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  #1  
Old 06-07-12, 12:46 AM
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NBA TVs Dennis Scott puts some of the implosion blame on Pop

On NBA-TV Dennis Scott says Scott Brooks was always calm and kept his team "together" while Pop started to panic and make crazy substitutions, disrupting the confidence and flow of many of the players in San Antonio. Says that Pop lost the concept of "TEAM" and that it made no sense not to play Blair more after he was one of the guys who got you there, plus showed efficacy against OKC.

How much is Pop to blame here?
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  #2  
Old 06-07-12, 12:48 AM
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Zero. Zip. Nada.

Are we clear?
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  #3  
Old 06-07-12, 12:49 AM
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Everyone has equal choking blame.

Sith
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  #4  
Old 06-07-12, 12:53 AM
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...maybe o.k.c. was actually better and it wasn't choking....
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  #5  
Old 06-07-12, 12:55 AM
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Pop did fine. Dennis Scott is a soft idiot who had a great stroke.

I don't know if I would've played blair, but I do knw he makes defensive mistakes that make us a worse defensive team and defense cost us the series.
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  #6  
Old 06-07-12, 01:12 AM
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Robert Horry says starting Manu killed the rhythm of the team and that sitting players like Green and Blair immediately made them non factors in the series after they helped you get all those wins and pushed you to the playoffs. He also thinks Pop screwed up.
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  #7  
Old 06-07-12, 01:20 AM
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So they wanted green to continue firing blanks?

They wanted Blair out there o not rotate o the right guy vs a team htt can kill you from anywhere on the court?

There are ons of obvious moves available to armchair coaches after the series.
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  #8  
Old 06-07-12, 04:13 AM
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I think those guys are right. Pop did a terrible job of managing his personnel in this series. That questionable line up with Blair and 4 guards??? Granted he did give Danny Green plenty of chances to redeem himself, but Green didn't help himself. I didn't see any adjustments from the team at all. All Pop stressed was pace and physicality. That's a big part of how to win a game, but how about some X's and O's to counter the adjustments that OKC made. Tony was struggling to get into the paint at times and he does nothing to make life easier for the most important player on our team. He waits too long to call time outs and let's OKC continue their offensive runs. This doesn't seem like the usual Pop. I have never questioned him before and I always had faith in him. It's scary when the best coach in the NBA second guesses himself. His worst nightmare did come true. His team did not face any adversity, so they reacted poorly when they had some.
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Old 06-07-12, 04:19 AM
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I thought they should have used Green throughout the series instead of shaking his confidence. Green is the Sefolosha for our team. Good defense, speed, and can hit the outside shot. So what if his shot wasn't falling for a few games there. He was solid throughout the playoffs and even during the season. Starting Blair just made it look so desperate. The rotation should have been the same I thought. Instead the main focus should have been how to stop Durant. Possibly double team him instead of Jackson or Leonard one on one defense with him. Maybe every time Durant caught the ball, trap and double team him so he would have to pass it out somehow? Durant is a good double team passer so not sure how effective that would have worked.
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  #10  
Old 06-07-12, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUTH View Post
His team did not face any adversity, so they reacted poorly when they had some.
Your name says it all with that statement.
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  #11  
Old 06-07-12, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150 View Post
I thought they should have used Green throughout the series instead of shaking his confidence. Green is the Sefolosha for our team. Good defense, speed, and can hit the outside shot. So what if his shot wasn't falling for a few games there. He was solid throughout the playoffs and even during the season. Starting Blair just made it look so desperate. The rotation should have been the same I thought. Instead the main focus should have been how to stop Durant. Possibly double team him instead of Jackson or Leonard one on one defense with him. Maybe every time Durant caught the ball, trap and double team him so he would have to pass it out somehow? Durant is a good double team passer so not sure how effective that would have worked.
I think Green could have been effective still if used correctly. He could have been inserted into a line up with Blair to help bring some needed energy. Those two guys have the hands to cause deflections and strip the ball. I can live with Durant going off. Give him credit. He's a great player and a great scorer. It really was everyone else that beat us. We were slow on rotations and they had the confidence to shoot it in our face. We couldn't buy a bucket. Tony is the most important player on our team. If he can't get into the lane where he can do damage, help him get there. Run him through a million screens if you need to. Instead, the coaches played into the hands of OKC and let Tony shoot outside his comfort zone of 14-17 feet. I feel the coaching staff did not plan, or even attempt to plan, at all. Everyone was waiting on the greatness of Pop. Shaq, Kenny, and the rest of the world were confident that Pop would come up with a scheme to counter what OKC was doing. It never came.
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  #12  
Old 06-07-12, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUTH View Post
I think Green could have been effective still if used correctly. He could have been inserted into a line up with Blair to help bring some needed energy. Those two guys have the hands to cause deflections and strip the ball. I can live with Durant going off. Give him credit. He's a great player and a great scorer. It really was everyone else that beat us. We were slow on rotations and they had the confidence to shoot it in our face. We couldn't buy a bucket. Tony is the most important player on our team. If he can't get into the lane where he can do damage, help him get there. Run him through a million screens if you need to. Instead, the coaches played into the hands of OKC and let Tony shoot outside his comfort zone of 14-17 feet. I feel the coaching staff did not plan, or even attempt to plan, at all. Everyone was waiting on the greatness of Pop. Shaq, Kenny, and the rest of the world were confident that Pop would come up with a scheme to counter what OKC was doing. It never came.
Yep like the 5th title and so on it never came! This is why it's such a letdown because you thought he would come up with adjustments, instead it seemed he panicked and seemed it never came, which is what makes this so dissapointing! I never will forget this season! It was so real but yet we were so far away as close as we were!
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  #13  
Old 06-07-12, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUTH View Post
I think Green could have been effective still if used correctly. He could have been inserted into a line up with Blair to help bring some needed energy. Those two guys have the hands to cause deflections and strip the ball. I can live with Durant going off. Give him credit. He's a great player and a great scorer. It really was everyone else that beat us. We were slow on rotations and they had the confidence to shoot it in our face. We couldn't buy a bucket. Tony is the most important player on our team. If he can't get into the lane where he can do damage, help him get there. Run him through a million screens if you need to. Instead, the coaches played into the hands of OKC and let Tony shoot outside his comfort zone of 14-17 feet. I feel the coaching staff did not plan, or even attempt to plan, at all. Everyone was waiting on the greatness of Pop. Shaq, Kenny, and the rest of the world were confident that Pop would come up with a scheme to counter what OKC was doing. It never came.
Yeah I agree. Both in regards to Blair and Green being used correctly. Durant was the most tough guard to defend. Greater than Dirk, Kobe, Stoudamire, Shaq or Hakeem back then. He was lights out, unreal. Jackson and Leonard tried their best. Durant is the best play on the planet. Yes, Parker is the best player on our team and they should have done just that, screen after screen to get him space to drive. This reminds me of the 2004 Lakers series. They couldn't counter the adjustments and then just got blown out and exposed. I had a feeling this was going to happen after game 2.

