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-   -   WoJo; Ginobili 2 yrs/ $14 Million (http://www.spursreport.com/forums/spurs-nba-fan-feedback/120091-wojo-ginobili-2-yrs-14-million.html)

Spursin6 07-03-13 02:16 PM

WoJo; Ginobili 2 yrs/ $14 Million
 
Too much in my mind. But it is what it is.

thesuspence281 07-03-13 02:18 PM

So if we sign other free agents first to use up our cap space, can we then sign manu and tiago to their deals and go over the cap and end up around the tax threshold?

Spursin6 07-03-13 02:19 PM

I don't believe so. All of our own FAs count against our cap first.

grizzly_bexar 07-03-13 02:21 PM

Our cap space is gone. We will go over the If we re-sign neal and they are just going to have the mid-level exception available. I think maybe also the biannual exception.

doom32x4 07-03-13 02:23 PM

They may have done this on purpose so that exceptions are available. If they had brought him lower, the resulting cap space may not be more than the exceptions.

pessimist 07-03-13 02:24 PM

We didn't address needing another player who could score off the dribble. I'm thinking if you had a gun to the Spurs' heads, they'd tell you that they didn't want Diaw to opt-in.

tabspur 07-03-13 02:25 PM

That's probably correct. Gives us more flexibility to use the exceptions.

spurduncan21 07-03-13 02:26 PM

Can splitter or bonner be packaged together for a trade? I know in some cases a period of time must pass before said players can be traded so.... Holla back if you know the answer

doom32x4 07-03-13 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pessimist (Post 1302108)
We didn't address needing another player who could score off the dribble. I'm thinking if you had a gun to the Spurs' heads, they'd tell you that they didn't want Diaw to opt-in.

If Kawhi stays on track, they may have that in house. Don't despair yet, MLE is in play.

thesuspence281 07-03-13 02:26 PM

But the exceptions arent guna get us anyone that our free agent money could have no?

doom32x4 07-03-13 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesuspence281 (Post 1302112)
But the exceptions arent guna get us anyone that our free agent money could have no?

Only if we did't sign Tiago, didn't sign Manu, and amnestied Bonner.

grizzly_bexar 07-03-13 02:29 PM

This is not a tragedy by any sense. Remember it is never really did dollar amounts that the players get that counts. It is the dollar amounts relative to available Space versus salary-cap exceptions.

So paying Manu 7 mil and splitter 9 mil plus whatever for Neal say 3 milis the same in effect as signing them all total for half of that because you would have abou the same money left for one final piece which is the mid level.

grizzly_bexar 07-03-13 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pessimist (Post 1302108)
We didn't address needing another player who could score off the dribble. I'm thinking if you had a gun to the Spurs' heads, they'd tell you that they didn't want Diaw to opt-in.

I think that's probably true.

grizzly_bexar 07-03-13 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesuspence281 (Post 1302100)
So if we sign other free agents first to use up our cap space, can we then sign manu and tiago to their deals and go over the cap and end up around the tax threshold?

We will not be near the tax, but we will likely end up over the cap.

Uwe Blab 07-03-13 02:32 PM

Well, that's that. We'll have to put our hopes that Tim doesn't regress and that Tony doesn't break down while putting the entire team on his back the whole year. KY, we need you more than ever.

DDAMAGE 07-03-13 02:36 PM

RT @ZachLowe_NBA Most likely course for Spurs is to stay over cap via Manu/Tiago cap holds, use full MLE, then sign new Manu/Tiago deals.

rapideEtpetit 07-03-13 02:37 PM

But doesn't this leave them with ~3 mil left (I read somewhere that the cap space was $19mil for this year). Barring a sign/trade, and the sudden emergence of Oden as the next Ben Wallace (his ceiling at this point, IMO), we don't have ANY upgrades as compared to last year.

Neal is going to choke and is pretty much good for nothing other than TOs and 1 good game/playoffs.

Manu is *bless his heart* done (WTF are they doing paying him 7mil??)

CoJo might or might not add value. 50-50.

Leonard is the only player that we can bet on to improve (maybe Split, but we've seen his best this season), but with the Big 3's continued decline (we saw what happened as soon as Parker extended his hamstring), I don't see us winning another championship anytime soon.

Its a tragedy that Duncan isn't getting the support he needs while putting up performances he has no business putting up at 37/38.

