutes that he wanted playing time and he wanted to prove to Pop he was healthy and ready to play more min so Jack approached practice like Gangsta--he said (talking trash...etc..) i.e he played HARD physical full force at practice and he was INTIMIDATING other players --two guys in particular..... (Cap'n Jack is a class act he did not mention who but I will let you figure out who :wink....) So Jack's mistake that he felt he needed to play to get better, but Pop would not play him.....Jack thought that playing more minutes could have raised his not so great stats at that time.

Pop got upset because he challenged Cap'n Jack that the reason he puts guys them in rotation ahead of him was that they were better than him. Cap'n Jack got offended by that. Pop should have realized that he could have helped this team get TOUGHER and Play BIG BOYS Game by having such practices however Pop was just playing it safe and he released Jack and brought TMAC..... Thanks to Pop and his unrealistic expectations of those young ones or mis communications with his Veteran players to cause all that then come SHORT in the PO for missing that SWAGGER/EDGE ! I thought Pop loves them Veterans!!! :banghead :banghead

Jackson is just massaging the truth to save face, he played 20 minutes a game, plenty to show how much he had left in the tank. If he had actually played better in games he would have gotten more time. It's not the opposite. As Allen Iverson once said...
Quote:

I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game last it's my last but we're talking about practice man.

katyspursfan 07-09-13 08:41 PM

We'll see how he does with his new team.
Which one he did he decide to sign with? Oh. All of them that offered a contract.

doom32x4 07-09-13 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katyspursfan (Post 1302996)
We'll see how he does with his new team.
Which one he did he decide to sign with? Oh. All of them that offered a contract.

:applause

WILLTHETHRILL 07-09-13 08:43 PM

I don't see how he was a bad matchup to play against the Heat in The Finals.

doom32x4 07-09-13 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL (Post 1302998)
I don't see how he was a bad matchup to play against the Heat in The Finals.

He openly admitted that he was bothering other players on the team with his actions in practice, the team reached the NBA finals. It was his. He just didn't play well this season, he thought he deserved more minutes anyways at the expense of Green, Gino, and Leonard. He may have been right about Gino in hindsight (and hindsight only, nobody rational expected what happened in the PO) only, but their minutes weren't that interchangable, but Green had the greatest Finals 3pth shooting performance ever, and Leonard should've played 48min a game if possible.

spurscrazed 07-09-13 09:08 PM

Could it possibly be that Pop made huge mistake this PO by him relying on those young guns? Usually traditional Pop is well known for relying on his Veterans in the PO for the longest time.

WILLTHETHRILL 07-09-13 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doom32x4 (Post 1303002)
He openly admitted that he was bothering other players on the team with his actions in practice, the team reached the NBA finals. It was his. He just didn't play well this season, he thought he deserved more minutes anyways at the expense of Green, Gino, and Leonard. He may have been right about Gino in hindsight (and hindsight only, nobody rational expected what happened in the PO) only, but their minutes weren't that interchangable, but Green had the greatest Finals 3pth shooting performance ever, and Leonard should've played 48min a game if possible.

If you played basketball or sports you want to beat the other guy in practice no matter if you started or was on the bench. I did the same thing like he did when I competed. I'm not saying throwing elbows at your own guys but let them know you are not going away and if they stumble? Watch out! He never mentioned on ESPN or anywhere else that he was equal or above Kawhi that's insane for you to post that. To me you are just targeting him versus the truth. He alluded to Manu and Green not Kawhi. Yes Green was lights out but where was he in Game 6 and Game 7? Where was he in WCF the year before? MIA both times. If you watched the PO there were times Kawhi was dragging his knee down the court. He even said he needed to see if his knee was so called "right" for TEAM USA this summer. Why would he mention that on his own? Not saying he was injured in The Finals but playing 48 minutes a game is also an insane idea. Look at Steph Curry.....it didn't work out too well for him. Yes SJax had a bad year on and off the court but having that "old playoff warrior" in your back pocket is a great tool to have as a team. Also when the move happened, I didn't like the way it was done. Right before the team photo? Not a classy move by the FO.

JFly 07-09-13 10:01 PM

I'm not going to defend. SJax's performance or behavior last year. You can't. But I will say that he couldn't have been any worse at the end of the bench than TMac was. If you are going to waste a roster spot, you might as well waste it on a guy who knows the team, has had success, and who could be that guy who gives you something when every other SG on the team is struggling.

Many may not remember this, but in 2003, the Spurs top 2 PGs (Parker and Claxton) were terrible in the clenching game of the finals. But up stepped Steve Kerr, from his damn NBA deathbed, to play PG at the end of that game. And play his ass off in a way I hadn't seen him play before. That's what kept going through when I saw our guards falling apart in the last two games with TMac sitting there. Maybe Jack had one more in him, craziness and all.

joyner 07-09-13 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spurscrazed (Post 1302991)
Cap'n Jack would have at least add a good defensive body to bother those HEATdoom32x4. At least he had the SIZE to bother few shooters! Besides that his competitive spirit could have somehow kicked in at PO crucial moments. He has a history to bring it in PO. This guy has a lot of SPUNK in him despite getting old.

