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  #1  
Old 06-22-12, 03:01 PM
InegoMontoya's Avatar
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Lets be honest... about the roster

So i have been looking at all these trade suggestions and free agency ideas and while bearing in mind that the spurs arent usually big movers and shakers I have been wondering what the roster would probably be like next year...

In my opinion these guys are coming back...
Tony Parker
Manu
Leonard
Diaw
(I think he is just too good of an offensive fit for us to let go. He may cost us more then we would like but i think we resign him. he will be even better with a full offseason with us)
Duncan
joseph
(we drafted him for his potential, not his current ability.)
neal (he is a good spark off the bench. not a backup pg, but an eddie house type guy)
jackson
Lorbek(ok, not coming back but coming over)
tiago


This means one way or another we are getting rid of and will need to replace...
Blair (trade)
Bonner (trade)
Mills (he walks)
Anderson (he walks)
Green (sign and trade hopefully. We may end up keeping green, I think it depends on how they think nando has progressed)

I think lorbek replaces and is an improvement over bonner.
I think if Joseph improves enough to play backup pg then the combination of him and neal make mills expendable.
Andersoon is simply replaced at the end of the bench by neal or joseph who was inactive last season.
I believe we package blair, bonner and green in order to get into the early 2nd or late 1st round of the draft.
We would also need to bring over another Euro player, possibly decolo to replace greens niche.
That would leave us with one remaining roster spot for a free agent or an undrafted guy... Im not one of you salary cap guru's so this may all be incredibly impossible under our current cap but It seems feasible.
that leaves us with a roster looking something like this...
parker, joseph
manu, decolo, neal
Leonard, jackson,
Diaw, lorbek,
duncan, splitter
a late 1st/early 2nd round draft pick and a free agent

Now on to my real question, and obviously a lot would depend on who the draft pick and the free agent are, but if this is our roster going into next year, is it enough? are the few changes made enough to get us another ring? is that lineup even better than the one we had this year?
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  #2  
Old 06-22-12, 03:06 PM
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I agree with your projected lineup. I think it is almost enough, but not quite. I think Lorbek will be great, but he will not provide what we are missing. What we are missing is Kawhi Leonard at the PF/C spot. If we were able to trade the guys you mentioned (and maybe even Splitter) to get a PF/C who was long enough to protect the rim, yet athletic enough to guard the pick and roll, we would be set.
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  #3  
Old 06-22-12, 03:34 PM
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I agree we need a Kawhi type at the 4 or 5. That is certainly in an ideal world but i dont really want to give up on splitter to get him. I think green blair and bonner would be enough to get us a pick,and then depending how we go in the draft we fill out the roster with a cheap to moderate FA... but I also agree that the roster is lacking length, and athleticism at the 4/5 spot.
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  #4  
Old 06-22-12, 04:16 PM
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So, with the MLE, you are going to pay Diaw, Lorbek, De Colo, and a free agent. And still have a couple roster spots to fill.

Bonner and Blair will both most likely be back.

If we want to be honest about the roster.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-12, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
So, with the MLE, you are going to pay Diaw, Lorbek, De Colo, and a free agent. And still have a couple roster spots to fill.

Bonner and Blair will both most likely be back.

If we want to be honest about the roster.
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  #6  
Old 06-22-12, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
Ding ding ding.

Rules be dammed, spend that money!
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  #7  
Old 06-22-12, 07:45 PM
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Danny Greens contract is affordable but he is a rfa. The Celtics seem to interested in acquiring him. Instead of renewing his contract, why not trade him for #21-22 draft picks? With Lorbek coming over, why do we need Bonner? He should be made part of a trade for the first round. Splitter rightly is one of the question marks. Why not trade him for a high ist round draft? Add some players to sweeten the pot and trade to the Bobcats or the Raptors or one of the teams with multiple 1st round draft picks. Blair would an attractive trade bait for a high 2nd round draft pick. Talks seem to point that the Spurs are interested in O'Quinn or Sims or Tony Wroten if available to compensate for the loss of Mills. And finally, Jackson. No doubt that he was one of the better acquisitions but his contract is ridiculously very high. Unless he is willing to have his salary restructured, he should be traded if there are teams willing to take him. His current take is $10m. This is too much. Maybe he should be sent to the Hawks for a draft pick with a salary of say $2m. Just to sweeten the pot, add some players in the deal. The Spurs stand to save $8m enough to join the free agency. Send Joseph to the Magic if deColo is coming over for Daniel Orton, a player rarely used.

