A Quality Roster That Makes Fiscal Sense Next Season

[gosaspurs2150]

Starters:

G/Parker $12.5 mil
SG/Neal $.850 k
SF/Leonard $1.9 mil
PF/Duncan $12 mil
C/Splitter $3.9 mil

Bench:

G/Mills $1.9 mil
SG/Ginobili $14.1 mil/Derrick Byars $500k
SF/Jackson $10 mil/Julian Wright $500k
PF/Thompson $5 mil
C/Diaw $5.5 mil/Whiteside $850k

Total = $69.5 million

-Let go to free agency- Danny Green- Signs with Boston for $2.5 mil
-Trade Blair, Joseph, Bonner to Kings for Thompson and Whiteside (Sign and trade. Thompson 3 years at $18 million. 1st season $5 mil, 2nd year $6, 3rd year $7 mil
-Sign Duncan for 2 years at $24 million with player option at $12 mil for 2nd season.
-Sign Diaw for MLE at $5.5 mil
-Sign Mills for Bi-annual exception at $1.9 mil

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

[WILLTHETHRILL]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

Starters:

G/Parker $12.5 mil
SG/Neal $.850 k
SF/Leonard $1.9 mil
PF/Duncan $12 mil
C/Splitter $3.9 mil

Bench:

G/Mills $1.9 mil
SG/Ginobili $14.1 mil/Derrick Byars $500k
SF/Jackson $10 mil/Julian Wright $500k
PF/Thompson $5 mil
C/Diaw $5.5 mil/Whiteside $850k

Total = $69.5 million

-Let go to free agency- Danny Green- Signs with Boston for $2.5 mil
-Trade Blair, Joseph, Bonner to Kings for Thompson and Whiteside (Sign and trade. Thompson 3 years at $18 million. 1st season $5 mil, 2nd year $6, 3rd year $7 mil
-Sign Duncan for 2 years at $24 million with player option at $12 mil for 2nd season.
-Sign Diaw for MLE at $5.5 mil
-Sign Mills for Bi-annual exception at $1.9 mil

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

Starting Neal and Splitter I think is not a good idea. Diaw must start. Neal needs to be that Eddie House threat off the bench. That LLE for Mills I think does not exist anymore. I still don't see why the Kings would consider your trade idea. I see why you do but not for them to bite on it.

[Jose_TheGenius]

i'd rather start Patty Mills at SG than Neal. Mills can shoot as well as Neal, plus has speed and can handle the ball.

i would be shocked if we let Danny Green walk. the Cavs nor the Raptors let Lebron/Bosh go without something: cap space. it was basically a sign and trade they had going and that's something we would do if it came down to letting Green go. there'd be a big difference for us letting Green's $800,000 go for nothing instead of sign/trading him for cap space (and Boston has enough cap space to not just sign him for $2.5 million)

i agree with Will about the trade though. we've had no takers for Bonner at all, he's just not an attractive commodity with second tier players for a good player they have.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL

Starting Neal and Splitter I think is not a good idea. Diaw must start. Neal needs to be that Eddie House threat off the bench. That LLE for Mills I think does not exist anymore. I still don't see why the Kings would consider your trade idea. I see why you do but not for them to bite on it.

Ok, I agree with you on that about Diaw starting and Neal coming off the bench like a Eddie House threat. Good points!

I do believe there is the bi-annual $1.9 mil exception still in place. Am I wrong? If it is still in place, it would be perfect to sign Mills with that.

And yes, I honestly think this trade for Blair, Joseph and Bonner to the Kings for Thompson and Whiteside makes perfect sense for both teams and works out number wise too. I can explain in great detail why this makes sense for both teams if anyone cares.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius

i'd rather start Patty Mills at SG than Neal. Mills can shoot as well as Neal, plus has speed and can handle the ball.

i would be shocked if we let Danny Green walk. the Cavs nor the Raptors let Lebron/Bosh go without something: cap space. it was basically a sign and trade they had going and that's something we would do if it came down to letting Green go. there'd be a big difference for us letting Green's $800,000 go for nothing instead of sign/trading him for cap space (and Boston has enough cap space to not just sign him for $2.5 million)

i agree with Will about the trade though. we've had no takers for Bonner at all, he's just not an attractive commodity with second tier players for a good player they have.

We would have to do the early Bird rights on Green or split the Mid-Level exception. Green will get $2.5 million from someone. We could sign him for early Bird rights but it is going to come down to how much Duncan wants with his agent. And the Spurs I don't believe want to go over the luxury tax next season.

I think Derrick Byars could be our next Danny Green. Who knows

[katyspursfan]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

We would have to do the early Bird rights on Green or split the Mid-Level exception. Green will get $2.5 million from someone. We could sign him for early Bird rights but it is going to come down to how much Duncan wants with his agent. And the Spurs I don't believe want to go over the luxury tax next season.

I think Derrick Byars could be our next Danny Green. Who knows

Does Duncan even have an agent?
In the past, he used Lon Babby, but only to look over over the contract. Babby was paid by the hour. Negotiations were pretty simple.

[grizzly_bexar]

Duncan doesn't have an agent.

The bi-annual exception of $1.9 mil no longer exists.

We are keeping Green. Neal cannot defend like Pop wants. He will be relegated to third string 2 guard I think. It wasn't our plan to use him as backup PG and I think we appreciate how well he did in that role but that's not a good plan going into next season. It will be Mills or Joseph.

[grizzly_bexar]

I would like to see us try for Ekpe Udoh maybe with Blair plus spare parts.

They each are really good at what they do (Blair hustle/scoring/offensive boards, Udoh shotblocking/defense/okay face up shooter).

