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DDAMAGE 06-01-13 12:30 PM

Question?
 
Long time follower of this forum just not as knowledgeable as you all to post. I know the Finals hasn't started yet but I was wondering if any of you have insight to the Spurs Cap situation going into next year. Will we be in decent shape? With Manu coming off the books (hoping he comes back at a discount..big fan of Manu) does it help? Ok more then one question..ha Thanks in advance. God Bless America and Our Troops!!!

joyner 06-01-13 01:16 PM

I don't pretend to be a true salary cap expert, and there are people on SR that know far more than I do, but HoopsWorld gives a pretty good summary I think:

San Antonio Spurs Team Salary | HOOPSWORLD | Basketball News & NBA Rumors

Next year's salary cap should be roughly $70 million, of which we're already on the hook for roughly $38 million assuming Diaw and Mills exercise their options (definitely a safe bet on Mills, and almost certain for Diaw as well). That gives us roughly $32 million to work with, with Ginobili, Blair, Bonner, Neal, and Splitter unsigned.

I see Ginobili coming back at maximum $7 million, though I can't imagine more than that (remember, he was the highest-paid Spur this year). Blair's gone, so I see Bonner coming back at $4 million (his non-guaranteed offer, not that I really know what that entails). Neal's qualifying offer is $1.1 million, and I imagine he'll come back at that rate.

That'd leave ~$20 million. Priority #1 is re-signing Splitter, I think, and with the market for big men what it is, I think it'll take around $10 million. I don't think Splitter is good enough to warrant $10 million, but I think the Spurs are $10 million better with him than without him, so I foresee him staying while chowing down on that salary cap room. That'd leave us $10 million to work with while retaining all the major cogs, good enough to bring in a mid-level free agent if we want.

Who could we get for around $10 million? With Blair gone and all our shooters still around I imagine we'd target another bigger body, especially after our Finals victory over the Heat in six games reveals the importance of size in an increasingly small NBA. Big men are hard to come by, though, so the more likely result might be a strong perimeter defender (Tony Allen, anyone?) or another solid spot-up shooter (Redick, perhaps).

I could be totally misrepresenting the cap, though, and I also am completely in the dark about the function of the various exceptions and Bird rights and what have you -- I'm speaking as if it were a hard, straightforward cap, but that's not really the case.

DDAMAGE 06-01-13 01:37 PM

Cool. Thanks.

Mombear 06-01-13 03:39 PM

Thanks joyner :)

Jose_TheGenius 06-01-13 07:55 PM

.........

SO WE'RE GETTING DWIGHT HOWARD?!

katyspursfan 06-01-13 08:09 PM

Joyner seems mostly right, but I believe the $70M figure he is using is the luxury tax level, not the salary cap.

The salary cap for the current season is just north of $58M.
The Spurs can exceed this number to sign their own free agents. They can't exceed it sign other free agents.
They can also exceed the luxury tax number for their own guys. Each has a cap hold until signed or renounced, so they will not be below the salary cap at all.

katyspursfan 06-01-13 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius (Post 1298147)
.........

SO WE'RE GETTING DWIGHT HOWARD?!

Almost certainly!

He will likely visit the att center twice during the regular season :smirk

MRJONESIII 06-01-13 08:38 PM

Do you really think that Howard and his limited brain capacity would tell him that San Antonio and it's culture, winning, lack of taxes (I think), and team concept would be great for his career? Stay out of the spotlight and stay in the title hunt. Best coach, organization, point guard, power forward! Oh yeah, and a great pick and roll situation for lobs! Not to mention, learn post moves from 1 of the 3 greatest (Olajuwon, McCale). Damn and probably the best shooting coach. What a way to being dignity back to himself as a person and possibly make San Antonio a little more attractive for future free agents. "Dwight Howard ", not smart enough. He prefers the pretty book with the big letters and colorful pictures than the dingy, dirty, ripped 400 page book! P.S., good luck those rings buddy!

joyner 06-01-13 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katyspursfan (Post 1298149)
Joyner seems mostly right, but I believe the $70M figure he is using is the luxury tax level, not the salary cap.

