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  #1  
Old 04-01-13, 12:15 AM
Rzarector7's Avatar
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I think some can see the Elephant in the room somtimes with the O late in games.

The more I watch and it becomes a pattern and has been for a while, the O gets stagnant and to be honest the ISO and running the clock way down to get a bad shot gets old! I don't know if they are capable of much more but honestly that part really scares me with the playoffs coming up and this being a real pattern. The other night they said they had 2 FG in the last 7 mins against the Clippers! Then Tim made that big shot! That is not going to happen that often if the O can't get creative and free up a good shot or clear the lane out. Put a bigger guy on Tony or cut that head of the snake off and the O just gets flat out stagnant and sputters (I am sure alot of teams notice that and use it against us).

I do not know what can change in 9 games or how they can do it, but the ISO late with a minute to go is really bad and very predictable and you can almost call the outcome of a series or two (I will be in the chat and say ISO here and miss coming up and other team gets the ball back, then it happens) This game upset me today and I thought others would like to share their thoughts on that or see a solution they could go to? I guess that is up to POP but as of now this O is easy to stop late and they just sputter and with the playoffs that could get worse. You can point out today as an example again or the other night or the night before etc., it is a pattern now and a glaring problem.

I had to vent some after this loss and calming down made me want to ask others about this and what they see or what can be done to offset this Iso crap! This is not the way the Spurs used to win games down the stretch and for sure will not get it done this year. If the Spurs have a big enough lead they just seem to hold on like the other Night against Denver when they were choking it away, Clippers they did the same but they had leads and it just dwindles and then gets down to a last shot to win or lose! I wish they would build a better lead late and hold on some or make a BUCKET down the stretch for Gods sakes lol. Is Coaching a problem here? Tony not good enough late? Plays drawn up? Why not Set O? Puzzling at times and they look lost.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.

Last edited by Rzarector7; 04-01-13 at 12:18 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-01-13, 01:46 AM
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Sorry, I can't talk you off the ledge because I've been saying this since they lost to Memphis in the first round a couple of years ago. Unless, KY takes some huge steps forward, they don't have a second go-to guy. Miami really exposed how great pick and roll defense can stop the Spurs from playing their game. It will come down to individual players making great plays in the playoffs. Parker, as great as he is, can only do so much by himself when the entire defensive scheme is to stop him. Duncan still shows greatness from time to time, but you're depending on him to make 15 foot shots, not to dominate the paint, and that can be stopped.

So in a game like today, where every possession is critical in the last few minutes, the opposing team has to stop Tony. The Spurs will have to stop Durant and Westbrook, Lebron and Wade, or Chris Paul and Griffin, etc. We end up giving it to Manu to dump it into Tim at the last second who then shoots up a prayer.
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  #3  
Old 04-01-13, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
Sorry, I can't talk you off the ledge because I've been saying this since they lost to Memphis in the first round a couple of years ago. Unless, KY takes some huge steps forward, they don't have a second go-to guy. Miami really exposed how great pick and roll defense can stop the Spurs from playing their game. It will come down to individual players making great plays in the playoffs. Parker, as great as he is, can only do so much by himself when the entire defensive scheme is to stop him. Duncan still shows greatness from time to time, but you're depending on him to make 15 foot shots, not to dominate the paint, and that can be stopped.

So in a game like today, where every possession is critical in the last few minutes, the opposing team has to stop Tony. The Spurs will have to stop Durant and Westbrook, Lebron and Wade, or Chris Paul and Griffin, etc. We end up giving it to Manu to dump it into Tim at the last second who then shoots up a prayer.
I have seen this many too often, that or Parker out on the top with the clock winding down with a 18 plus footer! That is the shots they seem to get late when they D us up and stop the ISO the Spurs are trying to run. You can almost predict our O at the end of games and how it will end! Up there we miss a bad shot with the clock winding down, they hit a shot or get fouled and hit two! The Spurs down the court again like you said, a bad shot and then they get it back with a shot to win it! This happens often win or lose but it continues to happen.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #4  
Old 04-01-13, 07:23 AM
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We do a little better when healthy Manu closes the game.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-13, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
Sorry, I can't talk you off the ledge because I've been saying this since they lost to Memphis in the first round a couple of years ago. Unless, KY takes some huge steps forward, they don't have a second go-to guy. Miami really exposed how great pick and roll defense can stop the Spurs from playing their game. It will come down to individual players making great plays in the playoffs. Parker, as great as he is, can only do so much by himself when the entire defensive scheme is to stop him. Duncan still shows greatness from time to time, but you're depending on him to make 15 foot shots, not to dominate the paint, and that can be stopped.

