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-   -   C Aron Bynes the reason for Tiago's Aggressive play? (http://www.spursreport.com/forums/spurs-nba-fan-feedback/118434-c-aron-bynes-reason-tiagos-aggressive-play.html)

stuffedmushroomz 01-19-13 06:57 PM

C Aron Bynes the reason for Tiago's Aggressive play?
 
I believe it is. He is playing to keep
his starting job or to Not be on the
Trading block. Just a thought, what y'all
think? Either way I'm glad he has picked
up his production.

MichaelWi101 01-19-13 07:30 PM

It would seem like he's finally comfortable with the system and his role.

And he resented it when he was called a bust on this forum and decided to prove some folks wrong :laugh

mckennaspur1 01-19-13 11:03 PM

Tiago is going to be around for as long as his game keeps improving. He's becoming a reliable anchor in the middle.

Baynes arrival ends Blair, not Splitter.

alh1020 01-20-13 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 (Post 1290561)
It would seem like he's finally comfortable with the system and his role...........

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> I have to agree with that statement particularly since the Spurs offensive schema has so many variations and options. And I think his teammates are more comfortable going to him more around the basket since it’s evident Splitter’s game around the basket has been improving. Splitter has been injury free for a while which adds to his confidence and longevity. Add to that his passing ability for a big and his improving free throw shooting has him getting more touches per game. Whenever Baynes does show up, he has to work for his minutes as Splitter has become a workhorse both on offense and defense. Splitter is becoming more and more untouchable in my mind and a more permanent fixture in the Spurs lineup.
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MRJONESIII 01-20-13 07:24 AM

2 words....Contract year!

spurscrazed 01-20-13 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRJONESIII (Post 1290572)
2 words....Contract year!

Bingo! :thumb

stuffedmushroomz 01-20-13 12:40 PM

Yep, contract may be the reason. Its not that he is comfortable now bcuz Pop has always said that he doesn't miss assignments. It really has come down to EFFORT. The Motive for that may be
1. Keeping the Starting Job
2. Contract Year
3. Dosesnt want to be expandable

spursfan9 01-20-13 01:42 PM

he gonna try to pickup a nice contract like malik rose and then sit on it.

doom32x4 01-20-13 01:51 PM

He may just be a better starter than bench guy. He's a known professional from many leagues, not a low-motor guy who got up for a contract. The Malik Rose situation has no correlation to this. Splitter is larger and more talented than Malik ever was. Malik was a high motor guy who did well when paired with good talent, but was undersized. The Spurs simply saw a chance to get bigger to continue the Robinson - Nesterovic - giant sidekick routine with acquiring Nazr. By the time Malik got his larger contract his strengths were declining due to age and wear. Splitter has never shown anything other than effort, he's just finally in a consistent situation and is reacting accordingly. Some players simply play better with more usage.

MichaelWi101 01-20-13 03:52 PM

This has nothing to do with it being a contract year. After all, he's not an American AAU trained, one and done college player who thrives on dunks, sports center and has the it's all about me way of thought.

He is one of those team first players who's spent his time learning how to play team ball and this is the FIRST time that Pop has completely trusted him, that he's been healthy and he is constantly showing improvement.

The way he's been playing this year, the way he's holding his own against the bigs in the West is impressive. And hopefully he'll be able to negate some of the OKC length when the Spurs face them.

And if only he keeps it up during the playoffs

shelden 01-20-13 04:56 PM

Quote:

He is one of those team first players who's spent his time learning how to play team ball and this is the FIRST time that Pop has completely trusted him, that he's been healthy and he is constantly showing improvement.
^This.

Jose_TheGenius 01-21-13 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuffedmushroomz (Post 1290558)
I believe it is. He is playing to keep
his starting job or to Not be on the
Trading block. Just a thought, what y'all
think? Either way I'm glad he has picked
up his production.

he's been playing well since the start of the season, way before Baynes was being thought of

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRJONESIII (Post 1290572)
2 words....Contract year!

absolutely

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 (Post 1290593)
This has nothing to do with it being a contract year. After all, he's not an American AAU trained, one and done college player who thrives on dunks, sports center and has the it's all about me way of thought.

