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-   -   Jefferson is a post presence.... (http://www.spursreport.com/forums/spurs-nba-fan-feedback/118608-jefferson-post-presence.html)

MRJONESIII 02-09-13 10:29 AM

Jefferson is a post presence....
 
Is the reason why I take him over Tiago. Without someone down low to command a double team Tony and everyone else must work way to hard to get shots. Tiago thrives in pick and roll and has a subpar post game, no mid range game so he can be a liability. His D is much improved but without those skills, he's not going to hurt many teams in the playoffs without TD and Manu. Jefferson would be the polar opposite. Can take over the paint in Duncans absence, God forbid, but Big Al is a beast! And when was the last time he played on a great team with great players? He compliments all our other bigs very well. Just would like to keep Splitter, I love his hustle and competitiveness but give me Jefferson any day of the week!

choppsboy 02-09-13 11:44 AM

^^^^^ Offense is not our problem. The question is, is he a post presence on defense. From a lot of what I am reading, he isn't significantly better than Tiago in terms of post defense.

MichaelWi101 02-09-13 12:36 PM

Jefferson is not now nor has he ever been a force on defense. The Spurs offense is humming along fine (forget about last night in Detroit), I can't see the FO messing with this team until season's end; unless it's to trade Blair and maybe Neal before the deadline for future help.

Outside of some of the espn 'experts' who haven't watched the Spurs play, a lot of folks around the country are beginning to notice that the Spurs as currently constructed are one of, if not the best and deepest teams in the west and maybe the league.

Al Jefferson wouldn't be a player who would put them over the top, now Kobe? maybe...

MRJONESIII 02-09-13 02:15 PM

Yeah, and we were the best team last year this time and 10 games into the playoffs....?

Jose_TheGenius 02-09-13 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choppsboy (Post 1291963)
^^^^^ Offense is not our problem. The question is, is he a post presence on defense. From a lot of what I am reading, he isn't significantly better than Tiago in terms of post defense.

offense isn't the problem, but it was against the Thunder last season. what happens when we meet a team that can slow down the Spurs' offense like OKC did? we can't dump the ball in the post to TD and worse with Tiago since he can't play like that. Jefferson would help the Spurs incorporate two dimensions on offense.

on the defensive side, how do they both compare? Tiago isn't a shot blocker and doesn't rebound as well as Jefferson either. he's got quick feet, but he's extremely soft on help defense while it appears he's better on man defense.

Jefferson would help vs. Memphis and Tiago's done well vs. them this year, but Jefferson in the paint protecting the rim would be a vast improvement compared to Splitter in the paint.

also take this into account: Jefferson is likely to get double teamed in the post. that would open up shots for Jackson, Ginobili, Diaw, etc. Unlike other years where we've all admitted Bonner doesn't do well because there's no inside presence taking attention from the defense, Al Jefferson would change that.

just like MRJONESIII is saying and i'll add on to it: Splitter is a good player this year mostly because he's playing off other guys like Parker and Ginobili. Jefferson is a player who can play off of other players and can depend on his own skills if the defense commands it. There's no way Tiago can create his own shot like Jefferson can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 (Post 1291965)
Jefferson is not now nor has he ever been a force on defense. The Spurs offense is humming along fine (forget about last night in Detroit), I can't see the FO messing with this team until season's end; unless it's to trade Blair and maybe Neal before the deadline for future help.

Outside of some of the espn 'experts' who haven't watched the Spurs play, a lot of folks around the country are beginning to notice that the Spurs as currently constructed are one of, if not the best and deepest teams in the west and maybe the league.

Al Jefferson wouldn't be a player who would put them over the top, now Kobe? maybe...

you watch the game last night? Jefferson was a really good defensive presence. he's a great defender in certain situations, just like Duncan. you don't want to put TD on a pick and roll defensively, neither Jefferson. he's a balanced player overall.

MRJONESIII 02-09-13 07:21 PM

Thank you Jose. That's all I was saying, if TD was down, Jefferson is a very capable substitute. Only one thing was wrong with your reply... Stephen Jackson would have to be part of the trade for the salary matching purposes. Other than that.... You're spot on with what I'm thinking. How often would we be able to grab a player of Jefferson caliber for what we may have to give up? Plus we have ex-Spurs people in Utahs' office. But I really think they would like Bonner instead of Splitter, plus Jackson and Mills to spread the floor for they're post dominate bigs. They'd be getting a rugged SF, floor spacing forward and a high energy pg who can shot. But hey, this might all just be wishful thinking.

Jose_TheGenius 02-09-13 08:02 PM

you know know MRJONESIII, we could throw in Manu instead of Jax

*gets ready to run from angry mob*

b1gdon 02-09-13 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius (Post 1291977)
you know know MRJONESIII, we could throw in Manu instead of Jax

*gets ready to run from angry mob*

except Manu is the only player other than Parker who can run this offense effectively.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hTX6ulE_Du8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MRJONESIII 02-09-13 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius (Post 1291977)
you know know MRJONESIII, we could throw in Manu instead of Jax

*gets ready to run from angry mob*

If you did that, I'd want Gordon Hayward and Jeremy Evans and a 1st rounder. But we both know Manu is a staple.

JuanCaca 02-10-13 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius (Post 1291977)
you know know MRJONESIII, we could throw in Manu instead of Jax *gets ready to run from angry mob*

this is what i was saying in the other thread.. manu is 14M expiring contract... spurs was doing well anyway without him... and we keep rugged natural sf to throw at durant lebron,etc...

Kager 02-10-13 12:30 AM

Tiago may not b at the level of Jefferson low post wise but when he has got it in the post he has shown more moves than the average centre he does keep the opposite centre entertained.