So in a game like today, where every possession is critical in the last few minutes, the opposing team has to stop Tony. The Spurs will have to stop Durant and Westbrook, Lebron and Wade, or Chris Paul and Griffin, etc. We end up giving it to Manu to dump it into Tim at the last second who then shoots up a prayer.
Kawhi is getting there, he looked good last night. His jumper wasn't falling but he made up for it with his aggressive driving and slams. He defense was great also. Now, will he be our #2 come playoff time? Doubt it.....I give much credit to the Heat but I feel like it was a trap game and the Spurs didn't seem to be in it from the start. I don't know what to think right now. The Spurs are so "Jekyll and Hyde". When there moving the ball and hitting 3's, they're unbeatable. When they start doing iso's and worrying about clock time, they become stagnant. They haven't been playing well for about the past month....I don't get it
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  #6  
Old 04-01-13, 09:56 AM
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It sucks I watched the Miami game yesterday and was very disappointed. Past few weeks Spurs defense and offense has been winding down.

The Miami defense is what we will be facing throughout the playoffs. I wish someone would kick Diaw in the rear and tell him to be a little greedy sometimes, alot of times he is close to the basket but passes which ends up in a turnover...

We need Splitter to play inside game, KY, Jackson to step up big. I wish we had Pat Mills playing some significant minutes in playoffs. Neal is too streaky. This year will be the first time I will be missing some playoff games (if spurs go deep) as I will be in China. Hopefully there will be good news when I return on the 1st of June.
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  #7  
Old 04-01-13, 11:39 AM
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I think it happens to all the good teams, even Miami they lost against the Bulls whom they were playing without Noah, Rose, hamilton etc..Miami were in the middle of a historic run and they lost, and they didnt actually dominated during the streak they had lucky wins, comebacks etc, same with the Spurs we played some very good teams in the west, Houston(not a piece of cake) denver, clippers and then we were expecting the champs, mentally it take its toll , if we had won against Houston then we wouldnt be as worry, I do agree we need to mix up our offense other than tony, duncan and manu, so predictable and Green needs to stop trying to drible and dunk ha!
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  #8  
Old 04-01-13, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenthousandaces View Post
We do a little better when healthy Manu closes the game.
Yeah, thats rare nowadays though. I don't now if we will see that again this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealMadrid12 View Post
I think it happens to all the good teams, even Miami they lost against the Bulls whom they were playing without Noah, Rose, hamilton etc..Miami were in the middle of a historic run and they lost, and they didnt actually dominated during the streak they had lucky wins, comebacks etc, same with the Spurs we played some very good teams in the west, Houston(not a piece of cake) denver, clippers and then we were expecting the champs, mentally it take its toll , if we had won against Houston then we wouldnt be as worry, I do agree we need to mix up our offense other than tony, duncan and manu, so predictable and Green needs to stop trying to drible and dunk ha!
All Good teams do not just run iso down the stretch and get a bad shot to bail them out and pray it goes in though! I see teams hitting their shots to get closer and closer to the Spurs and some eventually take the lead while the Spurs keep missing shots with under a minute left!


Thats the problem I keep seeing. Win or lose they just barely hold on to a 5 pt lead or so or completely lose it late. The o just looks way out of sync later in games like they are lost and just hoping some 17 footer falls. I do agree on Green though alot, saw him last night do that again and miss badly! Atleast try to get fouled! He just throws up the worst shot by the rim and that would have been a huge bucket for us. Like you said the O is very predictable and teams have figred that out and usally can stop it.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.

