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  #51  
Old 10-29-12, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
Sam presti is taking the long view here. That means they will be a force to reckon with for years to come with assets acquired in this trade, but makes them slightly less in the correct this year.
the only good thing they acquired was 2 first round picks, but if Houston makes any noise in the playoffs, those won't be good picks at all.

problem they have, in my opinion, is Martin is a FA next year. they're over the cap, so if he walks, that means they're over the cap and won't have significant money. Add to that: Eric Maynor is also going to be a RFA next year and probably won't return.

i think this is more of a money saving type of deal while still drawing some fans in. i do think it killed their title chances because they won't be able to add more pieces. if they would've kept Harden with Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka, you could've used the MLE this year and next year to build a pretty good team to contend.

my 2 cents: i do think Harden is a way better player at his position and on that team than Westbrook is. the Thunder made a huge mistake giving Westbrook a big deal over Harden since Westbrook and Durant's game on the court really don't compliment each other.
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  #52  
Old 10-29-12, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
the only good thing they acquired was 2 first round picks, but if Houston makes any noise in the playoffs, those won't be good picks at all.

problem they have, in my opinion, is Martin is a FA next year. they're over the cap, so if he walks, that means they're over the cap and won't have significant money. Add to that: Eric Maynor is also going to be a RFA next year and probably won't return.

i think this is more of a money saving type of deal while still drawing some fans in. i do think it killed their title chances because they won't be able to add more pieces. if they would've kept Harden with Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka, you could've used the MLE this year and next year to build a pretty good team to contend.

my 2 cents: i do think Harden is a way better player at his position and on that team than Westbrook is. the Thunder made a huge mistake giving Westbrook a big deal over Harden since Westbrook and Durant's game on the court really don't compliment each other.
Solid post. This is the point. It hurts OKC mostly short-term. I know they are thinking of the future, which is good. However, I think they should've thought more about which players were more valuable.

I like Westbrook but Harden seemed to be to be the stabilizer offensively. He took so much pressure off of the Durant and Westbrook. No one else will command that much attention.

It is much like if the Spurs would've allowed Manu to walk at their peak. Sure he plays the 6th man role. Sure Tim was the cornerstone. Sure TP could take over in spurts offensively. Yet, there would have been no deep runs or playoff successes without Manu taking control. Harden BECAME that for OKC in a lesser sense. Teams would bear down on Durant as SA did last season and it didn't matter. Westbrook is unreliable in the 4th quarter but Harden was the more dependable leader down the stretch. Yet, they chose the enigmatic, erratic Westbrook (who's a great player, I know) over Harden. Again, Harden is NOT a bench player. He's a starter like Manu.

Anyhoo, better for the Spurs.
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  #53  
Old 10-29-12, 03:51 PM
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I actually like the trade for the Rockets.

Martin is a classic great stats on a bad team kind of guy. And he seriously cannot play defense. At all.
Lamb will likely be good, but not as good as Harden is today.
Draft picks after #3 can be great (K Leonard) or not so much (H Thabeet).
There is no guarantee.

Lin should be okay next year. McHale runs an offense that uses point guards to create.
Asik can't do much on offense, but word around town (radio, mostly), is that he's even better than expected on defense.
Harden is arguably a top 20 player. He's only 23. And he's about to be overpaid, but locked up for years.

At worst, the Rockets set themselves up to be what they were. #9 in the West. And the best damn lottery team you can be.
At best, they create a core for the next few years that improves. I'm hoping for the second.
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  #54  
Old 10-29-12, 06:55 PM
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This much is clear, OKC will have little wiggle room in the next off season to hold onto Martin (expiring contract) and Maynor. EIther way this is a cost cutting move and will certainly affect chemistry and title chances. Marc Stein's latest power rankings has Miami, SPURS, LAL, Bos and OKC as top 5 in the league. I think OKC and LA are more evenly matched now, but our corporate knowledge and even stronger chemistry will prove triumphant over any WCF foe. I hope to see growth from Kawhi and Green this year and a move to strengthen the Frontcourt while retaining Jackson.
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  #55  
Old 10-31-12, 04:30 PM
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Harden signs extension!

Harden signs a max deal of $80m for 5 yrs with the Rockets.
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  #56  
Old 10-31-12, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by td4mvp2k View Post
Harden signs a max deal of $80m for 5 yrs with the Rockets.
That was a given with the trade.
May even get HOU to the NBA minimum.

Max deals for non-max players always worry me. But with what HOU had and their complete inability to sign a top tier FA, it's what they had to do. He is easily (really, easily. Not Martin. Not Scola. Not any of the other thousand role players from the past 3 years) the best player the Rockets have had since a healthy Yao. We'll see how he, Lin and Asik gel.