Sorry for ranting.

grizzly_bexar 07-03-13 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uwe Blab (Post 1302119)
Well, that's that. We'll have to put our hopes that Tim doesn't regress and that Tony doesn't break down while putting the entire team on his back the whole year. KY, we need you more than ever.

Leonard and green also need to continue to develop as does Tiago. And Cory Joseph needs to become a true backup point guard.

tabspur 07-03-13 02:38 PM

Gives us MLE. Up to 4 years. Starts at around $5 million, up to 4.5% yearly raises. That buys a nice Spur type need. It really is good cap management.

ALSPURS 07-03-13 02:38 PM

Yea...doing the #'s in my head I think we go over so might as well sign Neal and then use our Room MLE ....not sure we can use the mini mid level...

MRJONESIII 07-03-13 02:41 PM

What a fu@k!n' waste of money distribution. Way to kill the needs of the team and pray the old guys get better. No help for Parker or Leonard! Sickened me that they figured this is truly going to help them get back to the finals.

DDAMAGE 07-03-13 02:41 PM

For those who hoped for Spurs to use cap room on shiny, new FA toys ... Meet me back here in two years. They'll have beaucoup space then.

tabspur 07-03-13 02:46 PM

We get the full MLE if we are above cap like we think. I'm not sure if we used the bi annual exception last year or not. I think that's around $2 million. Ironically, if we nickel and dimed Manu, we would have less money available.

tabspur 07-03-13 02:52 PM

I'm quite surprised there are still people on here that actually believed the Spurs would over pay for guys like Evans or Ellis. That, is the kind of signing we should all be pussed about if it ever happens. Which it won't. The Spurs are too smart to sign players who have skills, but no hoops team skills or IQ. This is the reason we have the model, most successful nba franchise. Even when Timmy had a bad year to years ago, our system got us to the WCF. I'm sure the Spurs will sprinkle in some younger players, and develop guys like Joeseph, Nando, Baynes, etc. they have been told for years they are too old. Sure some forum GM's will say so again.

montgod 07-03-13 02:52 PM

Still trying to understand the Spurs grand plan here. There has to be a reason for it all as well as all the rumorville action regarding interest in everyone (i.e. MEllis, Korver, DWright, Oden, AK47, etc.).

I definitely wasn't expecting for Manu to make this much a year especially when he was contemplating retiring at the end of the Finals. Why a two year deal with no options?

thesuspence281 07-03-13 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montgod (Post 1302135)
Still trying to understand the Spurs grand plan here. There has to be a reason for it all as well as all the rumorville action regarding interest in everyone (i.e. MEllis, Korver, DWright, Oden, AK47, etc.).

I definitely wasn't expecting for Manu to make this much a year especially when he was contemplating retiring at the end of the Finals. Why a two year deal with no options?

Yeah Im sure glad we had all those misdirection smoke screens so that we could resign our own free agents at more than what they deserve.

tuncaboylu 07-03-13 03:01 PM

We resigned with Splitter-Manu and we will have full MLE.

That's not bad at all. Last year's team + full MLE. We should go after Jarrett Jack and AK47.

spurscrazed 07-03-13 03:01 PM

LOVE MANU and I was hoping to give less money for Manu so we can use the cap to bring more needed chip pieces...:(

Maybe we could have lost Manu and we needed Manu back.....?!
Market Value!? It is determined by big market teams and small market teams would have to pay for it. facepalm

It is what it is folks.

We just have to play the CARDS dealt to us more wisely.:smirk

Our Spurs FO needs to make the best of all those contracts!!!!!!!!!

Who knows if the second year is Guaranteed? Who knows how much is the first year? Who knows what the terms are on those contracts!

DDAMAGE 07-03-13 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montgod (Post 1302135)
Still trying to understand the Spurs grand plan here. There has to be a reason for it all as well as all the rumorville action regarding interest in everyone (i.e. MEllis, Korver, DWright, Oden, AK47, etc.).

I definitely wasn't expecting for Manu to make this much a year especially when he was contemplating retiring at the end of the Finals. Why a two year deal with no options?



Quote:

Originally Posted by DDAMAGE (Post 1302123)
RT @ZachLowe_NBA Most likely course for Spurs is to stay over cap via Manu/Tiago cap holds, use full MLE, then sign new Manu/Tiago deals.


