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  #1  
Old 02-28-13, 05:19 PM
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Has Ginobili lost his Star Power?

Has Ginobili lost his Star Power?
Written by David Rountree
Thursday, 28 February 2013 17:38


A couple months away from the playoffs and the Spurs’ star still looks out of sync.

Manu Ginobili has always been a player the Spurs could count on to have big games, but lately the aging star has been rather quiet. His drives to the basket are fewer and farther in between and most of his stats as a whole are down from last season. Coach Popovich has done a good job monitoring Ginobili’s minutes but the star has still had injury issues this season.

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Old 02-28-13, 07:33 PM
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I don't know, but he looked terrible last night.
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Old 02-28-13, 08:58 PM
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I look at his free throws as the main indicator. Manu doesn't have to be in his prime to hit them yet his percentage is declining. To me that indicates that his heart is drifting away from the game with other outside priorities taking his interest. There is nothing wrong with that. That's just the way it is and the Spurs are bringing in new blood in hopes of compensating as much as possible. Someone besides Parker will need to add to the assists off the bench on a consistent basis. Who will it be?
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Old 02-28-13, 10:54 PM
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Manu lost his star power years ago, he's good for a comeback or when you need a spark plug off the bench.

last night he was terrible, but down the stretch everyone was. Parker couldn't score over a taller guy (deja vu from OKC series) and TD got beat up by Jermaine O'Neal. scratch last night's performance as just one game for everyone.
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Old 02-28-13, 11:07 PM
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Seems like every time Manu hits the floor this season I’ve been cringing. The guy has lost everything I loved about his game. Looks good but can’t finish anything. Isn’t his current contract up after this season? I’m about as big a Manu fan as they come but I think it’s about time for him to hang up the sneakers.
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Old 02-28-13, 11:27 PM
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I hate the jump shooting version who jacks up bad threes! I miss the Manu who could drive and draw a foul or finish! I know he is alot older and mileage on him is a given! He has played for so long! His FT's used to be what I counted on at the end of games, he never missed! That part concerns me some. I will give him time and hope he during the playoffs can somewhat be Manu again! If not his ship has sailed and that happens to all. He as a star though like Jose said thats been done a few years, the only thing we can hope is he shows up at the big moments and gives us a spark! Thats all we can ask for now as he is older.
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Old 03-01-13, 03:43 AM
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Many times since the last championship Manu was the star of the team and the team didn't follow. Either Pop didn't follow, taking bad decisions, either the team didn't follow, not playing at the height of the heart he was putting in playoff time (I'm talking of years '08, '09, '10, '11). Then there were also a couple of injuries. But unfortunately many times he was being a freaking star, the conditions around him didn't highlight this. (And it's such a shame that he didn't get that '05 Playoffs MVP which he deserved, just because it's the "finals" MVP and no the "Playoffs" MVP. As he was the motor of that team). Today everyone talks about Tony's team. Maybe this time that Manu is not at his great level but the team is better, he will suddenly appears on the playoffs, let's hope.
Even with all the fan love and the Kobe's statements, Manu hasn't received the recognition he deserves for his career in the NBA.
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Old 03-01-13, 09:50 AM
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Mos'def....we can only hope he can show half of what he's capable of come playoff time. Call me biased, but I beleive Kawhi will more than make up for it (he already has shown he can). He's now IMO part of the big three. Anything we get from Manu on a nightly basis is always a nice addition! The plus is Danny Green/Tiago has stepped up enough to hide Manu's old age. I think he'll come around come playoff time (I think SJax will too!) Just my 2 cents
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  #9  
Old 03-01-13, 11:30 AM
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Used to be whenever it was near the end of the game I wanted to the ball in Manu's hands. He was a 'money' player. But now it seems more and more obvious that he's quickly reaching the end of the road.

He's never going to be what he once was and the best we can hope for in the playoffs is 10-15 minutes of good quality time from him. Anything more than that and I fear he'll continue to break down.

