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  #1  
Old 04-18-12, 08:51 AM
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Spurs Up-Tempo Offense vs Phoenix (D'antoni style) Offense

I have heard a few comparisons and I am curious as to how similar or dissimilar both styles are. One thing I noticed is that the Spurs do push the ball after a missed shot. This is similar to the Suns offense. Where I see it differs is that the Spurs (more often than not), try to get higher percentage shots closer to the basket where the Suns never met a shot they didn't like. Last night, when interviewed, Pop admitted that they are not as good defensively as they once were, so he said that was one of the reasons that they have to pick up the pace scoring-wise. In my opinion, that is where the similarities end. What do you think?
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Hibbert, who worked out with Duncan in San Antonio during the lockout, said he has grown close to the perennial All-Star. On Friday, he texted Duncan and asked how he should guard him.

"He said, 'Go for every pump fake,' " Hibbert said.
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  #2  
Old 04-18-12, 09:42 AM
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To term the Spurs offense a "D'antoni style" is putting it in very simplistic terms. All NBA teams have similar sets and plays. If you wan't to term the D'antoni style because of the pace of the game you're missing alot of the nuances of NBA offensive sets.

So I'll post these videos and maybe you'll get some more insight.

[yt][/yt]

[yt][/yt]

The Spurs are fast breaking more now and have been increasing this aspect of offense more and more since 2010. The big difference now is that they have the personnel that can sustain a high pace game. There are alot of pick n roll sets in both offenses but in my opinion the Nicks, Suns under D'Antoni didn't run alot of players on off ball screens for shooters as you can see this is still a part of the Spurs offense.

Another big difference is that the Spurs run pinch post at times which is a "triangle offense" set.
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Old 04-18-12, 09:55 AM
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I appreciated you posting the videos. It gave me an insight to some of the X's and O's of the Spurs offense. My comment was a higher level conceptual comment which is why I simplified it. As I watched the game last night I noticed that most of the shot's that the Spurs were getting on the up-tempo offense were higher percentage shots in the paint or within 10 feet of the rim. The Suns of D'antoni style was simply to get an open shot up as quickly as possible whether it was a high percentage shot or not.
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Hibbert, who worked out with Duncan in San Antonio during the lockout, said he has grown close to the perennial All-Star. On Friday, he texted Duncan and asked how he should guard him.

"He said, 'Go for every pump fake,' " Hibbert said.
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  #4  
Old 04-18-12, 10:12 AM
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Yeah but that "seven seconds" thing was more of a way of selling a book. They were a fast breaking offense for sure. This is definatly stressed by pop now. However a fast break is a fast break. It's just pushing the ball up the court and creating tempo. It is what the Celticts did in the 60's, The Lakers did in the 80's and what the Heat are doing now.

When it comes to offense, where the coaches vision and philosphy comes out is when it isn't a fast break.

The Bulls with the triangle,
The Old Spurs with feeding the Post

Now a days with everybody runs a little bit of everything.

By the way, check out that guys YouTube channel and his website BBALBREAKDOWN.COM. He has a lot of insight into the games we watch. It certainly has enhanced my enjoyment of watching the game. He is a high school coach in California I think.
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Old 04-18-12, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodny21a View Post
Yeah but that "seven seconds" thing was more of a way of selling a book. They were a fast breaking offense for sure. This is definatly stressed by pop now. However a fast break is a fast break. It's just pushing the ball up the court and creating tempo. It is what the Celticts did in the 60's, The Lakers did in the 80's and what the Heat are doing now.

When it comes to offense, where the coaches vision and philosphy comes out is when it isn't a fast break.

The Bulls with the triangle,
The Old Spurs with feeding the Post

Now a days with everybody runs a little bit of everything.

By the way, check out that guys YouTube channel and his website BBALBREAKDOWN.COM. He has a lot of insight into the games we watch. It certainly has enhanced my enjoyment of watching the game. He is a high school coach in California I think.
Thanks.....I'll check it out!
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Hibbert, who worked out with Duncan in San Antonio during the lockout, said he has grown close to the perennial All-Star. On Friday, he texted Duncan and asked how he should guard him.

