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spurscrazed 12-07-12 01:10 AM

PTR Possible Spurs Trade Target: Anderson Varejao?
 
Should the Spurs consider trading Kawhi for Varejao?
By J. Gomez
LINK

I was reading The Point Forward's excellent article on Anderson Varejao and why the Cavaliers probably are not in a big rush to trade him. The case they make is that Andy V has as much value for the Cavs both on and off the court as he has to a contender, and the Cavs will have significant cap space even with Varejao on board. A trade prying away the best Brazilian big man in the league (sorry, Tiago and Nene) would have to be really enticing and not just a combination of expiring contracts and role players.


Sam's take on the subject provides the Spurs with the perfect complement to its front court without losing any vital pieces, but I doubt the Cavs would go for it, considering the reasons exposed by Golliver and Mahoney. Sure, the package the Spurs would be offering is not that bad, but Cleveland probably is not in as much of a hurry to get rid of Andy as some of us want them to be, and the team would have 28 other teams to negotiate with. I would be thrilled if they exchanged Jackson and Splitter for Andy, but I just don't see it happening.

If Varejao is going to be traded then productive young players, especially those on rookie deals, are probably going to be the asking price. Now, I have been obsessing about Varejao in a Spurs jersey for a long time; I think he would be the final piece that would transform the Spurs into an elite defensive squad with his pick and roll defense and outstanding rebounding. So the question I have been asking myself after reading both trade posts is, if getting Varejao means parting with Kawhi Leonard, should the Spurs consider it?

I hope Sam doesn't mind me getting into his turf, but this is the fake trade I came up with. The Spurs get Varejao and the Cavs get Tiago Splitter, Cory Joseph, Nando De Colo, and of course Leonard. I believe it works for the Cavs because they are getting a replacement for Andy in Tiago, plus two guys on very affordable deals and their starting small forward of the future. Splitter is a downgrade over Varejao at this point, but the Cavs are trying to build for long term success and finishing with a bad record is a step in the right direction - a very high pick. They can re-sign Splitter this off season to be either their starter or ideally their first big off the bench for the foreseeable future and pursue a starter either via the draft or free agency. Maybe get the Zeller brothers together or take their chances on high risk high reward picks like Rudy Gobert or Nerlens Noel.

De Colo and Joseph are immediate upgrades over Donald Sloan and Jeremy Pargo and could grow up with Irving, Waiters and Thompson. With the guard situation sorted out, Kawhi Leonard starting at small forward with C.J. Miles backing him up, and Splitter, Thompson and Zeller up front, Cleveland is only a solid big away from the playoffs. Leonard also brings the type of work ethic Varejao provides, while being the perfect fit next to the ball-dominant Irving and Waiters. The 2013/14 Cavs are likely better with this trade. But what about the Spurs?

Varejao would be a god-send for a Spurs team that has traditionally struggled with perimeter oriented bigs and defending the pick and roll. When you add San Antonio's recent defensive rebounding woes, Varejao makes even more sense, as he leads the league in defensive, offensive and total rebounds, rebounds per game and trails only Reggie Evans in defensive rebound percentage. I love Splitter, but Varejao would be a huge upgrade, considering the Spurs' needs.

The loss of depth at point guard is not ideal, but the Spurs would still have Parker, Neal, Mills and Ginobili as creators. The biggest loss is Leonard, but the Spurs are not in a bad position to make up for it. Make no mistake, Jackson as a 30-minutes-a-game player is a downgrade over The Big Island and a Jackson-Pietrus/Anderson/D-League call up wing rotation is a worse combination than Leonard-Jackson. But the Spurs will be getting much, much better up front, and Danny Green is showing he can guard the three spot effectively. I'm convinced the Spurs are a better team after the trade, too.

But Leonard is younger and could blossom into a special player, so the question is how does the trade affect the silver and black in the future? And perhaps more importantly, should we care?

Tim Duncan has been playing so well this year that I am inclined to believe the Spurs can aspire to contend for longer than just this upcoming season. He and Manu, however, are on the wrong side of 30 and will slow down eventually. There's no Duncan on the way to allow Tim to take on the Robinson role; once Tim is gone, the Spurs will probably have to, for the first time in 25 years, consider rebuilding. Kawhi Leonard is a great young player, but he doesn't change that reality on his own. The Spurs will likely pick very low in this upcoming draft, a place where they have been hit or miss lately. The time to win is now.