I agree with those who think it's time for Kawhi to be given more and more responsibility at end of games,that's the only way he's going to learn how to deal with the pressure. He seems to have the right personality for the job.

These upcoming playoffs will be important for both Splitter and Green. Neither one of them can afford to disappear under the glare of the bright lights.
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Old 03-01-13, 01:32 PM
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At the beginning of the year I was fine with resigning Manu at the end of the season for 6-8 million per year, but now, I think that is way too much for what he brings. He can't consistently bring his 'A' game, try as he might. Of course, I noticed this 2 years ago and got called a Manu Hater.
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Old 03-01-13, 01:48 PM
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Even with all the fan love and the Kobe's statements, Manu hasn't received the recognition he deserves for his career in the NBA.
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Old 03-01-13, 01:49 PM
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and a month a go, i suggested trade him with blair and/or neal for al jefferson or josh smith... and people called me too ;-)
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Old 03-01-13, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Oberto! View Post
Many times since the last championship Manu was the star of the team and the team didn't follow. Either Pop didn't follow, taking bad decisions, either the team didn't follow, not playing at the height of the heart he was putting in playoff time (I'm talking of years '08, '09, '10, '11). Then there were also a couple of injuries. But unfortunately many times he was being a freaking star, the conditions around him didn't highlight this. (And it's such a shame that he didn't get that '05 Playoffs MVP which he deserved, just because it's the "finals" MVP and no the "Playoffs" MVP. As he was the motor of that team). Today everyone talks about Tony's team. Maybe this time that Manu is not at his great level but the team is better, he will suddenly appears on the playoffs, let's hope.
Even with all the fan love and the Kobe's statements, Manu hasn't received the recognition he deserves for his career in the NBA.
Are you talking about playing those years you mention with heart? He missed the 09 playoffs totally so that year should be out and 011 he was hurt against Memphis as we all know but he tried hard so I give him that (He was great for the broken bone and I still can't believe he played). I agree he was lights out in 05 as well, he could have easily been Finals MVP. Do not sleep on what Tim did that year though, he was still in his prime although with two bad ankles he still suited up and helped them win that title. Manu is not as great as you said now but the team is very good around him, lets just hope he can make some clutch shots or FT's in a playoff run and play a little like the Manu we knew! I don't like the one that sits outside and settles for ugly threes that don't come close to going in, thats the one I fear seeing nowadays because he can't drive like he could.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
At the beginning of the year I was fine with resigning Manu at the end of the season for 6-8 million per year, but now, I think that is way too much for what he brings. He can't consistently bring his 'A' game, try as he might. Of course, I noticed this 2 years ago and got called a Manu Hater.
No you are not a hater, you just tell it like you see it there and yes he is fading and no he is not worth 8 mill a year. I feel he will get a good contract out of respect and what he has done for the organization, but for his current play that is overpaid.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.

Last edited by Rzarector7; 03-01-13 at 01:59 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-01-13, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Oberto! View Post
Even with all the fan love and the Kobe's statements, Manu hasn't received the recognition he deserves for his career in the NBA.
I think he gets plenty. He was a sixth man of the year, has been an all star and everytime they play on TNT you hear Barkley scream his name. You have to consider that Manu was in top form and played an entire playoffs maybe only 3 or 4 of his 10 years in the league. I'd say his last really good season was 2008, and he didn't even play that playoffs.
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Old 03-01-13, 03:54 PM
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Well, this appeared in an Argentine newspaper last Wednesday (so Manu wrote it before the Phoenix game).

Manu's Article

I won't take the time to translate everything (sorry, I'm too lazy for that right now) but the second to last paragraph is what caught my eye about this and this would be a translation of it.