Spurs don't have anything to worry about while Duncan is still playing (barring a weird super-gel), but it could lead to an ascending team in the next couple years.

Here's hoping.
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  #57  
Old 10-31-12, 10:51 PM
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Harden first in mvp race.
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  #58  
Old 10-31-12, 11:26 PM
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He sure put up Max Contract numbers tonight.
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  #59  
Old 11-01-12, 07:27 AM
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He sure put up Max Contract numbers tonight.
He certainly did............against Detroit.
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  #60  
Old 11-01-12, 11:11 AM
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Harden will be a big time scorer on a bad team, the league is full of those types of players.
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  #61  
Old 11-01-12, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 View Post
Harden will be a big time scorer on a bad team, the league is full of those types of players.
Houston's not a bad team. They may not be elite but they've got a fairly good squad. If they stay healthy and grow together, they could push into the playoffs.

Also, Harden was never able to show his true worth since he was relegated to a bench spark. He is a true upgrade from Kevin Martin. Martin is a perfect example of big numbers on a bad team. He's been that on each team he's been with. He is JUST a scorer.

Harden isn't just a Kevin Martin. Kevin Martin-type players don't snag 6 rebs and dish 12 assists to add to a 37-point performance. Those type of players are All-Stars.
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  #62  
Old 11-01-12, 11:50 AM
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I'll agree that Houston may not be Washington bad or Charlotte bad, but they're still a bad team and they're not going to make the playoffs this year.

From chron.com
"The Rockets’ starters — Omer Asik, Patrick Patterson, Chandler Parsons, James Harden and Jeremy Lin — have combined to start 98 games, led by the 57 games Parsons started as a rookie."

That is not a squad that will get far in the West. Maybe in two or three years they'll be worth something,but this year? Only if other teams collapse.

And don't forget,those number last night came against a really bad Detroit team. I'll be impressed when he does it consistently against real opponents.
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  #63  
Old 11-01-12, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 View Post
I'll agree that Houston may not be Washington bad or Charlotte bad, but they're still a bad team and they're not going to make the playoffs this year.

From chron.com
"The Rockets’ starters — Omer Asik, Patrick Patterson, Chandler Parsons, James Harden and Jeremy Lin — have combined to start 98 games, led by the 57 games Parsons started as a rookie."

That is not a squad that will get far in the West. Maybe in two or three years they'll be worth something,but this year? Only if other teams collapse.

And don't forget,those number last night came against a really bad Detroit team. I'll be impressed when he does it consistently against real opponents.
37-6-11 is good against any team but...OK.

However, you don't think it's possible for Houston to beat out Sacramento, Phoenix, Denver, New Orleans, Golden State or Utah for the 8th spot? It's not out of the realm of possibility. And any team that can make it to the playoffs in the West is a good team. Utah was a fairly good team last season until the Spurs dismantled them.

Houston's not a bad team. Put them in the East and I'm fairly confident they make the playoffs there.
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  #64  
Old 11-01-12, 12:25 PM
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37-6-11 is good against any team and the league is filled with the best player on bad teams putting up huge numbers against other bad teams and sometimes even against good teams.

And nope, I don't think they're going to beat out Denver or Utah. I think they'll be lucky to get close to a .500 season, the West is just way to strong and there's absolutely nobody on the Houston roster (outside of Harden) who has shown anything even remotely close to a consistent high level of play.

And you're right if they were in the East their chances would be better, but they're not, they're in the West, so rocket fans need to hope the ping-pong balls fall right for them at the next draft lottery so they can continue to get better.
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  #65  
Old 11-01-12, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 View Post

And you're right if they were in the East their chances would be better, but they're not, they're in the West, so rocket fans need to hope the ping-pong balls fall right for them at the next draft lottery so they can continue to get better.
And with the 14th pick in the 2013 NBA draft, the Houston Rockets take....

