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  #1  
Old 01-21-12, 11:03 AM
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Bench Duncan - Start Splitter

It is time to realize that Tim Duncan is done. He is not getting the job done at all. Every time Splitter and the 2nd unit comes into the game, things start turning around.

I love Duncan, but his time is OVER!

Plus minus is not the most reliable stat, but when Duncan plays 25 minutes, and his team goes down by 15 points while Splitter plays 25 minutes and during that time the team goes up by 14 points it is hart to argue against the fact that Splitter is more effective than Duncan.

Not to mention the fact that you can see it in the games. Duncan is slow. . . . . real slow. He isn't active at all. He has no more post up game at all. All he has left is a jump shot.

Thomson and Cousins dominated Duncan, but they didn't Dominate Splitter.


So what say you?
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Old 01-21-12, 12:20 PM
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  #3  
Old 01-21-12, 01:03 PM
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i hate to admit it, but last night, our defense was WAY better with Tiago in there, whether he was with Blair or Bonner. Duncan's too slow on rotations and he doesn't give us anything on offense. i'd prefer to start Splitter and Duncan and bring in a Blair/Bonner for TD and mix/match that way, but Duncan isn't giving us much when we need him to on any end of the floor
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Old 01-21-12, 01:32 PM
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So TD had a bad game one time here against the young Kings. So what.

We NEED TD to start and set up everything. He might be a step or two slower but he has the fundamentals to set up everything and Pop knows that.

What I saw from last night's game was a matchup that called for a run and gun team that plays physical D and Pop did not substitute to counter that quick enough.

I did not like Blair at the beginning of the game. I really do not like to see Blair looking distracted not paying attention to the game. I feel like Blair is not taking games seriously at the beginning of games and I wish that Pop would put in Tiago as soon as he can.

I LOVE to see Tiago's GAME FACE. He does look scary for some of the mismatches and those are huge. I always felt Pop is letting Blair start because Blair is fragile and will not handle coming from the bench as good as Tiago. Tiago is a professional and confident player and he knows he has the skills and the very high basketball IQ. Pop is staring his fragile buddy and keeping his weapon in the bench to bring it to give that PUNCH!
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Old 01-21-12, 01:40 PM
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It wasn't just one game. It was several games actually. I noticed when Green, Neal, Splitter and even Bonner on the floor, they keep us in games. I love Tim but he's definitely beyond the shell of his former self.
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Old 01-21-12, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalloJD View Post
It wasn't just one game. It was several games actually. I noticed when Green, Neal, Splitter and even Bonner on the floor, they keep us in games. I love Tim but he's definitely beyond the shell of his former self.


but very true. it's been several games, even the ones we've won. what's more sad than TD being late on rotations is him trying to go 4 Down and not getting anything up on the basket.

if we were going on one game alone, then i'd say this was beyond a bad night for Duncan because the guy kept falling at everything and taking a long time to get up (whether it was trying to take a charge or trying to make a basket). you just don't do that on a bad night, you do that when you're trying to do things you can't do anymore.
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Old 01-21-12, 04:27 PM
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Duncan needs to move to center full time bottom line.
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  #8  
Old 01-21-12, 06:00 PM
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maybe not so much bench duncan as swap Blair for Tiago
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  #9  
Old 01-21-12, 06:01 PM
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but its gonna tottaly damage blair..
but i say do it early in the season now, rather than later... so blair can adjust.
blair is still bringin it, and he'll prob get almost the same minutes
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  #10  
Old 01-21-12, 09:31 PM
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wow...after the game tiago had tonight that may be a consideration. glad to see tiago gaining that confidence.
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  #11  
Old 01-21-12, 10:49 PM
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First of all, this schedule is not good for Duncan. He's tired. So give him a break. He deserves it.

Second, Splitter had a great game today, but against bad interior defense. He didn't do any of that against Dalembert. And Scola is a joke on defense. I'm actually glad we have Splitter rather than Scola.
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Old 01-22-12, 12:04 AM
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Obviously he has slowed down, but didn't he have a food poisoning issue in Orlando? Said he ate a bad salad?