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar

Duncan doesn't have an agent.

The bi-annual exception of $1.9 mil no longer exists.

We are keeping Green. Neal cannot defend like Pop wants. He will be relegated to third string 2 guard I think. It wasn't our plan to use him as backup PG and I think we appreciate how well he did in that role but that's not a good plan going into next season. It will be Mills or Joseph.

From what I have read the BAE still exists. Please provide a link and prove me wrong where it says that it no longer exists. Thanks.

You are right. Duncan doesn't have an agent.

Spurs Nation

But you better believe he will have one in the next few weeks. With this type of big free agent, he will have an agent no doubt for legal purposes.

And I think you might be right about Neal. hmmm

[katyspursfan]

Why would Duncan hire an agent now?

He won't be trying to get everything he can. And, if you are going to give a home team discount, why give 4% of the total pay to an agent?
My guess is that he does what he's done in the past, and have a lawyer look over the contract before he signs.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by katyspursfan

Why would Duncan hire an agent now?

He won't be trying to get everything he can. And, if you are going to give a home team discount, why give 4% of the total pay to an agent?
My guess is that he does what he's done in the past, and have a lawyer look over the contract before he signs.

I think he needs an agent in my opinion of the way the deal is structured. I think that is what agents are for? They work with the GM of the team to find the best price, offer and structured solutions.

So I am hoping that Duncan can structure a deal where it is $11 million the first year, and $13 million for the 2nd year, where the 2nd year is a players option. So 2 years for $24 million.

[katyspursfan]

You really think Timmy's going to spend $1M to have someone else debate how the Spurs need to structure money for the next 2 years? Especially when the argument might be as simple as $11-$13M or $12-12?

All your other arguments just lost a little luster

I'll also be the first to go on record that Duncan will average less than $10M a year in the upcoming contract.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by katyspursfan

You really think Timmy's going to spend $1M to have someone else debate how the Spurs need to structure money for the next 2 years? Especially when the argument might be as simple as $11-$13M or $12-12?

All your other arguments just lost a little luster.

Who knows, I am not an expert at all when it comes to agents and how they work. Just thinking realistically, I don't think he does this on his own with his lawyer.

You see the Spurs could low ball him $8-$10 mil for another year or $20 mil for 2 years. He isn't going to represent himself right? He needs an agent to negotiate to find the best deal, option, structured plan, etc. It just makes sense. But who knows.

[katyspursfan]

If Timmy thinks the Spurs are not being fair, he can leave. He's an unrestricted free agent.

Spurs will be fair. If Timmy wants $18M a year and no help, he gets it.
I would bet that Timmy will want less cash and more help.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by katyspursfan

If Timmy thinks the Spurs are not being fair, he can leave. He's an unrestricted free agent.

Spurs will be fair. If Timmy wants $18M a year and no help, he gets it.
I would bet that Timmy will want less cash and more help.

You see, some unknowns here right? So you pretty much answered the question. He gets an agent. He would be stupid if he doesn't!

[grizzly_bexar]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

From what I have read the BAE still exists. Please provide a link and prove me wrong where it says that it no longer exists. Thanks.

You are right. Duncan doesn't have an agent.

Spurs Nation

But you better believe he will have one in the next few weeks. With this type of big free agent, he will have an agent no doubt for legal purposes.

And I think you might be right about Neal. hmmm

I have looked over things again and it looks like what I read before was wrong. BAE to Mills FTW!

If he doesn't pick up his option. And you always have to be careful . . . the BAE is one of those things that can be handy to hold onto until towards the end of free agency.

This year it will be VERY interesting. Repeat offender teams won't have the full MLE. So there will be lots of guys left without good options in this game of musical chairs. Traditionally that's what Spurs like to do. Wait to see what's left at the end. But we'll see I guess.

[katyspursfan]

I guess the complete obviousness of my post escaped you.

Timmy asks, Timmy gets. Negotiations over.
You say he would be stupid. I suspect he has a pretty good view of the big picture. Get extra cash now that he can never spend, or get help. And spend $1M for that piece of advice.

[grizzly_bexar]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

You see, some unknowns here right? So you pretty much answered the question. He gets an agent. He would be stupid if he doesn't!

I think the difference here is that agents typically have an ongoing role/relationship to act on the player's behalf. They typically charge a percentage fee of the contract.

I'm sure TD has legal counsel that will review his contract and help with structuring, and that he will pay them on an hourly basis, which is peanuts in comparison to what agents charge. Then when the contract is signed they send him a bill for a few grand and go about their way.

But he doesn't need an agent to negotiate for him. He is a smart guy and this franchise will be straight with him.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by katyspursfan

I guess the complete obviousness of my post escaped you.

Timmy asks, Timmy gets. Negotiations over.
You say he would be stupid. I suspect he has a pretty good view of the big picture. Get extra cash now that he can never spend, or get help. And spend $1M for that piece of advice.

I knew what you meant, but sorry, easier said than done like that.

If Timmy asks for $18 million, Spurs will turn that down most likely and he will walk.

If Timmy asks for $12-$14 mil, there will be negotiations and structured deals.

And Spurs front office can say, we will offer you $8 million. He could say, I want $12 million for 2 years. Spurs could say, how about $11 million for first year, and $13 million for the 2nd year?

The Spurs could say, how about $13 million 2nd year with team option? He could say, how about $13 million for 2nd year with player option?

I don't think Duncan dictates and gets anything he wants. LOL It is a two way street to come to the best solution and future solution, and that is why an agent is needed in this respect. But who knows. Short time will tell

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar

I think the difference here is that agents typically have an ongoing role/relationship to act on the player's behalf. They typically charge a percentage fee of the contract.