Last edited by Wesley33177; 06-22-12 at 07:47 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-22-12, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley33177 View Post
Danny Greens contract is affordable but he is a rfa. The Celtics seem to interested in acquiring him. Instead of renewing his contract, why not trade him for #21-22 draft picks? With Lorbek coming over, why do we need Bonner? He should be made part of a trade for the first round. Splitter rightly is one of the question marks. Why not trade him for a high ist round draft? Add some players to sweeten the pot and trade to the Bobcats or the Raptors or one of the teams with multiple 1st round drafts. Blair would an attractive trade bait for a high 2nd round draft. Talks seem to point that the Spurs are interested in O'Quinn or Sims or Tony Wroten if available to compensate for the loss of Mills. And finally, Jackson. No doubt that he was one of the better acquisitions but his contract is ridiculously very high. Unless he is willing to have his salary restructured, he should be traded if there are teams willing to take him. His current take is $10m. This is too much. Maybe he should be sent to the Hawks for a draft pick with a salary of say $2m. Just to sweeten the pot, add some players in the deal. The Spurs stand to save $8m enough to join the free agency. Send Joseph to the Magic if deColo is coming over for Daniel Orton, a player rarely used.
You can't trade Green/Mills/etc. because the draft is before the free agent period. Also on a sign and trade the player has to agree to it too. It's not easy to do sign and trade deals.
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  #9  
Old 06-22-12, 09:36 PM
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Pop won't get rid of splitter...then, again, I didn't think he would trade Hill, either
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  #10  
Old 06-22-12, 10:19 PM
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What im afraid of is Pop wanting to keep Bonner instead of Splitter.
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  #11  
Old 06-22-12, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainlate View Post
Pop won't get rid of splitter...then, again, I didn't think he would trade Hill, either
Exactly.

I only advocate getting rid of Splitter if you are getting that K. Leonard type in return.
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  #12  
Old 06-23-12, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley33177 View Post
What im afraid of is Pop wanting to keep Bonner instead of Splitter.
I'm guessing he's going to keep both.

Hill had more value than Splitter has now. Hill was also thought to be the missing piece for IND. And it still didn't draw a lottery pick.

Bonner, for all his playoff faults, is still valuable during the regular season. No coach coming through Texas develops a game plan to stop Bonner on a Tuesday night game. Not with Tony, Timmy and Manu also on the floor. And with Dirk Wednesday. So Bonner gets his shot off.
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  #13  
Old 06-23-12, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
I'm guessing he's going to keep both.

Hill had more value than Splitter has now. Hill was also thought to be the missing piece for IND. And it still didn't draw a lottery pick.

Bonner, for all his playoff faults, is still valuable during the regular season. No coach coming through Texas develops a game plan to stop Bonner on a Tuesday night game. Not with Tony, Timmy and Manu also on the floor. And with Dirk Wednesday. So Bonner gets his shot off.
This is ridiculous! OKC was guarding bonner with their damn point guard! So he got to stand on defense and be refreshed for offense. Not once did bonner even try to post him up. That is 6'10" over 6'3".

If this doesn't tell pop to get rid of him nothing will. Lorbek can come over and shoot and post up point guards. Stephen jackson can play the 4 and shoot 3's and post up point guards.

Quit making damn excuses for bonner. Who cars if he his a couple threes in january.
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  #14  
Old 06-23-12, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mataipaepae View Post
This is ridiculous! OKC was guarding bonner with their damn point guard! So he got to stand on defense and be refreshed for offense. Not once did bonner even try to post him up. That is 6'10" over 6'3".

If this doesn't tell pop to get rid of him nothing will. Lorbek can come over and shoot and post up point guards. Stephen jackson can play the 4 and shoot 3's and post up point guards.

