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  #101  
Old 05-22-13, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1gdon View Post
But is Carter a stretch 4? Is he going to keep 4 of the league's premier post defenders in Gasol bros., Howard and Randolph out of the paint? Is VC going to harass and harry the aforementioned post players into mediocre to bad offensive performances? I've been on Bonner in the past, but this year's playoffs have been phenomenal for him.
No he is not but who says you have to have a stretch 4?? Does Bonner start? I was comparing VC vs. Bonner in cost. VC lower. Stats........VC higher. Go down the line mostly VC wins. Yes Bonner shoots a higher 3 point % but he jacks up way less and VC still hit 40%. Better value and better player VC.
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  #102  
Old 05-22-13, 05:02 PM
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Overall, Carter is the better player clearly. But if you look at our roster, only 2 players averaged more shot attempts than vince carter did this year, Duncan and Parker. And he shot 43% from the field.

I don't want him on the spurs, he would take shots from Green and Leonard. I don't look at him as a bargain, I look at him as a ball stopper, and an ok player on a bad Dallas team. Whereas Matt Bonner shot 48% from the field and 44% from 3, he's a big body that fits well in our system and can come in for short periods of time, hit 3's, and occasionally rebound.

That's why, IMHO, swapping bonner for Carter makes no sense. As for me being the GM, well you may not want me in the position(for good reason I might add), but Buford has kept Matt on this team for a long time now, so he must like him.
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  #103  
Old 05-22-13, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by silvernblackfan View Post
Made more threes when the heat was on the spurs last night while still battling Randolph down low

I think he went 1-5. That's what we have to come to expect from Bonner. He will have one hot game then struggle the rest of the series with his shot.. With that being said, Bonner did battle Randolph hard. Bonner was hustling to rebounds and just bringing energy.. He contributed last night even with the bad shooting...Ill take it.
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  #104  
Old 05-22-13, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
The per 48 is a crap stat period. Amazing how Bonner is such a great deal at 3.6 or 3.9 million but Vince Carter is a STARTER who made 3 million this year with Dallas. Is Bonner a better player than VC right now???????? FYI Vince hit 40% of his 3's this year.
Per 48 is not an exact science but when you are talking about bench players you either go deeply into what their minutes were and at what point of the game, or just throw out the per 48 stat to compare bench players. I wouldn't use it to compare him to a starter or first off the bench that gets big minutes, but I think it is effective for the like for like comparison.

When looking at which bench player is better you have to look at the role they will fill, we don't need another 6"6 wing we need a 6"10' PF who can also defend the post. So Bonner is better out of the two for us, and VC is on a steady decline so you won't know what you get if anything from year to year.
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  #105  
Old 05-22-13, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kager View Post
Per 48 is not an exact science but when you are talking about bench players you either go deeply into what their minutes were and at what point of the game, or just throw out the per 48 stat to compare bench players. I wouldn't use it to compare him to a starter or first off the bench that gets big minutes, but I think it is effective for the like for like comparison.

When looking at which bench player is better you have to look at the role they will fill, we don't need another 6"6 wing we need a 6"10' PF who can also defend the post. So Bonner is better out of the two for us, and VC is on a steady decline so you won't know what you get if anything from year to year.
Once again you forgot to take into account salaries. I didn't say bring VC to the Spurs. I was using his stats and salary and the fact he is a starter versus a guy who plays 13 minutes a game during the season and is a bench player. Michael Finley was on the decline when he came to SA FYI. Never said VC to the Spurs. But VC is the better player and makes less money.
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  #106  
Old 05-23-13, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
Once again you forgot to take into account salaries. I didn't say bring VC to the Spurs. I was using his stats and salary and the fact he is a starter versus a guy who plays 13 minutes a game during the season and is a bench player. Michael Finley was on the decline when he came to SA FYI. Never said VC to the Spurs. But VC is the better player and makes less money.
But you're comparinf the salary of a swingman with a front court player. That's not logical. Moreover the big men who shoots 3 are rare in this league. One of them is Novak and he's getting more than Bonner.

Moreover Vince Carter is playing for that moneys since h's 36 years old and had tones of injury case. And Bonner is not an overpaid player in my opinion.
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  #107  
Old 05-23-13, 10:10 AM
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To me his work on defense is a bonus this season. I once had a coach tell me " If they don't
score any then we don't have to score many".
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  #108  
Old 05-23-13, 10:39 AM
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One other thing to consider is where each of those two teams are right now.

Dallas has a starter earning that amount of money and they were a lottery team this year.