But big credit, I feel OKC was the toughest, most talented team the Spurs have ever faced. Big shots, quick to the ball rotations and defense, and amazingly long, quick, and athletic. The likes I have never seen before. OKC I believe would handily beat any Chicago Bulls Jordan team.
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  #14  
Old 06-07-12, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosaspurs2150 View Post
OKC I believe would handily beat any Chicago Bulls Jordan team.
EASY! :shocked I know we just lost a tough series, but don't open up THAT can. People easily forget those Bulls teams were some of the MEANEST defensive teams EVER! They flat out locked people down!
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  #15  
Old 06-07-12, 09:09 AM
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EASY! :shocked I know we just lost a tough series, but don't open up THAT can. People easily forget those Bulls teams were some of the MEANEST defensive teams EVER! They flat out locked people down!
Yea that's absurd to even put OKC in the same breath as CHi. Game was
Much more physical back then and MJ would have averaged 50+ in today's soft nba
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  #16  
Old 06-07-12, 09:30 AM
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When has Tim ever complained to the press about the refs ('seemed like OKC was getting every whistle and on the line constantly').

Pop never defended his players. Should have taken a 't' to even out the calls and really light the fire under his team. Instead he had 'calm' conversations with the refs. In a close game like this, against an apparent better team, one or two calls (Manu charge on Harden with the waive off of the Leonard three) can make all the difference.

All you have to tell me is that Tim complained about the refs to know it's not just my pro-Spurs view. This might be Tim's biggest statement on refs since the Olympics.
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  #17  
Old 06-07-12, 09:32 AM
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What was Pop supposed to do? Magically make everyone quicker and more athletic? Sure there were probably a some mistakes, but he had his best players out there for the most part. OKC was just better, especially in the 4th when Harden and Durant were hitting some incredibly hard shots. And their defense was terrific. Games 5 and 6 were close, and when a game is close the stars usually shine. Well, they have better stars by a long shot.