Quit making damn excuses for bonner. Who cars if he his a couple threes in january.

the man said regular season....and he's right no plans for bonner in the reg season, playoffs when you see the same team over and over is another story...
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  #15  
Old 06-23-12, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my2sons View Post
the man said regular season....and he's right no plans for bonner in the reg season, playoffs when you see the same team over and over is another story...
Ok then let's just keep banging our hear against the same wall for a guy who will hit a couple 3's in january, then give you nothing when it matters. Answer this. Do you think bonner its the reason we make the playoffs or not? Because if you answer no then why keep him around? So teams like OKC can guard parker with sefalosha because their damn point guard can guard our C/PF who can't post up?
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  #16  
Old 06-23-12, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mataipaepae View Post
Ok then let's just keep banging our hear against the same wall for a guy who will hit a couple 3's in january, then give you nothing when it matters. Answer this. Do you think bonner its the reason we make the playoffs or not? Because if you answer no then why keep him around? So teams like OKC can guard parker with sefalosha because their damn point guard can guard our C/PF who can't post up?
Playoffs, no. First seed, yes.
Spurs thrive on the three pointer. Parker doesn't have near the season he had if the Spurs aren't hitting from the outside. One of the reasons the Spurs have this game plan is because of Bonner, Leonard, et al.

Don't ignore the fact that Bonner is a top shooter in the league.
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  #17  
Old 06-23-12, 07:37 PM
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Bonner
11% FG% WCF
14% 3 point FG% WCF
31% FG% 2012 playoffs
34% 3 point FG% 2012 playoffs

I rest my case..........
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  #18  
Old 06-23-12, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
Playoffs, no. First seed, yes.
Spurs thrive on the three pointer. Parker doesn't have near the season he had if the Spurs aren't hitting from the outside. One of the reasons the Spurs have this game plan is because of Bonner, Leonard, et al.

Don't ignore the fact that Bonner is a top shooter in the league.
Don't ignore the fact that Bonner has been a playoff choker with the spurs for the past few season. He plays scared and he's useless in the playoffs. Time to get that sandwich eating mother****er off the team.
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  #19  
Old 06-23-12, 08:08 PM
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Bonner plays a roll in the grand scheme of things, nothing more, nothing less.
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  #20  
Old 06-23-12, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clovisnmspurfan View Post
Bonner plays a roll in the grand scheme of things, nothing more, nothing less.
True but he can't even do what he was brought here to do. Regular season he performs but playoffs 2 minutes the last two playoff games and why? Because they can't trust him. The coach sat him down not me! He sucks in the postseason!
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  #21  
Old 06-23-12, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
Playoffs, no. First seed, yes.
Its not like first seed really helped Spurs in the past two seasons.
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  #22  
Old 06-23-12, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurs_believer View Post
Its not like first seed really helped Spurs in the past two seasons.
I think it helped this year. Spurs likely don't make the WCF coming from the bottom half of the bracket.
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  #23  
Old 06-23-12, 11:40 PM
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Bonner
11% FG% WCF
14% 3 point FG% WCF
31% FG% 2012 playoffs
34% 3 point FG% 2012 playoffs

I rest my case..........
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  #24  
Old 06-24-12, 12:48 AM
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Lots of guys we want o keep no showed vs okc.
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  #25  
Old 06-24-12, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
Playoffs, no. First seed, yes.
Spurs thrive on the three pointer. Parker doesn't have near the season he had if the Spurs aren't hitting from the outside. One of the reasons the Spurs have this game plan is because of Bonner, Leonard, et al.

Don't ignore the fact that Bonner is a top shooter in the league.
Bonner is trash, stop it, he should not even be on the damn team now, he is what he is and thats nothing when it counts. F the #1 seed, we had that two years in a row and it ammounted to nothing later on and he did as well! He fades before the playoffs infact, stop sticking up for this piece of crap he is garbage the second half of the season to the playoffs. He is what I CALL A GUY WHO DOES NOT HAVE THAT IT, he doesn't HAVE IT.
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You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #26  
Old 06-24-12, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
Bonner
11% FG% WCF
14% 3 point FG% WCF
31% FG% 2012 playoffs
34% 3 point FG% 2012 playoffs