A case could be made that keeping Leonard would help keep the championship window open and help with the rebuilding effort. Having your small forward of the future in place along with a few young players makes the team one slam dunk high pick away from relevancy. At the same time, if you believe, like I do, that Anderson Varejao would make the team significantly better in the short term, isn't that worth risking a hypothetical ideal future that may or may not materialize? If you don't like Andy, replace him with Josh Smith, Paul Millsap or whoever your heart desires. Would you trade Kawhi for them?

I honestly don't know. I think it depends on how much faith any one of us has in Leonard becoming a top 30 player in the next couple of years. But I think it's a question that's worth asking. How committed are the Spurs to contending right now?

______________________________________________

Two days ago a trade was suggested by another writer *sam* on PTR:

Tuesday Trade Talk: Anderson Varejao
By sambunnell on Dec 4,
LINK


Bring in an athletic, defensive-minded power forward to the Spurs. Erase the national debt, end all wars, and create perfect harmony in Washington, D.C. Do these all seem about the same likelihood of happening these days? Why couldn't we just trade all our less-than-essential pieces for Josh Smith this off-season, right?

Our own dear editor, the great J.R. Wilco himself, foresees a move during this season. So, he asked me to keep my bony finger as close to the pulse of the league as I can get it and to report on any remotely and/or reasonably potential trade targets.

We Spurs fans are delighted to see our boys 14-4 and already making history this season. It's a harbinger of good things to come, but what if we could hasten those things along by shoring up any weakness that may exist? What if we could make a reasonable move to acquire a big man that would bring strong defense and athleticism to our front court rotation? For this cause, I write on.

In this fourth installment of TTT, we take a look at Cleveland's Anderson Varejao. Untouchable? Hardly. Cleveland, though publicly dragging their feet on dealing their productive center, may be actually shopping him hard. Varejao is having the season of his life, averaging 15 ppg and 15 rpg a game. However, the 6'11, 260 lb. Brazilian is 30 and doesn't have enough years left in the tank to be the cornerstone of the Cavalier's building project for the future. Best move then? Deal him while his market is at its peak, and use what you get in return to stockpile and rebuild.



The Proposal

(I throw one out there each week. You feel free to shred it in the comments.)

Spurs trade Stephen Jackson, Tiago Splitter, and Gary Neal for Varejao and Daniel Gibson.

Here's my thinking: a team in the Cavs situation needs all the cap room they can get. If they answered honestly, their front office would have to admit that Varejao is not part of their future success. He is on the back end of his career, and he's expensive.

The problem for Cleveland is, other teams know those things too. So the Cavs probably aren't going to get equal value for him. See, If the organization is going to turn things around behind Kyrie and Tristan, then they HAVE to move their only eligible and valuable piece. Then, if they can clear even more money space in so doing, they might actually be able to lure a couple of top flight free agents, because those players see the Cavs have the dollars to bring in more real talent.

When Jackson's contract comes off Cleveland's books next year, it adds another ten million that they are under the cap. Plus they would be getting a quality sharpshooter and experienced vet in Neal and a young, talented, and improving big in Splitter.

Too little to get Varejao? Think about it. They're not getting any of the Big 3, and Kawhi is also likely off limits. Danny Green could be an option, but he isn't on the trade block yet, and regardless, he isn't going to make the Cavs attractive enough of a team to draw in a big name FA. Money could do just that, though. Jackson's expiring contract could be just enough to allow Cleveland to go get a Josh Smith or Andrew Bynum, plus a highly productive wing.

Who is available for them to sign? Cleveland's backcourt is probably set with Kyrie Irving and rookie Dion Waiters, so they should focus on their frontcourt. If they could get, say, Andre Iguodala, Andrew Bynum, and Jason Maxiell to sign with all their inordinate amounts of cap space, then all of a sudden, they have a playoff team again. And it's the kind that isn't leaning on one star. They would be a collection of good to very good players, which is much, much more than they can say right now.

The question a team has to ask itself before it makes a trade is "are we better after the dust settles?" Locking up Varejao to finally give Duncan that twin tower again for his final years in the league would certainly give San Antonio a resounding yes in answer to that question. Creating extra cap space to bring in enough real talent to return to the playoffs would also leave Clevelanders answering, "Yes, we are better after such a trade."