I don't know how it works but maybe Manu and Splitter get a different contract BUT I don't know..I'm just hoping for the best..

montgod 07-03-13 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuncaboylu (Post 1302137)
We resigned with Splitter-Manu and we will have full MLE.

That's not bad at all. Last year's team + full MLE. We should go after Jarrett Jack and AK47.

How are you factoring two players with the MLE? There is no way.... at least not the ones you mention.

Maybe one but definitely not two unless a trade occurs.

spurduncan21 07-03-13 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuncaboylu (Post 1302137)
We resigned with Splitter-Manu and we will have full MLE.

That's not bad at all. Last year's team + full MLE. We should go after Jarrett Jack and AK47.

I'd like to use MLE on ellis and perform sign a trade using bonner and neal's new contract for AK-47

thesuspence281 07-03-13 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spurduncan21 (Post 1302142)
I'd like to use MLE on ellis and perform sign a trade using bonner and neal's new contract for AK-47

Sure why not.

montgod 07-03-13 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spurduncan21 (Post 1302142)
I'd like to use MLE on ellis and perform sign a trade using bonner and neal's new contract for AK-47

Nice thought, but IF.. and that's a BIG IF something like that were to happen, I would imagine it would be the other way around since Minnesota doesn't have anymore cap space after their recent signings (to point of discussing renouncing AK47) and Bucks do. I doubt they accept that though... for Ellis.

Its going to be interesting to see what Spurs do next w/all the rumors swirling of who they are interested in.

spurduncan21 07-03-13 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesuspence281 (Post 1302143)
Sure why not.

You are a smart man indeed :)

spurduncan21 07-03-13 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montgod (Post 1302145)
Nice thought, but IF.. and that's a BIG IF something like that were to happen, I would imagine it would be the other way around since Minnesota doesn't have anymore cap space after their recent signings (to point of discussing renouncing AK47) and Bucks do. I doubt they accept that though... for Ellis.

Its going to be interesting to see what Spurs do next w/all the rumors swirling of who they are interested in.

I get what you're saying. Either way I think there is interest in Neal out on the market. I hope the FO looks to sign and trade him. I would love for Ellis to come in take his PT as well as alleviating Manu and TP's duties at point. Also, I think AK-47 would sign for less in exchange for 2-3 year contract with third being team option

thesuspence281 07-03-13 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spurduncan21 (Post 1302146)
You are a smart man indeed :)

WHy thank you. But seriously tho. If its possible. Why not?

spurduncan21 07-03-13 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesuspence281 (Post 1302148)
WHy thank you. But seriously tho. If its possible. Why not?

Exdactly my point. This is the time to go ALL in without sacrificing young talent but by my standards and my rational, we are NOT. Using Neal and Bonner for either AK-47 or Ellis is a smart move if it means getting both once using the full MLE. My olnly worry is the spurs signing oden using a portion of the MLE. Does anyone know if we would qualify for the LLE? If so, I can see that going to ODEN

alh1020 07-03-13 03:17 PM

Well, that was a delightful free agency plunge. We should do this again sometime soon when we have some salary cap to work with. Oh, I forgot, we still have the MLE. Do you think Howard might bite?? :sarcasm

tuncaboylu 07-03-13 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montgod (Post 1302141)
How are you factoring two players with the MLE? There is no way.... at least not the ones you mention.

Maybe one but definitely not two unless a trade occurs.

Yes we can get only one of them, but there is no guarantee that both will accept. We should court both.

tabspur 07-03-13 03:22 PM

So, lets look at what the Spurs options are, or what they could have been. Say they would have signed an Ellis. He opted out of a $10 million contract, so you know he's looking for more. If we signed him for $11 million, we lose Tiago, our #1 center, and possibly Manu. We fill in around him with, what ? Now, we resign our guys, who know our system, and who helped us get within an inch of a title, and have about $20 million over 4 years to offer someone else. Looks pretty straight forward to me. It's not like we have the Knicks or Lakers FO spending foolishly. And, we will never pay the luxury tax. Just except that's the market we are in. In top of that, we actually have tradeable assets. Between Diaw and Bonner, we have $10 million in expiring contracts, for seviceable back ups. We have a Nando or Joeseph to throw in, if we decide to keep one over the other, because they are redundant. Plus, some Euro talent. Be patient. I don't think the Spurs are done yet. They just took care of their in house stuff first