San Antonio has a bench player earning that amount of money and they are 2-0 up in the Conference Finals.
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  #109  
Old 05-23-13, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuncaboylu View Post
But you're comparinf the salary of a swingman with a front court player. That's not logical. Moreover the big men who shoots 3 are rare in this league. One of them is Novak and he's getting more than Bonner.

Moreover Vince Carter is playing for that moneys since h's 36 years old and had tones of injury case. And Bonner is not an overpaid player in my opinion.
look at the stats and the money. period.
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  #110  
Old 05-23-13, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjm View Post
One other thing to consider is where each of those two teams are right now.

Dallas has a starter earning that amount of money and they were a lottery team this year.

San Antonio has a bench player earning that amount of money and they are 2-0 up in the Conference Finals.
Well pay Bonner 10 million per season if that's how you measure success.lol
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  #111  
Old 05-23-13, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
look at the stats and the money. period.

Ok, Tiago makes almost $1 million more than Carter, but you could argue Carter had better stats. So using your argument, we would be better off with Vince Carter than Tiago, right?

You can't just look at Stats and Money, and not take into account what they bring to the team. Big men are a commodity, and as such they are going to bring in a little more money.
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  #112  
Old 05-23-13, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by exit7 View Post
Ok, Tiago makes almost $1 million more than Carter, but you could argue Carter had better stats. So using your argument, we would be better off with Vince Carter than Tiago, right?

You can't just look at Stats and Money, and not take into account what they bring to the team. Big men are a commodity, and as such they are going to bring in a little more money.
I think my point of view is going over most heads here. So let them pay 11 million a year for Splitter since some dumb team will give him big bucks. I'm talking about taking into account salary with production to include salary cap hold. I would rather have a VC TYPE of a player.......salary wise............production wise...........salary cap wise................versus MATT BONNER or a Matt Bonner type of player for what he gets paid.
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  #113  
Old 05-23-13, 01:18 PM
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Thats your opinion Will, and thats fine. I respectfully disagree.
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  #114  
Old 05-23-13, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exit7 View Post
Thats your opinion Will, and thats fine. I respectfully disagree.
and that's fine but you and others didn't seem to get the point of what I typed at the time.
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  #115  
Old 05-23-13, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
I think my point of view is going over most heads here. So let them pay 11 million a year for Splitter since some dumb team will give him big bucks. I'm talking about taking into account salary with production to include salary cap hold. I would rather have a VC TYPE of a player.......salary wise............production wise...........salary cap wise................versus MATT BONNER or a Matt Bonner type of player for what he gets paid.
I understood what you're trying to tell and I think you're wrong.

You can prefer to have a Carter type player, but we also have. (Did you check Danny Green's stats and salary)

You can not find that kind of players for each spot in the roster. You can find cheap players i.e. undersized SG like Neal, old swingmen like VC or Grant Hill and unproven PG like Mills and Joseph and they can produce. But when it comes to front-court players, it's not easy to find that kind of player to play cheap.

You can not compare the stat-salary production of a front-court and back-court player. Bonner gets 3M per year and that's normal for a big men who can shoot 3. You can compare his stats and salaries with all the PGs and SGs on the league. But you would waste your time because no one cares about your opinions.
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  #116  
Old 05-23-13, 03:56 PM
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Gentlemen, lets take out any anger we have on the Grizzleys.
Go Spurs Go
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  #117  
Old 05-23-13, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuncaboylu View Post
I understood what you're trying to tell and I think you're wrong.

You can prefer to have a Carter type player, but we also have. (Did you check Danny Green's stats and salary)

You can not find that kind of players for each spot in the roster. You can find cheap players i.e. undersized SG like Neal, old swingmen like VC or Grant Hill and unproven PG like Mills and Joseph and they can produce. But when it comes to front-court players, it's not easy to find that kind of player to play cheap.

You can not compare the stat-salary production of a front-court and back-court player. Bonner gets 3M per year and that's normal for a big men who can shoot 3. You can compare his stats and salaries with all the PGs and SGs on the league. But you would waste your time because no one cares about your opinions.
I'm glad you used spell check for once. No one cares about my opinion but you responded to mine. You strike me as a Jason Collins fan. Suck on that one!
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  #118  
Old 05-24-13, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
I'm glad you used spell check for once. No one cares about my opinion but you responded to mine. You strike me as a Jason Collins fan. Suck on that one!
Ok I forgot to add, "no one except me". Is it OK now?
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  #119  
Old 05-24-13, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tuncaboylu View Post
Ok I forgot to add, "no one except me". Is it OK now?
Jason Collins thanks you
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