Last edited by Rzarector7; 04-01-13 at 02:40 PM.
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  #9  
Old 04-01-13, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalloJD View Post
It sucks I watched the Miami game yesterday and was very disappointed. Past few weeks Spurs defense and offense has been winding down.

The Miami defense is what we will be facing throughout the playoffs.
You said my main point right there, in the playoffs you will face tough D's like that and they were missing their best defender on the wing to boot and they still stalled our team.

This is my main concern right there.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #10  
Old 04-01-13, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalloJD View Post
It sucks I watched the Miami game yesterday and was very disappointed. Past few weeks Spurs defense and offense has been winding down.

The Miami defense is what we will be facing throughout the playoffs.
You said my main point right there, in the playoffs you will face tough D's like that and they were missing their best defender on the wing to boot and they still stalled our team.

This is my main concern right there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by esparzar1 View Post
Kawhi is getting there, he looked good last night. His jumper wasn't falling but he made up for it with his aggressive driving and slams. He defense was great also. Now, will he be our #2 come playoff time? Doubt it.....I give much credit to the Heat but I feel like it was a trap game and the Spurs didn't seem to be in it from the start. I don't know what to think right now. The Spurs are so "Jekyll and Hyde". When there moving the ball and hitting 3's, they're unbeatable. When they start doing iso's and worrying about clock time, they become stagnant. They haven't been playing well for about the past month....I don't get it
You said it all there, the past month! I also worry about moving the ball and hitting threes, don't want them to just rely on threes falling to win a game. I know if they go it's a huge bonus and that usually leads to a win! If not the Spurs are stuck in quick sand out there.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #11  
Old 04-01-13, 02:51 PM
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At some point even the most stubborn of coaches (Pop) has to stop living in a state of denial about Manu and his ability to stay healthy and stop trying to pretend that he's what he was 5 years ago.

If Pop had spent time creating a new 2nd unit LEADER the Spurs wouldn't be in this mess, instead he consistently sits and waits and then when Manu gets hurt AGAIN and the 2nd unit grinds to a halt because they don't have a leader who is actually on the floor a significant amount of time, he seems to grouse about the situation.

If Pop doesn't spend the rest of the season turning over the 2nd unit to SOMEONE and develop a true 6th man, then the Spurs aren't going past the 2nd round.
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  #12  
Old 04-01-13, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 View Post
At some point even the most stubborn of coaches (Pop) has to stop living in a state of denial about Manu and his ability to stay healthy and stop trying to pretend that he's what he was 5 years ago.

If Pop had spent time creating a new 2nd unit LEADER the Spurs wouldn't be in this mess, instead he consistently sits and waits and then when Manu gets hurt AGAIN and the 2nd unit grinds to a halt because they don't have a leader who is actually on the floor a significant amount of time, he seems to grouse about the situation.

If Pop doesn't spend the rest of the season turning over the 2nd unit to SOMEONE and develop a true 6th man, then the Spurs aren't going past the 2nd round.
They'll get through the second round on talent alone even without Manu. But the issue remains as we progress into the WCF and beyond.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-13, 03:09 PM
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I dont think Pop is in a state of denial on this one or any other issues (bonner playing, Blair, richard jefferson,etc.,) he goes with what he has and experience, so we lost against Miami by a three pointer from Chrish Bosh, we defended Ray Allen as we were supposed to since he was going to take the shot and double team the guy, you double team someone is going to be open, Harden made his shot because and then we couldnt make ours, and can be our 6th man here? Green, Leonard, Jackson? we won games we werent suppose to win and lost game we were suppose to win, I believe in the system, we just need make it happen on the floor, we didnt have this issues at the end of the season last year, we do now and i think is just going to help us to be ready " ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN" attitude, be ready for anything, did you see Green he had the same look as last year's playoffs vs Thunder (LOST) Bonner passes a three, Leonard needs to ask for the ball more and timmy and parker need to trust him, is all we can do!
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  #14  
Old 04-01-13, 06:17 PM
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We are being scouted better. Schemes need to be changed, perhaps with more emphasis on Lenard, Green, and Splitter?
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  #15  
Old 04-01-13, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 View Post
At some point even the most stubborn of coaches (Pop) has to stop living in a state of denial about Manu and his ability to stay healthy and stop trying to pretend that he's what he was 5 years ago.