(sigh)
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  #66  
Old 11-01-12, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
my 2 cents: i do think Harden is a way better player at his position and on that team than Westbrook is. the Thunder made a huge mistake giving Westbrook a big deal over Harden since Westbrook and Durant's game on the court really don't compliment each other.
Youre not alone feeling that way. I think OKC will rue the day they gave Westbrook a MAX extension, but did not do the same with Harden whom we agree is a more valuable player since he is a playmaker and actually distributes the ball
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  #67  
Old 11-01-12, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 View Post
And you're right if they were in the East their chances would be better, but they're not, they're in the West, so rocket fans need to hope the ping-pong balls fall right for them at the next draft lottery so they can continue to get better.
Houston doesn't need to go through the draft to grab their other star. They will have enough cap room to offer a max contract to a free agent this summer ($20 Million in cap space). Their young talent and attractiveness as a big city market will make them a top free agent destination this summer. I think the best position for them to be in would be to slide in somewhere between the 7th and 10th position in the West. It would show a potential free agent that they are a good squad that is one piece away from contending for championships. Andrew Bynum's max contract would be 5 years, $100M. Correct me if I'm wrong, but $100M/5yrs = $20M per year.
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  #68  
Old 11-01-12, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 View Post
37-6-11 is good against any team and the league is filled with the best player on bad teams putting up huge numbers against other bad teams and sometimes even against good teams.

And nope, I don't think they're going to beat out Denver or Utah. I think they'll be lucky to get close to a .500 season, the West is just way to strong and there's absolutely nobody on the Houston roster (outside of Harden) who has shown anything even remotely close to a consistent high level of play.

And you're right if they were in the East their chances would be better, but they're not, they're in the West, so rocket fans need to hope the ping-pong balls fall right for them at the next draft lottery so they can continue to get better.
Time will tell but I see Utah and Denver at the same level as Houston. I think Houston's got a chance. You say no one's been consistent on Houston but none of their players have had the opportunity to really prove it either way. They are all really young with a lotta potential. I think you'll have a real reason to judge after a full year.

I'm not sayin they'll be a playoff team but I wouldn't be surprised if they snuck in. Other than the usuals, the bottom half aren't head and shoulders above them. If they can stay healthy, they can reasonably sneak in at #8.

Guess we have different ideas of what constitutes a bad team. When you say bad team, I'm thinkin Phoenix.
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  #69  
Old 11-01-12, 07:29 PM
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Keep in mind that the same problem (punitive luxury tax) that forced OKC to dump Harden will also force many other teams to do the same with their "odd man out" in the next few years.

So Presti may have lost his 3rd of the big 3, but he could get one back when the same reality hits other franchises.
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  #70  
Old 11-01-12, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
Keep in mind that the same problem (punitive luxury tax) that forced OKC to dump Harden will also force many other teams to do the same with their "odd man out" in the next few years.

So Presti may have lost his 3rd of the big 3, but he could get one back when the same reality hits other franchises.
Problem is Houston acquired a very lucrative television contract which will help absorb the luxury tax costs once they're over the cap limit. Much like the Lakers, but not as much, Houston is financially better off than majority of teams in the sense that they won't need to worry about over-spending
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  #71  
Old 11-01-12, 08:01 PM
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I'm not discounting that. What I'm saying is that there will be many other teams not in a position to overspin due to the luxury tax, and other teams will have their own James Harden they will have to let walk. OKC may get the benefit that down the line.
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  #72  
Old 11-01-12, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
I'm not discounting that. What I'm saying is that there will be many other teams not in a position to overspin due to the luxury tax, and other teams will have their own James Harden they will have to let walk. OKC may get the benefit that down the line.
I'm sure it will continue to happen across the league. I'm curious about Rubio if he comes back from his surgery and underperforms
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  #73  
Old 11-02-12, 08:55 PM
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HaHa... Great job Presti... EOY ya right...
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  #74  
Old 11-02-12, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by td4mvp2k View Post
HaHa... Great job Presti... EOY ya right...
James Hardin just dropped 45 on Atl. Westbrook singlehandedly lost a game to a Manu-less Spurs playing on the second night of a back to back. Presti picked the wrong guard.

Last edited by b1gdon; 11-02-12 at 09:54 PM.
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  #75  
Old 11-02-12, 10:56 PM
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Harden's runnin outta bad teams to drop 30+ on. Lin with anutha good line.
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  #76  
Old 11-03-12, 04:38 AM
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Dude is straight balling. Definitely fun to watch regardless of playoff chances
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  #77  
Old 11-03-12, 09:56 AM
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After two games against two bad teams,this is what you find on Yahoo. Under the headline "Jeremy Lin and James Harden are the NBA’s best backcourt."

Jeremy Lin and James Harden are the NBA?s best backcourt. Do not argue. | Ball Don't Lie - Yahoo! Sports
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  #78  
Old 11-04-12, 08:54 PM
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Dude is straight balling. Definitely fun to watch regardless of playoff chances
word
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  #79  
Old 11-05-12, 09:29 AM
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we should give them blair. he is surely gonna be a double double machine. 15/15 guy if he gets the minutes on a team that let him do his thing like he did back in Pitt.
or send him to Indiana... could see the Hill/Blair thing going again.
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