Quote:
In my case, I'm improving, playing it safe, trying not to get close to 30 minutes in a game because when I did that without having a 100% recovery I got hurt again. That the team is playing great is helping a lot for me to take things slowly. I'm feeling a lot better and more confident about myself.
His missed free throws at the end of the game also bothered and worried me, but let's hope this was just a game and he will get back to being close to his old self soon.
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Old 03-01-13, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjm View Post
Well, this appeared in an Argentine newspaper last Wednesday (so Manu wrote it before the Phoenix game).

Manu's Article

I won't take the time to translate everything (sorry, I'm too lazy for that right now) but the second to last paragraph is what caught my eye about this and this would be a translation of it.



His missed free throws at the end of the game also bothered and worried me, but let's hope this was just a game and he will get back to being close to his old self soon.
Well, I can agree with this also. Just when we thought Duncan's career was near it's end, he came back rejuvinated after a summer off and a strong discipline. Maybe the same happens to Manu.
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Old 03-01-13, 04:57 PM
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I was at the coming home game against Phoenix Wednesday and I have to admit, watching Manu on the bench after Pop took him out, Manu was rougher on himself than anything his critics have to say. When you fly with the eagles, you’re bound to hit some turbulence and falter a little. Manu is no dummy, he knows he has fewer game days ahead of him than behind him. Like Pop has said, “Manu is Manu” and he knows his body and his limitations. He won’t make a fool out of himself and he damn well won’t do it in front of the Spurs fans. When it is time, Manu will bow out gracefully and with dignity. Soon, the #20 will forever grace the halls and rafters of the AT&T Center but that day ain’t here yet. Ginobili still has gas in the engine and thread on his wheels and his heart is pumping with desire and he can still contribute to this team’s destiny. The stop sign may be around the corner but Manu is Manu and don’t get him pissed, he just might show the world what he has left to give before season’s end. When you have a winner, you back him to the end and like I said, it ain’t here yet.
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Old 03-01-13, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Oberto! View Post
Many times since the last championship Manu was the star of the team and the team didn't follow. Either Pop didn't follow, taking bad decisions, either the team didn't follow, not playing at the height of the heart he was putting in playoff time (I'm talking of years '08, '09, '10, '11). Then there were also a couple of injuries. But unfortunately many times he was being a freaking star, the conditions around him didn't highlight this. (And it's such a shame that he didn't get that '05 Playoffs MVP which he deserved, just because it's the "finals" MVP and no the "Playoffs" MVP. As he was the motor of that team). Today everyone talks about Tony's team. Maybe this time that Manu is not at his great level but the team is better, he will suddenly appears on the playoffs, let's hope.
Even with all the fan love and the Kobe's statements, Manu hasn't received the recognition he deserves for his career in the NBA.
I agree 1000%.
After TD the star and Spurs' MVP was meant to be Tony Parker, by design of FO and coaching staff. Let's see how far we go next POffs. Better be beyond 1st round after all the hoopla and missed opportunities...Good luck for us winning another championship without Manu Ginobili.
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Wolves' fan: ginobili vs. the wolves is like he's just kind of laughing to himself all game...kind of like he thinks it's cute that they're trying to play basketball.
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Old 03-01-13, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
At the beginning of the year I was fine with resigning Manu at the end of the season for 6-8 million per year, but now, I think that is way too much for what he brings. He can't consistently bring his 'A' game, try as he might. Of course, I noticed this 2 years ago and got called a Manu Hater.
You ARE a Manu hater.
But please, enlighten us with a plan B. Last season has proved that not many in our team can give us the "plus" u need to win a championship or play their best when the chips r down.
Let's comform ourselves with being a great regular season team.
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NO D, NO RING!!!!
With 26 points on 4 of 4 shots from distance in only 20 minutes of PT. Efficient eviceration.
Wolves' fan: ginobili vs. the wolves is like he's just kind of laughing to himself all game...kind of like he thinks it's cute that they're trying to play basketball.
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Old 03-01-13, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
Manu lost his star power years ago, he's good for a comeback or when you need a spark plug off the bench.
Please, define star power to me?
Are we speaking numbers and stats?
Ask any opposite player who they'd rather not play against in the POffs? That's star power :drummer
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NO D, NO RING!!!!
With 26 points on 4 of 4 shots from distance in only 20 minutes of PT. Efficient eviceration.
Wolves' fan: ginobili vs. the wolves is like he's just kind of laughing to himself all game...kind of like he thinks it's cute that they're trying to play basketball.
[email protected]
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  #21  
Old 03-01-13, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzarector7 View Post