I'm sure TD has legal counsel that will review his contract and help with structuring, and that he will pay them on an hourly basis, which is peanuts in comparison to what agents charge. Then when the contract is signed they send him a bill for a few grand and go about their way.

But he doesn't need an agent to negotiate for him. He is a smart guy and this franchise will be straight with him.

Interesting. Yeah good points. I can see that now being the most likely way Duncan approaches it.

[katyspursfan]

Timmy has already been through one of these negotiations. The last one, in fact.

Duncan will not dictate the terms. He will be a huge partner in determining the team for the next few years. He will accept less than he currently earns, for the benefit of the team. He did that a few years ago. He'll do it again. And he's smart enough to do it on his own.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by katyspursfan

Timmy has already been through one of these negotiations. The last one, in fact.

Duncan will not dictate the terms. He will be a huge partner in determining the team for the next few years. He will accept less than he currently earns, for the benefit of the team. He did that a few years ago. He'll do it again. And he's smart enough to do it on his own.

Yeah, I can see that. He is smart enough to do it on his own with legal counsil of course.

I am hoping for next season and the future of this team, he can do 2 more years. And the best scenario for his deal would be 2 years, $24 million, where the first year, next season, would be $11 million, and the 2nd year of his contract would be $13 million as a player option. He can either take the $13 million the following season or retire after next year.

[gosaspurs2150]

Revised roster after some comments and suggestions:

Starters:

G/Parker $12.5 mil
SG/Green $2.6 mil
SF/Leonard $1.9 mil
PF/Duncan $11 mil
C/Diaw $5.5 mil

Bench:

PG/Mills $1.9 mil, Justin Dentmon $400k
SG/Ginobili $14.1 mil, Neal $850k
SF/Jackson $10 mil, Julian Wright $400k
PF/Thompson $4.5 mil
C/Splitter $3.9 mil

=$69.5 million (under luxury tax cap)

-Sign Danny Green with early Bird right and offer ~$2.6 mil
-Sign Patty Mills with Bi-annual exception and offer ~$1.9 mil
-Sign Boris Diaw with Mid-level exception and offer ~$5.5 mil
-Sign Duncan for 2 years for $24 million. 1st year $11 mil with 2nd year at $13 mil and player option.
-Trade Bonner ($3.6 mil), Corey Joseph ($1.1 mil) and Dejuan Blair ($1 mil) to the Kings for Jason Thompson and future 2013 2nd round Kings pick. Sign and trade.

[katyspursfan]

That Thompson contract doesn't look all that legal under the CBA.

You can't offer 30% raises.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by katyspursfan

That Thompson contract doesn't look all that legal under the CBA.

You can't offer 30% raises.

Ah yes, good point after reading about salary raises. What is the max raise? 4%?

[katyspursfan]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

Ah yes, good point after reading about salary raises. What is the max raise? 4%?

It was 12.5 for a home club signing. 10 for others. Not sure what it is now. But, I bet it's not 30%.

[Jose_TheGenius]

Originally Posted by katyspursfan

I guess the complete obviousness of my post escaped you.

Timmy asks, Timmy gets. Negotiations over.
You say he would be stupid. I suspect he has a pretty good view of the big picture. Get extra cash now that he can never spend, or get help. And spend $1M for that piece of advice.

i agree, he won't get an agent just for one year (he had to drop Babby since he becam the Suns GM). the Spurs won't screw over Duncan on his last contract (like if Duncan asks for something and they don't put it in, etc.) i think Duncan may already have a price set in his mind and with how he was looking during those losses and his "Spur for Life" comment, i think he will take less. i'm honestly guessing a 50% discount, but knowing TD's passion for winning, he may take less (which would surprise me but in a way, not really).

[choppsboy]

Thompson is not the answer to our problems. He has been in the league for 4 years on one of the worst teams, and can't manage more than 30 MPG. He doesn't block shots and is horribly inconsistent (14 boards one game 2 the next). Are you saying that the only thing we need to change is to add Thompson? I think whatever contract he get's, he will be overpaid.

I think we need a shot blocker, and we need to get back to defense.

I am glad none of us are decision makers for the Spurs because we would never win a championship.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by choppsboy

Thompson is not the answer to our problems. He has been in the league for 4 years on one of the worst teams, and can't manage more than 30 MPG. He doesn't block shots and is horribly inconsistent (14 boards one game 2 the next). Are you saying that the only thing we need to change is to add Thompson? I think whatever contract he get's, he will be overpaid.

I think we need a shot blocker, and we need to get back to defense.

I am glad none of us are decision makers for the Spurs because we would never win a championship.

Ok, some interesting points there. You can read this about Thompson:

Jason Thompson: Sacramento Kings Power Forward Has Been Lighting It Up Lately | Bleacher Report

I think if we can do the trade for Blair, Bonner, and Joseph for Thompson and do a sign and trade for maybe 3 years at $18 million for him, I think I can be happy with that. Thompson has talent and is legit. With Duncan's mentoring and our better coaching staff, Thompson I can see really blossoming, even more so than he had last year. The trade makes sense for both teams. And Spencer Hawes is out of our price range anyways.

Also, shot blocking is way overrated. Most teams don't play much inside anymore. It is becoming an outside shooting league. There are very few good shot blockers in the league. And you can get a guy maybe that can block and ton of shots but is so limited on offense. You rather have a really good guard/shooting guard wing defender than you would ever want a really good shot blocker.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/2000208-/62278358

And you say that you hope none of us are ever in the Spurs front office with the suggestions here? Well I have figured out ways of keeping Green, Mills, Diaw, whom all three of them we need badly, and signing Duncan for an approriate ammount, and keeping the Spurs salary under the luxury cap. And also figuring out a way to trade Bonner, while I believe upgrading Thompson over Blair and still going 11 strong deep on our roster. What more do you want?