And Green was only benched in game 5, Blair was benched several games before the playoffs. No complaints from anyone when it happened.
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  #18  
Old 06-07-12, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Deac83 View Post
When has Tim ever complained to the press about the refs ('seemed like OKC was getting every whistle and on the line constantly'). In a close game like this, against an apparent better team, one or two calls (Manu charge on Harden with the waive off of the Leonard three) can make all the difference.
This was the game clincher because OKC went down and got 2 on the other end. 5 point swing. Not saying Spurs would have won, but in that game, THAT was a huge call! It's the Western Conference Finals! You can't make a call like that!
That said, here's to OKC ripping through the Finals in 5 or less because I couldn't stomach them getting through THIS Spurs team and not winning the title.
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  #19  
Old 06-07-12, 04:17 PM
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You can't blame Pop for the most part. Could he had done better? Sure but the Spurs have too many limited players. Also when a one trick pony is shooting blanks......he becomes worthless. Invest more in the draft like they did last year. It's time to clear some cap too.
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Old 06-07-12, 07:34 PM
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Pop can only do so much, we were playing a damm good team and they put us out of our offensive rhythm... we were there at the end, got stops but then couldn't hit the big shot we went cold.

Lets stop trying to put the blame at someones doorstep, we got to the WCF it is not a flawed team.... a couple of shots go our way we could have won and everyone celebrates every player and coach.

Sure if we want to build to handle OKC better we need another big like we have needed for years, its just hard to get a good one. Otherwise we are the 2nd best team in the finals we definately would have beaten Miami or Boston if we went through.
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  #21  
Old 06-08-12, 09:33 AM
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Pop deserves the same amount of blame as everyone else on the team. Pop plays his hand a certain way according to his principles. we can all sit here and say he should have done this, and he should have done that but in the end we know he wont. He does what HE thinks is best. and about 95% of the time HE is right. but on this occasion i think he made some bad decisions or at least didnt make as good of decisions and changes as Brooks and OKC.
In the end i think the individual talent and defensive cohesion of OKC simply bested us. placing blame is irrelevent, every player had at least one poor game in the series so nobody should be left out. It was a team effort and it simply wasnt good enough this time...
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  #22  
Old 06-11-12, 11:04 PM
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If it were any other franchise, he might have been gone some time ago, actually.
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  #23  
Old 06-12-12, 12:00 AM
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wow so by some of the posters here, Pop deserves NONE of the blame? the coach who comes up with the schemes, substitutes, and has to adjust to the Thunder has no blame in it?

Horry is completely right. starting Manu was a huge mistake. Green was horrible, so now Green is our PRIMARY creator off the bench? (Neal can't create nor Jackson)

what Pop should've done, if he wasn't losing his mind and panicking, was starting Jackson. he'll give you what Green was supposed to give you while keeping our bench fired up.

also, is it Dejuan Blair's fault he didn't get more minutes vs. OKC when we needed him? remember they went on 0-8 or so runs when Bonner was in there for TWO minutes, why not give Blair the spot Bonner had?

we were up 2-0, we had double digit leads, we choked. i love my Spurs, but the Thunder can't "be the better team" when we had huge leads and a 2-0 lead in the series.

Parker's to blame for some, Manu too, Duncan also....the whole team is to blame for not showing up, but Pop is to blame for his lack of adjustments and some of his lineups that were on the court. this series should can all the "In Pop We Trust-Coach Pop is infallible and a perfect coach" arguments there. he's human, let's hope he learned from this when/if he returns next year.
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  #24  
Old 06-12-12, 05:30 PM
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The Thunder are the better team.

The difference in the series is the length of time each team could play lock down defense. Spurs had 3-4 minutes max. OKC could play 5-7 minutes when they had to.
Spurs were also an easier team to defend. Stop Parker penetrations, and you are halfway there.

There's a reason that series are 7 games. The better team will usually win.
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  #25  
Old 06-12-12, 06:52 PM
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You can question some of Pop's moves, but the unlucky thing for him is we know how his moves turned out and we don't know how Jose's would have.

Or Dennis Scott's.

Again, just a fat guy with a stroke. I could care less what he says.
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Old 06-12-12, 06:57 PM
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Scott or José?

:-)
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  #27  
Old 06-12-12, 11:46 PM
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Scott or José?

:-)
is this an direct post to put up some pics of the Gun Show?!
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Old 06-12-12, 11:46 PM
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Scott or José?

:-)
Ummm . . .
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  #29  
Old 06-12-12, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
You can question some of Pop's moves, but the unlucky thing for him is we know how his moves turned out and we don't know how Jose's would have.

