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td4mvp2k 01-11-13 09:53 PM

Pierce Trade?
 
The Boston Celtics have made it known in exploratory trade talks with other other teams that Paul Pierce could be available via trade, according to team executives around the league.

Only $4 million of Pierce’s $15.3 million salary is guaranteed next season.

Ken Berger/CBSSports

b1gdon 01-11-13 10:16 PM

Leonard and Jackson for Pierce straight up. Spurs make 2 year final run with no future. Boston gets some youth, but scoring is a problem. Still keeps them competitive. Defensive only juggernaut.

choppsboy 01-11-13 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1gdon (Post 1290176)
:pissedLeonard:pissed and Jackson for Pierce straight up. Spurs make 2 year final run with no future. Boston gets some youth, but scoring is a problem. Still keeps them competitive. Defensive only juggernaut.

WRONG!facepalm

mckennaspur1 01-12-13 01:37 AM

I'm not giving up Leonard for anybody.

His one-on-one defensive skills are already breathtaking, and he's barely scratched the surface of what he can do on offense. He's incredibly mature and freakishly athletic. In time, he could prove to be the best thing that's happened to the Spurs roster since Manu.

crazytlingit 01-12-13 02:45 AM

Leonard has showed me nothing too impressive this year! He was supposed to have a break out season, where I haven't seen that period! I want to think he could be a reliable scorer in the future, but I'm not convinced yet, where he doesn't get the right separation and lift to get his shot off. I think he is a solid player, but he needs to pick his play up big time. I still wouldn't trade him though, but he needs to pick it up!

Guapo 01-12-13 05:23 AM

No thanks

TimmyDthaWay2B 01-12-13 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytlingit (Post 1290182)
Leonard has showed me nothing too impressive this year! He was supposed to have a break out season, where I haven't seen that period! I want to think he could be a reliable scorer in the future, but I'm not convinced yet, where he doesn't get the right separation and lift to get his shot off. I think he is a solid player, but he needs to pick his play up big time. I still wouldn't trade him though, but he needs to pick it up!

He is in his second year?!?!?

mckennaspur1 01-12-13 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytlingit (Post 1290182)
Leonard has showed me nothing too impressive this year! He was supposed to have a break out season, where I haven't seen that period! I want to think he could be a reliable scorer in the future, but I'm not convinced yet, where he doesn't get the right separation and lift to get his shot off. I think he is a solid player, but he needs to pick his play up big time. I still wouldn't trade him though, but he needs to pick it up!

I fear for anyone who dribbles in his presence. The man is the slickest pickpocket I've ever seen.

Everything else you mention will be there in time. TP was in the league for three-four years before he developed the refinements you want from Kawhi. Remember all those demands that we dump TP for Kidd ten years ago.

alh1020 01-12-13 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckennaspur1 (Post 1290189)
I fear for anyone who dribbles in his presence. The man is the slickest pickpocket I've ever seen. ....

Not to mention that Kawhi had a steal in the first 14 seconds of the game against Memphis last night.

choppsboy 01-12-13 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytlingit (Post 1290182)
Leonard has showed me nothing too impressive this year! He was supposed to have a break out season, where I haven't seen that period! I want to think he could be a reliable scorer in the future, but I'm not convinced yet, where he doesn't get the right separation and lift to get his shot off. I think he is a solid player, but he needs to pick his play up big time. I still wouldn't trade him though, but he needs to pick it up!

Kawhi (with some support from Splitter) is the main reason our defense is improved from last year. The kid is only 21 years old.

Look at our defensive stats while he was injured compared to now.

Who ever said Kawhi was supposed to be a reliable scorer in the future? That is not his destiny. If that happens to happen, Kawhi will be an all star. I just want him to be Bruce Bowen, and he is almost already there. He is having a breakout season. His defense is much improved from last season. You need to look beyond the box score.