I rest my case..........
It's a given he is garbage and we all know it, for those who stick up for him at all they are not thinking of winning a thing or just feel sorry for that bozo! He is horrible and we have seen it over and over, he sucks and doesn't HAVE IT that Horry had etc. He is a clown and should be gone IMO, would not care at all if he is gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
I think it helped this year. Spurs likely don't make the WCF coming from the bottom half of the bracket.
So Bonner was huge part of why we got 1st seed although he faded before the later run in March and April? Spurs made it there for what? To lose again? He is a part of the playoff bums that make us lose, forget that #1 seed if you don't get to the finals nor win it! Who cares at all really if you aren't going to make them a better team in the playoffs nor show up? Seriously whats the point?
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Win or lose this is a game -
You could let it pick your brain for weeks and months, just replay it over and over, won't do you any good at all. When someone loses a loved one and they do that it only brings forth anguish. I feel acceptance is sometimes the key, it happened, now you have to react to it. Giving up is not an option.
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  #27  
Old 06-24-12, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
Lots of guys we want o keep no showed vs okc.
Some of them can perform better or has performed better before.

As for Bonner, can you honestly tell me that he can perform better in playoffs?
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  #28  
Old 06-24-12, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzarector7 View Post

So Bonner was huge part of why we got 1st seed although he faded before the later run in March and April? Spurs made it there for what? To lose again? He is a part of the playoff bums that make us lose, forget that #1 seed if you don't get to the finals nor win it! Who cares at all really if you aren't going to make them a better team in the playoffs nor show up? Seriously whats the point?
Man alive, Spurs fans are spoiled.

There are 14 teams that would have loved to have made the playoffs.
One of those teams hasn't seen the playoffs in 3 years, even though it's led by one Luis Scola.
There are another dozen that would have loved to have participated in the conference finals. Like the defending champs. Or the entitled Lakers.

How about a little appreciation for what the Spurs accomplished?
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  #29  
Old 06-24-12, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spurs_believer View Post
Some of them can perform better or has performed better before.

As for Bonner, can you honestly tell me that he can perform better in playoffs?
So, instead of blaming those who under-performed, you take the easy route.

Why use analysis when you have an easy scapegoat already available?
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  #30  
Old 06-24-12, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
Man alive, Spurs fans are spoiled.

There are 14 teams that would have loved to have made the playoffs.
One of those teams hasn't seen the playoffs in 3 years, even though it's led by one Luis Scola.
There are another dozen that would have loved to have participated in the conference finals. Like the defending champs. Or the entitled Lakers.

How about a little appreciation for what the Spurs accomplished?
Bonner
11% FG% WCF
14% 3 point FG% WCF
31% FG% 2012 playoffs
34% 3 point FG% 2012 playoffs

Suck on it!
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  #31  
Old 06-24-12, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
So, instead of blaming those who under-performed, you take the easy route.

Why use analysis when you have an easy scapegoat already available?
The Bonner lovers will say they need a guy to stand on the 3 point to miss shots because TP and Manu would have never made an all star game without him spreading the floor. Funny thing is the Spurs won without Bonner on the floor or before he even got to SA. They love a regular season stalwart who misses shots in the playoffs and than they turn around and blame the Big 3 over it. The last three title banners are on the rafters because of the Big 3 not from the Red Rocket idiots! Do we need to bring out the stats for the Thunder series or 2012 overall playoff stats?

Suck it!
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  #32  
Old 06-24-12, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
So, instead of blaming those who under-performed, you take the easy route.
How did you know that I won't blame others as well?

I was debating on Bonner's value to the team.

As a matter of fact, there are some truth in it, and it is the sad part. If an one-dimensional three point shooter is the important fact for Spurs to get to the top seed and yet the same player can't be depended on AT ALL in playoffs then there's a system problem. In the past, Spurs might be able to get around this because Spurs had players who could step up in big games and/or Spurs had stingy defense to fall back to. Now that Spurs had neither so this 'value' is simple fool's gold.

For a while, I was quite annoyed with Bonner because I watched his shoot release on TV and I realized that a 6'0" guard can easily defend his three point shooting. Then I accepted the fact that he's what he is: he will never perform consistently in the playoffs due to his limitations. Actually, after reading some articles on him that I started to like him as a person.

