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Old 01-26-13, 12:16 AM
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Anyone else confused on why

Coach Bud put Baynes in, a rookie who's never played in the NBA from overseas, a pressure situation for inbounding the ball at an away game while the game could still be decided?

i know Baynes is at fault for the pass, but at the same time he's never played with those guys except Mills. he doesn't know most of their tendencies or how they like passes, how they end to cut to the basket, etc.

just seemed odd he'd try that. i can honestly say Pop would've never done that or even thought about it. Bud is a newbie too at head coaching in an NBA game, so he's not perfectly comfortable either. i was just weirded out how he also scolded Baynes, like he was supposed to know what exactly to do on a play where the kid is most likely nervous as hell. hope it's not a confidence breaker either.
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Old 01-26-13, 12:43 AM
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I know Baynes was confused but I think Bud wants to see what he can do.

Last edited by td4mvp2k; 01-26-13 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 01-26-13, 01:46 AM
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Good point Jose!

Pop would have never done this that is for sure.

Coach Bud was NOT thinking when he did this IMO. Very un-Spurs Coaching moment like.... Oh well now let's hope Coach Bud never does this mistake again. Last few minutes could be killers and Spurs got a little of luck and dodged two bullets on the last two games one at home and one on the road. Oh Boy!

However, although Baynes looked horrible out there, I don't agree with you that Baynes is at any fault cause that game was over by the middle of the 4th as Spurs went on that run....One would think the Spurs would take care of the ball and play tough D till the end but alas that was not the case......
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Old 01-26-13, 03:28 AM
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It happed to turn into an in-bound situation after a basket. No big deal. Hundreds of those during a game, but the pressure and Gary Neal's unexpected momentum/movement caused the turnover.

Its not like Bud drew it up that way or something, geez!
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Old 01-26-13, 07:25 AM
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There's no doubt in my feeble mind that Coach Bud had heard from Pop after the game was over.
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Old 01-26-13, 08:56 AM
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I understand wanting to get Baynes some playing time, but that wasn't the spot for it.

Crowd was going crazy, the mavs were busting their butts all over the floor and you're going to put the ball in the hands of a guy whose been with the team and in the NBA for all of what 2 days? And it's under the other team's basket.

No matter how you slice it,that was a mistake on Bud's part.
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Old 01-26-13, 09:06 AM
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I just think Baynes sucks. I mean, he can't even inbound the ball. We better not trade away Blair because of this dude!
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Old 01-26-13, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guapo View Post
It happed to turn into an in-bound situation after a basket. No big deal. Hundreds of those during a game, but the pressure and Gary Neal's unexpected momentum/movement caused the turnover.

Its not like Bud drew it up that way or something, geez!
i think that's also why you don't do it since he doesn't know Neal's tendencies, but Bud did go after Baynes and not Neal on it.

you can tell he didn't draw it up either. on a full court press, you don't want 3 or more of your players so close together, that helps the defense bring in a huge amount of pressure on the inbounder and the rest of the players. it didn't seem to have any coaching at all or them being spread out (like a real play would).

also, why even have Baynes in there to start with? Splitter and Diaw are way better passes than Baynes on the team. why Bud didn't have either Splitter/Diaw inbounding with Parker/Ginobili/Jackson/Green or Mills (for speed) out there is beyond me.
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Old 01-26-13, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 View Post
I understand wanting to get Baynes some playing time, but that wasn't the spot for it.

Crowd was going crazy, the mavs were busting their butts all over the floor and you're going to put the ball in the hands of a guy whose been with the team and in the NBA for all of what 2 days? And it's under the other team's basket.

No matter how you slice it,that was a mistake on Bud's part.
great point! he was a new guy with a hostile away crowd and you can believe the kid was nervous as heck already.

even at a home game it'd be a bad decision, but the pressure wouldn't be mounting as much as away at a rival's arena.
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Old 01-26-13, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
i think that's also why you don't do it since he doesn't know Neal's tendencies, but Bud did go after Baynes and not Neal on it.

you can tell he didn't draw it up either. on a full court press, you don't want 3 or more of your players so close together, that helps the defense bring in a huge amount of pressure on the inbounder and the rest of the players. it didn't seem to have any coaching at all or them being spread out (like a real play would).

also, why even have Baynes in there to start with? Splitter and Diaw are way better passes than Baynes on the team. why Bud didn't have either Splitter/Diaw inbounding with Parker/Ginobili/Jackson/Green or Mills (for speed) out there is beyond me.
Your acting like this guy is some 16 year old kid the Spurs signed as part of some promotional contest to sit on the Spurs bench and possibly play garbage time, then thrust into a life or death situation. He's 26 years old and has been playing pro ball in Europe and the Olympics for 4 years in addition to college ball at Wash State with two Tournament appearances (sweet 16 in 2008 as starter).

He had two choices to make...accurate pass to a cutting Neal or call a timeout. He should have called a timeout. It ain't on the coaching staff, it is on Baynes.

