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  #1  
Old 07-02-12, 03:59 AM
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What the Spurs really have to work with moneywise...

With a trio of All-Stars (see: Duncan, Parker, Ginobili) eating up cap space for the better part of a decade, the Spurs simply haven’t had room on the payroll to take on other high-dollar additions. Even with free agent Tim Duncan set to perhaps take a 50-percent pay cut from the $21.2 million he was on the books for last season, this summer promises to be quiet as well. Last year’s salary cap was $57 million; before Duncan makes another cent, the Spurs are already on the hook for nearly $50 million in salaries for 2012-13. Once Duncan signs, the Spurs are all but certain to be over the salary cap again, leaving them with only the mid-level exception, biannual exception and veteran minimum contracts with which to lure other free agents.

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  #2  
Old 07-02-12, 12:31 PM
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So, in other words, the Spurs will get as far as OKC again and lose. And that's assuming Manu and TP stay healthy.
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  #3  
Old 07-02-12, 12:40 PM
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That's probable, but then again that's how life works. Teams face that same problem against the Spurs.

But if we add Marcus Camby, suddenly our perimeter defenders can play a lot tighter and more aggressively, like OKC's could against us. We bring back Green and suddenly we don't have to score 115 points to beat OKC. Then we've got a reasonably good shot at beating them.

And OKC has its own issues with Harden and Ibaka extensions looming. The money crunch hits every team sooner or later.
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  #4  
Old 07-02-12, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
So, in other words, the Spurs will get as far as OKC again and lose. And that's assuming Manu and TP stay healthy.
well kind of. that's assuming OKC can keep Ibaka and Harden (not likely).

i'd be interesting to see what Lorbek would ask for. if we can nab him for the Bi-Annual Exception and if Camby were to take the vet minimum, we have a whole MLE to work with
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  #5  
Old 07-02-12, 02:49 PM
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Personally I don't think the bridge between the Spurs and Thunder is that great. That series came down to ridiculous (or bull****) shooting by Ibaka and Perkins in Game 4. The Spurs played well enough to win that game.

I do like the prospects of putting Patty Mills in a Spurs training camp and giving him a chance to run the backup point next year (if he is re-signed)

Most teams don't have 4 max players on their roster. Will be interesting to see what OKC does.
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  #6  
Old 07-02-12, 03:02 PM
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Looking on the bright side? What kind of pessimist are you?
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  #7  
Old 07-02-12, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
Personally I don't think the bridge between the Spurs and Thunder is that great. That series came down to ridiculous (or bull****) shooting by Ibaka and Perkins in Game 4. The Spurs played well enough to win that game.

I do like the prospects of putting Patty Mills in a Spurs training camp and giving him a chance to run the backup point next year (if he is re-signed)

Most teams don't have 4 max players on their roster. Will be interesting to see what OKC does.
I still think the 'bridge' was that OKC spent a couple games trying to figure out SA, and then adapted.
The Spurs got through the regular season doing one thing well, and that was sharing the ball. OKC figured out how to stop that, and everything else fell apart. The Spurs had no fallback plan, like tough defense or an unstoppable scorer.

If a team has nothing to do but spend a couple weeks trying to figure out how to stop SA, they can do it.
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  #8  
Old 07-02-12, 04:47 PM
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^^^^ That is true.

I love TP, Manu, and TD, but there are problems with all 3. TP isn't big enough, a good enough shooter, or athletic enough to just use raw talent to take over games if he's the defensive focal point.

Manu is similar. If you put an athletic beast on him and pack the paint, not much he can do.

TD is still solid but not a guy who can just take over games consistently at will from the low block.

We have a bunch of guys who are good shooters and scorers, but nobody who can just go bat excrement insane for 10-15 points in a quarter, like Jamal Crawford, OJ Mayo, Tyreke Evans, etc.

Gary Neal is kind of a b- version of that for the regular season. At times so is Blair.

But nobody we have is an elite level light it up guy.

With the shift in the league toward offense, it would be nice to have a guy like that.

The flip side is I'd like to have a shotblocker/rebounder like Camby because one difference between us and OKC is our defenders were somewhat limited as to how tight we could play on the perimeter because we had limited shotblocking at the rim. Whereas OKC guys could wildly overplay passing lanes and play extremely tight on the perimeter and Ibaka had their back.

They could actually play it both ways. Sag into the paint against certain players and play tight against others, and over-react to recovery/rotation situations because Ibaka could clean up the mess.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-12, 05:17 PM
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Why are we using OKC as the measuring stick here. Did OKC win the NBA Championship? Was it even close?
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  #10  
Old 07-02-12, 05:26 PM
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OKC didn't win the championship, but they beat us, so they're our measuring stick to get better.

Especially considering that nobody in the West can conceivably beat them if healthy. Or am I wrong?

They beat Dallas, LA, and us. We whipped Utah and the LAC. Memphis couldn't even beat the hapless Clippers.