"He said, 'Go for every pump fake,' " Hibbert said.
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  #6  
Old 04-18-12, 12:02 PM
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I think that the only reason that the Suns didn't win a title is because of the San Antonio Spurs. Honestly, if Phoenix could have played even the slightest bit of defense in a playoff 4th quarter, they would have robbed San Antonio of at least 1 title.

Unfortunately, I think one possible antidote to San Antonio will be the Bull's defense. It is amazing and I can guarantee you that all the Spurs' wide open 3s will evaporate should they meet in a potential finals. Hopefully the Spurs' D will be up to the task throughout the playoffs to carry them through the inevitable defensive adjustments they will be faced with from playoff teams.

$
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  #7  
Old 04-18-12, 02:12 PM
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wow......i mentioned the exact same thing about how the offenses are the same and people said the Spurs don't try to score in 7 seconds or less, which was the same thing Rodney said, it's a mentality but not a mandatory action. we're looking to score as fast as we can, from an outlet to a set up offense as fast as we can.

the reason we can run now (actually now more than ever, including last year) is we got wings who can handle the rock besides Parker (Manu/Green/Leonard/Neal/Diaw) on an outlet or rebound.

like some have said, it's the defense. always...ALWAYS keep this in mind when we're playing and it's a high scoring game (i.e. when people say we're allowing 100+ppg):

when you run, there's more possessions, which equal more points. to tell if we're playing defense, you look at the amount the lead is (if we're running by 1 or 15). the Suns always were winning by around 1-7 points, which isn't playing defense. we're winning by double digits most of the time, so we're getting stops and playing good D, regardless of how much they score.
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Old 04-18-12, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
wow......i mentioned the exact same thing about how the offenses are the same and people said the Spurs don't try to score in 7 seconds or less, which was the same thing Rodney said, it's a mentality but not a mandatory action. we're looking to score as fast as we can, from an outlet to a set up offense as fast as we can.

the reason we can run now (actually now more than ever, including last year) is we got wings who can handle the rock besides Parker (Manu/Green/Leonard/Neal/Diaw) on an outlet or rebound.

like some have said, it's the defense. always...ALWAYS keep this in mind when we're playing and it's a high scoring game (i.e. when people say we're allowing 100+ppg):

when you run, there's more possessions, which equal more points. to tell if we're playing defense, you look at the amount the lead is (if we're running by 1 or 15). the Suns always were winning by around 1-7 points, which isn't playing defense. we're winning by double digits most of the time, so we're getting stops and playing good D, regardless of how much they score.
I will admit that I personally held on to the Spurs of old. The team that would milk every last drop of the shot clock to get a high percentage shot. That all changed for me when I not only watched last nights game, but heard the comments of Pop and Tony. Another benefit of the uptempo game is that it does not allow teams to set up their half court defense. This gives the Spurs an advantage against teams like the Fakers who's bigs are slow. There is no way the Spurs can setup in the half court and pound the rock in the paint like they used to because they are too small. I give Pops his props......he changed and adapted with the talent he was able to get. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone wants to come to San Antonio. I am sure Pop would love to have talented bigs to play with, but either they don't grow on trees, or they want too much money, or they want to play in larger markets. That is why Pop has chosen (for awhile now), to get talent from overseas.
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Hibbert, who worked out with Duncan in San Antonio during the lockout, said he has grown close to the perennial All-Star. On Friday, he texted Duncan and asked how he should guard him.