But this of course is just part of the natural progression of the Spurs fan's opinion brand new big men...Next David Robinson ready to start at once, to doe eyed rookie just needing to learn the Spurs system, to finally slacker goat who is the reason the Spurs didn't win a championship. It took 41 seconds to make the first step, I hope the second downgrade doesn't come just as quick.

Also, perhaps it is good we got this out of the way early so he can go down to Austin and start training to eventually perhaps sit at the end of the bench come playoff time.

Last edited by b1gdon; 01-26-13 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 01-26-13, 12:54 PM
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Just to clear up the record, Baynes went into the game with 44 seconds left and the Spurs up 12. He stayed in the game after Blair stepped out of bounds with 6 seconds left and the Spurs up 9. He was subbed out after the turnover and the lead was cut to 4 with two seconds left. I can't really see anything wrong with the substitution pattern here.
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Old 01-26-13, 01:46 PM
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I completely disagree with this being wrong.

Even when the ball he passed in bounds was stolen there would have to be another mistake for the game to be in jeopardy.

Also, Neal was pushed out of the way when he passes it.
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Old 01-26-13, 03:41 PM
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The Spurs were up a bunch of points but I'm not the biggest Coach Bud fan either. I would have been more agressive to slit their throat. Dallas didn't quit. That was the main issue to me not the players on the floor. Carlisle coached to the last second. Bud didn't.
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Old 01-26-13, 04:00 PM
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If I remember right, it looked like Blair or someone, I cant remember who was on the floor at the time, went to try to grab the ball to inbound it but Baynes got there first, possibly in haste, to try to imbound the ball before the defense was set which possibly shows his quick thinking yet poor execution. Anyone remember what I'm talking about?
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Old 01-26-13, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1gdon View Post
Just to clear up the record, Baynes went into the game with 44 seconds left and the Spurs up 12. He stayed in the game after Blair stepped out of bounds with 6 seconds left and the Spurs up 9. He was subbed out after the turnover and the lead was cut to 4 with two seconds left. I can't really see anything wrong with the substitution pattern here.
if it was out of reach for the Mavs, Bud doesn't call a timeout and substitute Baynes out. you have another sequence where they turn it over and you possibly have a 4 point play somewhere (or 3 point play w/ missing the FT and they put it back in). 2 seconds is a lifetime in the NBA, all they need is .4 to get a shot up.

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Originally Posted by disciple View Post
I completely disagree with this being wrong.

Even when the ball he passed in bounds was stolen there would have to be another mistake for the game to be in jeopardy.

Also, Neal was pushed out of the way when he passes it.
Neal has 35lbs over Collison, i seriously doubt he could push him out of the way that easily. if the game was sealed, Bud doesn't need to spend a timeout to get Green in there and yell at Baynes on national TV.

common sense tells coaches to ease in a new player in a blow out whether you're winning or losing, not with 44 seconds. what would be the point of that at an away game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesuspence281 View Post
If I remember right, it looked like Blair or someone, I cant remember who was on the floor at the time, went to try to grab the ball to inbound it but Baynes got there first, possibly in haste, to try to inbound the ball before the defense was set which possibly shows his quick thinking yet poor execution. Anyone remember what I'm talking about?
yeah, which adds to Baynes being nervous. Blair isn't a good inbounder either with his height. with 44 seconds left, it costs you nothing to have ur best FT shooters on the floor up until the other team decides it's out of reach and they're not going to foul or go for a steal.
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Old 01-26-13, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1gdon View Post
Your acting like this guy is some 16 year old kid the Spurs signed as part of some promotional contest to sit on the Spurs bench and possibly play garbage time, then thrust into a life or death situation. He's 26 years old and has been playing pro ball in Europe and the Olympics for 4 years in addition to college ball at Wash State with two Tournament appearances (sweet 16 in 2008 as starter).
the guy is 26 years old with no NBA experience coming in to a game that's at a heated rival's homecourt on national television, you're telling me he's not supposed to be nervous?

Olympics are all well and good, but he's repping his country. the NBA is the big time and this kid was with a new team and teammates he's never played with before. we're talking nerves in a new situation with a new team he's trying to impress who's playing him millions of dollars, not skill. you can't downplay pressure.

i'm more questioning Bud's decision to put him in there when it wouldn't benefit him any and got him a scolding from a guy who was the one who made the decision in the first place.
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Old 01-26-13, 06:04 PM
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Not you Jose but I find it sad how some are so quick to jump all over the new guy.
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Old 01-26-13, 06:24 PM
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Blame Bud not Aron
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Old 01-26-13, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
the guy is 26 years old with no NBA experience coming in to a game that's at a heated rival's homecourt on national television, you're telling me he's not supposed to be nervous?

Olympics are all well and good, but he's repping his country. the NBA is the big time and this kid was with a new team and teammates he's never played with before. we're talking nerves in a new situation with a new team he's trying to impress who's playing him millions of dollars, not skill. you can't downplay pressure.

i'm more questioning Bud's decision to put him in there when it wouldn't benefit him any and got him a scolding from a guy who was the one who made the decision in the first place.
The best way to learn how to do something is to practice it and if he's having trouble handling the pressure of making an inbound pass with your team up 6 and 4 seconds left in the regular season, then he clearly needs the work. Better start learning how to deal with it now than in the Western Conference Finals against OKC.