[choppsboy]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

Ok, some interesting points there. You can read this about Thompson:

Jason Thompson: Sacramento Kings Power Forward Has Been Lighting It Up Lately | Bleacher Report

I think if we can do the trade for Blair, Bonner, and Joseph for Thompson and do a sign and trade for maybe 3 years at $18 million for him, I think I can be happy with that. Thompson has talent and is legit. With Duncan's mentoring and our better coaching staff, Thompson I can see really blossoming, even more so than he had last year. The trade makes sense for both teams. And Spencer Hawes is out of our price range anyways.

Also, shot blocking is way overrated. Most teams don't play much inside anymore. It is becoming an outside shooting league. There are very few good shot blockers in the league. And you can get a guy maybe that can block and ton of shots but is so limited on offense. You rather have a really good guard/shooting guard wing defender than you would ever want a really good shot blocker.

And you say that you hope none of us are ever in the Spurs front office with the suggestions here? Well I have figured out ways of keeping Green, Mills, Diaw, whom all three of them we need badly, and signing Duncan for an approriate ammount, and keeping the Spurs salary under the luxury cap. And also figuring out a way to trade Bonner, while I believe upgrading Thompson over Blair and still going 11 strong deep on our roster. What more do you want?

Realism

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by choppsboy

Realism

All of what I have proposed is completely realistic. Try to figure out something better.

[gosaspurs2150]

Pace of NBA games makes center prospects tougher to judge
Pace of NBA games makes center prospects tougher to judge | NBA.com

More teams are becoming smaller, and becoming primarily more three-point shooting and outside shooting teams instead of a low post game, where a block shot player would be needed.

A Serge Ibaka is very hard to come by, where he can quickly rotate back and block a shot on a Parker drive when it looks like Parker has gotten to the rim easily.

All we need is a player that can rebound well, rotates well, set good screens, plays hard, and plays physical, without the shot block capability. A good example of these type of player are Diaw, Duncan, and the likes of Collison on OKC. I feel Thompson is a similar type of player.

[joyner]

Did you seriously just quote GameFAQs in an attempt to cite a reputable argument? Ugh. Just stop.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by joyner

Did you seriously just quote GameFAQs in an attempt to cite a reputable argument? Ugh. Just stop.

I already quoted something better. So I have yet to hear much of your ideas and how we can get better with trades or for next season. How come?

[choppsboy]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

All of what I have proposed is completely realistic. Try to figure out something better.

I would rather trade to get into the 1st round and try out some of the multitudes of C/PF listed on these posts, and bring over Lorbek than commit multiple years to a player that has been in the league for 4 years and has shown absolutely no improvement in his game. He scoring average has dropped every year.

To sum up his game, here is Hollingers analysis.

"Thompson is 25 and put up virtually identical numbers for a third straight season, so it appears he may have hit his ceiling. Thompson is so perfectly average that it's hard to point out any areas where he stands out. He scores a bit more than the average center at 15.2 points per 40 minutes, ranking him 20th at his position, but he was between 30th and 45th at the 5 in every other category except blocks and steals.

Those latter two -- where he was 51st and 55th, respectively -- point out that he's really a hybrid big man who is half power forward, half center. He can't defend the bigger 5s and he struggles keeping up with fleet 4s, but as a third big man in a rotation he can soak up a lot of minutes reasonably effectively. He may also be able to serve as a full-time 5 if he fills out a bit more.

Offensively, Thompson doesn't look like much of a finisher but it was actually his mid-range game that did him in last season. He converted 70.8 percent of his shots in the basket area, but he took nearly as many shots from beyond 10 feet and made just 35.8 percent. He seems wedded to the idea that he can be a mid-range floor spacer, but he's done his best work closer to the bucket. "

This is not the guy that will put us in the Finals!

Plus,
the fact that I haven't come up with a better plan doesn't give any credence to your plan.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by choppsboy

I would rather trade to get into the 1st round and try out some of the multitudes of C/PF listed on these posts, and bring over Lorbek than commit multiple years to a player that has been in the league for 4 years and has shown absolutely no improvement in his game. He scoring average has dropped every year.

To sum up his game, here is Hollingers analysis.

"Thompson is 25 and put up virtually identical numbers for a third straight season, so it appears he may have hit his ceiling. Thompson is so perfectly average that it's hard to point out any areas where he stands out. He scores a bit more than the average center at 15.2 points per 40 minutes, ranking him 20th at his position, but he was between 30th and 45th at the 5 in every other category except blocks and steals.

Those latter two -- where he was 51st and 55th, respectively -- point out that he's really a hybrid big man who is half power forward, half center. He can't defend the bigger 5s and he struggles keeping up with fleet 4s, but as a third big man in a rotation he can soak up a lot of minutes reasonably effectively. He may also be able to serve as a full-time 5 if he fills out a bit more.

Offensively, Thompson doesn't look like much of a finisher but it was actually his mid-range game that did him in last season. He converted 70.8 percent of his shots in the basket area, but he took nearly as many shots from beyond 10 feet and made just 35.8 percent. He seems wedded to the idea that he can be a mid-range floor spacer, but he's done his best work closer to the bucket. "

This is not the guy that will put us in the Finals!

Plus,
the fact that I haven't come up with a better plan doesn't give any credence to your plan.

