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  #1  
Old 04-08-12, 06:29 PM
mckennaspur1's Avatar
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Draft day musing

Spurs used dependably solid young vet George Hill to get the Pacers to pick up Kawhi for them at #15 in last year's draft.

I'm wondering whether Gary Neal (shaped by the Spurs into a dependable young vet) could be the focus of the same kind of deal this year to pick up a targeted first rounder.

Last edited by mckennaspur1; 04-08-12 at 06:43 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-08-12, 08:33 PM
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Hill is a good player, a tweener but a multi-dimensional player. Neal can only shoot and he's been outshined by Patty Mills in the short time Mills has been here.

unless a team is desperate for a guy that can only shoot (and that'd be a championship contender who's pick wouldn't be high),i wouldn't bet on it. Hill was a hometown boy too, which sweetened the deal.
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Old 04-08-12, 09:10 PM
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No way any team is going to trade its first round pick for Gary Neal. Spurs have no pick of their own, after the SJax trade.
The Hill trade also included the Spurs' first rounder. Hill and a first round pick for the rights to Leonard.

Last edited by katyspursfan; 04-08-12 at 09:14 PM.
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  #4  
Old 04-08-12, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
The Hill trade also included the Spurs' first rounder. Hill and a first round pick for the rights to Leonard.
I'm not sure that's correct. I'm sure it was just Hill straight up for Leonard and a pacers throw in player. Otherwise how would we have gotten Joseph later in the 1st rd if it wasn't with your own 1st rd pick.
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Old 04-08-12, 09:43 PM
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We don't need any draft picks next year. We should re-sign Green, Duncan, Diaw, and Mills, and bring Lorbek over from europe.


I would trade our 2nd round pick also if we don't use it on a stashed away euro player.
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  #6  
Old 04-08-12, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
No way any team is going to trade its first round pick for Gary Neal. Spurs have no pick of their own, after the SJax trade.
The Hill trade also included the Spurs' first rounder. Hill and a first round pick for the rights to Leonard.
You're wrong again! Spurs drafted Joseph with their own selection at #29! Wrong again as usual.
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  #7  
Old 04-08-12, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choppsboy View Post
We don't need any draft picks next year. We should re-sign Green, Duncan, Diaw, and Mills, and bring Lorbek over from europe.


I would trade our 2nd round pick also if we don't use it on a stashed away euro player.
Actually they should have traded the Joseph pick for one this year in a deeper draft. Joseph did not have a first round grade. But I guess they wanted him that bad and their second rounder was too high to get Joseph. They need to decide what to do the all those euro guys. Bring them over or trade them. Don't want another Javtokas or Scola incident. There are some great blue chip players coming out this year. So I want more picks but quality picks like the Kawhi move. It's gonna be hard to re-sign those 4 mentioned and bring over Lorbek but that's a good summer plan to aim for. If a team offered me a top 20 pick for Blair I would take it in a heartbeat! Regardless of what happens it's gonna be an interesting summer.
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  #8  
Old 04-08-12, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckennaspur1 View Post
Spurs used dependably solid young vet George Hill to get the Pacers to pick up Kawhi for them at #15 in last year's draft.

I'm wondering whether Gary Neal (shaped by the Spurs into a dependable young vet) could be the focus of the same kind of deal this year to pick up a targeted first rounder.
They should keep Neal first off. Second he has a very low salary! Picks will be at a premium this year unlike the last few years. Look at GS they took on an extra 11 million bucks in the SJax trade for a projected #25-#30 draft pick. That's paying way over. Like 4 times too much for that very low value pick! Some teams are hurting for money still but I see more second rounders being bought for cash versus first rounders at least this summer. IF there is a Neal trade he will be packaged with a higher salary.(Bonner) That would make more sense trade wise.I think best case draft pick wise you could maybe get pick #30 out of like say the Heat. Looking for a missing bench piece type of deal.
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  #9  
Old 04-09-12, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaze24k View Post
I'm not sure that's correct. I'm sure it was just Hill straight up for Leonard and a pacers throw in player. Otherwise how would we have gotten Joseph later in the 1st rd if it wasn't with your own 1st rd pick.
Whoops. Got all the Morey draft day trading confused with the single Spurs' trade.