Or Dennis Scott's.
oh i agree, but this move was something Pop in 2007 would not have done (he kept Manu on the bench during our last title). what i was implying is he did panic because Jackson would've given us what Green was supposed to on paper (defense/jump shooting).

i think it's silly to not hold Pop accountable (or the coach in general) of blame. i wonder if it's just because it's Pop or just the coach in general (i.e. it wouldn't be Avery Johnson's fault for panicking vs. the Warriors and mixing up his lineups before the playoffs)?

that was purely my point though, if we're gonna all win as a team, we gotta lose like a team and that's including the coach also.
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Old 06-13-12, 12:57 AM
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Pop has 4 rings and gets paid millions. We troll around, watch tv and listen to ex players, who aren't being paid to coach but to cause conversation....still trust pop. He saw the inabilities and shortcomings of younger players not named kawhi...they learned in the wcf, and they'll be back
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  #31  
Old 06-13-12, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
i think it's silly to not hold Pop accountable (or the coach in general) of blame. i wonder if it's just because it's Pop or just the coach in general (i.e. it wouldn't be Avery Johnson's fault for panicking vs. the Warriors and mixing up his lineups before the playoffs)?

that was purely my point though, if we're gonna all win as a team, we gotta lose like a team and that's including the coach also.
I believe in holding him accountable (I've done it here), and that you win or lose as a team, including the coach.

I'm just saying

1) the Pop panics, players lose confidence argument about Manu is overblown. Stuff wasn't working and he went with the guy he trusted the most. He probably reasonably expected it would be less pressure for a guy like Green to come off the bench, but it didn't turn out that way.

2) the panic argument assumes the Spurs players didn't see the games and how OKC was taking it to them. We're still confident even after getting our @sses kicked. But change the lineup? OH NOES!

3) the loss of confidence theory isn't borne out by the facts. Guys who played badly, did so before the lineup change and didn't get better. Guys who played badly in Games 3-4 mostly played well in 5-6. Spurs led big in the second half of Game 6 only to fall apart the last few minutes. How again does this fit with the Spurs losing confidence after Manu starts?

4) Alternate game plans/substitution patterns have the luxury of never being tested. If you start Sjax plus Kawhi, what happens if they both get into early foul trouble?
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  #32  
Old 06-13-12, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzly_bexar View Post
I believe in holding him accountable (I've done it here), and that you win or lose as a team, including the coach.

I'm just saying

1) the Pop panics, players lose confidence argument about Manu is overblown. Stuff wasn't working and he went with the guy he trusted the most. He probably reasonably expected it would be less pressure for a guy like Green to come off the bench, but it didn't turn out that way.

2) the panic argument assumes the Spurs players didn't see the games and how OKC was taking it to them. We're still confident even after getting our @sses kicked. But change the lineup? OH NOES!

3) the loss of confidence theory isn't borne out by the facts. Guys who played badly, did so before the lineup change and didn't get better. Guys who played badly in Games 3-4 mostly played well in 5-6. Spurs led big in the second half of Game 6 only to fall apart the last few minutes. How again does this fit with the Spurs losing confidence after Manu starts?

4) Alternate game plans/substitution patterns have the luxury of never being tested. If you start Sjax plus Kawhi, what happens if they both get into early foul trouble?
if you were to start Jax/Kawhi and they both got into foul trouble, the difference with that is now you have the same reasoning as when Danny Green started: you have Manu or the backup SF come in. what happens if Manu/Kawhi both get into foul trouble? now you have Danny Green or Jackson come off the bench.

Pop "reasonably" expected his decision to work out, i agree with that, but at the same time it was a decision he made. i absolutely get Pop's thinking with starting Manu: that would put Westbrook on Ginobili if they kept Sefolosha on Parker. that's the ying of the situation, did Pop think of the yang? (ex. James Harden now having no competition off the bench?)

i've taken coaching classes in numerous sports to find out the bottom line of winning and losing: when the team wins, it's because the team was good. when the team loses, it's the coaches fault. it might not be the best reasoning, but that's why a lot of coaches get canned after a season or two and the main job of the coach is to put players in positions for them to succeed and that's where the lineups/substitutions/minutes played/rotations are the coaches responsibilities.

yes i'm just a guy right now who's cooking lunch for the family, chatting with people i don't know on here, and casually play ball, but hey, i'm pretty sure Pop did the same thing (minus the internet) in those days. the guy also has assistant coaches scouting for him because he has to share in that responsibility, doesn't the scouting report also go on them after Game 3? lots of blame and praise to go around, but holding Pop accountable means he has to get the blame. just like in 2009 he should've gotten rightful blame for not playing George Hill more minutes.....or does he not get blame for not trusting rookies as much?
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  #33  
Old 06-13-12, 05:53 PM
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Lager..I see your point..and agree
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  #34  
Old 06-14-12, 12:57 PM
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I agree that things got wacky.. pop may have had afew misshaps but lets get out poise back and give the Thunder credit - they dug deep from 2 down and won fair and square...
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WebMii - Dennis Scott This thread Refback 06-26-12 01:56 AM

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