"He said, 'Go for every pump fake,' " Hibbert said.
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  #9  
Old 04-18-12, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodny21a View Post
Yeah but that "seven seconds" thing was more of a way of selling a book. They were a fast breaking offense for sure.
totally.

i remember watching a documentary on the book and the Suns style. basically what "7 seconds or less" meant was D'Antoni having a stop watch during practice and preaching scoring in 7 seconds or less during those drills. when they didn't score in that time, they'd go back and try again. of course you can't do that during a game, but that was their mentality.

that's something i see Spurs fans getting confused, "no this isn't the Suns offense because we don't score in 7 seconds or less". we have the same mentality. even when they force us into a half court set (like last night), you saw everyone moving and trying to score as fast as we could.

i guess some people are just skeptical because the Suns didn't win with their scheme. while we copy their offense, this overall scheme is a running scheme with defense, something they didn't do.
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Old 04-18-12, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
totally.

i remember watching a documentary on the book and the Suns style. basically what "7 seconds or less" meant was D'Antoni having a stop watch during practice and preaching scoring in 7 seconds or less during those drills. when they didn't score in that time, they'd go back and try again. of course you can't do that during a game, but that was their mentality.

that's something i see Spurs fans getting confused, "no this isn't the Suns offense because we don't score in 7 seconds or less". we have the same mentality. even when they force us into a half court set (like last night), you saw everyone moving and trying to score as fast as we could.

i guess some people are just skeptical because the Suns didn't win with their scheme. while we copy their offense, this overall scheme is a running scheme with defense, something they didn't do.
I can't speak for everyone, but I did not like the fact that the Suns would take any shot available, whether it was a high percentage shot or not. Most of the time, they would fall in love with the 3-ball. Another thing I didn't like about the Suns (and i think this is the reason they didn't win a title) is because they played very little defense. They defense they did play was the matador-type defense. The Spurs actually do play defense. Their defense is not like the championship years, but it is effective enough to get them wins.
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Hibbert, who worked out with Duncan in San Antonio during the lockout, said he has grown close to the perennial All-Star. On Friday, he texted Duncan and asked how he should guard him.

"He said, 'Go for every pump fake,' " Hibbert said.
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Old 04-18-12, 03:42 PM
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To me the difference is the spurs look for opportunities to get easy baskets by either:

1. fast break and shoot if high pct.

if not then

2. early offense, not allowing defense to set up

then run the half court set as third option

When Duncan was the primary weapon, running half court (4 down) sets was this teams high percentage offense. As mentioned above, we now have many weapons that can support an up tempo.

I think we pushed it a lot last night in order to get to the basket before Bynum and Gasol could get set. That Laker team is not designe for an up tempo game and Pop/Parker exposed that last night.

We would not do near as well with a "walk it up" type game against the lakers.

D'Antoni's style was for tempo purposes only. They didn't care about high percentage shots so much. And defense wasn't on the list of priorities. Pop still gets mad for a shot taken too early or too late depending on the circumstances. For example, last night Leonard toward the end of the game took some shots early in the shot clock that was not what they wanted.

D'Antoni never saw a shot he didn't like.
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Is our defense that good? I think so. And the scary part is that the whole team seems to take a sadistic pride in shutting people down. What is Pop feeding them? They looked brainwashed out there, a single minded machine that just eats up their opponents. -----pjrfan
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Old 04-18-12, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryhn View Post
To me the difference is the spurs look for opportunities to get easy baskets by either:

1. fast break and shoot if high pct.

if not then

2. early offense, not allowing defense to set up

then run the half court set as third option

When Duncan was the primary weapon, running half court (4 down) sets was this teams high percentage offense. As mentioned above, we now have many weapons that can support an up tempo.

I think we pushed it a lot last night in order to get to the basket before Bynum and Gasol could get set. That Laker team is not designe for an up tempo game and Pop/Parker exposed that last night.

We would not do near as well with a "walk it up" type game against the lakers.

D'Antoni's style was for tempo purposes only. They didn't care about high percentage shots so much. And defense wasn't on the list of priorities. Pop still gets mad for a shot taken too early or too late depending on the circumstances. For example, last night Leonard toward the end of the game took some shots early in the shot clock that was not what they wanted.

D'Antoni never saw a shot he didn't like.


Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Hibbert, who worked out with Duncan in San Antonio during the lockout, said he has grown close to the perennial All-Star. On Friday, he texted Duncan and asked how he should guard him.

"He said, 'Go for every pump fake,' " Hibbert said.
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Old 04-18-12, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryhn View Post
To me the difference is the spurs look for opportunities to get easy baskets by either:

1. fast break and shoot if high pct.

if not then

2. early offense, not allowing defense to set up

then run the half court set as third option

When Duncan was the primary weapon, running half court (4 down) sets was this teams high percentage offense. As mentioned above, we now have many weapons that can support an up tempo.

I think we pushed it a lot last night in order to get to the basket before Bynum and Gasol could get set. That Laker team is not designe for an up tempo game and Pop/Parker exposed that last night.

We would not do near as well with a "walk it up" type game against the lakers.

D'Antoni's style was for tempo purposes only. They didn't care about high percentage shots so much. And defense wasn't on the list of priorities. Pop still gets mad for a shot taken too early or too late depending on the circumstances. For example, last night Leonard toward the end of the game took some shots early in the shot clock that was not what they wanted.

D'Antoni never saw a shot he didn't like.
strongly disagree, mainly because Pop allows low % open shots by guys in transition (Ginobili/Neal/Mills/Jackson pulling up at the 3 point line over waiting for anyone else to come by). that's something the Suns rarely did. if Pop got mad, you'd see less of that from the guys and probably would see Neal and Mills benched for Manu playing PG and going with a big (SG-SG-SF) backcourt.

if you look at last night's game with any other game we've played, we didn't change anything with our offense. the difference is the Lakers' bigs are so slow in transition that us pushing the ball with outlet passes or Diaw rebounding and running the break really killed them since they looked to score inside most of the time and are lagging in transition.

contrary to what anyone says (and i'll say this since i'm from AZ and see the Suns): D'Antoni wasn't the "genius" behind this scheme. it was and still is Steve Nash as the floor general and calling the plays. it results in tempo, i'll agree, but can you name a whole game that we played Phoenix that we made them get out of their groove offensively with our defense in 2005 or 2007? those were still high scoring games. we made them go half court sets at times but we still saw Nash push the offense hard to try to score during the half court sets (we saw him dribble to the lane then around Duncan many times only to find an open Amare somewhere).

looking at the all around plays and mindset and comparing will lead you to believe that the Spurs are playing the same offense that the Suns did (but with defense). i truly believe some Spurs fans won't admit to it because they're refusing to believe anything that the Suns did can lead to a championship. we're playing defense, that's the bigger difference. the Spurs don't score 55+ points in a half if they're not consistently pushing the ball and trying to score as fast as they can, that's just not possible.
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Old 04-18-12, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
strongly disagree, mainly because Pop allows low % open shots by guys in transition (Ginobili/Neal/Mills/Jackson pulling up at the 3 point line over waiting for anyone else to come by). that's something the Suns rarely did.
Jose, did you know that the Suns either led the league in transition 3 point attempts or were 2nd to Orlando in every year of D'Antoni's tenure....

$
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Old 04-18-12, 04:24 PM
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Guys You're trying to change "one Person's" mind. If Jose says that the spurs are like the Pheonix suns(or is it D Antoni) then they are. It's obviouse He didn play the video I posted that sys "Spurs Offensive System" nor did he see the other video that goes over "D Antoni's System) He has drawn his own conclusions long before posting. So why argue with the guy he will never admit gaining insight from any post other than his own.

With Jose it's not a discussion, its a lecture.

In fact, Jose can you do us a favor?

Can you attempt to write a 3 paragraph essay on what you call this Spurs/Suns System?

It's really hard to follow you at times because you appear to split your ideas in separate post while lecturing to separate posters. So can you please just write 3 concise paragraphs over what you call the "Spurs/Suns" offensive "system"

This is for edification and clarification purposes.