Sorry.
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  #10  
Old 04-10-12, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
They should keep Neal first off. Second he has a very low salary! Picks will be at a premium this year unlike the last few years. Look at GS they took on an extra 11 million bucks in the SJax trade for a projected #25-#30 draft pick. That's paying way over. Like 4 times too much for that very low value pick! Some teams are hurting for money still but I see more second rounders being bought for cash versus first rounders at least this summer. IF there is a Neal trade he will be packaged with a higher salary.(Bonner) That would make more sense trade wise.I think best case draft pick wise you could maybe get pick #30 out of like say the Heat. Looking for a missing bench piece type of deal.
I don't think Golden State overpaid for the pick as much as you conclude they did. DaTrillStak5 has been unhappy and unmotivated playing for a string of crap teams and that doesn't mesh with the culture Mark Jackson is trying to build in Oakland. Additionally, Richard Jefferson was a classic buy-low proposition; it's hard to fathom how he could play any worse than he did for San Antonio. If he can get back to giving them starter minutes and 15 ppg next season, that'll upgrade their roster.
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  #11  
Old 04-10-12, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAsucksForever View Post
I don't think Golden State overpaid for the pick as much as you conclude they did. DaTrillStak5 has been unhappy and unmotivated playing for a string of crap teams and that doesn't mesh with the culture Mark Jackson is trying to build in Oakland. Additionally, Richard Jefferson was a classic buy-low proposition; it's hard to fathom how he could play any worse than he did for San Antonio. If he can get back to giving them starter minutes and 15 ppg next season, that'll upgrade their roster.
If 11 million for a bottom five first rounder is not overpaid what price is? Some teams have sold first rounders for 3 million tops! Don't believe me look it up. As to your part on the actual players involved......Mark Jackson said he was looking forward to using SJax in his comments after the Bucks deal. How is RJ buy low? More like buy high! Yeah he can't do worse than SA but for more money than Steph Curry and others who are better players on the same team up there? I'd pass on that and for one more year longer than SJax? No thanks again. The pick is not worth that money. SJax is better than RJ right now on any team. One more year on your cap at 11 million. I rest my case.
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  #12  
Old 04-11-12, 01:17 PM
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I don't understand the hate for Gary Neal. He's like 10 deep on our roster. He's making less than $1 million a year. The guy has way outperformed his paycheck. He is not that bad. He can shoot and yes can be streaky, but he also can put the ball on the floor and finish with a floater or at the rim. He's just not a point guard and is way out of position when asked to run the point. Now that Mills is catching on, Neal shouldn't be at the point anymore, unless of course TP and Manu are resting. Most teams in the league would kill to have Neal's shooting coming off the bench for what he's getting paid.
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  #13  
Old 04-11-12, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwilly101 View Post
I don't understand the hate for Gary Neal. He's like 10 deep on our roster. He's making less than $1 million a year. The guy has way outperformed his paycheck. He is not that bad. He can shoot and yes can be streaky, but he also can put the ball on the floor and finish with a floater or at the rim. He's just not a point guard and is way out of position when asked to run the point. Now that Mills is catching on, Neal shouldn't be at the point anymore, unless of course TP and Manu are resting. Most teams in the league would kill to have Neal's shooting coming off the bench for what he's getting paid.
I don't hate him, I just think he shouldn't be playing the point. And he's streaky as heck. AND people act like he was a playoff monster when in reality he shot 26% from 3 last year. Bonner actually shot better, but people are ready to burn Bonner at the stake.
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  #14  
Old 04-11-12, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
I don't hate him, I just think he shouldn't be playing the point. And he's streaky as heck. AND people act like he was a playoff monster when in reality he shot 26% from 3 last year. Bonner actually shot better, but people are ready to burn Bonner at the stake.
Neal made a last second GW shot in the playoffs. Bonner sucks in the playoffs every year. Just the facts.
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  #15  
Old 04-11-12, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
Neal made a last second GW shot in the playoffs. Bonner sucks in the playoffs every year. Just the facts.
He made a game tying shot to send it into OT, and it was a lucky shot. Overall, Bonner shot better than 26%. THAT'S the facts.
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  #16  
Old 04-11-12, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
He made a game tying shot to send it into OT, and it was a lucky shot. Overall, Bonner shot better than 26%. THAT'S the facts.