No you are not a hater, you just tell it like you see it there and yes he is fading and no he is not worth 8 mill a year. I feel he will get a good contract out of respect and what he has done for the organization, but for his current play that is overpaid.
At the top of my head I can list a few guys that were overpaid and gave us NOTHING, NOTHING while with the Spurs. I didn't hear u speaking money when they were with us. U speak money now about Manu with all the gains Spurs have recieved from a commercial standpoint alone?
Hedo
Jefferson
Mason Jr
Diaw
Bonner
Bogans
Mahinmi
Vaughn
Tolliver
Udoka
And we call ourselves a classy fanbase...I think we r more likely an amnesiac bunch.
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NO D, NO RING!!!!
With 26 points on 4 of 4 shots from distance in only 20 minutes of PT. Efficient eviceration.
Wolves' fan: ginobili vs. the wolves is like he's just kind of laughing to himself all game...kind of like he thinks it's cute that they're trying to play basketball.
[email protected]
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  #22  
Old 03-01-13, 09:34 PM
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15 assists tonight...yeah he's all washed up.
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  #23  
Old 03-01-13, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1gdon View Post
15 assists tonight...yeah he's all washed up.
Yup...over and done :drummer
Totally star dust
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NO D, NO RING!!!!
With 26 points on 4 of 4 shots from distance in only 20 minutes of PT. Efficient eviceration.
Wolves' fan: ginobili vs. the wolves is like he's just kind of laughing to himself all game...kind of like he thinks it's cute that they're trying to play basketball.
[email protected]
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  #24  
Old 03-02-13, 11:20 AM
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Manu was great last night and it was good to see. In part even if he had a little bit left a part of me hopes he decides to retire at the end of the season and can move on to other things. I hate watching his career end like this with him becoming so injury prone and struggling coming back to get into any kind of rhythm. I don't want him to wait until he has nothing left. It's been a wonderful 11 years and it's going to be sad when we can't watch him anymore though. I'm going to have to go back and watch some of his amazing highlights . I kind of agree that Manu hasn't gotten enough credit. One thing I've been wondering is why is it when the Spurs don't win a championship during these years it's always blamed on Manu? If he's only a Sixth man on this team, shouldn't Tim and Tony be able to carry this team without him? It's not like he's the MVP on this team but people expect him to carry the Spurs to a championship and when they don't the blame always lands on Manu. When they do win a championship it's always Tim or Tony's team. Oh and in 2005, yes Tim deserved to be Finals MVP but if Manu didn't elevate his game starting from the Denver series where Pop did that crazy little experiment after loosing to them to stick Manu on the bench in the first place I don't know if we would've gotten to the Finals in the first place.
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Old 03-02-13, 12:42 PM
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Dang it all, I may have to re-evaluate my previous stance

"1: Manu Ginobili is averaging 12.3 points, 3.7 rebounds and 4.3 assists in 23.3 minutes per game. The only player in NBA history to hit those levels in the same season while averaging fewer than 24 minutes is … Ginobili last season."

