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td4mvp2k 01-31-13 10:01 PM

Spurs Regret Hollinger!
 
The Memphis Grizzlies have completed two cost-saving trades over the past few weeks, with their trade of Rudy Gay being the most notable.

The Grizzlies issued a statement on the trade late Wednesday, and embarrassingly had "general manager Chris Wallace" throw out the obligatory organizational quotes on the deal. Only, Wallace had nothing to do with the trade. Nothing. He isn't making calls to teams. He isn't consulted by the new regime. He's waiting until they agree on the terms of his inevitable parting. So, Pera and new CEO Jason Levien take an unpopular trade and assign it to Wallace in the news release.

CEO Jason Levien is operating largely based on the recommendations of statistician and former media member John Hollinger.

The San Antonio Spurs formerly had Hollinger on their payroll as a consultant and regretfully took his advice to sign Jackie Butler. The Spurs atoned for the mistake by trading away the draft rights to Luis Scola, along with Butler.

Adrian Wojnarowski/Yahoo! Sports

SleepyAdamII 01-31-13 10:05 PM

How the hell was that atonement ?
Quote:

The San Antonio Spurs formerly had Hollinger on their payroll as a consultant and regretfully took his advice to sign Jackie Butler. The Spurs atoned for the mistake by trading away the draft rights to Luis Scola, along with Butler.

td4mvp2k 01-31-13 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyAdamII (Post 1291387)
How the hell was that atonement ?

They got Butler out.

SleepyAdamII 01-31-13 10:25 PM

it was his brilliant idea to sign him...allegedly..and made a bad choice even worse by sacrificing Scola. Not to get back into that diatribe.

I honestly had no idea the Spurs had dealt with him as a consultant.

td4mvp2k 01-31-13 10:34 PM

Ya I didnt want it but Butler had to go and Scola was a ?

SleepyAdamII 01-31-13 10:47 PM

I always had a feeling Butler was a Pop decision, seeing as he was a Knick under Larry Brown. I'm still surprised the Spurs consulted with John Hollinger, you'd a thought we would have known this.


also that kinda sucks they pinned the this move on the previous GM

Jose_TheGenius 01-31-13 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyAdamII (Post 1291393)
I always had a feeling Butler was a Pop decision, seeing as he was a Knick under Larry Brown. I'm still surprised the Spurs consulted with John Hollinger, you'd a thought we would have known this.


also that kinda sucks they pinned the this move on the previous GM

people buy into his numbers way too much. he's a good guy to break down games and what teams do together, individually, etc. but numbers can't replace basketball savvy that coaches and other people have.

i can probably bet Hollinger wanted Prince in return for Gay because of some of his numbers with the Pistons. he's having a really good year, but the Pistons aren't a good team and he wouldn't play the same alongside different players and have the same numbers.

you look at the Jackie Butler brain fart and think about everything else after and you can tell the Spurs went with what needs the team lack and they got them. a great example on how numbers don't tell the story as far as coaching is Richard Jefferson. before RJ was a Spur, he put up good numbers as a member of the Bucks and never duplicated them on a better team.

for Grizz fans, they should be worried about how much influence the guy actually has in the front office.

SleepyAdamII 01-31-13 11:20 PM

One could say here is the NBA "money ball", stats and numbers trying to build teams on strictly quantifiable merit, and missing out on guys who can "hustle" or the ever mythologized "intangibles"

I also heard they shipped out Wayne Ellington, he gave the spurs some problems. As a Spurs fan , I think the Grizz have taken themselves out of the immediate contention.

td4mvp2k 01-31-13 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyAdamII (Post 1291398)
I also heard they shipped out Wayne Ellington, he gave the spurs some problems.

Ha thats what I said about that trade. Wasnt good for them trading him.

SleepyAdamII 01-31-13 11:34 PM

Speights too... the only guy I really worry about is Arthur.

td4mvp2k 01-31-13 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyAdamII (Post 1291400)
Speights too... the only guy I really worry about is Arthur.

Wouldnt it be good if they could trade Blair and Bonner for a Derrick Willams who could play a Arthur or Ibaka/Durant?

Guapo 01-31-13 11:45 PM

John Friggin' Hollinger calling shots in San Antonio!?

W T F!

KAD 02-01-13 09:25 AM

wow I wondered hard what was the Rudy Gay trade all about. The Grizz had the bst record in the league for some time and looked awfully solid in all areas and now they are sinking fast. And its Hollinger's advice and now we understand the Spurs ridiculously consulted this nut!!!!! Thank God they bailed on him quickly as teh Grizz sadly will do!

bills0 02-01-13 08:44 PM

Quote:

The San Antonio Spurs formerly had Hollinger on their payroll as a consultant and regretfully took his advice to sign Jackie Butler.
I would take this with a grain of salt. I remember at the time it was stated that the Spurs also consulted Larry Brown as to what he thought. Brown had coached Butler at New York and Pop and he were close. It was stated that Brown also recommended Butler.

Also, I remember that Hollinger's opinion of Butler was not just something he advised the Spurs on. He published his opinion of Butler on his ESPN site for anyone to read. I saw it there before the Spurs made an offer to Butler. Once the offer was made I wondered at the time if the Spurs were made aware of Butler thought Hollinger. I did not know that Hollinger was on the Spurs payroll as a consultant, if in fact this is true.

One thing I do remember clearly about Hollinger's ESPN article is his warning that Butler's sterling statistics were based on a small sample size because he had not played a lot of minutes at New York.

When the Butler experiment turned out so badly I thought if anyone was to blame for mis-advising the Spurs it was Brown. It never occurred to me to blame Hollinger because anyone who knows anything about statistics know how hazardous it is to base conclusions on a small sample. In fact, I thought this is why the Spurs consulted Brown, to verify or refute the statistical conclusion with someone who had first hand knowledge of Butler's game.

bills0 02-01-13 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAD (Post 1291416)
wow I wondered hard what was the Rudy Gay trade all about. The Grizz had the bst record in the league for some time and looked awfully solid in all areas and now they are sinking fast.

The Rudy Gay trade does not demand any advanced statistics to understand.

Gay had a salary of $16M. Higher than any Spur and about the same as Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, and Zach Randolph, and more than guys like Kevin Love, Tyson Chandler, and Andre Iguodala. Gay was overpaid, Memphis was over the cap, and they were still not where they needed to be to compete in the playoffs with the Thunder, Clippers, and Spurs.

bills0 02-01-13 09:46 PM

Here is a more detailed account of what the Grizzlies were up to with the Rudy Gay trade.

How the Grizzlies Cleared Over $16 Million | HOOPSWORLD | Basketball News & NBA Rumors

bills0 02-01-13 10:02 PM

An informative article about the use of statistics in the NBA.

HoopsHype - Memphis committed to analytics


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