He is one of those team first players who's spent his time learning how to play team ball and this is the FIRST time that Pop has completely trusted him, that he's been healthy and he is constantly showing improvement.

The way he's been playing this year, the way he's holding his own against the bigs in the West is impressive. And hopefully he'll be able to negate some of the OKC length when the Spurs face them.

And if only he keeps it up during the playoffs

problem with him finding comfort is that the reason he's playing extremely well is that he's aggressive. that doesn't come with the system of the Spurs, just a mindset.

the last 2 years he wouldn't think about dunking it, now he dunks it every chance he gets. he wouldn't think about putting a hook shot up until this year nor was he even jumping as high as he could securing rebounds. those are all things he could've done if he wanted to before.

dude wants his money and he's playing to his potential because of it.

mckennaspur1 01-21-13 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius (Post 1290611)
he's been playing well since the start of the season, way before Baynes was being thought of



absolutely



problem with him finding comfort is that the reason he's playing extremely well is that he's aggressive. that doesn't come with the system of the Spurs, just a mindset.

the last 2 years he wouldn't think about dunking it, now he dunks it every chance he gets. he wouldn't think about putting a hook shot up until this year nor was he even jumping as high as he could securing rebounds. those are all things he could've done if he wanted to before.

dude wants his money and he's playing to his potential because of it.

I couldn't agree more. Pop's system is daunting, and it has a tendency to keep players leashed until they master it.

While it's certain that some of Tiago's improvement comes from his figuring out how his talents can work against top NBA competition, much of his improvement comes from learning how the Spur mechanism works and what his role is within it.

Rasho looked restrained and hesitant until TD injuries demanded that he open up and react instinctively. It took TP years to feel comfortable to become the All-Star he's become. SJax was chained to the bench for a full year before Pop let him play with his full enthusiasm.

Even now, Kawhi has yet to bring his full offensive skills to bear and Nando dials back the sort of razzle-dazzle he showed in his European career while learning the ropes.

I'd be amazed to see Tiago as a one-season wonder, hungry only for a contract. The guy's a keeper who will be a major building block as the team moves forward.

bills0 01-21-13 05:03 PM

I am going to dissent on the basic premise here. I don't think that Splitter has gotten much better over the last three seasons. He has always been this good. He just has gotten more minutes. His per 48 minutes stats from his three seasons in San Antonio have been about the same.

Pop has said several times that Splitter has been doing what he is doing now all along, the latest being after the Golden State game. He was saying the same thing last year as well. The only big difference from season to season is a steady increase in playing time.

katyspursfan 01-21-13 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bills0 (Post 1290671)
I am going to dissent on the basic premise here. I don't think that Splitter has gotten much better over the last three seasons. He has always been this good. He just has gotten more minutes. His per 48 minutes stats from his three seasons in San Antonio have been about the same.

Pop has said several times that Splitter has been doing what he is doing now all along, the latest being after the Golden State game. He was saying the same thing last year as well. The only big difference from season to season is a steady increase in playing time.

One more item to add to the mix is that he's now doing it against the other team's best players.

He has gotten better. Instead of putting up decent numbers against the other team's scrubs/backups, he's now doing it against much better players. Maybe the number are the same, but the contribution is better.

Is he the new Rasho? Always where he needs to be defensively (not quite) but with minimal offensive contributions (Splitter way up). But averaged, his plusses absolutely outweigh the minuses.

stuffedmushroomz 01-22-13 10:11 AM

I thinks I've said it 2x already. Its not that he is starting or that he is getting more minutes or he has finally learned the system. It all comes down to EFFORT! The he is muscling down low, to Score or Rebound that goes to EFFORT, not more minutes. Look at P. Mills his is all EFFORT and should be getting more minutes, bcuz of it. Tiago's or Patty's aggressiveness permeates through out the entire team when they make aggressive plays.

JuanCaca 01-22-13 10:50 AM

i just hope Aron play with the intensity of his countrymate Patty...