If so, that would account for some of the bad play.
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  #13  
Old 01-22-12, 12:13 AM
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Move Tim to C like someone said, Move PF to Splitter or bring Tim off the bench after TIAGO! We have two others to worry about though after them two which is Bonner and Blair! I wish we atleast had a Dice this year to go along with Tim and Tiago, but we don't.
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  #14  
Old 01-22-12, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLTHETHRILL View Post
Duncan needs to move to center full time bottom line.
TD should play with Splitter bottom line. NO excuse why they should not be seeing more PT together. As long as Blair and Bonner are our #3 and #4 big men, this team will be happy just to make it to the second round. Needless to say a trade needs to happen cuz TD will continue playing less and Tiago will play more. Well need to start worrying about Tiago getting overplayed due to the lack of quality bugs that can defend night in and night out. The sooner we address the problem, the better chances we stand at #5 and maximizing what Timmy has left in the tabk
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  #15  
Old 01-22-12, 10:22 AM
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I think some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Is Tim Duncan the same Tim Duncan he was 8 years ago? No. Right now he is having to adjust him game to fall in line with his abilities. He is shooting/and making more jumpers now than he has in his entire career. He is still a presence on the court, defensively and offensively. Splitter gets a couple of good games under his belt and now he is some kind of GOD. I DON'T THINK SO. Timmy is a proven commodity......Tiago is not. I like what I am seeing from Tiago, but the question is......can he do it on a consistent basis against some of the top talents in the league for years to come? That is what Timmy did. I have not seen that out of Tiago yet, so why don't we wait until he has proved himself over the course of a season before we supplant a Hall Of Famer....OK?
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Hibbert, who worked out with Duncan in San Antonio during the lockout, said he has grown close to the perennial All-Star. On Friday, he texted Duncan and asked how he should guard him.

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Old 01-22-12, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark21horse View Post
I think some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Is Tim Duncan the same Tim Duncan he was 8 years ago? No. Right now he is having to adjust him game to fall in line with his abilities. He is shooting/and making more jumpers now than he has in his entire career. He is still a presence on the court, defensively and offensively. Splitter gets a couple of good games under his belt and now he is some kind of GOD. I DON'T THINK SO. Timmy is a proven commodity......Tiago is not. I like what I am seeing from Tiago, but the question is......can he do it on a consistent basis against some of the top talents in the league for years to come? That is what Timmy did. I have not seen that out of Tiago yet, so why don't we wait until he has proved himself over the course of a season before we supplant a Hall Of Famer....OK?
Agreed! He can still contribute and still have a good game. We haven't even played all NBA teams, so let's see how he does against the Lakers and whoever else we haven't played before replacing Tim with Tiago.
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  #17  
Old 01-22-12, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwe Blab View Post
First of all, this schedule is not good for Duncan. He's tired. So give him a break. He deserves it.

Second, Splitter had a great game today, but against bad interior defense. He didn't do any of that against Dalembert. And Scola is a joke on defense. I'm actually glad we have Splitter rather than Scola.
for the love of okra, don't forget his defensive game. our defense was loads better with him in there (didn't matter the big next to him). i'd like to see him start with Duncan. if Splitter keeps playing this well, we'd be tied with the best big man combo in the West.
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  #18  
Old 01-22-12, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark21horse View Post
I think some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Is Tim Duncan the same Tim Duncan he was 8 years ago? No. Right now he is having to adjust him game to fall in line with his abilities. He is shooting/and making more jumpers now than he has in his entire career. He is still a presence on the court, defensively and offensively. Splitter gets a couple of good games under his belt and now he is some kind of GOD. I DON'T THINK SO. Timmy is a proven commodity......Tiago is not. I like what I am seeing from Tiago, but the question is......can he do it on a consistent basis against some of the top talents in the league for years to come? That is what Timmy did. I have not seen that out of Tiago yet, so why don't we wait until he has proved himself over the course of a season before we supplant a Hall Of Famer....OK?
Thanks horse you saved me some typing.....

Play Blair and Splitter according to the bigs on the other team, there is not one size fits all.

Finally people are forgetting TD commands more attention on both off and D, he is still a big time player and deserves the start.
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  #19  
Old 01-22-12, 04:32 PM
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Yea the talk of benching Duncan is absurd, he needs to rest as others mention, he needs to be able to play with Tiago and make Dejuan the first big man call off the bench, pop will hopefully play whos having the hot night and hopefully this gives our bigs the best chance including the better height on the court with the starters
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  #20  
Old 01-22-12, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
for the love of okra, don't forget his defensive game. our defense was loads better with him in there (didn't matter the big next to him). i'd like to see him start with Duncan. if Splitter keeps playing this well, we'd be tied with the best big man combo in the West.
How could our defense be much better with Tim in there, and at the same time Tim consistently have a negative +/-. -15, -5, +5, -3 in the last 4 games means that the team isn't playing good defense with him on the floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kager View Post
Thanks horse you saved me some typing.....