We can't really use the Heat as a measuring stick since we didn't play them. But we can tell from 4 consecutive losses where our weak spots are vs. the Thunder.
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  #11  
Old 07-03-12, 12:03 AM
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We must build a team to win the NBA FINALS not the Westerns Conference. That*is a tall order both literally and figuratively.
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  #12  
Old 07-03-12, 12:34 AM
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I get that, but we gotta beat OKC to even get there.
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  #13  
Old 07-03-12, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
I get that, but we gotta beat OKC to even get there.
it won't even be the same OKC team. they're cash strapped and may keep either Harden or Ibaka (and keeping one isn't even a given).

if they lose Harden, they'll still have Maynor and may get other pieces. if they lose Ibaka, then they'll lose their best big man and one that comes every handful of years. i don't think they'll go back to the Finals.
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  #14  
Old 07-03-12, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
it won't even be the same OKC team. they're cash strapped and may keep either Harden or Ibaka (and keeping one isn't even a given).

if they lose Harden, they'll still have Maynor and may get other pieces. if they lose Ibaka, then they'll lose their best big man and one that comes every handful of years. i don't think they'll go back to the Finals.
You can't depend on the getting better by hoping that the team that beat you gets worse.

Spurs went on a crazy roll late in the season. They beat some scrub teams, they beat a couple good teams.
They beat a couple teams in the playoffs that had no playoff experience. Both teams gave up early. When they hit a team that had SOME playoff experience, they ran into trouble. That team adapted, figured out how to stop the Spurs a step at a time, and finally won.

The Spurs are not a team that can adapt so quickly in a seven game series. The VERY FIRST TIME they lost in the playoffs, they had no answer. They never won again. That can't be dismissed with 'Well, OKC can't resign all their guys. We'll be fine'.
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  #15  
Old 07-03-12, 05:19 PM
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Can't a large portion of the lose to the Thunder be placed at the feet of Pop and Tony? It was up to Pop to come up with a rotation and a plan to counter what the Thunder did, and it was up to Tony to implement the plan and get folks going.

Now granted some players didn't play as well under the pressure as they did during the regular season (Green, Splitter, Manu and the big red scoring machine) but it seems to me that with this experience under Green and Splitter's belts (if Green comes back) the Spurs will be in fairly good shape next year.

They rebounded from the butt kicking that Memphis gave them last year and I think they can rebound from what OKC did.

The Lakers didn't and don't have enough fire power to keep up with them, the mavs suffered from championship hangover and they got really old and slow with no defense.
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  #16  
Old 07-03-12, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWi101 View Post
Can't a large portion of the lose to the Thunder be placed at the feet of Pop and Tony? It was up to Pop to come up with a rotation and a plan to counter what the Thunder did, and it was up to Tony to implement the plan and get folks going..
you think Pop should get some of the blame?

get in line, us Spurs fans who think that apparently are blasphemers and don't know what we're talking about
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  #17  
Old 07-03-12, 05:45 PM
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The one-dimensional abilities of the Spurs need to blamed on RC and Pop down to the D-League.

Start with CBA limitations when you have more than a few really good players who make a lot of money. Then you can't just sign other really good players.

Pop has to deal with declining players who can't move their collective feet. Preferred method of 'defense first' deferred to 'make do'.

Players are asked to participate in 'team first' attitude. This actually works. Fans are stoked!

Team wins lots of regular season games by out-scoring the opponent. Fans are stoked!

Teams wins first couple rounds on playoffs by SWEEPING opponents! Fans are talking about sweeping the playoffs.

Spurs lose when OKC has time to exploit Spurs weaknesses. Spurs never win again.

Did I miss anything?
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  #18  
Old 07-03-12, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
The one-dimensional abilities of the Spurs need to blamed on RC and Pop down to the D-League.

Start with CBA limitations when you have more than a few really good players who make a lot of money. Then you can't just sign other really good players.

Pop has to deal with declining players who can't move their collective feet. Preferred method of 'defense first' deferred to 'make do'.

Players are asked to participate in 'team first' attitude. This actually works. Fans are stoked!

Team wins lots of regular season games by out-scoring the opponent. Fans are stoked!

Teams wins first couple rounds on playoffs by SWEEPING opponents! Fans are talking about sweeping the playoffs.

Spurs lose when OKC has time to exploit Spurs weaknesses. Spurs never win again.

Did I miss anything?
you forgot the free coffee after Spurs win playoff games, just gets people way too hyper out there
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  #19  
Old 07-03-12, 06:33 PM
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Well, the FO has only so much to work with. We have been "cursed" with being one of the top 4 teams in the league for nearly 20 years. So all the draft picks are in the late rounds. Sure there have been a few gems, but only Tony, Manu and probably Kawhi have turned out to be more than just role players. In addition to that, the Spurs have had to give away draft picks so they can acquire free agents. And because of the three stars we've had, there hasn't been a lot of money to go around. So those free agents have to be guys at the tail end of their career or specialty players. AND NOW, the Spurs are just good enough to get to the playoffs and compete, no longer good enough to get over the hump. So they are STILL stuck in the later rounds of the draft and with over the hill free agents.