Jose_TheGenius 01-22-13 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuffedmushroomz (Post 1290696)
I thinks I've said it 2x already. Its not that he is starting or that he is getting more minutes or he has finally learned the system. It all comes down to EFFORT! The he is muscling down low, to Score or Rebound that goes to EFFORT, not more minutes. Look at P. Mills his is all EFFORT and should be getting more minutes, bcuz of it. Tiago's or Patty's aggressiveness permeates through out the entire team when they make aggressive plays.

agreed, but like ur post that started the thread, it has nothing to do with Baynes. the guy is definitely trying harder to get overpaid in the offseason.

doom32x4 01-23-13 09:42 AM

It can also be said that some players play better when they are secure in their minutes and role. It's a chicken and egg argument.

WILLTHETHRILL 01-24-13 12:37 AM

contract year....the end

tuncaboylu 01-24-13 03:58 AM

It's not related with the contract year. Who claims it doesn't know anything about Splitter.

Tiago was a semi-god in Europe and there was a Tiago Church in Baskonia (the city of Tau Ceramica-Caja Laboral). He was getting too many money there, the biggest clubs of Europe (like CSKA, Olympiakos, Barcelona) were running after him. But he decided to come NBA at 25 years old (for less money) to be a bench player. Because he's ambitious and wants to prove himself. He would get more money in Europe recent 3 years.

He became zero from hero in NBA. In his first year he didn't average more than 13 minutes in the field. He didn't give up, didn't think heading back to Europe. And at last he founded the playing time and he's rocking now.

The money was not a big factor in Splitter's career selections. He always wanted to prove himself and become better. Now he's better.

That's why he won't take money and sit on it. He will play hard even he gets the big paycheck.

Jose_TheGenius 01-24-13 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuncaboylu (Post 1290806)
It's not related with the contract year. Who claims it doesn't know anything about Splitter.

Tiago was a semi-god in Europe and there was a Tiago Church in Baskonia (the city of Tau Ceramica-Caja Laboral). He was getting too many money there, the biggest clubs of Europe (like CSKA, Olympiakos, Barcelona) were running after him. But he decided to come NBA at 25 years old (for less money) to be a bench player. Because he's ambitious and wants to prove himself. He would get more money in Europe recent 3 years.

He became zero from hero in NBA. In his first year he didn't average more than 13 minutes in the field. He didn't give up, didn't think heading back to Europe. And at last he founded the playing time and he's rocking now.

The money was not a big factor in Splitter's career selections. He always wanted to prove himself and become better. Now he's better.

That's why he won't take money and sit on it. He will play hard even he gets the big paycheck.

i'll agree with you that he was a big deal, but did he play as aggressive as he is now over there? Europe is known as a softer country when it comes to basketball. there was a rumor or report a bit ago that the guy couldn't even bench 25lbs on each side, that's extremely weak for anyone who wants to be fit.

my point with that is the guy gets pushed around. he really had no motivation to play this hard as before. since you take to know Splitter better than most (from ur post), let me ask you this from a basketball stand point and not from a Splitter argument:

1. how does the "level of comfort" matter with rolling to the basket?
the guy would set perfect screens from the start, except this time he's running to the basket and putting a shot up. before this season, he didn't use a reverse layup, something he uses consistently now. when he gets the ball in the paint, he puts up the shot quickly off the glass instead of the last 2 years where he'd second guess everything. i seriously doubt his comfort level with the team would effect if he'd put up the closest shot on the court as fast as he could unless he thought he should pass it.

2. how does a lack of minutes (even though he'd average 10+mpg) make a difference on his style of play?
i can get why Bonner would be effected because he has to shoot to get comfortable, the only thing he's known for. Tiago is different, he doesn't have to get into rhythm to play because he doesn't shoot. He got a few starting assignments next to Duncan vs. the Grizzlies 2 years ago and he still didn't show anything after Pop gave him the chance.

if Tiago's reasoning for "getting better" is that he's starting, that would make a boatload more sense because he might not be a bench player (i.e. Hedo in 2004), but that still wouldn't explain the many times he has started in the last 2 years where he didn't show anything close. The Spurs were still looking to run and they still needed help on the inside because Duncan has been a jump shooter for the past 3 years.