If Pop had spent time creating a new 2nd unit LEADER the Spurs wouldn't be in this mess, instead he consistently sits and waits and then when Manu gets hurt AGAIN and the 2nd unit grinds to a halt because they don't have a leader who is actually on the floor a significant amount of time, he seems to grouse about the situation.

If Pop doesn't spend the rest of the season turning over the 2nd unit to SOMEONE and develop a true 6th man, then the Spurs aren't going past the 2nd round.
I think the reality will come to light when Spurs management and Manu and his agent sit down this summer and talk dinero. Manu will state what he wants and the Spurs will tell him what he’s worth – now.
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  #16  
Old 04-01-13, 10:23 PM
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Not a good trend were seeing from our beloved team. Tonight's game still showed what we all know, lack of defensive presence and I don't care what anyways, Splitter is not it and at times quite soft. Not happy especially being out executed lately
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  #17  
Old 04-01-13, 10:25 PM
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Last thing is when will pop hold Neal accountable on defense? I feel like its always his man that's getting open buckets. It's not that I want to see it that way, it just so happens exactly like that. If he can't defend or thinks double teaming Randolph in the paint helps more than defending the 3 when Ur up 3 with 30 seconds to go then clearly I don't know my basketball.
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  #18  
Old 04-01-13, 10:37 PM
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Yep, once again this same crap happens with under a minute left. They can't get a stop and the other team chips away to tie and then gets a last second shot to win. You can bet on this happening now as it is a given. Just turn your tv now with under a minute to go because this crap is so predictable now it's not even funny. Another loss, say goodbye to that #1 seed this week if they lose to OKC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clovisnmspurfan View Post
We are being scouted better. Schemes need to be changed, perhaps with more emphasis on Lenard, Green, and Splitter?
Once again tonight this comes true.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.

Last edited by Rzarector7; 04-01-13 at 10:39 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-01-13, 10:46 PM
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The elephant sure has been sitting on the defense the last couple of games!!!
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  #20  
Old 05-12-13, 11:56 PM
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Here it comes again to rear it's head! END OF THE Year this started! No buckets ni the fourth down the stretch and lead goes and they lose the game! This sucks but it's still coming to be true. We can't buy a damn bucket late in games at times and it comes back to bite them again.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #21  
Old 05-13-13, 12:10 AM
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It started as soon as we got back home from the rodeo road trip after the all-star break and its rearing its ugly head again.
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  #22  
Old 05-13-13, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesuspence281 View Post
It started as soon as we got back home from the rodeo road trip after the all-star break and its rearing its ugly head again.
Yep, it's here, they show time and time again they can't shake that.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #23  
Old 05-13-13, 02:27 AM
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The elephant in the room that people DON'T want to see is that Manu, once again, allowed a team to get back in a game with ill-advised 3pt shots.
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  #24  
Old 05-13-13, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
The elephant in the room that people DON'T want to see is that Manu, once again, allowed a team to get back in a game with ill-advised 3pt shots.
I agree. Obviously its great when he hits one, but seems there are so many in between that are killers... He also had two horrible turnovers at the end. We looked like golden state at the end of the game...
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Old 05-13-13, 07:51 AM
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Manu is beginning to remind me of all those once great players (in all sports) who stay active one or two years too long. They remember being able to do it but their body says nope ain't going to happen and Pop remembers the good old days and keeps hoping to turn back time with him...