As a matter of fact, I don't want to get rid of him just to get rid of him. It's not a wise business plan. I just think his value to make Pop's offensive plan easier in the regular seasons as some forum members observed has already gone beyond its expiry date for a number of years.
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  #33  
Old 06-24-12, 07:41 PM
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Point taken. But until the blame is spread, there is no reason to believe that it will expand beyond Bonner.

There are those that blame the loss on a two minute stretch of a game long ago. And the same people point out that Bonner didn't even play in later games. So the Spurs' loss can be blamed on both the presence of the Red Rocket, and his absence.

Only here can one man have such an impact on the game, regardless of whether he plays or not.

As for his release, it is what it is.
It's one of the top shooting strokes for the entire regular season.
And easily stopped in a 7 game series.

Last edited by katyspursfan; 06-24-12 at 07:43 PM.
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  #34  
Old 06-24-12, 07:47 PM
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Bonner
11% FG% WCF
14% 3 point FG% WCF
31% FG% 2012 playoffs
34% 3 point FG% 2012 playoffs
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  #35  
Old 06-25-12, 02:44 AM
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Wow, I'm gone for a week and this place blows up, mostly over Bonner. I'm kind of known as a Bonner apologist, but I realize that he faded in the end. I'm also a smart person. And I realize that most of the role players faded in the end. I'm also a realist. And I realize that the reason the Spurs lost was because OKC had the better stars. It wasn't their role players that kept making clutch shots in the last minutes of the 4th quarters. It was Durant, Harden, and sometimes Westbrook. And it was James, Wade and sometimes Bosh that won the championship. So the fools can keep thinking that all the Spurs need to do is trade some role player or two for another role player. But the fact is, the Spurs have no one to depend on to hit those late heroic shots. We all thought Manu, when healthy, could do it (although I was the only who was skeptical). But he can't even do it two games in a row, much less 4 playoff series. This team will continue to break our hearts until Tim and Manu retire, or they bring in (or draft) another all star.
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  #36  
Old 06-25-12, 11:56 AM
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I just have to give up and laugh at all those who think that the solution to our problems is ditching a role player and getting another one.
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  #37  
Old 06-25-12, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
I just have to give up and laugh at all those who think that the solution to our problems is ditching a role player and getting another one.
Your right again. Let's not change any dynamic stand still, because it is working so great. Heaven forbid fans on a message board have opinions our ideas of improving their favorite team.

Bonner is awesome! He can't even post up a point guard. Let's keep him.
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  #38  
Old 06-25-12, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mataipaepae View Post
Your right again. Let's not change any dynamic stand still, because it is working so great. Heaven forbid fans on a message board have opinions our ideas of improving their favorite team.

Bonner is awesome! He can't even post up a point guard. Let's keep him.
You can't reason with a Bonner lover! Point to the stats. That's what I do.

Bonner
11% FG% WCF
14% 3 point FG% WCF
31% FG% 2012 playoffs
34% 3 point FG% 2012 playoffs
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  #39  
Old 06-25-12, 12:25 PM
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You are missing the entire point. Dump Bonner, trade him, waive him, whatever.

Who takes his place? What makes you think that player, that apparently we are going to get either off the free agent dump heap or at the end of the second round, is going to make outside shots in the advanced playoff rounds (which Danny Green, Gary Neal, & Boris Diaw couldn't do), make big plays when it counts (which the big 3 couldn't do), and not make mistakes (which kept Blair, Diaw, and Splitter off the floor).

THAT is the issue. Not does Matt Bonner's % drop in the playoffs. But who you gonna get to replace him? And how does this make us a better team?
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  #40  
Old 06-25-12, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
You are missing the entire point. Dump Bonner, trade him, waive him, whatever.

Who takes his place? What makes you think that player, that apparently we are going to get either off the free agent dump heap or at the end of the second round, is going to make outside shots in the advanced playoff rounds (which Danny Green, Gary Neal, & Boris Diaw couldn't do), make big plays when it counts (which the big 3 couldn't do), and not make mistakes (which kept Blair, Diaw, and Splitter off the floor).

THAT is the issue. Not does Matt Bonner's % drop in the playoffs. But who you gonna get to replace him? And how does this make us a better team?
Yet you yourself are missing the point as well. Bonner has proven himself for multiple years now. Why not get what we can out of him and get ryan anderson, try to draft royce white, maybe rashard lewis gets cut. Either way there are options.