Last edited by Rodny21a; 04-18-12 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 04-18-12, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodny21a View Post
With Jose it's not a discussion, its a lecture.

In fact, Jose can you do us a favor?

Can you attempt to write a 3 paragraph essay on what you call this Spurs/Suns System?

It's really hard to follow you at times because you appear to split your ideas in separate post while lecturing to separate posters. So can you please just write 3 concise paragraphs over what you call the "Spurs/Suns" offensive "system"

This is for edification and clarification purposes.
you posted a few videos, calm down. i have watched the Suns well enough since Nash came to Arizona and have seen the Spurs more than a handful of times to establish my opinion. oh crap, did i say opinion? weren't you the one who said "Sorry my facts" blah blah blah.

i've tried to explain WHY the Spurs are playing the Suns offense: it's a hurry up and score mode. it may happen in 7 seconds or less, it may happen in 20 seconds, but not the whole 24 seconds. we're hurrying to score, that's what Phoenix did. the plays, are they exactly the same? did Steve Nash P&R with anyone other than Amare back in 2005? no. Parker P&R's with Blair/Duncan/Splitter and pops with Bonner.

the plays, again, are not the same. the mentality is.

get a grip Mr. Lord of the Rings "my pic is so cool LOLZ"

btw, i purposely don't respond to you or try not to, so you won't be crying about how you're attacked on here (even though you do it first)
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Old 04-18-12, 06:08 PM
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Ok.. Can you point out these incidences of the Spurs/Suns Offene in this video?
[yt][/yt]

Because I just don't see what your are trying to say in the actual tape of the game.

Then again perception is 100% of a persons reality and in the end we all see what we ant to see.

The Spurs Run Fast breaks when they are available. They push the ball up the court at a fast pace, but not the fastest.

However They run the "spurs offensive System" that was posted in the first video I posted where an actual Basketball Coach dissected the "spurs offensive system" and at no time does that coach say words to the effect "The Spurs run a Suns offensive system".


Last edited by Rodny21a; 04-18-12 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 04-18-12, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodny21a View Post
Ok.. Can you point out these incidences of the Spurs/Suns Offene in this video?
[yt]

Because I just don't see what your are trying to say in the actual tape of the game.

Then again perception is 100% of a persons reality and in the end we all see what we ant to see.

The Spurs Run Fast breaks when they are available. They push the ball up the court at a fast pace, but not the fastest.

However They run the "spurs offensive System" that was posted in the first video I posted where an actual Basketball Coach dissected the "spurs offensive system" and at no time does that coach say words to the effect "The Spurs run a Suns offensive system".




oh look same play it's not about posting clips, it's about the WHOLE game. are we LOOKING to score fast? are we LOOKING to fast break? doesn't mean we do, doesn't mean we score in 7 seconds or less, but we cannot be scoring 120 points in games unless we have that mentality. there's a very good reason why before we couldn't go over 90 at times and now how we go over 105ppg most of the time

did you see the quick shots by the Lakers there? do they have a Suns mentality? no, because they don't fast break consistently. that's a huge part of that mentality, you'll take easy points when you get them in the fast break....wait for it....just like us, just like any team!

you want me to watch the whole video and tell you which times? i'm game for that, heck i'll do it on Facebook to not take up the space here. i'll watch it after the Kings game.

remember, i said we have the Suns mindset because they look to push the ball (they don't score in 7 seconds EVERY time). if we're looking to push the ball EVERY time (yes, looking to fast break every time), then i'm correct. if we're walking the ball up to the half court then scoring, then i'd be wrong.

of course you're not gonna say i'm not making sense or you still want me to watch the vid?
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Old 04-18-12, 07:16 PM
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Why did you "strongly disagree" with Bryn when He said,"1. fast break and shoot if high pct.

if not then

2. early offense, not allowing defense to set up

then run the half court set as third option"

But now you are telling us that

"you'll take easy points when you get them in the fast break...."