Kager 01-13-13 05:58 PM

Wow I can not even say how bad a deal I think that is, Danny Ainge would erect a statue to RC and Pop in the forecourt.... PP looks to be on the same youth drugs as TD and if we went for Cap'n and maybe Blair then ok, but to offer Leonard and Cap'n for a player that might have 1 or 2 years in him is certified. Leonard may not reach all star level but he is definately a huge part of our future.

bills0 01-13-13 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytlingit (Post 1290182)
Leonard has showed me nothing too impressive this year! He was supposed to have a break out season, where I haven't seen that period!

For a different take on Leonard:

Using their WP48 metric, the advanced statistics website wagesofwins.com lists Leonard as the #6 SF in the league right now (amongst players with at least 500 min). However, they do agree that he is not doing quite as well as he did last season when he was the #2 SF in the league. (Actually, they had him ranked #3 but they showed Manu Ginobili as #2. I am assuming they meant SG for Manu.)

They also show Leonard ranked as the #20 player overall in the league right now based on WP48 (amongst players with over 500 minutes).

crazytlingit 01-14-13 01:27 AM

Hmm, I agree with a lot of you guys when it comes to saying this guy has talent, but when you numbers are identical to what they were your rookie season than I have problems. He is still just averaging 8 points and 5 rebounds, exactly the same as last year, well slightly higher. That's just a numbers game to me, not what he can due during a 36 min theoretical time. He is also averaging 3 more minutes a game to boot. I love this guys game, but he needs to pick it up big time and start taking a leadership role. I haven't seen too many players in my day that came out the second season and did exactly the same as the year before with more minutes and call it a break out season. Just saying his numbers at least need to be 15pts 7rbs and 2stl, then I would be getting excited and declaring him absolutely untouchable.

crazytlingit 01-14-13 01:29 AM

I just hope this guy doesn't develop at a the rate of Tiago Splitter, where 4 years to develop with this group won't work if we have true aspirations of getting a championship.

exit7 01-14-13 12:34 PM

Its halfway through the season and Kawhi was injured for a good stretch of games. Talking about trading him is ridiculous if only because he is still on his rookie contract and you can't possibly get equal value.

That being said, the guy does need to step up in the second half of the season. If you look at Tony and Manu's second seasons, they improved dramatically. I don't think Kawhi is in their caliber but with how Pop was talking about him, thats what you expect.

crazytlingit 01-14-13 04:17 PM

I hear you on the trade, I personally wouldn't trade him unless it was something ridiculous. He needs to step up now that Manu is hurt again. Come on man, I believe in him, he just seems to coast to much on the offensive end of the court. I will mention I think his defense his second to none!

Guille 01-14-13 05:50 PM

There´s no way the Celtics trade Pierce, it´s like trading Tim Duncan for the Spurs, Kobe for the Lakers or Wade for the Heat.

b1gdon 01-14-13 09:54 PM

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FONN-0uoTHI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Look, I like Leonard, but to get Paul Pierce this is what it would take short of a lottery pick. I would be very conflicted, but if this trade were there I think I would have to take it. This would instantly make us favorites for the championship this year. We would have a closing lineup of Parker, Ginobili, Pierce, Duncan, and Splitter/Diaw. No team could come close to that. Our window for championships is rapidly closing and short of replacing Duncan and Manu with a future HOFer, it will be closed for a while. Need to strike while they can still win it.

Kager 01-15-13 04:45 PM

I guess the key issue here is the risk factor and cost of putting him in, as it won't be for more than 2 years and it might not even work as PP is used to being the focal point and having the ball in his hand.

If they bring him in he has no real time to connect with the team and figure out how he fits in, which worked with Diaw but that was mainly because he realised he was a role player doing less than he had previously to provide D, boards and passing (with some shooting). PP on the other hand is a scorer and would he be ok with being the 3rd or 4th option?

I still think to give up a player with so much potential who is already giving so much to the team and will be able to do so for over a decade barring injuries is too much of a cost/risk for the minimal return we will get.

BTW we will never be a Championship favourite no matter who we bring in, we are to small a market..... ohhh and we are old and boring.

bills0 01-15-13 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1gdon (Post 1290330)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FONN-0uoTHI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Look, I like Leonard, but to get Paul Pierce this is what it would take short of a lottery pick. I would be very conflicted, but if this trade were there I think I would have to take it. This would instantly make us favorites for the championship this year. We would have a closing lineup of Parker, Ginobili, Pierce, Duncan, and Splitter/Diaw. No team could come close to that. Our window for championships is rapidly closing and short of replacing Duncan and Manu with a future HOFer, it will be closed for a while. Need to strike while they can still win it.