Westbrook was guarding stand still bonner. Allowing sefalosha to take parker and also slowing westbrook to rest on defense for offense.

If bonner can't even attempt to post him up, then it is time and your stand still approach is over. There are always options when dealing with role players. Don't act like we are between a rock and a hard place in this situation.
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  #41  
Old 06-25-12, 01:23 PM
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Ryan Anderson is just out of reach. I don't see a scenario where we could get him. Am I missing something? That has nothing to do with Bonner unless you can figure out a way plausibly it could happen.

If we could get a draft pick in the 17-25 range for Bonner, I'd probably do it. That could get us, like you mention, Royce White. Or Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Fab Melo, Jared Sullinger. A few guys on that short list with shooting range, all have some size/length, some low-post banging potential and shotblocking. Take your pick. I'm not against that, just don't think Bonner buys you a first rounder in that area (since it took a guy of George Hill's caliber to get us into the mid-first round of a worse draft).

Personally I would prefer to keep Bonner as a mistake-free player with a specialty skill set and dump Blair, whose primary weapon is his rebounding but his rebounding rate plummeted last season.

Rashard Lewis I would take, but why then does it mean we have to get rid of Bonner? You need guys to fill out a roster, and while I don't want to count on Bonner to make big shots in the playoffs, I like him as a guy you can put out there who won't screw things up by making boneheaded plays (which you can't say about Blair) and who will be guaranteed to play hard on both sides of the ball.

It's a long season. We need if not Bonner, guys like Bonner we can count on for the long grind, not just guys who are clutch.
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  #42  
Old 06-25-12, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
You are missing the entire point. Dump Bonner, trade him, waive him, whatever.

Who takes his place? What makes you think that player, that apparently we are going to get either off the free agent dump heap or at the end of the second round, is going to make outside shots in the advanced playoff rounds (which Danny Green, Gary Neal, & Boris Diaw couldn't do), make big plays when it counts (which the big 3 couldn't do), and not make mistakes (which kept Blair, Diaw, and Splitter off the floor).

THAT is the issue. Not does Matt Bonner's % drop in the playoffs. But who you gonna get to replace him? And how does this make us a better team?
Who takes his place? The guy played 2 and 0 minutes the last two games. What does that prove? He is not good enough to play in the WCF or the playoffs. You point to TP and TD? Look at their stats on the last game. They played as hard as they could and gave some results. Pop didn't play Bonner because of the others play. He didn't play him because he was sucking big balls out there. Look at the stats every year. 3.6 million dollars to not even play is not a good investment. Plain and simple!
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  #43  
Old 06-25-12, 01:29 PM
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Bonner
11% FG% WCF
14% 3 point FG% WCF
31% FG% 2012 playoffs
34% 3 point FG% 2012 playoffs

The Facts!!!!!!!!!
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  #44  
Old 06-25-12, 01:40 PM
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So we just ignore the fact that we have a guy with a unique specialty who commands just $3.6mil a year, is a great locker room guy, doesn't whine about anything ever (unless they put too much tabasco on his hoagie maybe), plays underrated man to man defense, can be counted on to play the same intensity every night, is reliably healthy so the team can reduce Tim's minutes during the regular season, and doesn't do anything stupid either on or off court?

That's worth nothing?
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  #45  
Old 06-25-12, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
So we just ignore the fact that we have a guy with a unique specialty who commands just $3.6mil a year, is a great locker room guy, doesn't whine about anything ever (unless they put too much tabasco on his hoagie maybe), plays underrated man to man defense, can be counted on to play the same intensity every night, is reliably healthy so the team can reduce Tim's minutes during the regular season, and doesn't do anything stupid either on or off court?

That's worth nothing?
Those reasons you gave are so pathetic
Answer the questions!
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  #46  
Old 06-25-12, 01:44 PM
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Bonner
11% FG% WCF
14% 3 point FG% WCF
31% FG% 2012 playoffs
34% 3 point FG% 2012 playoffs

What 3.6 million bucks buys you in the playoffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #47  
Old 06-25-12, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
Ryan Anderson is just out of reach. I don't see a scenario where we could get him. Am I missing something? That has nothing to do with Bonner unless you can figure out a way plausibly it could happen.