The salary cap for the current season is just north of $58M.
The Spurs can exceed this number to sign their own free agents. They can't exceed it sign other free agents.
They can also exceed the luxury tax number for their own guys. Each has a cap hold until signed or renounced, so they will not be below the salary cap at all.

You're probably right then -- I didn't realize those are different. I do have a question, though. If we can't exceed $58 million to sign free agents, but we can exceed it to sign our own players, then does that suggest that order matters when we're signing players? Do we have to sign the free agent first for them to count against the $58 million rather than the $70 million?

What I mean is, imagine if we sign all our own players first and that puts us at $60 million -- theoretically we couldn't use the extra $10 million to sign a FA. But, if we signed the FA first, then signed our own players, that puts us at $70 million, which is okay because the jump from $60 to $70 million was our own players. Is that right?

I don't imagine that's right because that'd be silly, I'm just curious how the differentiate who's counting toward the $70 million and who's counting toward the $58 million.

KAD 06-01-13 11:02 PM

Thanks for the insight joyner and katy...

b1gdon 06-02-13 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joyner (Post 1298153)
You're probably right then -- I didn't realize those are different. I do have a question, though. If we can't exceed $58 million to sign free agents, but we can exceed it to sign our own players, then does that suggest that order matters when we're signing players? Do we have to sign the free agent first for them to count against the $58 million rather than the $70 million?

What I mean is, imagine if we sign all our own players first and that puts us at $60 million -- theoretically we couldn't use the extra $10 million to sign a FA. But, if we signed the FA first, then signed our own players, that puts us at $70 million, which is okay because the jump from $60 to $70 million was our own players. Is that right?

I don't imagine that's right because that'd be silly, I'm just curious how the differentiate who's counting toward the $70 million and who's counting toward the $58 million.

You ask an excellent question. :rockon

First, the way I understand the cap structure to work, restricted free agents and players that a team has "Bird rights" to have a "cap hold" on their salary equal to their previous salary plus a pre-determeined raise amount that is added to a teams cap number unless the team relinquishes their rights to re-sign that player. So in other words, unless the Spurs make a declaration that we will not sign so and so player, they count against the salary cap. (Note: Larry Coon , aka salary cap GOD, has written an extensive FAQ on everything related to the cap. It is located here: NBA Salary Cap FAQ. READ IT! It can answer all questions).

What does this mean for the Spurs? Manu Ginobili made $14M last season. The Spurs own the "Bird Rights" to him. This means that until the Spurs re-sign or renounce Manu, they will have $14M plus some amount added to their cap number. If I am mus-understanding this please lete me know, but I think this is right, and it will prohibit the Spurs from signing any free agents with their current salary cap space until this situation is resolved either by resigning or renouncing Manu.

So what does this ultimately mean? Go to hoopshype.com and you can see the current salary for Spurs players this year. They are at $70M. The Spurs will renounce Bird rights to Stephen Jackson which will free up $10M+ from their cap number. The rest of the restricted and unrestricted FAs (Manu, Splitter, Mills, Blair, and Neal) will continue to count against the Spurs until their situation is resolved. I think we can all agree Blair is gone so take his $1M off the books. Also, the Spurs will also have about $1M reserved for their first round draft pick. That means the Spurs will have $64M on the books already (remember, all those Spurs FAs have raises built in to their cap holds). In addition, the rules add the MLE and Bi-Annual exception numbers to that cap amount so you can't sign a FA with your cap space then add a player with the exceptions. Traditionally, those exceptions have been about $5M and $2M. So ultimately, I think the Spurs will have a cap number around $70M going into free agency.

As far as the cap number, it has been frozen at $58M for the last two years. I think that this number is about to jump up significantly and it wouldn't surprise me if the new cap number is $70M. So in conclusions, the Spurs will be capped out and only able to use the MLE and Bi-Annual exception to sign any free agents. Even if the Spurs immediately re-sign Manu to something in the relm of $6M per year, they will still have more space available under the MLE and Bi-Annual exceptions, so those will apply.