Not going to happen.
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  #26  
Old 05-13-13, 12:44 PM
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Manu pretty much carried them the first half. He did also hit a big 3 and a driving layup in the fourth. We had more issues with Timmy missing shot after shot in the fourth, whe we went four down. It wouldn't hurt to have Neal hit a jumper or 2, especially to make up for his lack of D, or have KY hit and outside shot. I like what Leonard is giving us, but he is starting to look hesitant on his shot. Our problem isn't Manu. It's exactly what happens in the playoffs. The teams that win have a role player or 2 step up. Much like Barnes and Landry did for the Warriors. Guys like Battier and Chalmers have for the Heat. Or A Tony Allen for the Grizz. It's the difference between a W and an L. We can live with exactly what Manu gave us. If Tony and Tim would have played well, we would have put this a way early. By the way, the Warriors startegy in the fourth was much the same. Put the ball in Jack's hands, and let him go one on one. The big Thompson shot in the fourth was also an iso play. Thats the NBA in a nutshell at the end of games. Sometimes, as Pop says, it just comes down to hitting shots. By the way, anybody else notice Neal is drifting left on his jumpers?
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Old 05-13-13, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tabspur View Post
Manu pretty much carried them the first half. He did also hit a big 3 and a driving layup in the fourth. We had more issues with Timmy missing shot after shot in the fourth, whe we went four down. It wouldn't hurt to have Neal hit a jumper or 2, especially to make up for his lack of D, or have KY hit and outside shot. I like what Leonard is giving us, but he is starting to look hesitant on his shot. Our problem isn't Manu. It's exactly what happens in the playoffs. The teams that win have a role player or 2 step up.
I almost agree with you except that throughout the entire season we hear how important Manu is to the 2nd unit and he is. He's now a role player, he's not the starter for this team, he's the 2nd unit leader. He can't keep up with younger wings, and in crunch time he's almost becoming a liability. And if the Spurs are thinking that he HAS to be on the court in crunch time, then to me that's a problem.

I think it's tough for young players (Leonard and Green) to develop any confidence in their abilities at the end of close games, if they're always going to be yanked for a 36 year old player whose peak years were at least 5 years ago.

At the end of games, it's Manu and not our all-star point guard bringing the ball up the court, at the end of games, it's Manu directing the offense instead of Tony, at the end of games, it's 36 year old Manu chasing 23 year old guards instead of our 23 year old athletic guards and small forwards chasing them.

I have a lot of admiration for what Manu did for the franchise, but at some point we have to stop focusing on what he used to be and instead look at what he is. He might hit the big 3 now and then, but the odds say a) he won't, b) he'll get hurt or c) he'll make a silly foul because he's slower than the person he's guarding.

The Spurs should win this series, but if I take the emotion out of it, I sure wouldn't put money on them to do so. I said a long time ago, that this team was playing like a group that would have a tough time getting past the 2nd round and if you think about it, the should be down 3-1 in this series.
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  #28  
Old 05-13-13, 02:53 PM
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I think the Spurs can win the series but they won't get that 5th ring this season. Look it does come down to making shots in the end. The Big 3 is older and need help. With age comes inconsistent play. The Spurs traded for RJ looking for that scorer. It failed but on paper it looked great. They need another go to guy who is not on the downside of his career. But unlike past years, The Spurs will be way under the cap for once. The Manu and SJax deals were like 24 million plus for just those two bench players alone. Only issue......... who will sign in SA? Howard? Josh Smith? Highly doubtful. The Spurs need to reinvest in the draft. Explore sign & trade options.(Splitter) Bring in or use their international prospects for trading purposes. This summer they will have to put it all on the table and figure out how to compete against the elite and beat them. I know this upcoming draft is weaker than last year but there are still some good prospects in the top 45. 2014 should have an improved draft class too. The draft is the key in my view to get back to the top.