So yeah, it seems like the FO fault, but I guarantee that OKC will be in the same boat at some point. Such is the circle of life in the NBA. Hakuna Matata motherf###er.
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  #20  
Old 07-03-12, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
Well, the FO has only so much to work with. We have been "cursed" with being one of the top 4 teams in the league for nearly 20 years. So all the draft picks are in the late rounds. Sure there have been a few gems, but only Tony, Manu and probably Kawhi have turned out to be more than just role players. In addition to that, the Spurs have had to give away draft picks so they can acquire free agents. And because of the three stars we've had, there hasn't been a lot of money to go around. So those free agents have to be guys at the tail end of their career or specialty players. AND NOW, the Spurs are just good enough to get to the playoffs and compete, no longer good enough to get over the hump. So they are STILL stuck in the later rounds of the draft and with over the hill free agents.

So yeah, it seems like the FO fault, but I guarantee that OKC will be in the same boat at some point. Such is the circle of life in the NBA. Hakuna Matata motherf###er.
so getting to the WCF is "just getting into the playoffs"? we were 2 wins from being in the NBA Finals, that's much more than just getting into the playoffs.

if we get lucky in finding another Kawhi somewhere or if Lorbek/De Colo can bring more scoring and defense in their positions than Green brought, there's no reason to think we couldn't get back there by losing one piece in Danny Green.
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  #21  
Old 07-03-12, 10:07 PM
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I think we are in great position. Keep in mind our star players aren't demanding the kind of contracts other players have. TD is the only one who was over $20 mil and even that was less than he could've asked for. Manu and TP are highly paid but not by league-wide standards. You could find 3 guys who are paid more than them and lower on the productivity/all-NBA charts for every one on a non-rookie deal that makes less.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-12, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
so getting to the WCF is "just getting into the playoffs"? we were 2 wins from being in the NBA Finals, that's much more than just getting into the playoffs.

if we get lucky in finding another Kawhi somewhere or if Lorbek/De Colo can bring more scoring and defense in their positions than Green brought, there's no reason to think we couldn't get back there by losing one piece in Danny Green.
Well they didn't get over the hump, did they? More like a mountain than a hump. They lost 4 in a row, remember?

Hopefully, Kawhi gets ahead of the curve and turns into an all star type player sooner than later. But don't expect much from the foreign guys next year (or any year). This team needs another all star level player, not soft foreign big men. A little more defense is nice, but no one is going to stop OKC or Miami in the 4th quarter. You have to be able to keep with up them.
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  #23  
Old 07-04-12, 06:57 AM
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so getting to the WCF is "just getting into the playoffs"? we were 2 wins from being in the NBA Finals, that's much more than just getting into the playoffs.
And in the next four games, the Spurs won a total of zero. OKC will be better next year, given the experience they acquired in the playoffs. Spurs will be older. There is no evidence that the Spurs would take a series against the Thunder in any round.
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  #24  
Old 07-04-12, 01:34 PM
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And in the next four games, the Spurs won a total of zero. OKC will be better next year, given the experience they acquired in the playoffs. Spurs will be older. There is no evidence that the Spurs would take a series against the Thunder in any round.
you think so? i think Durant may be better as a player, but team wise, they'll lose either Ibaka or Harden (2 of the guys that burned us). heck even keeping both may not be a given if a team decides to offer something ridiculous to both. the Thunder are about to get Spencer Hawes. don't know about you, but imo that's a major drop off from Ibaka. no idea how Maynor's injury effects him next year either and probably no Derek Fisher returning. i can't think of anyone who can contribute to their team like Harden has either as 6th Man of the year.
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  #25  
Old 07-04-12, 06:48 PM
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you think so? i think Durant may be better as a player, but team wise, they'll lose either Ibaka or Harden (2 of the guys that burned us). heck even keeping both may not be a given if a team decides to offer something ridiculous to both. the Thunder are about to get Spencer Hawes. don't know about you, but imo that's a major drop off from Ibaka. no idea how Maynor's injury effects him next year either and probably no Derek Fisher returning. i can't think of anyone who can contribute to their team like Harden has either as 6th Man of the year.
Well, shoot,I don't know, but maybe that's not an issue since both Harden and Ibaka are under contract next year. The Thunder need to do, uhm, nothing to secure their services. Hence, I don't see them losing either unless the charter leaves early.

I may be wrong, but everything I've read says both get a qualifying offer next summer. You know, when the Spurs are TWO years older.
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  #26  
Old 07-04-12, 07:15 PM
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Well, shoot,I don't know, but maybe that's not an issue since both Harden and Ibaka are under contract next year. The Thunder need to do, uhm, nothing to secure their services. Hence, I don't see them losing either unless the charter leaves early.

I may be wrong, but everything I've read says both get a qualifying offer next summer. You know, when the Spurs are TWO years older.
so you think they're both gonna accept qualifying offers of $7 million and $4 million respectively? do you let them play out the year then try to sign them to max contracts next to Westbrook and Durant? OKC wouldn't be able to afford being repeated luxury tax offenders.

it would be shocking if they don't deal one of them because they'd have to let one walk in FA (similar to what the Grizzlies did with OJ Mayo) unless you think they're going to be going for a "win it all next year and just break up the team" scenario where one title is good enough. conventional wisdom would be Presti not waiting until next year to do something with those 2, even if it means a mid season trade.
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