Play Blair and Splitter according to the bigs on the other team, there is not one size fits all.

Finally people are forgetting TD commands more attention on both off and D, he is still a big time player and deserves the start.
TD isn't commanding anything more than the guy guarding him on offense and defense. He isn't pulling double teams anymore, so your analysis is dead wrong.

I can't remember the last time he was double teamed.
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  #21  
Old 01-22-12, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by choppsboy View Post
How could our defense be much better with Tim in there, and at the same time Tim consistently have a negative +/-. -15, -5, +5, -3 in the last 4 games means that the team isn't playing good defense with him on the floor.
i was talking about a Splitter/Duncan combo over a Splitter/(insert any current Spurs big other than Duncan). Duncan still does well with Splitter because he's not forced to be the inside defensive presence, unlike with the other 2.
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Old 01-22-12, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
i was talking about a Splitter/Duncan combo over a Splitter/(insert any current Spurs big other than Duncan). Duncan still does well with Splitter because he's not forced to be the inside defensive presence, unlike with the other 2.
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Old 01-22-12, 05:26 PM
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I can't remember either Chopps so you could be right that he isn't getting the double teams but he is still getting 4 more points per contest in 6 mins more per game so they are on par if not TD just in front, and he will get calls and has the experience that Splitter doesn't so until Splitter is significantly ahead I would start TD.
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  #24  
Old 01-22-12, 05:30 PM
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btw Duncan's getting mostly his points on mid range jump shots, not on 4 Downs. not saying that's not important, but that's Duncan getting used to his role and minimizing 4 Down (hopefully doing away with it all together)
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Old 01-22-12, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_TheGenius View Post
btw Duncan's getting mostly his points on mid range jump shots, not on 4 Downs. not saying that's not important, but that's Duncan getting used to his role and minimizing 4 Down (hopefully doing away with it all together)
I think it is important to some of the arguments here that Duncan should start with Splitter.

I could go for that if Splitter was more of the focus of the offense than Duncan. Splitter should Play C and Duncan PF in this scenario. Duncan can have that open 18' shot when they double down on Splitter. It seems to me that Splitter draws more doubles than Duncan right now.
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Old 01-22-12, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
I could go for that if Splitter was more of the focus of the offense than Duncan. Splitter should Play C and Duncan PF in this scenario. Duncan can have that open 18' shot when they double down on Splitter. It seems to me that Splitter draws more doubles than Duncan right now.
only if we bring Thomas off the bench and ahead of Bonner or Blair...
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Old 01-25-12, 07:27 PM
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It is important to remember that Duncan is playing the opposition's starters while, theoretically, Splitter is playing the second unit. I think Popovich knows best on how to get the most out of his players.

No doubt, a Splitter and Duncan are the Spurs' best big men now. But, if Splitter were to start, he would have to start with Bonner to stretch. That would leave Duncan to anchor a second unit, pick-and-rolling with whoever is the second unit play-maker. That would also mean DBlair is coming off the bench. And, if last season is a fair barometer, Blair goes to a dark place when he doesn't start. That place is filled with ice cream.

If the Spurs had a 3rd legitimate big man (more well rounded than what Bonner brings), then it could be feasible to start the Twin Towers Redux. That's not an option right now.
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  #28  
Old 01-25-12, 10:27 PM
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Hi Guys. I am happy to have some free time to actually reply to some postings. I just wanted to point out just like the previous post that +/- stats are an indicator but not necessarily a good one because it reveals the change in score while a player is in the game, however, bench players play against other second teames, while starters are playing other first teams. The good of this is that our second team is playing way above the benches of their opponents. The bad is that our starting team is not always playing better than the other teams starting units although this is a game to game situation where the truncated season is having an effect. Wait till Manu get backs... And Duncan thankfully hasn't been needed all that much, but we sure enjoy his basket and all around game vs. the hornets...
Still, take a look at who the Spurs have beaten: grizzlies, clippers, warrior and mavs on a home back to back, nuggets, rockets, blazers, suns, magic, hornets, and hawks... Not too shabby...
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