He wasn't a good defensive body this year -- not even close. Defensive rating of 103, 10th-best on the team. Worse than "defensive stalwarts" Manu, De Colo, Green. Tied with the All-NBA Defensive three-hundredth team of Baynes, Anderson, Joseph, and Diaw. Barely in the top 100 in the NBA in defensive rating, not even in the top 150 in the NBA in defensive win shares. This season he was an average defensive player and literally among the league's worst offensive players. Bottom 50 in offensive rating. Bottom 100 in net win shares. Bottom 100 in turnover percentage. Bottom 100 in effective FG%. Bottom 100 in true shooting percentage. 465th out of 469 players in offensive win shares!

It's tempting to get caught up in simplistic subjective assessments like "he's better body" or "he has more spunk" or "he's a playoff warrior", but those subjective assessments are worthless. Jackson was bad last year. Period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFly (Post 1303008)
I'm not going to defend. SJax's performance or behavior last year. You can't. But I will say that he couldn't have been any worse at the end of the bench than TMac was. If you are going to waste a roster spot, you might as well waste it on a guy who knows the team, has had success, and who could be that guy who gives you something when every other SG on the team is struggling.

I disagree. Neither Jackson nor McGrady were going to play, so what's better: a player that's going to whine and moan that he's not playing or a player that's positive and just grateful to be there? Attitude means something, especially for end-of-the-bench players.

WILLTHETHRILL 07-09-13 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joyner (Post 1303014)
He wasn't a good defensive body this year -- not even close. Defensive rating of 103, 10th-best on the team. Worse than "defensive stalwarts" Manu, De Colo, Green. Tied with the All-NBA Defensive three-hundredth team of Baynes, Anderson, Joseph, and Diaw. Barely in the top 100 in the NBA in defensive rating, not even in the top 150 in the NBA in defensive win shares. This season he was an average defensive player and literally among the league's worst offensive players. Bottom 50 in offensive rating. Bottom 100 in net win shares. Bottom 100 in turnover percentage. Bottom 100 in effective FG%. Bottom 100 in true shooting percentage. 465th out of 469 players in offensive win shares!

It's tempting to get caught up in simplistic subjective assessments like "he's better body" or "he has more spunk" or "he's a playoff warrior", but those subjective assessments are worthless. Jackson was bad last year. Period.



I disagree. Neither Jackson nor McGrady were going to play, so what's better: a player that's going to whine and moan that he's not playing or a player that's positive and just grateful to be there? Attitude means something, especially for end-of-the-bench players.


Having TMAC means nothing if he has zero game left. Tim Duncan had no comment on the SJax release....I wonder why? He didn't seem pleased about it.

Subjective? The guy earned a ring and his PO performance normally goes up versus down to include stat wise according to his history. Bonner's? Also SJax would have played stretch four in theory not so much the two or three as people have implied here.

joyner 07-10-13 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL (Post 1303030)
Having TMAC means nothing if he has zero game left. Tim Duncan had no comment on the SJax release....I wonder why? He didn't seem pleased about it.

Duncan never comments on anything. Everyone, and I mean everyone, knows that.

Quote:

Subjective? The guy earned a ring and his PO performance normally goes up versus down to include stat wise according to his history. Bonner's? Also SJax would have played stretch four in theory not so much the two or three as people have implied here.
False. Jackson's PER has dropped from the regular season to the playoffs five of his six playoff years. If you disagree, cite your own statistics. Otherwise, you're making a subjective argument.

WILLTHETHRILL 07-10-13 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joyner (Post 1303036)
Duncan never comments on anything. Everyone, and I mean everyone, knows that.



False. Jackson's PER has dropped from the regular season to the playoffs five of his six playoff years. If you disagree, cite your own statistics. Otherwise, you're making a subjective argument.

He does make comments. I live in San Antonio and his disgust was on his face during that move. Wasn't he the one who called Jackson the ultimate teammate? Yes it was his comment.

I wasn't talking about PER. I was talking overall career stats season versus PO. Just looking at the 2012 playoffs overall he had one bad series. The Clipper series. PER is a joke Brook Lopez was #5 in PER last year. He only made the all star team because of an injury to another player.

joyner 07-10-13 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL (Post 1303060)
I wasn't talking about PER. I was talking overall career stats season versus PO. Just looking at the 2012 playoffs overall he had one bad series. The Clipper series. PER is a joke Brook Lopez was #5 in PER last year. He only made the all star team because of an injury to another player.

I repeat: If you disagree, cite your own statistics. "Just looking at the 2012 playoffs" is not citing statistics. Cite your statistics and backup your claims.