Marc Stein Weekend Dime
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  #26  
Old 03-02-13, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATHENEA View Post
At the top of my head I can list a few guys that were overpaid and gave us NOTHING, NOTHING while with the Spurs. I didn't hear u speaking money when they were with us. U speak money now about Manu with all the gains Spurs have recieved from a commercial standpoint alone?
Hedo
Jefferson
Mason Jr
Diaw
Bonner
Bogans
Mahinmi
Vaughn
Tolliver
Udoka
And we call ourselves a classy fanbase...I think we r more likely an amnesiac bunch.
I did not speak at all of Jefferson, never liked the dude and didn't care if he made a penny a game I wanted him off the team. Hedo? I was pissed they let Jax go and skimped on the offer to him! That alone pissed me off and Hedon't we won't go there either. The others made money but not near what Manu is making, Bonner? You don't hear me diss Bonner? I do speak on that and often. Ian, Bogans, Vaughn, Tolliver etc. did not make much money, they were overpaid because they were bad here in a sense but they hardly broke the bank.


I like Manu and said he would get a good contract out of respect for what he has done for the organization, overpaid for his play now but thats what you get when you have flat out given your all for a team and you deserve all the respect and money they give you. I want him back here, just hope he has some left in his tank by the time we get to the playoffs! He brought it quite a few games last year, no doubt he will again.

I hope his free throws improve at the end of the games and I know they will, just hope he stops the crazy threes out of the flow of the game because that Manu makes me cringe (When he is off anyways, no need to force the issue there). Other than that he is Manu and I hope to see 75% of the old Manu in the playoffs, hell that would be enough to get us alot further because lets be honest if he is not there for a run we are not really going to go anywhere relying on Green or Neal at the end of games!
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #27  
Old 03-03-13, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulce View Post
Has Ginobili lost his Star Power?
Written by David Rountree
Thursday, 28 February 2013 17:38


A couple months away from the playoffs and the Spurs’ star still looks out of sync.

Manu Ginobili has always been a player the Spurs could count on to have big games, but lately the aging star has been rather quiet. His drives to the basket are fewer and farther in between and most of his stats as a whole are down from last season. Coach Popovich has done a good job monitoring Ginobili’s minutes but the star has still had injury issues this season.

READ MORE AT MVPTEXAS.COM
Lemme see...
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NO D, NO RING!!!!
With 26 points on 4 of 4 shots from distance in only 20 minutes of PT. Efficient eviceration.
Wolves' fan: ginobili vs. the wolves is like he's just kind of laughing to himself all game...kind of like he thinks it's cute that they're trying to play basketball.
[email protected]
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Old 03-03-13, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Rzarector7 View Post
I like Manu and said he would get a good contract out of respect for what he has done for the organization, overpaid for his play now but thats what you get when you have flat out given your all for a team and you deserve all the respect and money they give you. I want him back here, just hope he has some left in his tank by the time we get to the playoffs! He brought it quite a few games last year, no doubt he will again.

I hope his free throws improve at the end of the games and I know they will, just hope he stops the crazy threes out of the flow of the game because that Manu makes me cringe (When he is off anyways, no need to force the issue there). Other than that he is Manu and I hope to see 75% of the old Manu in the playoffs, hell that would be enough to get us alot further because lets be honest if he is not there for a run we are not really going to go anywhere relying on Green or Neal at the end of games!
OK...let's see how it goes next gm...
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  #29  
Old 03-03-13, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ATHENEA View Post
OK...let's see how it goes next gm...
Just watched him play tonight vs Pistons...damn he sucked out there. Team was lucky to eek out a win in spite of Manu's lousy performance.
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  #30  
Old 03-03-13, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATHENEA View Post
OK...let's see how it goes next gm...
I don't go by game to game, I said I will give him time and one game doesn't make you a star again Ath as much as I like Manu. I want him to improve more and more each week, thats something as a SPURS fan I really want! I don't care about individual things though like most I really just want to see the team win and don't get caught up in all of that other stuff.

Is he a star still? No not this year nor last (Star meaning ALL STAR no slight), but I still will take 75% of the Manu we saw before in his prime, shoot I would take 50% of that and smile! Now lets hope he goes out and helps us get wins now that Tony is out, God knows we will need him.

BTW threes falling and 6-6 tonight in the first half, damn thats huge! I wish I saw the game fully and got ot see that! I know he will step up now and play his ass OFF! I know they want that #1 seed and with Tony being out Manu stepping up along with Kawhi etc. is the only way we get that! GO SPURS!
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.