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  #29  
Old 05-13-13, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tabspur View Post
Manu pretty much carried them the first half. He did also hit a big 3 and a driving layup in the fourth. We had more issues with Timmy missing shot after shot in the fourth, whe we went four down. It wouldn't hurt to have Neal hit a jumper or 2, especially to make up for his lack of D, or have KY hit and outside shot. I like what Leonard is giving us, but he is starting to look hesitant on his shot. Our problem isn't Manu. It's exactly what happens in the playoffs. The teams that win have a role player or 2 step up. Much like Barnes and Landry did for the Warriors. Guys like Battier and Chalmers have for the Heat. Or A Tony Allen for the Grizz. It's the difference between a W and an L. We can live with exactly what Manu gave us. If Tony and Tim would have played well, we would have put this a way early. By the way, the Warriors startegy in the fourth was much the same. Put the ball in Jack's hands, and let him go one on one. The big Thompson shot in the fourth was also an iso play. Thats the NBA in a nutshell at the end of games. Sometimes, as Pop says, it just comes down to hitting shots. By the way, anybody else notice Neal is drifting left on his jumpers?
I agree on some of that there, but on the Neal part I don't know because I gave up on thinking his shots would go down a long time ago He just misses everything and is bad on D so he pretty much gets a cringe from me when he is on the court (Jack scored on him three in a row and that did it for me again yesterday). I agree on one or two role guys have to step up, right now not many have done this and that is the reason why we are in a 2-2 tie and not a commanding 3-1 lead. The role players stepping up is also if you want to spin it the reason we are 2-2 instead of DOWN 3-1, Green came through in that game one and we got a W!

I agree role guys are the ones who need to hit a shot down the stretch to even things out, if they can't get contributions from those guys they are in a world of trouble whether they get to the next series or not (Could end if they don't step up here).

Either way I hate the misses down the stretch in winnable games, missed shots to FT's etc., just looks like the Spurs go cold and can't get out of the funk.
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  #30  
Old 05-13-13, 03:09 PM
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As a point of clarification, this isn't a new role to Manu. He came off the bench in 2003 championship for Stephen Jackson, and 2007 for Finley. And, there is a reason he has the ball in his hands at crunch time. He's more multi faceted than Tony. Tony has it, it's going up for sure in a late game situation. Manu gives us more options. Will he turn it over, or take an ill advised shot? Yes. but I want someone with the cojones to miss however many in a row, then step up and make the big 3. I would much rather see tgat than yesterdays so called role players alligator arm it. Is his window fading? Yes. Is it closed? No. As for chasing 23 year olds around, it's TP the Warriors are singling out on the mismatch. Going to Barnes when we switch, or having Jack lite us up in 3 straight iso's. I also don't buy the confidence thing. Pop has drawn up plays for both of those guys at the end of games as Pop would say, they are pros. It's their job to make plays and step up. Harrison Barnes had no issues with confidence, and he's there at least fourth option. Again, we just need to hit shots. We held the Warriors to 84 in regulation? Make a few shots, heck even a few free throws last game, we win. Our game plan is fine. Pop will not deviate one bit. Memphis or OKC, or the Heat would be a different story. And hell, Manu is younger than Timmy, younger than guys like Dirk or KG, just months older than Kobe.
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  #31  
Old 05-13-13, 05:33 PM
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Yes Manu came of the bench in 2003 which was 9 years ago. 2007 was 5 years ago, he's not the same player now that he was then.

Dirk and KG are out of the playoffs, and Kobe is broken down - Tim doesn't have to put in the same amount of energy that a guard / small forward does.