Do you read the post you are attempting to contradict?
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Old 04-18-12, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodny21a View Post
Why did you "strongly disagree" with Bryn when He said,"1. fast break and shoot if high pct.

if not then

2. early offense, not allowing defense to set up

then run the half court set as third option"

But now you are telling us that

"you'll take easy points when you get them in the fast break...."

Do you read the post you are attempting to contradict?
he said it in contrast to D'Antoni's system, which it isn't. the Suns NEVER went fast break and quick shot with no one else for help on offense like we do with Neal/Manu/Mills/Jackson at times, those aren't high %'s, so that's not true in contrast to D'Antoni's offense (did you see Nash alone in that clip to the bounce pass to a ghost Amare?)

the Suns do a set up offense, there is no game EVER by the Suns where they've never set up the offense, so that's not true in comparing the 2 clubs. they set up from when it's their possession (again, that clip they shoot early but EVERYONE is set up on offense). even when they don't get a shot up that early, Nash dribbles it out and sees who can find (like when he goes circles around Duncan or any big man in the paint when they collapse on him), which is still a set up offense. even in a set up offense, Nash is pushing to score as fast as possible (doesn't mean he's going to score as fast as he wants to). mentality doesn't = actually doing it physically. we're looking to push every time, doesn't mean we do score every time.

no i'm not contradicting myself, i'm just waiting for you to come to your senses and swallow your pride by admitting you're wrong. get it? thank you, you're welcome
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Old 04-18-12, 07:51 PM
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What am I wrong about?

I am really trying to get you to write a concise statement of what it is you are arguing. In this latest post about Nash, if you had bothered to play the video I posted on "offensive system" it illustrates what you are attempting to say(I think)

I really don't understand what you are saying. In one post you say the spurs are looking to score at a faster pace. In another I think your saying that the Suns didn't run fast breaks. In still another post you say that the spurs, by taking 3 pointers off the fast break, are taking "low percentage shots".(even though they have high percentage 3 point shooters taking those shots)

With all of your statements. I do believe the original poster wanted get information on what the "spurs offensive system" was so I posted the Video. He thanked me.

Jose the only one who wants to be right here is you. I have never said "admit when your wrong", you have. I have never said,"I strongly disagree", you have.

I have said that if you want to think what you think then go ahead and think that. What I object to in this thread is that until you entered the thread was a discussion. No body was playing "gatcha" but then you started disagreeing with everybody in the thread (and posting quotes).

You are not attempting discourse.
You want everybody to agree with your conclusions.
Then again your "the moderator everybody loves to hate" so you're try to live up to that, I think.

At the end of the day five people have posted in this thread four don't agree with you. You want them to.

In conclusion. If you think the spurs are the suns. NOTED.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-12, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodny21a View Post
What am I wrong about?

I am really trying to get you to write a concise statement of what it is you are arguing. In this latest post about Nash, if you had bothered to play the video I posted on "offensive system" it illustrates what you are attempting to say(I think)

I really don't understand what you are saying. In one post you say the spurs are looking to score at a faster pace. In another I think your saying that the Suns didn't run fast breaks. In still another post you say that the spurs, by taking 3 pointers off the fast break, are taking "low percentage shots".(even though they have high percentage 3 point shooters taking those shots)

With all of your statements. I do believe the original poster wanted get information on what the "spurs offensive system" was so I posted the Video. He thanked me.

Jose the only one who wants to be right here is you. I have never said "admit when your wrong", you have. I have never said,"I strongly disagree", you have.

I have said that if you want to think what you think then go ahead and think that. What I object to in this thread is that until you entered the thread was a discussion. No body was playing "gatcha" but then you started disagreeing with everybody in the thread (and posting quotes).

You are not attempting discourse.
You want everybody to agree with your conclusions.
Then again your "the moderator everybody loves to hate" so you're try to live up to that, I think.

At the end of the day five people have posted in this thread four don't agree with you. You want them to.