You're right game tying shot my bad but that gave them the chance to eventually win the game. Bonner shot what 33% from 3 last postseason? Bonner is 32% career postseason! 26% is not good but 33% is not ripping the nets off either. If you want more postseason stats or facts it won't be in your favor. Bonner has a history of playoff failure. FACT!

Postseason Totals
SEASONTEAMFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%ORDRREBASTBLKSTLPFTOPTS
'06-'072-7.2861-4.2502-21.000213002637
'07-'082-3.6670-0.0000-0.000022200004
'08-'095-23.2173-13.2312-21.0006101602310215
'09-'1019-44.43210-27.3702-21.0007253243122750
'10-'1112-25.4806-18.3338-10.8007121921118138
Career40-102.39220-62.32314-16.8752250728675613114
Postseason Totals
SEASONTEAMFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%ORDRREBASTBLKSTLPFTOPTS
'06-'072-7.2861-4.2502-21.000213002637
'07-'082-3.6670-0.0000-0.000022200004
'08-'095-23.2173-13.2312-21.0006101602310215
'09-'1019-44.43210-27.3702-21.0007253243122750
'10-'1112-25.4806-18.3338-10.8007121921118138
Career40-102.39220-62.32314-16.8752250728675613114

Last edited by WILLTHETHRILL; 04-11-12 at 03:29 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-11-12, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
You're right game tying shot my bad but that gave them the chance to eventually win the game. Bonner shot what 33% from 3 last postseason? Bonner is 32% career postseason! 26% is not good but 33% is not ripping the nets off either. If you want more postseason stats or facts it won't be in your favor. Bonner has a history of playoff failure. FACT!

Postseason Totals
SEASONTEAMFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%ORDRREBASTBLKSTLPFTOPTS
'06-'072-7.2861-4.2502-21.000213002637
'07-'082-3.6670-0.0000-0.000022200004
'08-'095-23.2173-13.2312-21.0006101602310215
'09-'1019-44.43210-27.3702-21.0007253243122750
'10-'1112-25.4806-18.3338-10.8007121921118138
Career40-102.39220-62.32314-16.8752250728675613114
Postseason Totals
SEASONTEAMFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%ORDRREBASTBLKSTLPFTOPTS
'06-'072-7.2861-4.2502-21.000213002637
'07-'082-3.6670-0.0000-0.000022200004
'08-'095-23.2173-13.2312-21.0006101602310215
'09-'1019-44.43210-27.3702-21.0007253243122750
'10-'1112-25.4806-18.3338-10.8007121921118138
Career40-102.39220-62.32314-16.8752250728675613114
That's all fine and dandy, but we were comparing Neal and Bonner from last year's playoffs. And Bonner's numbers were better. I'm not disputing his previous playoffs, even though he was decent in 09-10.
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  #18  
Old 04-11-12, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
That's all fine and dandy, but we were comparing Neal and Bonner from last year's playoffs. And Bonner's numbers were better. I'm not disputing his previous playoffs, even though he was decent in 09-10.
Postseason Totals
SEASONTEAMFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%ORDRREBASTBLKSTLPFTOPTS
'06-'072-7.2861-4.2502-21.000213002637
'07-'082-3.6670-0.0000-0.000022200004
'08-'095-23.2173-13.2312-21.0006101602310215
'09-'1019-44.43210-27.3702-21.0007253243122750
'10-'1112-25.4806-18.3338-10.8007121921118138
Career40-102.39220-62.32314-16.8752250728675613114
Postseason Totals
SEASONTEAMFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%ORDRREBASTBLKSTLPFTOPTS
'06-'072-7.2861-4.2502-21.000213002637
'07-'082-3.6670-0.0000-0.000022200004
'08-'095-23.2173-13.2312-21.0006101602310215
'09-'1019-44.43210-27.3702-21.0007253243122750
'10-'1112-25.4806-18.3338-10.8007121921118138
Career40-102.39220-62.32314-16.8752250728675613114