spurduncan21 07-03-13 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabspur (Post 1302154)
So, lets look at what the Spurs options are, or what they could have been. Say they would have signed an Ellis. He opted out of a $10 million contract, so you know he's looking for more. If we signed him for $11 million, we lose Tiago, our #1 center, and possibly Manu. We fill in around him with, what ? Now, we resign our guys, who know our system, and who helped us get within an inch of a title, and have about $20 million over 4 years to offer someone else. Looks pretty straight forward to me. It's not like we have the Knicks or Lakers FO spending foolishly. And, we will never pay the luxury tax. Just except that's the market we are in. In top of that, we actually have tradeable assets. Between Diaw and Bonner, we have $10 million in expiring contracts, for seviceable back ups. We have a Nando or Joeseph to throw in, if we decide to keep one over the other, because they are redundant. Plus, some Euro talent. Be patient. I don't think the Spurs are done yet. They just took care of their in house stuff first

I see Neal being signed and traded. Now what would the team use and him and say Bonner for? I think the answer is another shooter, but with better ball handling and anyone compared to NEal is a much better defender. I think they may be planning this exact scenario to get Monte Ellis at say $7M mark and use the MLE for AK-47. All bases would be covered and could throw some sort of contract out there ODEN since we are strong at the core and can ease him into the rigors of the nba again

MRJONESIII 07-03-13 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabspur (Post 1302154)
So, lets look at what the Spurs options are, or what they could have been. Say they would have signed an Ellis. He opted out of a $10 million contract, so you know he's looking for more. If we signed him for $11 million, we lose Tiago, our #1 center, and possibly Manu. We fill in around him with, what ? Now, we resign our guys, who know our system, and who helped us get within an inch of a title, and have about $20 million over 4 years to offer someone else. Looks pretty straight forward to me. It's not like we have the Knicks or Lakers FO spending foolishly. And, we will never pay the luxury tax. Just except that's the market we are in. In top of that, we actually have tradeable assets. Between Diaw and Bonner, we have $10 million in expiring contracts, for seviceable back ups. We have a Nando or Joeseph to throw in, if we decide to keep one over the other, because they are redundant. Plus, some Euro talent. Be patient. I don't think the Spurs are done yet. They just took care of their in house stuff first

Yes, but taking care of the in house stuff should have meant talking care of our back up pg/sf needs to.

thesuspence281 07-03-13 03:34 PM

I was under the impression Oden was going to be offered something around the vet min.

tabspur 07-03-13 03:46 PM

We have the ability to sign another guy now to fill those roles! With about $5 million a year. A signing of Ellis or Evans earlier would have regressed that. Spurs will do a great job and wait til they get value. Again, they can also move some assets, such as expiring contracts. 2014 is the year of the free agent. Expiring contracts are gold. And, lets say an AK47 or Ellis go t get an offer. It's possible for sign and trades, because Bonner and/or Diaw can be rent an expiring contract player. I'm convinced that's one of the reasons we did not look to amnesty Bonner

ALSPURS 07-03-13 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDAMAGE (Post 1302129)
For those who hoped for Spurs to use cap room on shiny, new FA toys ... Meet me back here in two years. They'll have beaucoup space then.

You can atleast give JeffM credit for his words...lol

DDAMAGE 07-03-13 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALSPURS (Post 1302162)
You can atleast give JeffM credit for his words...lol


You know, God's honest truth it was in there then I tried to clean it up (still learning the twitter copy and paste that Spurscrazed showed me) it just didn't work. Was being lazy and didn't want to edit it. My apologies to Jeff...lol

TRUTH 07-03-13 04:08 PM

I just have to laugh. I get that the FO wants to give this group another crack at it, but it's just funny that the two guys that disappeared during the finals are resigned. This was expected, but all I can do is laugh at this point.

tabspur 07-03-13 04:17 PM

Disappeared in finals? Did you watch Parker in games 6 and 7?

tenthousandaces 07-03-13 04:30 PM

I love Manu, really, but this is too much dough right now. Maybe I'm missing something.

tabspur 07-03-13 04:36 PM

I'll say this again. Giving that contract to Manu, ALLOWS us to spend more. A lesser contract, we are under the cap, by a little, and we have no more available $. So, if Holt is ok with spending a few extra (under luxury tax for sure), and we can still add a player of need, this all makes sense. And for all of the complaining on this particular board, if the Spurs had let Manu sign elsewhere, for slightly more, they would have had a fan mutiny on their hands.


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