Ok, some good rebutals against anti-Thompson. I can see where you are coming from. I just think he can blossom with our coaching staff and the mentoring of Duncan. Thompson wasn't used correctly in Sac. Player rotations were bad, and coaching staff isn't as good as us.

So would you rather do a trade of lets say Blair, Bonner, Joseph for the #5 pick of the Kings, and get Drummond instead?

[gosaspurs2150]

Interesting news coming out just now!

Report: Kings will pass on Drummond if he falls to No. 5 - CBSSports.com

[choppsboy]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

Ok, some good rebutals against anti-Thompson. I can see where you are coming from. I just think he can blossom with our coaching staff and the mentoring of Duncan. Thompson wasn't used correctly in Sac. Player rotations were bad, and coaching staff isn't as good as us.

So would you rather do a trade of lets say Blair, Bonner, Joseph for the #5 pick of the Kings, and get Drummond instead?

Ultimately,
Whatever the Front Office does, I will probably cheer.

If the front office made a trade for Thompson, I would have to believe that they saw something in the guy.

My hope is that we trade into the 1st round because the Front Office see's another Kawhi Leonard type opportunity. The only free agents I would like to sign are Spenser Hawes (Hawes being slightly better than Thompson and showed much more upside this year than Thompson) or Ersan Ilyasova, but I have no idea what the money outlook is like, or if signing either of them is at all feasible.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by choppsboy

Ultimately,
Whatever the Front Office does, I will probably cheer.

If the front office made a trade for Thompson, I would have to believe that they saw something in the guy.

My hope is that we trade into the 1st round because the Front Office see's another Kawhi Leonard type opportunity. The only free agents I would like to sign are Spenser Hawes (Hawes being slightly better than Thompson and showed much more upside this year than Thompson) or Ersan Ilyasova, but I have no idea what the money outlook is like, or if signing either of them is at all feasible.

True about Hawes being slightly better than Thompson and more upside last year. But yeah, I think both Illayova and Hawes are out of our price range. They will likely get anywhere from $7-$8 mil a year.

How about we get another Leonard like we did last year?

Meyers Leonard that is! He sure does sound like a Spurs player! You can read more about him here:

NBA PM: Meyers Leonard Aims for Lottery | HOOPSWORLD | Basketball News & NBA Rumors

How about a package of Blair, Joseph and Bonner for another Leonard?

[WILLTHETHRILL]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

Ok, some good rebutals against anti-Thompson. I can see where you are coming from. I just think he can blossom with our coaching staff and the mentoring of Duncan. Thompson wasn't used correctly in Sac. Player rotations were bad, and coaching staff isn't as good as us.

So would you rather do a trade of lets say Blair, Bonner, Joseph for the #5 pick of the Kings, and get Drummond instead?

A pile of garbage for the #5 pick is not going happen. I think Drummond will not go past #4. Just an FYI most people on here will blast your ideas and not counter with their own ideas. They are just like that.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL

A pile of garbage for the #5 pick is not going happen. I think Drummond will not go past #4. Just an FYI most people on here will blast your ideas and not counter with their own ideas. They are just like that.

I wouldn't say a pile garbage. Blair could have been a 12th pick back in 2010, but feel because of speculation of his knees. I don't think that is much of a concern now. And Blair has proven he can play and when he does play, he actually plays quite well for one of the best teams in the league.

Bonner is a 3-point specialist with size. One of the best in the league in threes. And his defense isn't all that bad.

You could do a logical trade with the Kings. I think Blair is an upgrade from Jason Thompson in some respects.

I think the Kings would like a young true point guard prospect in Joseph.

And I think the Kings aren't going to sign Donte Green, and they would like another similar type of player in Bonner, who is clearly better than Donte Green.

And for those pieces of Bonner, Blair, and Joseph, that is a fair trade for the #5 pick for Drummond who is likely a project and an unknown. A potential bust like Darko or real good potential upside, like Ibaka.

[WILLTHETHRILL]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

I wouldn't say a pile garbage. Blair could have been a 12th pick back in 2010, but feel because of speculation of his knees. I don't think that is much of a concern now. And Blair has proven he can play and when he does play, he actually plays quite well for one of the best teams in the league.

Bonner is a 3-point specialist with size. One of the best in the league in threes. And his defense isn't all that bad.

You could do a logical trade with the Kings. I think Blair is an upgrade from Jason Thompson in some respects.

I think the Kings would like a young true point guard prospect in Joseph.

And I think the Kings aren't going to sign Donte Green, and they would like another similar type of player in Bonner, who is clearly better than Donte Green.

And for those pieces of Bonner, Blair, and Joseph, that is a fair trade for the #5 pick for Drummond who is likely a project and an unknown. A potential bust like Darko or real good potential upside, like Ibaka.

You have 3 guys who were all second round picks or just barely in the first round. In a deep draft #5 is better than #5 normally. Blair could have been a lottery pick but he wasn't and has not panned out to be a true lottery talent. Joseph on most reports etc. was not a first round worthy pick. He played mostly in the D-League. Not exactly the home of future stars in the NBA. Kings are guard heavy and why add to the mix with another young guard by trade? Bonner played 50 seconds in the last two playoff games. To me if he is so good than why did they not play him like they were before? Bad matchup or not you can't have a guy who was the 3 point champ and makes decent money to not play at all. If that's the case.........the guy is dead weight. You can't pay a guy like that and get nothing in return production wise in the playoffs. Not a fair trade for the Kings! Let's be real dude.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL

You have 3 guys who were all second round picks or just barely in the first round. In a deep draft #5 is better than #5 normally. Blair could have been a lottery pick but he wasn't and has not panned out to be a true lottery talent. Joseph on most reports etc. was not a first round worthy pick. He played mostly in the D-League. Not exactly the home of future stars in the NBA. Kings are guard heavy and why add to the mix with another young guard by trade? Bonner played 50 seconds in the last two playoff games. To me if he is so good than why did they not play him like they were before? Bad matchup or not you can't have a guy who was the 3 point champ and makes decent money to not play at all. If that's the case.........the guy is dead weight. You can't pay a guy like that and get nothing in return production wise in the playoffs. Not a fair trade for the Kings! Let's be real dude.