WILLTHETHRILL 07-10-13 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joyner (Post 1303064)
I repeat: If you disagree, cite your own statistics. "Just looking at the 2012 playoffs" is not citing statistics. Cite your statistics and backup your claims.

Sorry not following your rules. They are there to look at everywhere for everyone to view. Also Brook Lopez was #5 on PER last season. There is one stat proven. Barely made the all star team. Only to injury.

WILLTHETHRILL 07-10-13 10:52 AM

Oh what about the Duncan part?^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ just wondering

uthscsamd 07-10-13 11:52 AM

Duncan didn't comment and you can see the disgust on his face? Maybe he just drank some bad Gatorade before you saw him. Trying to come up with interpretations of facial expressions and body language? Who are you, Fox News?

spurscrazed 07-10-13 12:24 PM

Look I am not arguing that Cap'n Jack numbers were supporting playing him, rather that his PO experience was something missing for my Spurs in that Finals!!!

We can all disagree on agreeing which is fine with me. My doubts however will always be that Pop made a wrong decision in letting Cap'n Jack leave right before the PO.

Veteran like Cap'n Jack could have helped period. His stats might have said he was done but his PO experience might have kicked in at least for few minutes he could have helped even for few seconds. We WERE BEAT at .28 seconds!!!This was the PO and the FINALS. It just can't get closer than that....:(

Pop in my honest opinion made a big mistake by letting Jack leave. TIMING could not have been worse for the team!!!!!!!!!!

I felt bad as a fan how about that team who played with him all year long?

TEAM Chemistry and TEAM Moral was Shot Down big time by that move!!!!!IT was done also silently, you could feel that none of the players wanted to bring that up because it is Pop's decision and you never questions Pop....

TMAC was just a practice corp did absolutely nothing but cheer leading the troops. He was brought to help them in the practice etc...

Look Pop has created some doubt for some of us here.

On hopes that Pop will manage his players better in next years and help them build that TEAM Chemistry till the end!

WILLTHETHRILL 07-10-13 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uthscsamd (Post 1303073)
Duncan didn't comment and you can see the disgust on his face? Maybe he just drank some bad Gatorade before you saw him. Trying to come up with interpretations of facial expressions and body language? Who are you, Fox News?

I was watching the local news on several stations at that time. I'm sure you watch local SA sports news in Japan daily. He has a poker face but on that incident he didn't. Sorry:smirk

WILLTHETHRILL 07-10-13 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spurscrazed (Post 1303074)
Look I am not arguing that Cap'n Jack numbers were supporting playing him, rather that his PO experience was something missing for my Spurs in that Finals!!!

We can all disagree on agreeing which is fine with me. My doubts however will always be that Pop made a wrong decision in letting Cap'n Jack leave right before the PO.

Veteran like Cap'n Jack could have helped period. His stats might have said he was done but his PO experience might have kicked in at least for few minutes he could have helped even for few seconds. We WERE BEAT at .28 seconds!!!This was the PO and the FINALS. It just can't get closer than that....:(

Pop in my honest opinion made a big mistake by letting Jack leave. TIMING could not have been worse for the team!!!!!!!!!!

I felt bad as a fan how about that team who played with him all year long?

TEAM Chemistry and TEAM Moral was Shot Down big time by that move!!!!!IT was done also silently, you could feel that none of the players wanted to bring that up because it is Pop's decision and you never questions Pop....

TMAC was just a practice corp did absolutely nothing but cheer leading the troops. He was brought to help them in the practice etc...

Look Pop has created some doubt for some of us here.

On hopes that Pop will manage his players better in next years and help them build that TEAM Chemistry till the end!

I agree with you and Jfly on this topic but in the end it was Pop's move. Just would have been nice to face the Heat with full power.

doom32x4 07-10-13 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL (Post 1303060)
He does make comments. I live in San Antonio and his disgust was on his face during that move. Wasn't he the one who called Jackson the ultimate teammate? Yes it was his comment.

I saw that, I'm just not sure if he was mad at PATFO or at Sjax for whatever actually happened or both. It's a possibility that we don't know the full story and Jack isn't telling the whole story. I'm not convinced the Pop cut him because of a couple of intense practices. It's quite possible that beyond "intimidating" a few guys in practice (Gino is supposedly one of them, I find it hard to believe that he's intimidated by Jack. I mean c'mon, dude still goes to Argentina, aka Kidnapville for rich folks), he was affecting other players beyond that, specifically Green, and Green was a more important piece to this year's team.

Mombear 07-11-13 07:04 PM

:laugh

Rzarector7 07-11-13 11:24 PM

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/def...ribble_220.jpg


DIAW! WE NEED THIS ONE TO PLAY SF!

Dulce 07-12-13 01:10 AM

I believe the topic has something to do with the Diaw effect, not the lol mod effect. Stay on topic and quit the name calling.

Mombear 07-12-13 06:17 PM

EL OH EL.... :hat


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