That's all I can ask, really.

A Moment of Weakness:

(I pretend that PATFO has suddenly lost its collective senses. You wish you'd never had the thought cross your mind.)

Spurs send Manu Ginobili and Kawhi Leonard to Cleveland for Anderson Varejao, Luke Walton, Daniel Gibson, and Omri Casspi.

Since I'm even jokingly suggesting we trade Manu on PtR, I better say something along with it, so I'm not arrested... If we made the above trade, we would be clearing about 13 million extra off the books at the end of the year, to go with the possible 6 million we clear if Blair, Splitter, and Neal don't resign. Then we go sign Josh Smith, Andrei Kirilenko, and and Paul Pierce and beat everyone in the world. At the same time. But by now you've learned to excuse my ravings in this section, right?

Guapo 12-07-12 01:43 AM

No

spurscrazed 12-07-12 01:54 AM

Spurs would have to pay a lot in the trade to get Anderson Varejao!

Is he worth it? I don't think so. Therefore NO is right Guapo!:thumb

BadKo 12-07-12 02:40 AM

Saw the heading Kawhi for Varejao and instantly knew it wasn't worth reading.

td4mvp2k 12-07-12 04:57 AM

Both writers need to get lost.

Jose_TheGenius 12-07-12 07:59 AM

not only Leonard, but you'd probably have to throw in a Stephen Jackson expiring deal with it.

i'd rather go small and have Kawhi/Jax play a big position than trade away assets for Varajeo at this point

Uwe Blab 12-07-12 08:10 AM

No, but you could trade Tiago, De Colo, Joseph and Blair and it would work. But that's a lot of players to give up. Or, you could trade one of your expiring contracts, Jackson or Manu, and get him plus some fillers I guess. They are a young team with a need for some veteran leadership, but I don't see them doing that. I don't see this going down at all.

alh1020 12-07-12 09:38 AM

Where's my gun.................

grizzly_bexar 12-07-12 09:51 AM

No, no, no, no. We would lose our only other post threat and our best wing defender.

JuanCaca 12-07-12 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uwe Blab (Post 1288287)
No, but you could trade Tiago, De Colo, Joseph and Blair and it would work. But that's a lot of players to give up. Or, you could trade one of your expiring contracts, Jackson or Manu, and get him plus some fillers I guess. They are a young team with a need for some veteran leadership, but I don't see them doing that. I don't see this going down at all.

i prefeer keep De Colo...

Eddy from Austin 12-07-12 10:02 AM


WILLTHETHRILL 12-07-12 11:52 AM

just wait till the summer. Manu is off the books. Big pay cut if he returns. SJax is off the books. Big pay cut to return. Spurs have a team option for Bonner as well.

Jose_TheGenius 12-07-12 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL (Post 1288303)
just wait till the summer. Manu is off the books. Big pay cut if he returns. SJax is off the books. Big pay cut to return. Spurs have a team option for Bonner as well.

what does that have to do with trading for Varajeo? :lol

Bonner would get amnestied before he'd ever get bought out and neither look likely. it'd be harder to trade for Varajeo with everyone taking paycuts and being off the books next summer with how Varajeo is playing so far.

NemesysN4R 12-07-12 02:25 PM

Varajeo isn't worth the destruction of our chemistry. The gall of thinking of trading Leonard but mentioning Manu! Come on now! Side Show Bob isn't that good.

Rzarector7 12-07-12 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NemesysN4R (Post 1288308)
Varajeo isn't worth the destruction of our chemistry. The gall of thinking of trading Leonard but mentioning Manu! Come on now! Side Show Bob isn't that good.

I agree.

WILLTHETHRILL 12-07-12 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius (Post 1288304)
what does that have to do with trading for Varajeo? :lol

Bonner would get amnestied before he'd ever get bought out and neither look likely. it'd be harder to trade for Varajeo with everyone taking paycuts and being off the books next summer with how Varajeo is playing so far.

Wow Jose you really are that blind and deaf yet again on my posts?:laugh If you trade for Varajeo he has a big contract with a few more years still. Nothing against him I like him. But he he would eat up a ton of cap and the Spurs would be out of any major free agent spending next summer. Bonner amnesty??...........Spurs hold a "team buyout" on his last year why do you keep bringing up amnesty when this provision is much cheaper????? True it would be harder for the Spurs to trade for him next year but being under the cap gives them tons of flexibility on any roster moves to include a big FA signing. I would just prefer not use up a ton of cap space before checking out early on the summer spending.