In conclusion. If you think the spurs are the suns. NOTED.
i think the Spurs are the Suns on offense, yes, i've said the difference is the defense. NOTED!

btw, you say i lecture? write a book fella
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Old 04-19-12, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
i think the Spurs are the Suns on offense, yes, i've said the difference is the defense. NOTED!

btw, you say i lecture? write a book fella
Although the Spurs are similar in offense there is one huge difference..... Phoenix did it with less depth... Usually about 8 guys and those 8 guys played a ton of minutes.... Which in turn would hurt their chances more in the 4th quarter to make defensive stops due to being gassed. That is the main reason they couldn't win it all... The Suns actually played some decent defense but when they did it was only in small spurts. Hence all the close games they had... This Spurs team has way more potential to make the fast paced system work because they have more man power...
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Old 04-19-12, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ibanezsr View Post
Although the Spurs are similar in offense there is one huge difference..... Phoenix did it with less depth... Usually about 8 guys and those 8 guys played a ton of minutes.... Which in turn would hurt their chances more in the 4th quarter to make defensive stops due to being gassed. That is the main reason they couldn't win it all... The Suns actually played some decent defense but when they did it was only in small spurts. Hence all the close games they had... This Spurs team has way more potential to make the fast paced system work because they have more man power...
agreed, we're at least 10 deep while the Suns were 8 deep the whole season. he's trying to argue the mindset on offense and how it's different, but in reality we have the same mindset and now will probably post a jpeg in response....or somethin
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Old 04-19-12, 11:23 PM
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PACE AND SPACE.
The Recipe for the San Antonio Spurs: Pace, Space and Tony Parker - NYTimes.com
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Old 04-20-12, 12:03 AM
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I was skeptical at first that the Spurs ran the same offense as the Phoenix Suns so I did a little digging on Youtube. I found this video on the half court set:



I don't know about you, but that looked like THE EXACT SAME halfcourt offense as the Spurs run now right down to the stretch 4 (Frye/Bonner). I was ready to call it just very similar until they showed that pick and pop at 1:50 which is one of Duncan's bread and butter plays. If anything, the Spurs offense is just more evolved because it features more players setting the screen and adds Pop's motion offense which was so well broken down in that first video. That really is the nature of sports, study what your opponents do, take what works and make improvements.

As has been stated by other people, I think the main difference is in pace. Where both teams liked to run the break, the Suns featured a lot more early offense as the opponent's defense came out of the transition if there was nothing on the break, whereas Parker is more likely to just create something out of nothing on the break or go into the set pick and roll or motion sets.

Last edited by b1gdon; 04-20-12 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 04-20-12, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by b1gdon View Post
I don't know about you, but that looked like THE EXACT SAME halfcourt offense as the Spurs run now right down to the stretch 4 (Frye/Bonner). I was ready to call it just very similar until they showed that pick and pop at 1:50 which is one of Duncan's bread and butter plays. If anything, the Spurs offense is just more evolved because it features more players setting the screen and adds Pop's motion offense which was so well broken down in that first video. That really is the nature of sports, study what your opponents do, take what works and make improvements.

As has been stated by other people, I think the main difference is in pace. Where both teams liked to run the break, the Suns featured a lot more early offense as the opponent's defense came out of the transition if there was nothing on the break, whereas Parker is more likely to just create something out of nothing on the break or go into the set pick and roll or motion sets.
great find on the video! while most of them are pick and roll plays, remember also the last year Amare was in Phoenix, he was also a mid range jump shooter and they ran a pick and pop (like Duncan nowadays, which you said is his most reliable way to get a shot).

like you said though, same plays, the Suns go into transition and try to push or set up a quick play (which we do nowadays). the only difference is Parker pushes for a shot while Nash pushes for an open look for someone (still the same mentality of pushing).