the level of play in Europe isn't the same. if it was, a lot more players would have an easier transition to the NBA. while we think the NBA has "gotten soft" lately, it's still stiffer than Europe will probably ever be. i'm pretty sure there hasn't been a Dwight Howard or Z-Bo type player who's abused Splitter in the past before. maybe the guy finally went to the gym to get stronger, who knows?....but the argument that he's "finally" comfortable in a scheme that all he's been asked to do is pick and roll on offense or cut to the basket after 2 years isn't legit at all.

tuncaboylu 01-25-13 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius (Post 1290839)
i'll agree with you that he was a big deal, but did he play as aggressive as he is now over there? Europe is known as a softer country when it comes to basketball. there was a rumor or report a bit ago that the guy couldn't even bench 25lbs on each side, that's extremely weak for anyone who wants to be fit.

my point with that is the guy gets pushed around. he really had no motivation to play this hard as before. since you take to know Splitter better than most (from ur post), let me ask you this from a basketball stand point and not from a Splitter argument:

1. how does the "level of comfort" matter with rolling to the basket?
the guy would set perfect screens from the start, except this time he's running to the basket and putting a shot up. before this season, he didn't use a reverse layup, something he uses consistently now. when he gets the ball in the paint, he puts up the shot quickly off the glass instead of the last 2 years where he'd second guess everything. i seriously doubt his comfort level with the team would effect if he'd put up the closest shot on the court as fast as he could unless he thought he should pass it.

2. how does a lack of minutes (even though he'd average 10+mpg) make a difference on his style of play?
i can get why Bonner would be effected because he has to shoot to get comfortable, the only thing he's known for. Tiago is different, he doesn't have to get into rhythm to play because he doesn't shoot. He got a few starting assignments next to Duncan vs. the Grizzlies 2 years ago and he still didn't show anything after Pop gave him the chance.

if Tiago's reasoning for "getting better" is that he's starting, that would make a boatload more sense because he might not be a bench player (i.e. Hedo in 2004), but that still wouldn't explain the many times he has started in the last 2 years where he didn't show anything close. The Spurs were still looking to run and they still needed help on the inside because Duncan has been a jump shooter for the past 3 years.

the level of play in Europe isn't the same. if it was, a lot more players would have an easier transition to the NBA. while we think the NBA has "gotten soft" lately, it's still stiffer than Europe will probably ever be. i'm pretty sure there hasn't been a Dwight Howard or Z-Bo type player who's abused Splitter in the past before. maybe the guy finally went to the gym to get stronger, who knows?....but the argument that he's "finally" comfortable in a scheme that all he's been asked to do is pick and roll on offense or cut to the basket after 2 years isn't legit at all.

Playing time effects all the players, not only shooters. When the player knows that he has 25 minutes in the field, he doesn't afraid to make mistakes. But if he knows he has only 12 minutes, he can't feel comforted. It's human psychology.

In some points, you're right. TSplitter's body was not strong when he came to NBA. But it's not about playing hard in NBA and soft in Europe. If you watch EuroLeague games, you will see that they're harder than NBA regular season games.(In play-off it changes) But playing hard doesn't mean having physical condition, all the guys are keeping pressure to the player whom they defend. But physical conditions of players in NBA are much better than Europe. (82 games, 48 minutes etc).

It's not easy to adapt NBA after 25 years old. It's not easy to become a deep bench player after being a star of his own team. It's not easy to understand Spurs system in defense and offense. It's not easy to defend the big bodies in NBA when coming from Europe. These were biggest sttruggles for Splitter.

But Splitter is a smart guy, he waited and learnt. Now he has started to produce. Yes his contract is expiring this year. But if it wasn't expiring, it wouldn't change Splitter's current improvement too much. Maybe money is a motivation, but is a small factor in Splitter's case.

bills0 02-02-13 12:34 PM

Here is Greg Popovich's opinion on Splitter's improvement:

"There's been no progression. People have asked me that before. How did he get like this? What did he do over the summer? What's his improvement? There is none. This is who he is. He just has been hurt most of the time he has been with us. This is the first time because that he as gotten consistent minutes...."

See the full video:

HoopsHype - Healthy Splitter taking step forward


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