If we could get a draft pick in the 17-25 range for Bonner, I'd probably do it. That could get us, like you mention, Royce White. Or Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Fab Melo, Jared Sullinger. A few guys on that short list with shooting range, all have some size/length, some low-post banging potential and shotblocking. Take your pick. I'm not against that, just don't think Bonner buys you a first rounder in that area (since it took a guy of George Hill's caliber to get us into the mid-first round of a worse draft).

Personally I would prefer to keep Bonner as a mistake-free player with a specialty skill set and dump Blair, whose primary weapon is his rebounding but his rebounding rate plummeted last season.

Rashard Lewis I would take, but why then does it mean we have to get rid of Bonner? You need guys to fill out a roster, and while I don't want to count on Bonner to make big shots in the playoffs, I like him as a guy you can put out there who won't screw things up by making boneheaded plays (which you can't say about Blair) and who will be guaranteed to play hard on both sides of the ball.

It's a long season. We need if not Bonner, guys like Bonner we can count on for the long grind, not just guys who are clutch.
Hate to have guys who are just clutch
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  #48  
Old 06-25-12, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
Ryan Anderson is just out of reach. I don't see a scenario where we could get him. Am I missing something? That has nothing to do with Bonner unless you can figure out a way plausibly it could happen.

If we could get a draft pick in the 17-25 range for Bonner, I'd probably do it. That could get us, like you mention, Royce White. Or Perry Jones, Quincy Miller, Fab Melo, Jared Sullinger. A few guys on that short list with shooting range, all have some size/length, some low-post banging potential and shotblocking. Take your pick. I'm not against that, just don't think Bonner buys you a first rounder in that area (since it took a guy of George Hill's caliber to get us into the mid-first round of a worse draft).

Personally I would prefer to keep Bonner as a mistake-free player with a specialty skill set and dump Blair, whose primary weapon is his rebounding but his rebounding rate plummeted last season.

Rashard Lewis I would take, but why then does it mean we have to get rid of Bonner? You need guys to fill out a roster, and while I don't want to count on Bonner to make big shots in the playoffs, I like him as a guy you can put out there who won't screw things up by making boneheaded plays (which you can't say about Blair) and who will be guaranteed to play hard on both sides of the ball.

It's a long season. We need if not Bonner, guys like Bonner we can count on for the long grind, not just guys who are clutch.
I would think a combo of blair and bonner could get us up there in the draft.
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  #49  
Old 06-25-12, 01:52 PM
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At the risk of repeating myself, there are two different issues. One is who do you want in your tight rotation in the latter stages of the playoffs. I don't see Matt Bonner there and I've said that for years. The other question is who do you want filling out your roster and getting regular season minutes. Matt Bonner can have a good place there.

The fact that we had to play Bonner shows us Pop's desperation. Splitter was making too many defensive mistakes. Blair is a known wildcard who makes mistakes by the truckload but can singlehandedly turn a game around, but Pop wasn't willing to take the risk (other than for like a half a game I think). Bonner doesn't screw things up.

In other words, playing Bonner is the symptom of a problem on our roster, not the problem itself, because you and I and Pop all know Bonner's limitations going in. Pop was forced to play him in hopes that Bonner would play good enough mistake-free, unspectacular defense and stretch the offensive floor enough to enable other guys to win for us.

I think, and Pop does too, it's good to have guys on your team who you can count on to at least not lose the game for you by yourself (see Udrih, Beno).

You want to replace him in the rotation, great. No problem. But the question is always, with who? The Spurs tried out plenty of guys in the preseason and regular season and it's just hard to get a guy who's not most of the following: unathletic, no offensive moves, no outside shot, undersized, bad attitude, stupid, injury prone.

With backup big men, it's always a question of the least bad option. That's why I don't begrudge this team keeping Matt.
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  #50  
Old 06-25-12, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
Hate to have guys who are just clutch
There's a point to that. Yeah, it's great to have guys who are clutch. But how many of those "clutch" guys are injured half the time, demanding trades, making stupid defensive mistakes, etc. "Clutch" doesn't tell you the whole story, just like Bonner's bad playoff stats.
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