In ultimate conclusion, the Spurs are capped out for the 2013 FA period.

b1gdon 06-02-13 03:24 AM

I didn't address the partially guaranteed contract of Matt Bonner. He is scheduled to make $4M next year with $1M guaranteed. If the Spurs exorcize this option AND the salary cap is at $70M next year, the Spurs could have $3M taken away from the cap number which would put the Spurs $8M under the cap BEFORE the MLE and Bi-Annual exceptions come into play. So I think it is possible for the Spurs to have $8M in cap room if they cut Bonner, or have $6M in room from the MLE and Bi-An exceptions if they keep him.

b1gdon 06-02-13 03:42 AM

You know, I read Larry Coons FAQ a little further and he lists basketball related income projections for the next 8 years (see item 18). Based on those numbers, I think the new salary cap will be $63M. In other words forget that $70M number, no matter what, the Spurs will be capped out...unless they completely renounce Manu.

katyspursfan 06-02-13 06:25 AM

[quote=b1gdon;1298161]You know, I read Larry Coons FAQ a little further and he lists basketball related income projections for the next 8 years (see item 18). Based on those numbers, I think the new salary cap will be $63M. In other words forget that $70M number, no matter what, the Spurs will be capped out...unless they completely renounce Manu.[/QUOTE]

Or....
If a free agent signs elsewhere, then his hold is immediately removed. But that only really helps with Manu's number. He is the only FA likely to sign for significantly less.

WILLTHETHRILL 06-02-13 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1gdon (Post 1298160)
I didn't address the partially guaranteed contract of Matt Bonner. He is scheduled to make $4M next year with $1M guaranteed. If the Spurs exorcize this option AND the salary cap is at $70M next year, the Spurs could have $3M taken away from the cap number which would put the Spurs $8M under the cap BEFORE the MLE and Bi-Annual exceptions come into play. So I think it is possible for the Spurs to have $8M in cap room if they cut Bonner, or have $6M in room from the MLE and Bi-An exceptions if they keep him.

I don't see them keeping Bonner but his team buyout is a huge trade chip. They had buyouts on Oberto and Bowen and traded them. McDyess was tricky because of the trade kicker and the fact there was a lockout looming. So that made it a hard process.

spurscrazed 06-02-13 03:02 PM

Bonner will not be here next year. He is getting older and his skills are very limited let's face it. So his fans might at least enjoy his last days. And perhaps if Bonner keeps playing at his best, he might earn him a contract somewhere else outside the Spurs.

lonestr 06-02-13 10:29 PM

You can forget Dwight Howard ever wearing a Spurs uniform. After the all-star break, Mike and Mike in the morning had Stephen A. Smith on and he began with the altercation between Pop and Dwight Howard. It was pretty bad.

katyspursfan 06-03-13 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spurscrazed (Post 1298301)
Bonner will not be here next year. He is getting older and his skills are very limited let's face it. So his fans might at least enjoy his last days. And perhaps if Bonner keeps playing at his best, he might earn him a contract somewhere else outside the Spurs.

I still think it's too early to tell.
If the Spurs can find a younger stretch 4 for $4M, then maybe. But, given the season that Bonner has had, I still think he comes back. His defense has improved. He's still tall. And he's still pretty valuable during the regular season.
Shoot, he's been pretty good this postseason, defensively. And the three is still falling.

Orient Express 06-03-13 10:30 PM

All of the above is assuming Splitter signs at a much higher rate (which may or may not happen).

What I think is of particularly interesting note is that you see the Front Office basically making some smart chess moves throughout this past season.

Tiago Splitter hitting FA and afraid someone might overpay him? Go sign a seven foot banger in the middle on the cheap (i.e. Aaron Baynes). Afraid someone might overpay Gary Neal? Make sure to have Patty Mills on the roster to take his place as an insurance plan.

That's why the Spurs FO is what it is!


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