Last edited by Rzarector7; 03-03-13 at 11:55 PM.
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  #31  
Old 03-03-13, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ATHENEA View Post
Lemme see...
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  #32  
Old 03-05-13, 03:11 PM
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No he has not! Give him time
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  #33  
Old 03-05-13, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by spurduncan21 View Post
No he has not! Give him time
We do have time, so Tony being out it's time to see more of him and what he has got. If he can get into a rhythm before the playoffs thats a huge PLUS for the team.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #34  
Old 03-06-13, 10:38 PM
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Well well well. Someone is waking up and playing excellent again right when we need him! Making plays all over. Those who thought he was done wake up! I thought he was in a huge slump and quetioned how much he had left after those bad games, seems he is feeling alot better and still can a very big playmaker for the team.

KEEP IT UP! Forget being an all star we just need him to be a key part of our team for a run, any run will have to feature him.
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #35  
Old 03-07-13, 08:19 AM
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Just when I'm ready to put that last pile of dirt on his grave, he crawls back out. He's like a zombie, but a zombie with really good court vision.
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  #36  
Old 03-07-13, 08:32 AM
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He's probably been reading this thread and got pissed when he felt the dirt hit his head. But I have to agree, besides that 3rd eye, Manu must have a 4th and 5th eye somewhere. I'll always wonder if Manu would have been a good baseball pitcher with that arm.
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  #37  
Old 03-07-13, 09:04 AM
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hahahaha yeahhh Uwe and alh, because those crazy behind the back passing, i can imagine where is the 4th or 5th eye LOLOL


btw... i really love eat crown on this one!!!!!!! yumi yumi!!!! yeahhhh!
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  #38  
Old 03-07-13, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzarector7 View Post
Well well well. Someone is waking up and playing excellent again right when we need him! Making plays all over. Those who thought he was done wake up! I thought he was in a huge slump and quetioned how much he had left after those bad games, seems he is feeling alot better and still can a very big playmaker for the team.

KEEP IT UP! Forget being an all star we just need him to be a key part of our team for a run, any run will have to feature him.
Need Manu to continue producing at this level with TP, but also when he returns. With the improvement displayed by Splitter, Green and most importantly Kawhi, our team is much better IMO than last year whereas all the other teams are the same (Miami added Lewis and Allen) and even worse (OKC losing Harden). Fact is we're top 5 in defense and are number 1 in assists. We need to continue grinding on D and #5 will be ours people
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  #39  
Old 03-07-13, 10:46 AM
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^^^ We need a healthy roster, period. Ginobili still has enough mojo, or cojones or Mojones to get us through a couple tough series--but Miami IS BETTER than last year; LBJ is video-game good this year, and adding Jesus Shuttlesworth gives the Heat a true inside-out threat that you can't sag off of.
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  #40  
Old 03-07-13, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurduncan21 View Post
Need Manu to continue producing at this level with TP, but also when he returns. With the improvement displayed by Splitter, Green and most importantly Kawhi, our team is much better IMO than last year whereas all the other teams are the same (Miami added Lewis and Allen) and even worse (OKC losing Harden). Fact is we're top 5 in defense and are number 1 in assists. We need to continue grinding on D and #5 will be ours people
Oh yeah, would love to see that #5 finally.
__________________
Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #41  
Old 03-07-13, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
Just when I'm ready to put that last pile of dirt on his grave, he crawls back out. He's like a zombie, but a zombie with really good court vision.
Owned
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NO D, NO RING!!!!
With 26 points on 4 of 4 shots from distance in only 20 minutes of PT. Efficient eviceration.
Wolves' fan: ginobili vs. the wolves is like he's just kind of laughing to himself all game...kind of like he thinks it's cute that they're trying to play basketball.
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  #42  
Old 03-07-13, 11:11 PM
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