Uwe Blab 12-07-12 04:21 PM

I'm not exactly for trading for him, but his last two years are 9.1 and 9.8 million. Not exactly a bank buster. I just don't think there's a trade that will benefit the Spurs unless they are willing to let go of one of their expiring contracts. Manu won't be traded, so Jackson would be the obvious choice. But obviously Cleveland won't fall for that.

Either way, SA is not a place that FA come to, so I wouldn't try to clear cap space for anyone, especially with Manu and Tim about to retire.

WILLTHETHRILL 12-07-12 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uwe Blab (Post 1288315)
I'm not exactly for trading for him, but his last two years are 9.1 and 9.8 million. Not exactly a bank buster. I just don't think there's a trade that will benefit the Spurs unless they are willing to let go of one of their expiring contracts. Manu won't be traded, so Jackson would be the obvious choice. But obviously Cleveland won't fall for that.

Either way, SA is not a place that FA come to, so I wouldn't try to clear cap space for anyone, especially with Manu and Tim about to retire.

Well what do you suggest that they do?

Uwe Blab 12-07-12 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL (Post 1288316)
Well what do you suggest that they do?

Stand pat and get ready for the lottery in a couple of years. In all seriousness, there's no team this year that looks unbeatable. They may be able win this year with the current team.

Jose_TheGenius 12-07-12 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL (Post 1288311)
Wow Jose you really are that blind and deaf yet again on my posts?:laugh If you trade for Varajeo he has a big contract with a few more years still. Nothing against him I like him. But he he would eat up a ton of cap and the Spurs would be out of any major free agent spending next summer. Bonner amnesty??...........Spurs hold a "team buyout" on his last year why do you keep bringing up amnesty when this provision is much cheaper????? True it would be harder for the Spurs to trade for him next year but being under the cap gives them tons of flexibility on any roster moves to include a big FA signing. I would just prefer not use up a ton of cap space before checking out early on the summer spending.

actually no it's not.

Bonner being bought out for whatever amount you said ($1.5 million?) would be spent plus what his contract would count against the cap (earning $3.9 million next year). with the amnesty, Bonner's contract would count against the cap (not luxury tax) and he wouldn't get anything from the team.

taking in Varajeo in a trade that the Cavs would want (key phrase there, you have to look at it from the other end) would involve too many important players and even if we have free agency money for the offseason, SA hasn't been the most attractive place for free agents.

also factor in Varajeo is over performing on a bad team, this doesn't guarantee he'd play well next year either.

WILLTHETHRILL 12-07-12 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius (Post 1288320)
actually no it's not.

Bonner being bought out for whatever amount you said ($1.5 million?) would be spent plus what his contract would count against the cap (earning $3.9 million next year). with the amnesty, Bonner's contract would count against the cap (not luxury tax) and he wouldn't get anything from the team.

taking in Varajeo in a trade that the Cavs would want (key phrase there, you have to look at it from the other end) would involve too many important players and even if we have free agency money for the offseason, SA hasn't been the most attractive place for free agents.

also factor in Varajeo is over performing on a bad team, this doesn't guarantee he'd play well next year either.

Sorry Jose you are right many times but with myself involved your % goes way down. When the Spurs bought Antonio McDyess the actual salary paid was 2.6 million and the cap hit was...............2.6 million. Bonner has 1 million paid and the same 1 million cap hit. Yes Amnesty is no cap hit but they would have to pay him 3.9 million to go away. Amnesty is off the table in San Antonio.

Whatever deal involving Varajeo would have to include expiring contract/s agreed? SA has not been the most attractive FA place but during those times the CBA was different and lots of other teams had cap space and they themselves were not crummy teams either. Having cap space can engineer some good deals though. Example?? Look at when the Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and a middle first to the Wizards for the rights to a euro player who will never come to the NBA. That's a good deal for the Wiz. They flipped Kirk to Atlanta for a conditional first rounder. So they got a starter quality point guard and two first rounders just by having cap room. Having cap space makes you at least a player in the FA and trade markets. Sometimes also the draft market.

bigjosh721 12-07-12 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alh1020 (Post 1288291)
Where's my gun.................

With you on that one!


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