Last edited by b1gdon; 01-26-13 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 01-27-13, 12:05 PM
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I went and watched that end of Dallas game again last night.

The coach Bud was the most one to blame for playing poor hustlers at the end of the game to seal it.

Few seconds before Coach Bud puts Baynes in series of things happened which sparked the Mavs to run on that run.

First that Ball which Carter claims he did not put thru the cylinder and the net and Coach Carlisle got MAD and got the T about THIS started that MONSTER SPARK to the Mavs to run that HARD at the end....

Spurs were just playing only on the offensive end and never bothered to play any more D so that added an extra 4 point to the Mavs. Now the game was already in jeopardy with the Spurs not playing D and poorly executing on the O too to add insult to injury.

Then a Spur throws a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG pass to another Spur there just to LOSE that Freaking ball in Turn Over to add more bonehead mistakes.....

Then Mavs do another few layups so easily....while Spurs players are ummmm watching...

Then Cocch Bud somehow decided to put Baynes in... Then the Mavs really smelled weak Spurs players.....

I saw Baynes decided to inbound it rather hoping Spurs guard could take it and milk the time not knowing how many defenders are around that guard Neal and with that crowd and aggressive arena Neal could not hold on to that ball....

partially Baynes is to blame but who put him through this THE HEAD COACH BUD.

Last night Spurs vs Suns Coach Bud played real good people at the end of the game so we can safely say he learned to seal it now and won't do this again.
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Old 01-28-13, 11:17 AM
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Guess I was watching a completely different game.

As I saw it, Spurs were up by 14 (actually 15 when Leonard made his 2nd FT) with about a minute to play when Carlisle benched their starters and so did Bud. After a 3 by Dallas and a TO by Leonard, Bud gave the chance to the new guy to smell the floor in what was supposed to be garbage time (up by 12 with 45 seconds to play).
Dallas bench played harder in those seconds (Neal TO, Collison 3, Blair TO) to the point of being down by 9 with less than 7 seconds to play.
You would expect at that time that the game is over but for some reason Carlisle decided to call a timeout. So far up to this point, I don't see any reasons for Bud to take Baynes out of the court.
Spurs defense is not good enough and Dallas executes well to score 3 more points.
You are up by 6 with less than 5 seconds to play, the logical thing to do is put the ball in play before the defense is set (or like b1gdon said, call timeout, but that didn't cross my mind as the best thing to do at that momnet in the game since I still believed the game was out of reach). Putting the ball in play quickly is just what Baynes tried to do. It was not a bad play or bad decision (inbound the ball to one of your best FT shooters on the floor at the time), just really poor execution.
At that moment, Bud calls timeout to make Baynes know that poor execution is not acceptable (just like Pop has done with so many players so many times) and subs him to make sure there are no surprises in the last 2 seconds of the game (still being up by 4 and with the ball in the Spurs hands so I would still consider those two seconds as garbage time, but I guess Bud wanted to make sure about it).

This is what I saw and other than some poor execution on Baynes behalf on 1 play of those 40 seconds he was on the floor, I don't see anything that either Baynes or Bud should have done different nor feel confused by what they did.
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Old 01-28-13, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurscrazed View Post
I went and watched that end of Dallas game again last night.

The coach Bud was the most one to blame for playing poor hustlers at the end of the game to seal it.

Few seconds before Coach Bud puts Baynes in series of things happened which sparked the Mavs to run on that run.

First that Ball which Carter claims he did not put thru the cylinder and the net and Coach Carlisle got MAD and got the T about THIS started that MONSTER SPARK to the Mavs to run that HARD at the end....

Spurs were just playing only on the offensive end and never bothered to play any more D so that added an extra 4 point to the Mavs. Now the game was already in jeopardy with the Spurs not playing D and poorly executing on the O too to add insult to injury.

Then a Spur throws a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG pass to another Spur there just to LOSE that Freaking ball in Turn Over to add more bonehead mistakes.....

Then Mavs do another few layups so easily....while Spurs players are ummmm watching...

Then Cocch Bud somehow decided to put Baynes in... Then the Mavs really smelled weak Spurs players.....

I saw Baynes decided to inbound it rather hoping Spurs guard could take it and milk the time not knowing how many defenders are around that guard Neal and with that crowd and aggressive arena Neal could not hold on to that ball....

partially Baynes is to blame but who put him through this THE HEAD COACH BUD.

Last night Spurs vs Suns Coach Bud played real good people at the end of the game so we can safely say he learned to seal it now and won't do this again.
I couldn't agree more. Coach Bud stopped coaching. Rick C. coached to the end.
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Old 01-28-13, 01:55 PM
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How many times have Spurs teams let a team get back in the game under Pop? Quite a few this season alone. And that was with the regular rotation in the game, this was with garbage time guys. It was a learning opportunity for the new guy, and guess what, we learned that he can't inbound. Can't fault anyone for that.
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