Look at it this way, Blair is one of the better players in the last 3 years out of the draft. Just look at the players coming out of 2009, 2010, 2011 drafts. He in my opinion is better than Derrick Favors, which he was selected at #3 a few years ago.

And if Blair got more playing time and played a true PF position for another team, who isn't as good as the Spurs, his numbers would have been way better. So don't give me Blair is garbage crap!

On top of that, if he goes to the Kings, he could be slightly better than Thompson, maybe, but he is better than Chuck Hayes who made $5.1 mil last season and had 3 points, 4 rebounds a game in like 19 min. And he is on contract for 3 more years, which I wouldn't be surprised if the Kings could use their amnesty clause on him (Hayes).

On top of that, they aren't going to sign Donte Green for $2.5 mil. Bonner is clearly better than him. And so what if Bonner didn't play in the WCF. They shorten the rotation to 7-8 players anyways. When he played in the regular season he was decent. The Kings don't need some player that will be an option for them in the playoffs if they ever do get there.

And Joseph was sent to the D-league because he never got true starting camp with the Spurs because of the lock out and Mills clearly performed better. At 20 years old, who can play decent defense and could get better, I think that is a risk the Kings could take, because they don't have a true point guard. The closest is Isiah Thomas. Evans isn't one, and neither is Jimmer. And neither is Thorton. So get real dude too.

And Blair could long term be better than Drummond anyways. There are only a good couple sure thing players in this draft, and I don't even think Drummond is a sure thing. Actually I don't even know if this draft is deep and good anyways. A lot of these players are unproven.

[choppsboy]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

Look at it this way, Blair is one of the better players in the last 3 years out of the draft. Just look at the players coming out of 2009, 2010, 2011 drafts. He in my opinion is better than Derrick Favors, which he was selected at #3 a few years ago.

And if Blair got more playing time and played a true PF position for another team, who isn't as good as the Spurs, his numbers would have been way better. So don't give me Blair is garbage crap!

On top of that, if he goes to the Kings, he could be slightly better than Thompson, maybe, but he is better than Chuck Hayes who made $5.1 mil last season and had 3 points, 4 rebounds a game in like 19 min. And he is on contract for 3 more years, which I wouldn't be surprised if the Kings could use their amnesty clause on him (Hayes).

On top of that, they aren't going to sign Donte Green for $2.5 mil. Bonner is clearly better than him. And so what if Bonner didn't play in the WCF. They shorten the rotation to 7-8 players anyways. When he played in the regular season he was decent. The Kings don't need some player that will be an option for them in the playoffs if they ever do get there.

And Joseph was sent to the D-league because he never got true starting camp with the Spurs because of the lock out and Mills clearly performed better. At 20 years old, who can play decent defense and could get better, I think that is a risk the Kings could take, because they don't have a true point guard. The closest is Isiah Thomas. Evans isn't one, and neither is Jimmer. And neither is Thorton. So get real dude too.

And Blair could long term be better than Drummond anyways. There are only a good couple sure thing players in this draft, and I don't even think Drummond is a sure thing. Actually I don't even know if this draft is deep and good anyways. A lot of these players are unproven.

I have to say that your opinions on the value of players is way off. Blair is not in the top 30 best players out of the draft in the last 3 years. He sucks. Blair will never get playing time as a PF because he can't play more than 3 feet from the basket. He is useless. Anyone we trade him to will immediately regret the trade.

your argument about Joseph is also very weak. If Joseph only went to the D-league because he didn't get a training camp, how did Patty Mills step in from out of no where and score 20+ points in consecutive games. Patty Mills didn't get a training camp. Joseph when to the d-league because he didn't show us anything with the minutes he was given. He had more of a shot than Mills, and didn't take advantage. What makes you think Joseph is more of a true point guard than Thomas? Joseph only averaged 5 assists and 14 PPG in the D-League playing 30+ minutes. Thomas averaged 5 assists and 14 PPG in the Real NBA playing against legitimate NBA players playing the same 30+ mpg. Thomas is 5' 9" and 185 lbs. He is a true point guard if I ever saw one.

Have you watched any Kings games?

You need to spend some time looking at these players stats because I don't have any clue what you are basing your opinions on.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by choppsboy

I have to say that your opinions on the value of players is way off. Blair is not in the top 30 best players out of the draft in the last 3 years. He sucks. Blair will never get playing time as a PF because he can't play more than 3 feet from the basket. He is useless. Anyone we trade him to will immediately regret the trade.

your argument about Joseph is also very weak. If Joseph only went to the D-league because he didn't get a training camp, how did Patty Mills step in from out of no where and score 20+ points in consecutive games. Patty Mills didn't get a training camp. Joseph when to the d-league because he didn't show us anything with the minutes he was given. He had more of a shot than Mills, and didn't take advantage. What makes you think Joseph is more of a true point guard than Thomas? Joseph only averaged 5 assists and 14 PPG in the D-League playing 30+ minutes. Thomas averaged 5 assists and 14 PPG in the Real NBA playing against legitimate NBA players playing the same 30+ mpg. Thomas is 5' 9" and 185 lbs. He is a true point guard if I ever saw one.

Have you watched any Kings games?