If you are saying Bonner had a better OVERALL playoffs because he shot 7% better from 3 than Neal than go right ahead........... you will be the only one on here saying that........ stats or not! :applause
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  #19  
Old 04-11-12, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
Postseason Totals
SEASONTEAMFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%ORDRREBASTBLKSTLPFTOPTS
'06-'072-7.2861-4.2502-21.000213002637
'07-'082-3.6670-0.0000-0.000022200004
'08-'095-23.2173-13.2312-21.0006101602310215
'09-'1019-44.43210-27.3702-21.0007253243122750
'10-'1112-25.4806-18.3338-10.8007121921118138
Career40-102.39220-62.32314-16.8752250728675613114
Postseason Totals
SEASONTEAMFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%ORDRREBASTBLKSTLPFTOPTS
'06-'072-7.2861-4.2502-21.000213002637
'07-'082-3.6670-0.0000-0.000022200004
'08-'095-23.2173-13.2312-21.0006101602310215
'09-'1019-44.43210-27.3702-21.0007253243122750
'10-'1112-25.4806-18.3338-10.8007121921118138
Career40-102.39220-62.32314-16.8752250728675613114

If you are saying Bonner had a better OVERALL playoffs because he shot 7% better from 3 than Neal than go right ahead........... you will be the only one on here saying that........ stats or not! :applause
So now we're NOT looking at fact, we are stating opinion. Got it.
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Old 04-11-12, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
So now we're NOT looking at fact, we are stating opinion. Got it.
Chew on this.................


7 % better from 3 that's it!

what else you got?

overall scoring average for 2011 playoffs?

who had a higher one? Neal or Bonner?

Kevin Durant is better than Brian Scalabrine.

That's my opinion! Not a fact I guess according to your scale!

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  #21  
Old 04-11-12, 05:02 PM
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What are the spurs needs?

This is all relative when you look at it.

With team as constructed now they really have filled all there present needs and the results speak for themselves thus far.(the we need a seven footer argument not with standing...but I'm sure you know how I feel about that) Now I'm not saying that this team is a failure or success because if they don't win a championship this year then we are all going to be very upset.

So what are the teams long term needs if they are trying to sustain the present level of excellence?

1. Heir to Duncan as a franchise Player
2. Heir to Parker as a Point Guard
3. Heir To Manu as the heart of the team.

So ask yourselves this... ?

are they likely to find that in the draft this year or any year?
Probably not...

So can the spurs package 2 or three players from the current roster to move up in the draft...

Yes

Will moving up in the draft significantly improve this current team...no
because Leonard is an exception to the rule as far as how well NBA rookies perform under Pop. The last time a rookie was this good was Parker and that was ten years ago.

So Wouldn't it behoove the Spurs to get a proven Player that would improve the team now>

So who can you get for( in this case) Neal that would be better than Neal in the Spurs System?


So I just don't see the spurs doing anything with the draft this year...