Sorry, but to me Manu at this point in his career has become more of a liability that an asset.
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Old 05-13-13, 07:18 PM
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Liability instead of an asset? Man, I don't get some of you. You think we have a chance of winning even this series without everything he gives us? He was our best player yesterday, and won game one with his clutch 3. 21 points, 5-10 from 3, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, and only 2 TO. Not exactly a liability. Oh, you wan't old key contemporaries still contributing in the playoffs? Ray Allen, 2 years older. Derek Fisher, 3 years older. David West, 1 year younger. All vital to their teams playoff chances. We were beat yesterday because our role players did not step up, couldn't shoot, and Timmy had a subpar game, and TP was awful.
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  #33  
Old 05-13-13, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tabspur View Post
Liability instead of an asset? Man, I don't get some of you. You think we have a chance of winning even this series without everything he gives us? He was our best player yesterday, and won game one with his clutch 3. 21 points, 5-10 from 3, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, and only 2 TO. Not exactly a liability. Oh, you wan't old key contemporaries still contributing in the playoffs? Ray Allen, 2 years older. Derek Fisher, 3 years older. David West, 1 year younger. All vital to their teams playoff chances. We were beat yesterday because our role players did not step up, couldn't shoot, and Timmy had a subpar game, and TP was awful.
Those misses from 3 were bad shots and taken at the worst time, which led to GS getting the lead late. He didn't recognize that his shot was not falling and kept jacking it up. He's supposed to be the "finisher". But the sad reality is that he's inconsistent with his shot, is a poor defender, injury prone and turnover prone. And you can't bring up the game winning 3 in game one, because it was his fault they had to go to overtime!
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  #34  
Old 05-13-13, 09:53 PM
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He IS our finisher. That's what he's asked and needed to do. We dont have anyone else we can put the rock in their hands at the end of the game, and make the D honest. TP if hes on a roll scoring. But he wont create for others. and he hasnt been pur D liability this series. Its been Neal and Parker. It's not like he's a Bonner running around on D not even knowing who he's supposed to rotate too, and can't get there even when he does. He's our only swing player that has a multifaceted game. Can create on his own, and create for others. And if you want reasons we went to overtime, check out game 4 shots by Timmy and Tony at the end of the fourth quarter. At least Manu redeemed himself. I'll give you that he's been injury prone as of late. That certainly comes from his frenetic style.However, he's still got the highest basketball IQ on the team along with Tim. And, he HAS to play more minutes than he should, because who are we going to bring in? Neal? Don't think so. TMac? Please. Bonner? Well he's a year away from being captain of the New Hampshire church league team. And probably a year late being just that. Manu can go 6-17 like Tony just did, but still be our key player. Again, look around at our team. We are in the Western conference semis, with 2 out of 3 left at home. And Manu is our ONLY 2-3 that can put the ball on the floor and create. Most teams left have 2,3 or 4 of those type of players. I will live every playoff game with our sixth man giving us the numbers he just gave us. How about our 2 All Stars stepping up? Or our young 'future' star?
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  #35  
Old 05-13-13, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tabspur View Post
He IS our finisher. That's what he's asked and needed to do. We dont have anyone else we can put the rock in their hands at the end of the game, and make the D honest. TP if hes on a roll scoring. But he wont create for others. and he hasnt been pur D liability this series. Its been Neal and Parker. It's not like he's a Bonner running around on D not even knowing who he's supposed to rotate too, and can't get there even when he does. He's our only swing player that has a multifaceted game. Can create on his own, and create for others. And if you want reasons we went to overtime, check out game 4 shots by Timmy and Tony at the end of the fourth quarter. At least Manu redeemed himself. I'll give you that he's been injury prone as of late. That certainly comes from his frenetic style.However, he's still got the highest basketball IQ on the team along with Tim. And, he HAS to play more minutes than he should, because who are we going to bring in? Neal? Don't think so. TMac? Please. Bonner? Well he's a year away from being captain of the New Hampshire church league team. And probably a year late being just that. Manu can go 6-17 like Tony just did, but still be our key player. Again, look around at our team. We are in the Western conference semis, with 2 out of 3 left at home. And Manu is our ONLY 2-3 that can put the ball on the floor and create. Most teams left have 2,3 or 4 of those type of players. I will live every playoff game with our sixth man giving us the numbers he just gave us. How about our 2 All Stars stepping up? Or our young 'future' star?
One of our other role players needs to step up, two preferably! It is that simple. This is why we go on those long droughts I mention, O too preditable, ISO starts and they miss their shots! It is as if teams know aht they are going to do, it is probably true since they have done it so long but we had the players then (And youth of our stars) to make it work. We need more than Manu just to step up I agree! Manu is doing alright sides some ill advised pass and some silly TO's, other than that I agree he is doing what he can as a 6th man.