You need to spend some time looking at these players stats because I don't have any clue what you are basing your opinions on.

You ought to be out of your freaking mind if you think Blair sucks and is not even in the top 30 in the past 3 years drafts. Are you serious? You don't know your NBA basketball if you think that. Look at his efficiency rating too. It's not bad, as well as rebounds per minute average.

And um no. I am not saying Joseph is better than Thomas. I didn't even say that. I was suggesting he would be an adequate back up to Thomas. And remember, the Kings don't like to spend big money. 2nd lowest in the league behind Toronto.

On top of that, yeah Mills quickly came in and played better than Joseph. He has more experience and actually played quite well in Portland. If the Kings don't like Joseph during summer league, they could waive him or continue to play in their D-leauge.

The Kings would improve with Blair, Bonner, and Joseph. They aren't going to want a project in Drummond, which he is a project. I think the Spurs can afford to take the risk on Drummond.

[gosaspurs2150]

Sucks huh? Not even in the top 30 players in the past 3 year drafts?

Um..2010 Rookie-Challenge game.

Blair (should have been MVP) Blair grabbed a record 23 rebounds and scored 22 points for the first 20-20 game in the Rookie Challenge, leading the first-year players to a rare 140-128 victory over the sophomores on Friday night.

2011 Rookie Challenge game: Blair 28 points, 15 rebounds

And if he can shoot more than 3 feet out, how in the hell does he have a 53.4 field goal percentage? He is the perfect Power Forward. Combo him with Cousins at Center and Blair at Power Forward and that is a nice young combo there that can bang inside, get lots of rebounds, and offensive put backs.

[choppsboy]

Again, I turn to Hollinger.

"Blair was very effective around the basket and on the offensive boards, but he played his way out of the starting lineup anyway because he was such a defensive liability.

The numbers show why; Blair's defensive stats are scary, and not in a good way. According to 82games.com, opposing power forwards lit him up for a 21.3 PER; at center, where he played more than a third of his minutes, it was 24.3. The Spurs gave up 3.06 points per 100 possessions more with Blair on the court, according to basketballvalue.com, and Synergy Stats weren't too keen on his play either. Oddly, he led all power forwards in steals per minute, but that may have been part of the problem -- too much reaching and not enough fundamental defense.

Once he went to the bench, Blair clearly started pressing; at times it seemed he was trying to make a six-point play every time he caught the ball. Nonetheless, he finished the season with excellent numbers. Blair led all power forwards in offensive rebound rate, hit 50.1 percent from the floor and shot less abysmally from the line than the year before.

However he couldn't space the floor, making only 28.7 percent from beyond 10 feet, and he was too sloppy with the ball. Only seven power forwards had a worse turnover ratio than Blair, which is indefensible given that his job description mostly involved collecting the ball off the rim and putting it back up.

Blair reportedly ballooned to over 300 pounds during the course of last season and clearly needs to improve his conditioning; doing so would likely help remove the target on his back at the defensive end, too. He's a solid bench player even if he doesn't improve, but between his inability to space the floor and his struggles on D, he's not a starter on a contending team."

In addition, here is a list of players I think are better than Blair from the NBA's 2009, 2010, and 2011 drafts. . . Patty Mills, Danny Green, Marcus Thornton, Rodrigue Beaubois, Darren Collison, Jeff Teague, Ty lawson, Jrue Holliday, Gerald Henderson, Brandon Jennings, DeMar DeRozan, Jordan hill, Stephen Curry, Ricky Rubio, Tyreke Evans, James Harden, Blake Griffen, Landry Fields, Greivis Vasquez, Jordan Crawford, Avery Bradley, Eric Bledsoe, Ed Davis, Paul George, Gordon Hayward, Greg Monroe, DeMarcus Cousins, Derrick Favors without question, Evan Turner, John Wall, Isaiah Thomas, MarShon Brooks, Kenneth Faried, Iman Shumpert, Kawhi Leonard, Markieff Morris, Klay Thompson, Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight, Enes Kanter, Derrick Williams, and Kyrie Irving.

Too bad he doesn't get to play against rookies and sophomores in every game.

42 players are better IMHO.

[gosaspurs2150]

Originally Posted by choppsboy

Again, I turn to Hollinger.

"Blair was very effective around the basket and on the offensive boards, but he played his way out of the starting lineup anyway because he was such a defensive liability.

The numbers show why; Blair's defensive stats are scary, and not in a good way. According to 82games.com, opposing power forwards lit him up for a 21.3 PER; at center, where he played more than a third of his minutes, it was 24.3. The Spurs gave up 3.06 points per 100 possessions more with Blair on the court, according to basketballvalue.com, and Synergy Stats weren't too keen on his play either. Oddly, he led all power forwards in steals per minute, but that may have been part of the problem -- too much reaching and not enough fundamental defense.

Once he went to the bench, Blair clearly started pressing; at times it seemed he was trying to make a six-point play every time he caught the ball. Nonetheless, he finished the season with excellent numbers. Blair led all power forwards in offensive rebound rate, hit 50.1 percent from the floor and shot less abysmally from the line than the year before.

However he couldn't space the floor, making only 28.7 percent from beyond 10 feet, and he was too sloppy with the ball. Only seven power forwards had a worse turnover ratio than Blair, which is indefensible given that his job description mostly involved collecting the ball off the rim and putting it back up.

Blair reportedly ballooned to over 300 pounds during the course of last season and clearly needs to improve his conditioning; doing so would likely help remove the target on his back at the defensive end, too. He's a solid bench player even if he doesn't improve, but between his inability to space the floor and his struggles on D, he's not a starter on a contending team."