The thing is Pops system seems to require a moving centre rather than one anchored to the post... At the start of each set the big man rolls to the top collects the ball while everyone moves behind setting screens all over the shop, then he rolls down and back up to help the ball handler and rolls.

We do not set up the post and wings and go inside out anymore so Tiago doesn't have the licence to develop that like Al has.

And everyone needs to say one or the other... Utah doesn't want Tiago, they are clearing Al because they have their big men setup

Jose_TheGenius 02-10-13 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kager (Post 1291983)
The thing is Pops system seems to require a moving centre rather than one anchored to the post... At the start of each set the big man rolls to the top collects the ball while everyone moves behind setting screens all over the shop, then he rolls down and back up to help the ball handler and rolls.

We do not set up the post and wings and go inside out anymore so Tiago doesn't have the licence to develop that like Al has.

And everyone needs to say one or the other... Utah doesn't want Tiago, they are clearing Al because they have their big men setup

Duncan can pick and roll effectively (i.e. do everything Tiago does), he just doesn't because Tiago's man (or Blair's in earlier situations) would dare them to shoot so you'd have two big men in the paint waiting on the pick and roll. that's the reason why Duncan worked well with McDyess even when the Spurs ran because Dice had a mid range jumper. now Duncan had to get one of those to make Blair or Splitter work.

the Jazz have 3 big men that are (or will be) earning a lot of money in the future. no way they can keep those 3 guys, not with this CBA.

Kager 02-10-13 04:17 PM

Duncan got a mid range jumper to prolong his career, that thing is now money and keeps guy up on him to the point where he can drive as well. If he was still in the post the whole game pushing and banging against bulkier players his knees would be shot.

But again we are not looking at whether we have Tiago or Al, we would have both as Utah does not want a big man back when they are trading because they want their young bigs to play more. They will be looking for 3 pt help and some ball handling so if it happened we would have TD and Al starting with Tiago on first drop.

MRJONESIII 02-10-13 04:40 PM

If.... If this happens to happen, is it Jackson/Patty, Joseph or Nando and a Lobrek throw in? If Nando goes, Jefferson gets his number. But I thought Patty can reject a trade with his bird rights?

Jose_TheGenius 02-10-13 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kager (Post 1292019)
Duncan got a mid range jumper to prolong his career, that thing is now money and keeps guy up on him to the point where he can drive as well. If he was still in the post the whole game pushing and banging against bulkier players his knees would be shot.

But again we are not looking at whether we have Tiago or Al, we would have both as Utah does not want a big man back when they are trading because they want their young bigs to play more. They will be looking for 3 pt help and some ball handling so if it happened we would have TD and Al starting with Tiago on first drop.

it was to prolong his career so Tiago can play his game, along with Blair. if he can't back down anymore and the other guys can't shoot, he'd be forced to retire. he has to be effective and that also means the other guys have to be able to play with him.

it doesn't matter if we give them Tiago for the future if Jefferson is the better player right now. our mission is to win another title with Duncan, not win another title in 10 years. if we meet the Jazz in the playoffs, it'll be Tiago vs. Jefferson in the post and there's no question about who'd win that one.

there's no bad trade for the Spurs if we get Jefferson back.

i only said Manu because he's been injured the majority of the time.

b1gdon 02-10-13 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius (Post 1292027)
it was to prolong his career so Tiago can play his game, along with Blair. if he can't back down anymore and the other guys can't shoot, he'd be forced to retire. he has to be effective and that also means the other guys have to be able to play with him.

it doesn't matter if we give them Tiago for the future if Jefferson is the better player right now. our mission is to win another title with Duncan, not win another title in 10 years. if we meet the Jazz in the playoffs, it'll be Tiago vs. Jefferson in the post and there's no question about who'd win that one.

there's no bad trade for the Spurs if we get Jefferson back.

i only said Manu because he's been injured the majority of the time.

I don't think this team could win in the playoffs without Manu because when Parker sits, the offense is downright awful. That is fine in the regular season when you are playing scrub teams night after night, but against the best in the league, the Spurs can't afford to have the offense got to crap for the 10 minutes Parker needs to rest. If, and that is a big hypothetical IF, the Spurs were to trade Manu, they would have to get back someone who could run the offense when Parker sits.

Excuse me, I have to go vomit now after even entertaining the hypothetical suggestion that the Spurs trade Manu.

Jose_TheGenius 02-10-13 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1gdon (Post 1292030)
I don't think this team could win in the playoffs without Manu because when Parker sits, the offense is downright awful. That is fine in the regular season when you are playing scrub teams night after night, but against the best in the league, the Spurs can't afford to have the offense got to crap for the 10 minutes Parker needs to rest. If, and that is a big hypothetical IF, the Spurs were to trade Manu, they would have to get back someone who could run the offense when Parker sits.

Excuse me, I have to go vomit now after even entertaining the hypothetical suggestion that the Spurs trade Manu.

Jefferson in the paint in an inside out game would be suffice. TP's going to average around 35mpg in the playoffs anyway unless there's blowouts

Uwe Blab 02-11-13 12:40 AM

It's funny that there are so many people now throwing Manu into trade scenarios. I told people this would happen when he first signed his current contract. Heck, I was ready to trade before extending. It's been this way EVERY year. And if you think we need a healthy Manu to win, he was actually healthy last year for the playoffs. Point is, he's expendable too. Has been for three years.

JuanCaca 02-11-13 11:58 AM

3 years a go SAS didnt have the motion offense that feature now... was only parker dribbling until 5 seconds to try a shot or drive to the rim... same with manu... and rest of team was parking in the perimeter

...manu is more expendable now due age/better team...


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