I think you are talking of the Paul Pierce of yesteryear. He is 35 now and no longer the force that he once was. It makes no sense to trade Leonard for someone who has regressed more and is playing worse than Leonard.

esparzar1 01-15-13 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytlingit (Post 1290280)
Hmm, I agree with a lot of you guys when it comes to saying this guy has talent, but when you numbers are identical to what they were your rookie season than I have problems. He is still just averaging 8 points and 5 rebounds, exactly the same as last year, well slightly higher. That's just a numbers game to me, not what he can due during a 36 min theoretical time. He is also averaging 3 more minutes a game to boot. I love this guys game, but he needs to pick it up big time and start taking a leadership role. I haven't seen too many players in my day that came out the second season and did exactly the same as the year before with more minutes and call it a break out season. Just saying his numbers at least need to be 15pts 7rbs and 2stl, then I would be getting excited and declaring him absolutely untouchable.

Man, don't rock the boat too hard lol. Leonard is a stud, for one, he's been injured for half the season but he's still producing. It's not about the numbers , especially when you consider that he's usually the 4th if not 5th option on the team. If Leonard was on almost any other team he would in fact average the numbers that you say he needs to average. Imagine if he was on the bobcats or kings??? He would easily be averaging what you think he should be avererging. Name one other player that plays as much of a role as k.leo does as the 4th option/best player????

b1gdon 01-15-13 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bills0 (Post 1290384)
I think you are talking of the Paul Pierce of yesteryear. He is 35 now and no longer the force that he once was. It makes no sense to trade Leonard for someone who has regressed more and is playing worse than Leonard.

??????????

Pierce is averaging the same thing he has since Garnett and Allen joined the Celtics in 07. In fact, this is probably his best year since 07. I seriously doubt he's going to go from All-Star starter and third best SF in the league to garbage in one year even at his advanced age.

Leonard is a good player and he may even make the all-star game one day, but he's isn't a Hall of Famer playing at the same HOF level Pierce has been playing for the last 6 years.

bills0 01-17-13 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1gdon (Post 1290391)
??????????

Pierce is averaging the same thing he has since Garnett and Allen joined the Celtics in 07. In fact, this is probably his best year since 07. I seriously doubt he's going to go from All-Star starter and third best SF in the league to garbage in one year even at his advanced age.

Leonard is a good player and he may even make the all-star game one day, but he's isn't a Hall of Famer playing at the same HOF level Pierce has been playing for the last 6 years.

I disagree.

Pierce is a shooter. He is about average at everything else. Unlike a lot of volume shooters, Pierce has shot with a high percentage for most of his career. This is what made him a star. But his percentage has declined the last two years. His best True Shooting Percentage (which takes into account the effect of free throws and three point shots) was in the 2010-2011 season (62.1%). However, this season he has dropped from a TS% of 62.1% to 55.3%, and last season was only marginally better. Since an average SF has a TS% of 54.0 % this means Pierce is not a lot better than an average PF.

Leonard is not a shooter. He makes his impact by being good at other things. However, his TS% now stands at 61.5%. A mark that Pierce has only exceeded once in his career, the above mentioned 2010-2011 season. Thus, when Leonard shoots it helps the team, when Pierce shoots (now) it does little to help the team since any average shooter could do almost as well.

Paul Pierce's shooting may recover. His TS% has been low in other seasons and he has bounced back the next season. The fact that the best season of his career was season before last indicates there may hopes for his future.

However, this is no argument for a trade in order to help the Spurs now. If the Spurs traded Leonard for Pierce they would be doing the opposite, trading a currently performing Leonard for a reclamation project in Pierce. Given the fact that Leonard is in just his second season and probably has not hit his peak yet, and that Pierce is well past his prime and likely on a downward slide, this idea makes even less sense.

I am willing to bet that if the Spurs were offered a straight swap, Leonard for Pierce, they would not consider it.


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