In addition, here is a list of players I think are better than Blair from the NBA's 2009, 2010, and 2011 drafts. . . Patty Mills, Danny Green, Marcus Thornton, Rodrigue Beaubois, Darren Collison, Jeff Teague, Ty lawson, Jrue Holliday, Gerald Henderson, Brandon Jennings, DeMar DeRozan, Jordan hill, Stephen Curry, Ricky Rubio, Tyreke Evans, James Harden, Blake Griffen, Landry Fields, Greivis Vasquez, Jordan Crawford, Avery Bradley, Eric Bledsoe, Ed Davis, Paul George, Gordon Hayward, Greg Monroe, DeMarcus Cousins, Derrick Favors without question, Evan Turner, John Wall, Isaiah Thomas, MarShon Brooks, Kenneth Faried, Iman Shumpert, Kawhi Leonard, Markieff Morris, Klay Thompson, Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight, Enes Kanter, Derrick Williams, and Kyrie Irving.

Too bad he doesn't get to play against rookies and sophomores in every game.

42 players are better IMHO.

Funny, you are in Antelope huh? I am in Folsom. So you must watch the Kings games too right?

Derrick Favors way better? His numbers are practically identical to Blair's over the past 3 seasons. And Blair for most of the season started at Center for 1 of the top 5 teams in the league.

And Hollinger is way too much into stats. It is interesting but not always the time he is right. He had the Spurs winning in 5 against OKC. He was the only one who thought that among all the analyst out there and thought he was an idiot picking the Spurs in 5. Yeah so much for his stat analysis when it came to that.

At the end of the season too, Blair put in the effort and really leaned down.

So if you want more in depth Holliger ratings check this out.

Hollinger's NBA Player Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Favors and Blair are pretty even.

So yeah you can say that if you are looking at the best Power Forward/Centers that have come out of the draft in the past 3 years. Blair is in the top 10, maybe top 5.

And yes, he is not a starter on a contending team, but he can easily be a starter on the Kings and I think with more playing time, it will help benefit him.

Looking at Hollinger's stats, it looks like Blair was even better than Luis Scola as a Power Forward last year.

[gosaspurs2150]

Again, I think it goes back to a fair trade. And that would be being, Blair, Bonner, Joseph to the Kings for Jason Thompson and a future 2nd round pick.

Or Blair, Bonner, Joseph to the Kings for their rights at the #5 pick and have them select Drummond.

Kings would get two proven productive players with experience. They have selected in the top 10 the past 3 seasons. I think they don't need a project or take a lottery risk, which is why I think they would want some proven talent for next season. They need to get better, and get better fast. Besides Davis, and Robinson, and maybe Lillard, the rest aren't sure fire going to be solid quality players or future All-Stars in the NBA.

The Spurs can afford to take a big gamble on Drummond. Splitter is better than him now. He could back up Splitter at the Center position next season. If Drummond isn't on the board then, then maybe we can trade with the team that gets Meyers Leonard for the Blair, Bonner, Joseph package. I even like Arnett Moultrie too. Reminds me of a Serge Ibaka type player and kind of looks like him too.

If I had to pick, and maybe the most realistic option, it would be getting Arnett Moultrie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUNMqfWBjp8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzUYRppp2kQ

NBA Draft: Top 10 Centers | NBADraft.net

[choppsboy]

Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150

Funny, you are in Antelope huh? I am in Folsom. So you must watch the Kings games too right?

Derrick Favors way better? His numbers are practically identical to Blair's over the past 3 seasons. And Blair for most of the season started at Center for 1 of the top 5 teams in the league.

And Hollinger is way too much into stats. It is interesting but not always the time he is right. He had the Spurs winning in 5 against OKC. He was the only one who thought that among all the analyst out there and thought he was an idiot picking the Spurs in 5. Yeah so much for his stat analysis when it came to that.

At the end of the season too, Blair put in the effort and really leaned down.

So if you want more in depth Holliger ratings check this out.

Hollinger's NBA Player Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Favors and Blair are pretty even.

So yeah you can say that if you are looking at the best Power Forward/Centers that have come out of the draft in the past 3 years. Blair is in the top 10, maybe top 5.

And yes, he is not a starter on a contending team, but he can easily be a starter on the Kings and I think with more playing time, it will help benefit him.

Looking at Hollinger's stats, it looks like Blair was even better than Luis Scola as a Power Forward last year.

You start your argument dismissing Hollinger's stats, and end your argument using his stats as your evidence.

So compare Hollingers comments on Favors compared to my earlier post of his comments on Blair.

"It remains to be seen whether Favors' best long-term position is center or power forward, but he has the size and length to be a very good defender at either position and was already beginning to display those skills by the end of his rookie season -- particularly in his on-ball post defense.

Favors also ranked ninth among power forwards in blocks per minute and had a very good rebound rate as well, strong indicators going forward given that he was only 19 years old. However, he has to stop fouling so much. Favors was the third most frequent offender among power forwards at one every 6.2 minutes, making it virtually impossible to give him extended minutes; one hopes that with experience he can slash that number to something more reasonable.

Offensively, Favors doesn't seem to have a go-to move but is big enough to score some points anyway. The biggest issue right now is his free throw shooting. Favors drew a lot of fouls but made only 59.5 percent from the stripe, crushing his true shooting percentage.

Additionally, he's a pretty brutal ball handler. Favors had a bad turnover rate, which is normal for rookies and often indicative of future growth, but his assist rate was even worse. His lack of comfort with the rock inhibits his post game as well, and may be his biggest limitation going forward. He'll score some buckets just from his size and athleticism, but it's not clear if he'll ever be an instinctive offensive player."