What I miss though is his driving to the rack! He used to be able to do that and draw a foul and get to the line and bury two for us when we needed it ! This jump shooting Manu can't do that anymore. It is not his fault as age hits, but honestly I miss that part of his game the most as it was automatic down the stretch in key games. If we had 75% of that Manu now we win that last game down the stretch. We need Neal or someone else to step up though and hit some shots, no doubt some of our role guys dissapear at the worst damn times.
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You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #36  
Old 05-14-13, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tabspur View Post
Or our young 'future' star?
As long as Pop makes sure that the ball stays in Manu's hands, that's never going to happen. I'd prefer to see Tony bring the ball up in the closing minutes and then have the team actually RUN a play for Kawhi. He is our FUTURE, Manu is the PAST and frankly I'd rather have my future star learn under pressure and maybe fail than watch my past star jack up quick unadvised threes, or throw a pass to the defense, or commit a silly foul.

As constructed and based on how they're currently playing, this team isn't going to win the title. Well maybe they can, IF the starting five of the Grizzles all get hurt and the starting five of the Heat all end up in prison.
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  #37  
Old 05-14-13, 09:28 AM
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If you are relegated to losing the series, or not advancing , then go ahead and let KY learn on the fly. He is no doubt our future. But even you can see he was extremely nervous in his shots, free throws, passing, and even put back dunk. He's just not ready to have the ball in his hands possession after possession. Again, how much more of an all around game can a team ask for from their sixth man than what Manu had last game? KY had more turnovers than Manu, and Manu has the ball in his hands much much more. Look, Manu's not what he was. But he's good enough, and no doubt the best the Spurs have, given our teams components. The ball HAS to be in Manu's hands. He's our ONLY player that can give us the multiple threats for everyone. Whether running the high screen and roll with Timmy, playing inside out from the wing with Timmy, making the skip pass on the flare screen we run for Green, driving the lane and making the corner pass on the pin down screen for Neal or KY, coming off a brush screen to make the D decide to guard him or dump it to Timmy at the free throw line, or even crossing over Barnes on the wing and shoot the pull up 3 like he did, even though it was a miss. There is just not anyone on our team, not too many guys in the league actually, that can be asked to do all of those different options on a single possession. So you would rather run a play for Ky? He's probably had a dozen plays run for him the entire year, and you want to run a play for him in game four on the road because he's our future? Trust me, Pop wants to win now. If Ky is our future, thats great. I think he's going to be very good. But unless you have some different colored sunglasses than me, our chance of winning a title or even advancing, as small as it may seem, diminishes every year with Timmy's age. Pops not going to drink a glass of wine on the plane ride back, and draw up a play for a 21 year old kid that looks like what he is. A hell of a talent, but a 21 year old kid. Remember, as good as he was as a rookie last year, he was non factor against the Thunder when the stakes got high. He needs to be what he is. A complimentary player, that lives off of the opportunities that come within the flow of our current system. Next year, I'm sure Pop will look at how our team is constructed, and plan accordingly. But if you want to advance, based on whatever chance you think we have, we are not going to be putting the ball in anyones hands except Manu, TP, and Timmy at the end of the game, unless it's some kind of set play for an open look. Which, by the way, will probably come from a Manu pass...
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  #38  
Old 05-14-13, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzarector7 View Post
One of our other role players needs to step up, two preferably! It is that simple. This is why we go on those long droughts I mention, O too preditable, ISO starts and they miss their shots! It is as if teams know aht they are going to do, it is probably true since they have done it so long but we had the players then (And youth of our stars) to make it work. We need more than Manu just to step up I agree! Manu is doing alright sides some ill advised pass and some silly TO's, other than that I agree he is doing what he can as a 6th man.

What I miss though is his driving to the rack! He used to be able to do that and draw a foul and get to the line and bury two for us when we needed it ! This jump shooting Manu can't do that anymore. It is not his fault as age hits, but honestly I miss that part of his game the most as it was automatic down the stretch in key games. If we had 75% of that Manu now we win that last game down the stretch. We need Neal or someone else to step up though and hit some shots, no doubt some of our role guys dissapear at the worst damn times.
See Manu needs to grow his hair back out so that he can make the foul calls look more dramatic! Even though at this point of his balding he may look like Kaman used to lol
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