like you said, you can watch all the plays and check the different units we use and put someone out there in the positions with the effective combos on this deep team
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Old 04-20-12, 07:52 AM
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That's all fine, but that wasn't D'Antoni's offense. That was 2010. D Antoni left like in 2008. And notice, all their plays were slower paced and shots were taken around the 10-14 second mark. That's just pick and roll offense that everyone plays. It's still not the old 2005 Suns offense.
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Old 04-20-12, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
That's all fine, but that wasn't D'Antoni's offense. That was 2010. D Antoni left like in 2008. And notice, all their plays were slower paced and shots were taken around the 10-14 second mark. That's just pick and roll offense that everyone plays. It's still not the old 2005 Suns offense.
how's that slow? they shot made a lot of those baskets early in the shot clock, they just ran back early on defense (because well....they kind of don't play it )

D'Antoni wasn't the genius behind most of those plays (see New York Knicks during his tenure). he preached the fast pace, but Nash also made a lot of the plays and called them too since you notice Phoenix rarely calls a timeout or Nash has D'Antoni give him any plays.

during the glory days here, Fox Sports would always run a "behind the scenes" documentary where Nash would be advising the guys the play, where to stand, and where to motion.
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Old 04-20-12, 10:55 AM
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something im been wondering...

i remember reading here, that pop was very good defensive coach and bad offensive coach... and when pj carlesimo walked away, spurs gonna suffer on the offensive end...

was the exact opposite...

who is coaching spurs offense?
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  #31  
Old 04-20-12, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanCaca View Post
something im been wondering...

i remember reading here, that pop was very good defensive coach and bad offensive coach... and when pj carlesimo walked away, spurs gonna suffer on the offensive end...

was the exact opposite...

who is coaching spurs offense?
we're using different plays, which helps us run. not going 4 Down, pick and roll, and isos (Pop's plays for the Big 3 since 2004) helps us score 100+ points.

Athenea (our fellow Argie) says the Spurs have run a lot of national team plays. Diaw said Parker has run Spurs plays for the French NT and also had French plays run the past 2 years here. i don't think Pop is a great offensive coach. i think he can coach one play out of a timeout for a shot though.

the difference with PJ was the off the ball motion and spotting up than actually coaching offense. we really didn't change the offense up until Duncan couldn't go anymore, like a last resort. 2009 we had TP pick and rolls and Duncan 4 Downs which Dallas countered and embarrassed us. 2010 Pop tried to run Sean Elliot plays with 4 Downs and the same stuff. last year we had a running/motion offense early on but Pop then went back to his slow set up 4 Down/Parker pick & roll/isolation plays vs. the Grizzlies and we got spanked.

this year it's been a freer offense which leads you to believe Pop isn't coaching the offense as much as he did last year (i only say that because our defense has been way better and probably focusing the majority on that)
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  #32  
Old 04-20-12, 11:17 AM
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thanks!!

yep i noticed in a few games that was able to watch... a kind of "fiba-syle" in some sets...

i tought it was by design to maximize tiago use/efficency..

but i guess was the argie and french "contributions" to the program ;)..
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  #33  
Old 04-20-12, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
how's that slow? they shot made a lot of those baskets early in the shot clock, they just ran back early on defense (because well....they kind of don't play it )

D'Antoni wasn't the genius behind most of those plays (see New York Knicks during his tenure). he preached the fast pace, but Nash also made a lot of the plays and called them too since you notice Phoenix rarely calls a timeout or Nash has D'Antoni give him any plays.

during the glory days here, Fox Sports would always run a "behind the scenes" documentary where Nash would be advising the guys the play, where to stand, and where to motion.
If you watched the Clips/Suns game, the Clips also run a typical pick and roll half court offense. That's because they have a great PG. The point is, the Suns of 05-07 ran alot and even jacked up transition 3's alot. If they were slowed down, like the Spurs defense made them, THEN you would see the half court pick and roll offense. It happens to be that the Suns were still very good at that because of Nash. But that wasn't the Suns preference back then.

The Spurs have changed from the old 4-Down offense to the pick and roll offense as their bread and butter. But that doesn't make them like the old Suns team.
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