Last edited by Rodny21a; 04-11-12 at 05:10 PM.
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  #22  
Old 04-11-12, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
That's all fine and dandy, but we were comparing Neal and Bonner from last year's playoffs. And Bonner's numbers were better. I'm not disputing his previous playoffs, even though he was decent in 09-10.
I see that Will is still throwing out one sided debates (thank gawd for idiot filters).
Did he end it with a "Bonner sucks! Period!"? Because it's so hard to debate a point if it's emphasized with "Period!". Were Neal's numbers ever presented?

Regardless, a six game series is hardly a data set from which to pull meaningful statistical data. Spurs didn't lose last year against MEM because of Neal, Bonner or anything not named Duncan, Parker or Ginobili. Those three show up as they should, Spurs win.

If those three don't show up this playoffs, no need to assign blame to to the 4-12 guys on the bench.
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  #23  
Old 04-11-12, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katyspursfan View Post
I see that Will is still throwing out one sided debates (thank gawd for idiot filters).
Did he end it with a "Bonner sucks! Period!"? Because it's so hard to debate a point if it's emphasized with "Period!". Were Neal's numbers ever presented?

Regardless, a six game series is hardly a data set from which to pull meaningful statistical data. Spurs didn't lose last year against MEM because of Neal, Bonner or anything not named Duncan, Parker or Ginobili. Those three show up as they should, Spurs win.

If those three don't show up this playoffs, no need to assign blame to to the 4-12 guys on the bench.
I did put 26% for Neal's shooting and Bonner was 7% higher from 3 in the playoffs for last year!
Huge difference.(sarcasm) Neal has one playoff series you want a whole page of stats for him? I can't provide that.
Idiot filter? Oh okay Mr. Lin! Or is it Mr. Fortune Cookie? Here is Gary's playoff stats. Oh my gosh it says 26% which was already stated half a dozen times already! Whatever fortune cookie historian. Do your research before popping off on fortune cookies and NBA basketball. And read the WHOLE post too!




Postseason Totals



SEASON

TEAM

FGM-A

FG%

3PM-A

3P%

FTM-A

FT%

OR

DR

REB

AST

BLK

STL

PF

TO

PTS



'10-'11


SA

17-46

.370

5-19

.263

7-7

1.000

2

16

18

5

1

1

11

2

46



Career

17-46

.370

5-19

.263

7-7

1.000

2

16

18

5

1

1

11

2

46





Postseason Misc Totals

Last edited by WILLTHETHRILL; 04-11-12 at 05:39 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-11-12, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
Chew on this.................


7 % better from 3 that's it!

what else you got?

overall scoring average for 2011 playoffs?

who had a higher one? Neal or Bonner?

Kevin Durant is better than Brian Scalabrine.

That's my opinion! Not a fact I guess according to your scale!

Bonner was more efficient. Gary Neal wasn't. Don't know what you're arguing about. I didn't say "Bonner kicked ass!", although that would be a WILLTHETHRILL-like statement. Just admit it, you don't like Bonner. We are comparing the two players numbers from last years playoffs, correct?
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  #25  
Old 04-11-12, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
Bonner was more efficient. Gary Neal wasn't. Don't know what you're arguing about. I didn't say "Bonner kicked ass!", although that would be a WILLTHETHRILL-like statement. Just admit it, you don't like Bonner. We are comparing the two players numbers from last years playoffs, correct?
I never said you said he kicked ass and took names or anything close to that! Did I?
You said he was better. I say Neal was.
I'm not arguing! I can't have an opinion in the USA?
I don't like Bonner. True but I hope he does better because he is a Spur.
33% and 26% are not considered good 3 point numbers FYI. Playoff % wise makes it worse.
People on here say I said we lost in the playoffs because of Bonner........ please.
I never implied that!!!!!!!!!
I don't understand all the Neal hate lately to be honest.
Salary wise he is a steal!
Face it on here RJ and Bonner got the most of heat the last few years for a valid reason or two. I don't think thats a stretch comment at all.

Last edited by WILLTHETHRILL; 04-11-12 at 06:13 PM.
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